Dr. Scott Tagawa and Dr. Oscar Brouwer come on the ASCO Guidelines podcast to discuss the new EAU-ASCO Collaborative Guidelines on Penile Cancer. These comprehensive guidelines cover pathological assessment of tumour specimens, diagnosis and staging, local treatment of penile carcinoma, radical inguinal lymph node dissection, prophylactic pelvic lymph node dissection, surgical management, neoadjuvant and adjuvant chemotherapy, radiotherapy, systemic and palliative therapies for advanced penile cancer, follow-up, and quality of life. They highlight key recommendations, and describe the importance of a patient-focused and multidisciplinary approach to management of penile cancer. Find more information about the guidelines at www.asco.org/genitourinary-cancer-guidelines The full text of the guideline is available at https://uroweb.org/guidelines/penile-cancer Conflict of interest disclosures: Guideline Working Group Dr. Scott Tagawa Dr. Oscar Brouwer TRANSCRIPT Brittany Harvey: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast, one of ASCO's podcasts delivering timely information to keep you up to date on the latest changes, challenges, and advances in oncology. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts. My name is Brittany Harvey, and today I'm interviewing Dr. Oscar Brouwer from the Netherlands Cancer Institute in Amsterdam, and Dr. Scott Tagawa from Weill Cornell Medical College in New York, co-chairs on the 'ASCO-EAU Collaborative Guidelines on Penile Cancer'. Thank you for being here, Dr. Brouwer and Dr. Tagawa. Dr. Scott Tagawa: Thanks very much. Dr. Oscar Brouwer: Yeah, thanks for having us. Brittany Harvey: Before we discuss this guideline, I'd just like to note that the guideline was led by the European Association of Urology, and the conflict of interest disclosures of the Guideline Working Group are publicly accessible through the European Association of Urology website linked in the show notes. Additionally, Dr. Brouwer's and Dr. Tagawa's individual disclosures are provided in the show notes of this episode. So, to jump into the content of this guideline, first, Dr. Tagawa, could you give us a general overview of the purpose and the scope of this collaborative EAU-ASCO Guideline? Dr. Scott Tagawa: So, I think the key word there is collaborative. This was truly a collaborative effort, and I say that in a number of ways. So, the two key organizations, the EAU and ASCO, came together with a Memorandum of Understanding and got together from the very beginning in terms of developing the scope and then throughout the methodology for the guidelines. And then, on a practical basis, I'd say even more importantly, a collaboration between multiple physicians of different disciplines from across the world. Whether we're talking about surgeons, radiation oncologists, medical oncologists, pathologists, we had panel members from all over the world as well as patient representatives from all over the world. And patient representatives really played a key role in the development of this guideline. By way of background, penile cancer in most places is considered a rare disease. For example, in the United States, we expect around 2000 cases per year. In the genitourinary world, the next rare cancer is going to be testis cancer, which is going to be four or five times higher than that per year and nowhere near prostate cancer, for instance. So, just kind of put that into perspective. But, importantly, a disease that is a worldwide issue in a number of different ways. That includes the kind of general stigma of being diagnosed with that, the physical and emotional consequences of the diagnosis, as well as treatment. And then, because in part of its rarity, the lack of prospective randomized trials to really guide clinicians and that, I would say, that total package underscores the importance of coming together with a guideline. Brittany Harvey: Great. Thank you for providing that background and perspective. So then, next, Dr. Brouwer, I'd like to review the key recommendations of this comprehensive guideline. Starting with what are the key recommendations regarding diagnosis and staging of penile cancer? Dr. Oscar Brouwer: First of all, I guess just to underline what my colleague, Dr. Tagawa, just said, it's a worldwide guideline, international, multi-continental. I think that's quite a special thing. But it also poses a few challenges, of course, because cultural differences and treatments may differ, opinions as well, distances that patients have to travel, lots of factors there, and also economy, et cetera, et cetera. So, to find a consensus there has been one of the challenges. I think we did a good job there to really make it accessible to all patients and physicians, of course, in the world. When talking about diagnosis, I think comparing our new guidelines to old guidelines really emphasizes the new 2022 WHO classification in which distinction between HPV-positive and HPV-negative disease is highlighted. We increasingly have some knowledge on the difference between the HPV-related and the non-HPV-related penile cancers. I'd say it's about 50-50, the distinction. So, 50% is HPV-related, and 50% not HPV-related. But what we know from other cancers, for instance, that HPV-positive disease is associated with better prognosis than HPV-negative. This distinction is not so clear in penile cancer yet. And one of the reasons is just the lack of data, a lack of perspective for large studies, so to say. So, what we're really highlighting and underlining in the new guideline is the importance of doing HPV testing in all patients that have penile cancer, and that tissue is taken from. We chose to go for the cheapest and easiest but reliable methods to do so. So, immunohistochemistry of p16, to be exact. This is one of the important, I think, recommendations, or maybe even more than a recommendation; obligations we set to all physicians treating penile cancer. So, just in terms of diagnosis and in terms of staging, we all know that lymph node status is the most important factor determining survival. So, finding those lymph nodes, if they are involved with cancer, yes or no. So, if they are metastatic, yes or no, is of crucial importance. This has always been the case, but I think it cannot be emphasized enough. And in this new guideline, we again emphasize the importance of doing surgical lymph node staging in high-risk patients. And what's a little bit new is that we are more or less going to the direction of preferring central node biopsy as the best method to do so. You could also, of course, remove all the lymph nodes, what we call radical lymph node dissection. It's still possible inside our new recommendations, depending on availability of all the techniques or availability of expert centers in proximity. But I think we can all see that in terms of complication rates, central node biopsy is probably superior. So this is also one of the new things in terms of staging. Brittany Harvey: Absolutely. Thank you for those highlights of diagnosis and staging in the guideline. So, following those recommendations, Dr. Tagawa, and I know this is a large section, but what does the expert panel recommend for disease management of penile cancer? Dr. Scott Tagawa: A single-sentence summary would say a multi-disciplinary approach in an expert center when possible. Re-emphasizing one of the statements that Dr. Brouwer made about sentinel lymph nodes; it appears to be better, but clearly is not available everywhere. And if I just make this US-centric for a minute, just within this country, where there are centers that are able to do it and have that expertise, there are centers that are not so far away that may not be able to do that. So regional differences within a single country that's what happens. So, anyway, multi-disciplinary input, I think, is important for many diseases, including penile cancer. A little bit of a segue, but one part of this guideline of which most of us are proud is that, front and center really, the introductory paragraph of the guidelines, where it really states that we need to really have this disease and the management patient-focused and that includes addressing some of the emotional aspects of the disease. Those are included in the management. But to kind of go through very quickly on a very high level, in the early stages management is mostly in the hands of the urologist. But sometimes there's dermatologists and others, so when there is superficial disease, we talk about superficial therapy and I'm just going to leave it at that, many of them don't have level 1 evidence, but there is, for instance, topical chemotherapy that can be helpful. And then, as the disease becomes more invasive, so does the treatment. So there's sections on organ or penile sparing that is a reasonable option that needs to be done in a good multi-disciplinary system. That is a good and sometimes a preferred option when there is adequate staging for earlier stage disease. And then the more invasive the disease becomes is when the management needs to become more multi-disciplinary both in terms of workup as well as treatment. Where there is a consideration for, in certain situations, particularly in very locally advanced where it becomes unresectable at least in some eyes, where we say, "Okay, we're actually going to recommend starting off with chemotherapy," the intent is for surgery with an alternative of chemotherapy and radiation. And currently, there are no head-to-head trials, but those are both reasonable approaches for the most locally advanced disease setting. Taking a step back, if someone starts off with a little bit less locally advanced, so we'd say the alias, gross resectable, we would at least discuss in a multi-disciplinary setting what are the risk benefits of then post-operative therapy, whether that is radiation or chemotherapy,