Sleeping Barber - A Marketing Podcast

Sleeping Barber
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Ready to rethink business strategy and supercharge your marketing game? Join hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros as they break down big questions at the crossroads of strategy, marketing effectiveness, and creative impact. From real-world case studies to hot-off-the-press business news, each episode dives deep into how modern companies navigate complexity. Plus, interviews with global thought leaders bring you fresh insights and actionable strategies to drive growth and build unforgettable customer experiences. This is your backstage pass to smarter thinking and better business results.

  1. SBP 153: Dull Media Smells Like Burning Money. With Adam Morgan and Karen Nelson-Field

    1D AGO

    SBP 153: Dull Media Smells Like Burning Money. With Adam Morgan and Karen Nelson-Field

    In this episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast, Marc and Vassilis sit down with Adam Morgan (Eat Big Fish) and Dr. Karen Nelson-Field (Amplified Intelligence) to talk about one of marketing’s most overlooked money pits — dull media. You’ve heard of dull ads — but what about dull media? From perfume that smells like burning money to attention metrics that flip our measurement logic upside down, this conversation exposes how marketers might be wasting more budget on where they show up than what they show. Together, they unpack: Why the real cost of dullness might live in your media plan, not your creative.The massive gap between viewable and actually seen impressions.How cheap CPMs can quietly destroy ROI.Why challenger brands suffer most when attention is lost.And why the smartest marketers start from one brutal truth: nobody cares — so make them. It’s a lively, insightful, and often hilarious conversation that will make you rethink everything from your media mix to your measurement frameworks. Key Takeaways Dull media wastes more money than dull creative.Attention metrics are becoming the new standard.“Viewable” ≠ “Seen.” Stop confusing impressions with impact.The cheapest media often delivers the lowest ROI — a false economy.Challenger brands face double jeopardy when cutting corners on attention.Budget pressure is no excuse for bad planning.Attention isn’t a metric — it’s a design principle.Marketers must challenge models built on impression volume.Setting the bar higher is the only way to make media work harder.Removing waste and reinvesting in effective attention drives better results. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction to Dull Media and Marketing Waste 03:06 - The Cost of Dull Media vs. Dull Creative 06:00 - The Impact of Media Delivery Mechanisms 08:55 - The Concept of Seen vs. Unseen in Advertising 12:02 - Innovative Approaches to Highlighting Media Waste 15:01 - Attention Metrics and Their Importance 18:06 - The Challenge of Changing Industry Standards 20:53 - The Role of Budget Pressures in Media Choices 26:48 - Challenging Assumptions in Media Engagement 30:34 - The Cost of Dull Media 34:06 - The Double Jeopardy for Challenger Brands 38:46 - Understanding Attention as a Design Principle 42:30 - Setting the Bar Higher for Media Effectiveness Supporting Links: The Extraordinary Cost of Dull - System1 Group The Cost of Dull Media | Dr Karen Nelson-Field (amplified.co) Le Cout Dennui - The 198bn Cost Of Dull Media

    51 min
  2. SBP 152: The Barber's Brief - Love Over Clicks?

    6D AGO

    SBP 152: The Barber's Brief - Love Over Clicks?

    In this episode, Vassilis and Marc explore things that caught their attention over the last couple of weeks. Key stories they highlight include: Ehrenberg-Bass Is Probably Right. Until It Isn’t. A piece by G Douglas Why marketing’s old rules still work in a new world, by Mark Pritchard 7 Focus Areas as AI Transforms Search and the Customer Journey in 2026Love Over Clicks, by Paul Worthington For the marketing moment, Vassilis goes into his experience at the Millennium Alliance, CMO Forum, while concluding with the 'Ad of the week' where Marc details Skip the Dishes latest advertising campaign, highlighting its innovative approach to storytelling and brand positioning. Enjoy the show! Takeaways Ehrenberg-Bass principles are evidence-based but should not be dogma.Creativity is essential in marketing, even in established categories.Mark Pritchard emphasizes timeless marketing fundamentals.AI is reshaping customer journeys and search behaviours.Brand love can lead to economic durability.Skip the Dishes campaign cleverly uses storytelling to eliminate conflict.Marketers must adapt to AI's role in their processes.Emotional surplus can create pricing power for brands.Consistency in brand messaging is crucial across channels.The future of marketing involves collaboration with AI. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction to Marketing Insights 02:43 - Ehrenberg-Bass Institute and Marketing Principles 05:33 - The Importance of Creativity in Marketing 08:19 - Timeless Marketing Lessons from Mark Pritchard 11:05 - AI's Impact on Search and Customer Journey 16:21 - Navigating the New AI Landscape 22:00 - The Concept of Brand Love and Emotional Surplus 27:26 - Marketing Moment: CMO Forum Insights 33:08 - Ad of the Week: Skip the Dishes Campaign

    39 min
  3. SBP 151: Live From 'The Gathering' 2025

    OCT 28

    SBP 151: Live From 'The Gathering' 2025

    Recorded live in Banff at The Gathering 2025, this special on-location episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast brings together three conversations and a recap from hosts Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley. The episode explores how belonging, creativity, and technology are shaping the next chapter of marketing — from AI and the creator economy to the deeper values that connect brands and people. Ryan Gill, co-founder of The Gathering and Cult, shares the philosophy behind the event’s enduring success and what it takes to preserve its soul as it grows. His perspective on leadership, belonging, and the responsibility of “being good guests” in Banff underscores a broader lesson for marketers — scale only matters if it deepens connection. Vanessa Hope Schneider, Head of Marketing at Descript, reframes AI not as a threat but as a creative ally. She challenges marketers to take an “AI vacation” — dedicating uninterrupted time to learn and experiment — and reminds us that curiosity, not fear, should guide adoption. Her examples of AI co-creation, from “vibe-coded” design tools to custom GPTs for audience personas, reveal how AI can amplify human creativity rather than replace it. Caroline Murphy, CMO of Meta4 Interactive, takes us inside the evolving world of in-game brand experiences. She describes how brands can authentically show up inside ecosystems like Fortnite and Roblox by co-creating with gamers, designing “playable stories” that enhance — not interrupt — gameplay. It’s a new kind of “digital physical availability,” meeting audiences where they already live, play, and connect. Together, these conversations capture the evolving state of marketing: human connection grounded in creativity, powered by technology, and measured by meaning — not just metrics. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to The Gathering 2025 in Banff, Alberta02:10 – Reflections on connection, belonging, and “no badge attacks”05:35 – The state of marketing effectiveness & long-term partnerships09:25 – Ryan Gill on scaling connection without losing soul16:40 – Leadership, values & “unreasonable hospitality”22:50 – Vanessa Hope Schneider on AI, creativity & taking an “AI vacation”31:00 – Coexisting with AI — where humans add the magic36:40 – Carolyn Murphy on the creator economy & in-game brand storytelling44:10 – How brands show up authentically in Roblox & Fortnite51:15 – Measurement, co-creation, and the next era of engagement

    49 min
  4. SBP 150: The 8 Fundamentals of Effective Marketing

    OCT 21

    SBP 150: The 8 Fundamentals of Effective Marketing

    There's a lot of marketing effectiveness research out there. Binet and Field. Byron Sharp. Jenni Romaniuk. The Ehrenberg-Bass Institute. Karen Nelson-Field. Peter Field. System1. The Effies and the IPA databank. If you're trying to absorb all of this while doing your actual job, it's overwhelming. So we're making it simple: Eight fundamentals. These aren't tactics or channels. They're the underlying truths that emerge when you look at decades of research across thousands of brands, dozens of categories, and 50+ countries. In this episode, V and Marc break down: Strong Force vs. Weak Force - Why only 5% of buyers are ready to purchase right now, and why you need to build memory with the other 95%Growth Comes From Reach, Not Loyalty - Why big brands aren't more loved, they're just more boughtEasy to Mind, Easy to Find - Mental and physical availability: being thought of and being findableBothism: Balance Short & Long - Why you need both brand building (60%) and sales activation (40%)Creativity & Emotion Multiply Effectiveness - Why emotional campaigns are 11x more effective than rational onesFame & Consistency Build Memory - Why you should stop rebranding and commit to distinctive assets for decadesMaking Promises & Building Trust - Why your entire organization needs to deliver on what marketing promisesInvestment Drives Return - Why share of voice predicts share of market The pattern across all eight? They require playing a longer game than most marketers are willing to play. Time and consistency win. These are the laws of gravity for marketing—you can ignore them, but they're still operating. Whether you're in B2B or consumer, whether you're a CMO or running a small marketing team, these fundamentals apply. The question isn't "Do these apply to my business?" It's "How do I apply these to my specific context?" Chapters 00:00 - Introduction & Overview "We took 39 sources... synthesized it all into eight fundamental principles" 01:04 - Episode Opening V and Marc introduce the episode and explain what fundamentals mean 03:36 - List of 8 Fundamentals Quick overview of all eight principles 04:36 - Fundamental #1: Strong Force vs. Weak Force How advertising actually works - the 5/95 rule 11:46 - Fundamental #2: Growth Comes From Reach, Not Loyalty Why penetration beats retention 19:06 - Fundamental #3: Easy to Mind, Easy to Find Mental and physical availability 27:45 - Fundamental #4: Bothism - Balance Short & Long The 60/40 split and why you need both 38:03 - Fundamental #5: Creativity & Emotion Multiply Effectiveness Why emotional campaigns are 11x more effective 46:31 - Fundamental #6: Fame & Consistency Build Memory Distinctive assets and the danger of rebranding 54:14 - Fundamental #7: Making Promises & Building Trust Why your whole organization owns the brand promise 01:00:11 - Fundamental #8: Investment Drives Return Share of voice predicts share of market 01:08:22 - Synthesis & Wrap-Up The pattern across all 8: Time and...

    1h 13m
  5. SBP 149: The Barber's Brief - Is Lululemon in a Nosedive?

    OCT 16

    SBP 149: The Barber's Brief - Is Lululemon in a Nosedive?

    In this week’s Barber’s Brief, Marc and Vassilis dive into stories that had the marketing world buzzing — from Lululemon’s founder publicly calling out the brand’s leadership to Google breaking SEO dashboards everywhere after removing the num=100 parameter. They explore new research proving creators are better brand builders than sales drivers, and then welcome Dr. Nicole Hartnett from the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute to unpack her team’s latest findings on how marketers misjudge brand strength compared to consumers. They wrap up with the Ad of the Week — Dove’s “Change the Compliment,” a heartfelt campaign challenging how we praise young girls. It’s insightful, funny, and filled with marketing lessons that stick. Key Takeaways Lululemon’s identity crisis: Founder Chip Wilson’s fiery WSJ ad claims the brand lost its creative edge chasing quarterly profits — a reminder of what happens when finance outweighs product and brand. Link: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1397187/000119312525234754/ck0000000000-ex99_4.pdf Google’s “num=100” chaos: 77% of sites saw keyword visibility drop, exposing years of phantom SEO data. Your reports might look worse… but they’re actually more accurate. Link: https://searchengineland.com/google-search-rank-and-position-tracking-is-a-mess-right-now-461984 We’ve been using creators wrong: Groundbreaking research proves creators build brand love, not just clicks — performing on par with TV in the short term, and even better long-term. Link: https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2025/10/08/ground-breaking-research-proves-we-ve-been-using-creators-wrong-all-time Marketing Moment – Brand misjudgment: Dr. Nicole Hartnett reveals marketers consistently overestimate fame and underestimate the uniqueness of their assets — the “false consensus effect” in action. Link: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41262-025-00395-y Special Guest: Dr. Nichole Hartnet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-hartnett/ Ad of the Week – Dove’s “Change the Compliment”: A beautifully simple message — stop telling girls they’re pretty, and start telling them they’re powerful, kind, and creative. Link: https://www.thedrum.com/news/2025/10/10/dove-urges-people-change-how-girls-are-complimented Timestamps: 00:00 – Cold open & Thanksgiving banter 02:00 – Lululemon in a Nosedive: Chip Wilson’s WSJ ad 10:00 – Google’s “num=100” parameter and the SEO data meltdown 18:00 – New IPA research: We’ve been using creators wrong 26:00 – Marketing Moment: Dr. Nicole Hartnett on brand misjudgment 46:00 – Ad of the Week: Dove’s “Change the Compliment” 57:00 – What’s next on The Sleeping Barber Podcast Follow Our Updates⁠⁠ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ https://www.sleepingbarber.ca Get in touch with our hosts: Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

    36 min
  6. SBP 148: The PostPod - Ad Fraud: The Real Cost.

    OCT 8

    SBP 148: The PostPod - Ad Fraud: The Real Cost.

    Join Marc and Vassilis as they reflect on their conversation with Dr. Augustine Fou, of FouAnalytics. They delve into the complexities of digital marketing, focusing on ad fraud, data integrity, and the challenges marketers face in a rapidly evolving landscape. They also discuss the importance of understanding the incentives behind ad fraud, the necessity of educating leadership on marketing metrics, and the philosophical underpinnings of advertising. They even cover some practical tips for marketers to navigate these challenges effectively. Takeaways Ad fraud is often a result of misaligned incentives within organizations.Marketers must take responsibility for understanding and addressing ad fraud.Data integrity is crucial; not all data is trustworthy.The audience expansion networks are a significant source of ad fraud.Marketers need to educate their leadership on the nuances of digital marketing metrics.Decision-making in marketing can be influenced by the fear of indecision.Practical tips, like turning off audience expansion networks, can mitigate fraud.Understanding the broader context of advertising is essential for effective marketing.The $300 billion ad fraud industry presents both challenges and opportunities for marketers.Speed and agility in decision-making are critical in the digital marketing landscape. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Initial Thoughts 01:45 Ad Fraud and Incentivization Issues 05:12 The Complexity of Reporting and Data Integrity 09:00 Understanding the $300 Billion Fraud Industry 12:39 The Goalie Paradox and Decision Making in Marketing 16:25 Practical Tips for Marketers 20:15 The Philosophy of Advertising and External Factors

    20 min
  7. SBP 147: Ad Fraud - The Real Cost. With Dr. Augustine Fou.

    OCT 7

    SBP 147: Ad Fraud - The Real Cost. With Dr. Augustine Fou.

    Episode Summary Digital advertising promised perfect accountability—laser-sharp targeting, flawless attribution, and measurable results down to the last click. But what if the data has been lying to us all along? Dr. Augustine Fou, former Chief Digital Officer and independent ad fraud researcher, reveals why the "1% fraud rate" you've been hearing for a decade is dangerously wrong. In this eye-opening conversation, he exposes the systemic incentives that allow ad fraud to thrive, costing advertisers billions while enriching middlemen, platforms, and fraudsters. You'll discover how a major hotel chain found their "incredible" ROAS completely evaporated when they turned off campaigns for one week. Why "audience expansion networks" are actually "fraudience networks" filled with bots. And how placement reports from your DSP are systematically fabricated because fraudulent sites lie about their domains in bid requests. Dr. Fou doesn't just diagnose the problem—he provides concrete, actionable solutions. Learn the one campaign setting that eliminates 90% of fraud instantly, why paying higher CPMs actually saves you money, and how to measure what actually matters: Human CPM (HCPM), not just impressions. This isn't about pointing fingers. It's about upgrading your analytics so you can finally see what's really happening with your ad spend—and take back control. Key Takeaways The 1% Lie: Legacy verification vendors have reported ~1% invalid traffic for 10 years straight—not because fraud is low, but because that's all they can detectThe Attribution Illusion: View-through conversions and ROAS reports massively over-attribute sales that would have happened anywayEveryone Benefits But You: Ad exchanges, agencies under budget pressure, verification vendors, and even marketers protecting their jobs all profit from the status quoFraudience Networks: Turning off audience expansion on Facebook, Google, TikTok, and other platforms immediately eliminates 90% of fraudThe CPM Trap: Lower CPMs aren't "cost efficiency"—you're just buying 10x more impressions where only 10% reach humans, making your effective Human CPM 10x higherPlacement Report Fiction: Sites lie about their domain in bid requests, so your blocklists don't work and your reports show clean inventory that doesn't existThe Turn-Off Test: Run holdout experiments—turn off campaigns in one state or for one week and measure if sales velocity actually changes Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction: The Promise vs. Reality of Digital Advertising 02:58 - Dr. Fou's Journey: From MIT Chemistry to Ad Fraud Research 05:54 - Why Everyone Dismissed the Warnings (Including Marc) 09:12 - There's No "Typical" Fraud Rate: From 1% to 100% Depending on What You Buy 11:58 - The Attribution Problem: Why Your ROAS Reports Are Fiction 14:56 - The Incentive Structure: Why Everyone Profits From Fraud Except Advertisers 17:58 - When Does This Become a Shareholder Problem? 26:59 - Red vs. Blue: Why You Must Measure Both Bots AND Humans 29:27 - The CPM Misconception: Price vs. Cost Efficiency 32:54 - Fraudience Networks: Turn Them Off and Save 90% Immediately 36:04 - How Bots Game Retargeting and Audience Segments 40:04 - Best Practices: Inclusion Lists, Direct Buying, and Turning Off Audience Networks 42:15 - The Placement Report Scam: Why Your Blocklists Don't Work 47:00 - The Footfall Fraud: How Ad Tech Gamed In-Store Attribution 52:01 - Moving Away From Black Box Algorithms 56:04 - Reframing the Conversation: From "Fraud" to "Better Analytics" Guest Bio Dr. Augustine Fou is a former Chief Digital Officer, independent ad fraud researcher, and creator of FouAnalytics—an analytics platform that measures both bot traffic (red) and human traffic (blue) to give advertisers unprecedented...

    59 min
  8. SBP 146: The Barber's Brief - When A Discount Becomes A Death Spiral

    OCT 2

    SBP 146: The Barber's Brief - When A Discount Becomes A Death Spiral

    In this episode, Marc and Vassilis discuss news that caught their attention over the last couple of weeks , including the dangers of discounting, Nike's strategic marketing efforts, the significance of attention in advertising, Meta's new ad-free subscription model, insights on Gen AI, and Anthropic's brand campaign for Claude. They emphasize the importance of relevance and identity in marketing strategies, as well as the evolving landscape of advertising in the digital age. Enjoy the show! Follow Our Updates⁠⁠ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ https://www.sleepingbarber.ca Get in touch with our hosts: Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/ Takeaways Discounting can lead to a death spiral for profits.Nike is increasing its marketing budget ahead of major events.High attention media yields better advertising results.Meta's ad-free subscription model tests consumer willingness to pay.The Gen AI race is unfolding slowly, requiring strong branding.Attention is a proxy for advertising effectiveness.Relevance in advertising is crucial for consumer engagement.Brands must focus on identity and values to differentiate.The advertising landscape is shifting towards privacy and consent.Understanding customer needs is essential for effective marketing. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction and Overview 00:58 - The Perils of Discounting in Marketing 05:27 - Nike's Strategic Marketing Moves 09:58 - The Importance of Attention in Advertising 14:37 - Meta's Ad-Free Subscription Model 19:10 - Insights on Gen AI Marketing 23:48 - Anthropic's Brand Campaign for Claude Ad of the week: Anthropic just dropped its first major paid brand push for Claude, the AI model it develops. The campaign — titled “Keep Thinking” — positions Claude not as a gimmicky tool but as a thinking partner for serious problem solvers. https://youtu.be/FDNkDBNR7AM

    30 min
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Ready to rethink business strategy and supercharge your marketing game? Join hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros as they break down big questions at the crossroads of strategy, marketing effectiveness, and creative impact. From real-world case studies to hot-off-the-press business news, each episode dives deep into how modern companies navigate complexity. Plus, interviews with global thought leaders bring you fresh insights and actionable strategies to drive growth and build unforgettable customer experiences. This is your backstage pass to smarter thinking and better business results.

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