Work For Humans

Dart Lindsley
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Too often business leaders are forced to choose between the needs of their company and the needs of their employees. It’s a lose/lose scenario leaving managers burned out and workers seeking other opportunities. At Work for Humans, we believe work can be designed differently. When you design work like products people love, your company wins. Work becomes irresistible, employees passionately buy into their roles every day, and your company takes measurable strides towards your vision.

  1. 4 days ago

    7 Rules for Gaining Power and Influence at Work | Jeffrey Pfeffer, Revisited

    Jeffrey Pfeffer has spent decades showing that people-first companies outperform, and just as long watching that evidence lose to habit. His answer is blunt: whether you're cautious about power or thirsty for it, there's no denying its role in the workplace, and ideas without power are just ideas. In this revisited episode, Dart and Jeff explore the purpose of power, the knowing-doing gap, and how to build profits by putting people first. Jeffrey Pfeffer is the Thomas D. Dee II Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he has taught since 1979. He is the author of several books, including The Human Equation, Dying for a Paycheck, and 7 Rules of Power. In this episode, Dart and Jeff discuss: - Why most of us are ambivalent about power - Why a big title doesn't make you powerful - Why ideas alone don't change anything - The seven rules, and which one matters most - Why we never pick the leaders we say we want - Why evidence keeps losing to habit - Getting ideas past people who can ignore you - Why HR keeps losing the power game - Can you have power and put people first? - And other topics… Jeffrey Pfeffer is the Thomas D. Dee II Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he has taught since 1979. He previously taught at the University of Illinois and the University of California, Berkeley, and has been a visiting professor at Harvard Business School, London Business School, Singapore Management University, and IESE. He is the author or co-author of several books, including The Human Equation, The Knowing-Doing Gap, Leadership BS, Dying for a Paycheck, and 7 Rules of Power. His work has been cited more than 200,000 times. He hosts the Pfeffer on Power podcast and has taught a MasterClass since 2025. Resources Mentioned: Jeff's Books, 7 Rules of Power: https://www.amazon.com/7-Rules-Power-Pfeffer-Jeffrey/dp/1800751281 The Human Equation: Building Profits by Putting People First: https://www.amazon.com/Human-Equation-Building-Profits-Putting/dp/0875848419 Dying for a Paycheck: How Modern Management Harms Employee Health and Company Performance, and What We Can Do About It: https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Paycheck-Management-Employee-Performance/dp/0062800922 Leadership BS: Fixing Workplaces and Careers One Truth at a Time: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-BS-Fixing-Workplaces-Careers/dp/0062383167 The Knowing-Doing Gap: How Smart Companies Turn Knowledge into Action (with Robert Sutton): https://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Doing-Gap-Companies-Knowledge-Action/dp/B00DEK8PAA Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex among Apes, by Frans de Waal: https://www.amazon.com/Chimpanzee-Politics-Power-among-Apes/dp/0801886562 Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, by Robert B. Cialdini: https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/006124189X Connect with Jeff: Website: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/ Pfeffer on Power podcast: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/pfeffer-on-power/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-pfeffer-57a01b6 X: https://x.com/JeffreyPfeffer Stanford GSB: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/jeffrey-pfeffer Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  2. 8 Sept

    Positive Discipline at Work: Why People Do Better When They Feel Better | Alanna Beebe

    Parents come to Alanna Beebe's classes hoping to change their kid. But by the second week, most of them realize the person who needs to change is them. Soon after, they notice the same tools working on their boss, colleagues, and staff. None of this surprises Alanna though. Her work rests on Alfred Adler's idea that every human is striving for belonging and significance, and that misbehavior, in a child or an adult, is a discouraged attempt to get there. In this episode, Dart and Alanna explore where agency comes from, why encouragement is not the same as praise, and what parenting can teach us about designing better workplaces. Alanna Beebe is the founder and Managing Director of Sproutable, which helps parents and teachers grow remarkable kids through Positive Discipline. In this episode, Dart and Alanna discuss: - Why discipline was never meant to be punishment - What Adler believed that Freud didn't - What a misbehaving kid is really asking for - Why fixing your kids means changing yourself - Kind and firm at the same time - Where agency comes from, and who takes it away - Why companies extract instead of grow - What shared power looks like in practice - Why money doesn't build motivation - Why encouragement beats praise - And other topics… Alanna Beebe is the founder and Managing Director of Sproutable, a Seattle-based education company that has helped parents, teachers, and caregivers raise socially and emotionally skilled kids since 2016 through coaching, classes, and video content grounded in Positive Discipline and Adlerian psychology. In 2025, she founded Audacious Leadership, offering executive, life, and co-parenting coaching. She is a certified Positive Discipline Educator, Empowering People in the Workplace Educator, and Co-Active Practitioner. Before Sproutable, she spent more than 15 years in public health and early learning communications. Resources Mentioned: Positive Discipline, by Jane Nelsen: https://www.amazon.com/Positive-Discipline-Jane-Nelsen/dp/0345348567 Trust Factor: The Science of Creating High-Performance Companies, by Paul J. Zak: https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Factor-Creating-High-Performance-Companies/dp/0814437664 Peter Liljedahl on Work for Humans: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/thinking-classrooms-how-to-design-environments-that/id1612743401?i=1000631582031 Connect with Alanna: Sproutable: https://www.besproutable.com Audacious Leadership: https://www.audacious-leadership.com  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanna-beebe-5027967 Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  3. 1 Sept

    How Companies Create Bad Performers | Elena Aylott, Revisited

    When Elena Aylott was asked to lead HR at Oriflame Cosmetics, she initially saw the function as administrative and feared becoming a “chief firing officer.” Instead, she saw an opportunity to rethink what the people function could be. In this revisited episode, Dart and Elena explore how to remove the friction that gets in the way of good work, create individualized experiences at scale, and build workplaces where people can develop their potential, form meaningful relationships, and feel a sense of belonging. Elena Aylott is the Founder & CEO of Aylott Group and the former VP of Global Communications and Employee Experience at Oriflame Cosmetics. During her time at Oriflame, she worked to transform the employee experience across more than 60 countries. In this episode, Dart and Elena discuss: - Why Elena didn’t want to lead HR - Making HR more human - Why companies create bad performers - Creating personal experiences at scale - The power of small moments - Building a team without HR professionals - How language shapes culture - The real meaning of personal branding - Building one community at work - Creating transformational experiences - And other topics… Elena Aylott is the Founder & CEO of Aylott Group and the former VP of Global Communications and Employee Experience at Oriflame Cosmetics. She spent 16 years at Oriflame, including seven years leading the company’s global people function. She is also a Business and Leadership Advisor to Wisory, a Certified Leadership Coach for the EuroAcademy Leadership Institute, and a member of the TEDxStockholm Speakers’ team. Resources mentioned: The Employee Experience Advantage, by Jacob Morgan: https://www.amazon.com/Employee-Experience-Advantage-Employees-Workspaces/dp/111932162X The Power of Moments, by Chip and Dan Heath: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Moments-Certain-Experiences-Extraordinary/dp/1501147765 The Experience Economy, by Joseph Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978 Mass Customization, by Joseph Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727 Connect with Elena: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaaylott/ Aylott Group: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aylottgroup/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  4. 25 Aug

    How Sabbaticals Can Change Your Career | DJ DiDonna

    DJ DiDonna had built the kind of career many people would be reluctant to walk away from. He cofounded a growing company, built a life around work, and had every reason to keep going. But eventually, he decided to step away and take an extended break, an experience that changed how he thought about work, identity, and what comes next. In this episode, Dart and DJ explore what happens when people step away from work long enough to see their lives from a different perspective. DJ DiDonna is a Senior Lecturer at Harvard Business School and the founder of The Sabbatical Project, where he researches the effects of extended time away from work. He is also the author of Big Time Off. In this episode, Dart and DJ discuss: - Why DJ left his “dream job” - What makes a sabbatical different from a vacation - Why six to eight weeks can change the experience - How time away can change your identity - The feeling of “being human again” - Why people rush back into the next job - How sabbaticals build organizational resilience - The risk of treating burnout as a medical problem - What companies gain when people step away - The three ways people use a sabbatical - How to make space for curiosity and exploration - And other topics… DJ DiDonna is a Senior Lecturer of Business Administration at Harvard Business School and the founder of The Sabbatical Project. Before entering academia, he cofounded EFL Global, a fintech company that developed alternative credit scoring for entrepreneurs in emerging markets. His research focuses on sabbaticals, entrepreneurship, and the ways extended time away from work can affect people and organizations. He is the author of Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One. Resources Mentioned: Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One, by DJ DiDonna The Sabbatical Project: https://thesabbaticalproject.org/ DJ DiDonna: http://djdidonna.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/djdidonna/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  5. 18 Aug

    What We Get Wrong About Work | Barry Schwartz, Revisited

    We’ve spent decades designing work around the idea that people need incentives to perform. But what happens when the systems designed to motivate people actually get in the way of motivation? Professor Barry Schwartz has spent decades studying what makes work meaningful, and his research challenges the idea that money and performance incentives are enough. In this revisited episode, Dart and Barry explore what people really want from work, why pay-for-performance can undermine motivation, and what organizations can do to create work where people have the autonomy and responsibility to do good work. In this episode, Dart and Barry discuss: - Why Barry wrote Why We Work? - How did we learn what people want from work? - Lack of autonomy as a cost of employment - How has Why We Work been received? - How to protect against bias? - Practicing autonomy with restraint - The dangers of neglect in the workforce - And other topics… Barry Schwartz is an emeritus professor of psychology at Swarthmore College. He is the author of Why We Work, Practical Wisdom with Kenneth Sharpe, and The Paradox of Choice, as well as books on psychology, learning, and human behavior. His writing has appeared in The New York Times, Harvard Business Review, The Guardian, Scientific American, and other publications. Resources mentioned: Barry Schwartz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Schwartz_(psychologist) Why We Work by Barry Schwartz: https://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN9781476784861 Practical Wisdom by Barry Schwartz: https://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN9781594487835 The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz: https://www.amazon.com/Paradox-Choice-Why-More-Less/dp/149151423X Barry’s TedTalks: https://www.ted.com/speakers/barry_schwartz Jeffrey Pfeffer: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/ The Human Equation by Jeffrey Pfeffer: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0875848419 Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  6. 11 Aug

    When Career Success Feels Unfulfilling | Megan Hellerer

    Megan Hellerer had done everything she was supposed to do. She went to Stanford, graduated with a 3.9, and dutifully climbed the ladder at Google. But the life that looked great on paper felt terrible inside. A panic attack on the floor of a public restroom forced her to confront a bigger question: what if the problem wasn't choosing the wrong destination, but the idea that we need a destination at all? In this episode, Dart and Megan explore how we move from “destinational living” to “directional living,” and what it means to build a life and career by following curiosity, experimenting, and learning as we go. Megan Hellerer is the author of Directional Living and the founder of Coaching for Underfulfilled Overachievers. She spent eight years at Google in Strategic Partner Development before leaving to help other underfulfilled overachievers rethink work, success, and fulfillment. In this episode, Dart and Megan discuss: - The underfulfilled overachiever - Why success can still leave you miserable - Where our “shoulds” come from - Destinational vs. directional living - Why certainty can be so seductive - Curiosity over purpose - Using “warmer” and “colder” to find your direction - The value of small experiments - Designing more directional work - Can fulfillment become another destination? - And other topics… Megan Hellerer is the author of Directional Living: A Transformational Guide to Fulfillment in Work and Life and the founder of Coaching for Underfulfilled Overachievers. She has spent the past decade helping high-achieving people who feel unfulfilled rethink their relationship with work and success. Before becoming a career coach, she spent eight years at Google in Strategic Partner Development. She graduated from Stanford University with a degree in International Relations and is a Certified Professional Co-Active Coach. Resources Mentioned: Megan’s book: Directional Living: A Transformational Guide to Fulfillment in Work and Life: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593299272  Designing Your Life, by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101875321 Bill Burnett on Work for Humans: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/designing-your-life-how-to-use-design-principles-to/id1612743401?i=1000738307337 Margaret Heffernan on Work for Humans: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-cost-of-certainty-at-work-margaret-heffernan/id1612743401?i=1000754431168 Connect with Megan: Website: https://meganhellerer.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-hellerer-6868326/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  7. 4 Aug

    The Core Value Equation: Building Culture That Scales | Darius Mirshahzadeh, Revisited

    Darius Mirshahzadeh built the company he'd always wanted. In just three years, he grew it from a one-person operation into one of the fastest-growing companies in the United States. But when he looked around, he realized something unsettling: he hated the company he had created. That experience forced him to rethink what it really means to scale a business. In this revisited episode, Dart and Darius discuss how core values shape the way organizations grow, why culture must be designed intentionally, and what it takes to build a company that can scale without losing itself. Darius Mirshahzadeh is an entrepreneur, author, and leadership advisor who helps founders build values-driven organizations. He founded Twin Capital Mortgage, later served as CEO of The Money Source, and is the author of The Core Value Equation. In this episode, Dart and Darius discuss: - Building culture through values - When values become operational - Hiring for alignment - The language organizations create - Measuring engagement differently - Why some polarization is healthy - Scaling without losing your culture - Finding your calling - And other topics… Darius Mirshahzadeh is an entrepreneur, author, and leadership advisor who helps companies scale through strong culture and clearly defined core values. He founded Twin Capital Mortgage, growing it into one of the fastest-growing private companies in the United States, and later served as CEO of The Money Source. He is the author of The Core Value Equation, where he shares a framework for building organizations around values that guide hiring, leadership, and growth. Resources Mentioned: The Core Value Equation, by Darius Mirshahzadeh: https://www.amazon.com/Core-Value-Equation-Framework-Limitless/dp/1544506708 Connect with Darius: Official website: https://therealdarius.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dariusmirshahzadeh/ The Greatness Machine podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-greatness-machine/id1555334180 Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

  8. 28 Jul

    The Missing Discipline for Better Work | Chris Metcalfe

    After years building software products, Chris Metcalfe crossed into People & Culture and noticed something surprising. Organizations invested enormous effort into understanding customers, testing ideas, and improving products, yet the work people did every day was rarely designed with the same discipline. That realization led him to ask a different question: what if work itself were managed like a product? In this episode, Dart and Chris discuss what happens when organizations move beyond HR as a service function, how product thinking changes the way work is designed, and why better work begins with solving the right problems. Chris Metcalfe is a product leader and organizational strategist helping organizations apply product management to the design of work. After leading product teams at Workday, Docebo, and Primark, he now helps People teams build product capabilities through Red Oak and PX as a Product. In this episode, Dart and Chris discuss: - HR through a product lens - Treating work like a product - The customer inside your company - Solving real work problems - Outcomes over outputs - The power of constraints - Product thinking for HR - Rethinking HR as product - And other topics… Chris Metcalfe is a product leader and organizational strategist who helps organizations apply product management to the design of work. He has held product leadership roles at Workday, Docebo, and Primark, where he led product teams spanning enterprise software and People & Culture. Today, he is the founder of Red Oak and PX as a Product, where he helps organizations build product-led People functions and apply product operating models to the design of work. He also writes The Operating Model, a newsletter on product leadership, organizational design, and the future of work. Resources Mentioned: Inspired, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119387507 Transformed, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119697336 SapienX: https://sapienx.co.uk/ Chris's newsletter, The Operating Model: https://metcalfec.substack.com/ Connect with Chris: Red Oak: https://www.red-oak.agency/ PX as a Product: https://pxasaproduct.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-metcalfe-red-oak/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

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About

Too often business leaders are forced to choose between the needs of their company and the needs of their employees. It’s a lose/lose scenario leaving managers burned out and workers seeking other opportunities. At Work for Humans, we believe work can be designed differently. When you design work like products people love, your company wins. Work becomes irresistible, employees passionately buy into their roles every day, and your company takes measurable strides towards your vision.

Information

  • Creator
    Dart Lindsley
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    225
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Work For Humans
  • Show Website
    Work For Humans