The Elements of Deep Sea Mining

Eric Young

Details and Dialogue Matter tradingoff.substack.com

  1. 07/12/2025

    #29: Seeing Below the Surface: How Deep-Ocean Exploration Works with Anna Lim

    Geophysicist Dr. Anna Lim has spent the past several years turning the invisible into the intelligible—designing and leading deep-ocean exploration campaigns that map and model what lies four kilometres beneath the sea surface.Formerly Manager & Discipline Lead for Marine Minerals and Deep-Ocean Space Exploration at Argeo, Anna joins Eric to unpack what “exploration” really means: how you plan a cruise, what counts as good data, and why trade-offs between coverage, resolution, and time define everything that follows. The conversation moves from the technical to the philosophical—bias in discovery, uncertainty, and the quiet role of trust in every data pipeline. It’s a rare inside look at how the knowledge base is actually built. Follow Anna on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/limannageo/?originalSubdomain=no 🧭 Topics Covered * How exploration campaigns are planned and executed * The difference between good data and misleading data * Trade-offs: coverage vs. resolution, cost vs. information value * Survivorship bias in scientific discovery (“we only find what we look for”) * Data interpretation and the human element in modelling * Why “trust” and transparency matter even at the technical level Chapters 00:00 Intro03:23 Anna Lim’s Journey to Geophysics05:08 The Role of Multidisciplinarity in Research07:33 Research Focus on Hydrothermal Systems09:46 Exploration Campaigns: Planning and Execution12:31 Data Collection Techniques in Deep Sea Exploration15:30 Challenges in Identifying Mineral Deposits18:17 The Importance of Context in Geophysical Research20:41 Trade-offs in Data Collection23:22 The Data Pipeline: From Collection to Analysis26:06 Identifying Zones of Interest in Deep Sea Exploration36:35 Understanding Sampling Bias in Geological Surveys40:00 The Importance of Data Processing and Calibration44:44 Interpreting Data: The Role of Assumptions48:33 Navigating Time and Budget Constraints in Exploration55:14 Trade-offs in Decision Making for Deep Sea Exploration01:01:54 Post-Exploration: Reporting and Next Steps01:08:45 Technological Advancements in Deep Sea ExplorationTheme music: Tamarack by Jesse Matas This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    1h 16m
  2. #28: (Part 2) After the Debate: How to Disagree.

    24/11/2025

    #28: (Part 2) After the Debate: How to Disagree.

    After the formal deep-sea mining debate, Oliver, Victor, and I stayed on the line for a more casual conversation about how to disagree constructively. They continue to clash on the economics, the technology, and the strategic case for deep-sea mining—but the tone stays respectful and focused on substance. This episode gives you a peek behind the scenes at how serious disagreements don’t have to be personal—and how people on all sides are ultimately pushing toward the best outcome as they see it. What We Discuss * How to handle a polarized topic without turning it into a fight * Why Oliver thinks the economics of nodules are misunderstood * Why Victor sees DSM’s economic case as weak * The “unknown unknowns” of deep-ocean tech * Battery chemistries, demand signals, and shifting narratives * What each side thinks the other side consistently gets wrong * Why constructive disagreement matters for the DSM conversation Key Quotes * Victor: “Everything is calibration. Absolutism closes the mind.” * Oliver: “Technology can change the environmental equation.” Eric: “Disagreement over substance doesn’t need to become disagreement about character.” Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Context of Deep Sea Mining Debate03:21 Public Engagement and Democratic Processes06:20 Technological Innovations in Deep Sea Mining09:22 Environmental Concerns vs. Economic Viability12:34 Misunderstandings in Public Discourse15:14 The Role of Economics in Deep Sea Mining18:22 Future of Battery Technology and Metal Demand21:17 Constructive Dialogue and Future Collaborations This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    27 min
  3. #27: Debate (Part 1): Oliver Gunasekara and Victor Vescovo

    24/11/2025

    #27: Debate (Part 1): Oliver Gunasekara and Victor Vescovo

    This debate centers around the necessity and implications of deep sea mining, featuring Oliver Gunasekra advocating for its potential benefits and Victor Vescovo expressing skepticism regarding its environmental impact and economic viability. The discussion covers various aspects including environmental responsibility, the essential nature of deep sea minerals, economic viability, technological feasibility, and regulatory frameworks. Audience questions further explore concerns about environmental impacts, noise pollution, and the socio-economic implications for local communities. As global demand for critical metals surges, deep sea mining has become one of the most promising — and polarizing — topics in the clean energy transition. Join Oliver Gunasekara, CEO & Co-Founder of Impossible Metals, and Victor Vescovo, Founder and CEO of Caladan Capital LLC, for a live debate on whether responsible seabed resource collection is essential to meeting the world’s growing need for metals. The discussion will be moderated by Eric Young, Host of the Elements of Deep Sea Mining Podcast. Expect a lively exchange on the future of critical minerals: Which metals truly matter for electrification? Can advances in battery technology reduce the need for new sources — or is deep sea mining indispensable? Are the financial projections driving this emerging industry realistic, and how do they compare to those of traditional terrestrial mining? The debate will also explore the broader geopolitical and economic context — including China’s dominance in global metal processing — and whether sustainable deep sea mining can strengthen supply chain security while minimizing environmental impact. Eric Young is a researcher focused on the ethical and practical trade-offs in developing critical mineral supply chains. He hosts The Elements of Deep Sea Mining, a podcast created to bridge the gap between polarized opinions and the complex facts of seabed mineral development, aiming to increase the flow of information and encourage constructive discussion. Oliver Gunasekara is a serial entrepreneur with more than thirty years of experience building and scaling technology companies. At ARM, he led mobile business development during a decade of explosive growth—from 0% to over 95% market share—and later drove key acquisitions as VP of Corporate Business Development, including Falanx, whose Mali GPU became the world’s top-shipping graphics processor. He went on to found NGCodec, a pioneer in cloud video acceleration, where he served as CEO, raised over $15 million, and secured major customers such as Amazon/Twitch before its acquisition by AMD in 2019. In 2020, Oliver founded Impossible Metals, serving as its CEO. Oliver holds a B.S. (Honors) in Electrical and Electronic Engineering from the University of Greenwich, a Mini-MBA from Stanford’s AeA Executive Institute, and is the inventor of multiple patents. Victor L. Vescovo is a private investor with over thirty years of experience in complex business and operational environments. He co-founded Insight Equity in 2002, raising more than $1.5 billion across four funds focused on industrial and asset-intensive sectors. As Chief Operating Officer, he specialized in defense, aerospace, and electronics, leading operational turnarounds. In 2023, he left Insight to pursue independent investments in industrial innovation, life sciences, and venture capital. He holds degrees from Stanford University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Harvard Business School, where he graduated as a Baker Scholar. A former U.S. Navy Reserve Commander, he served twenty years as an intelligence and targeting officer. An accomplished explorer, Victor completed the Explorer’s Grand Slam, climbing the highest peak on each continent and skiing to both poles. He has led record-setting dives to the Challenger Deep in the Mariana Trench, explored seventeen deep-ocean trenches, and conducted missions to the Titanic and historic WWII wrecks, including the USS Johnston and USS Samuel B. Roberts. A licensed pilot and certified submersible test pilot, he also flew into space aboard Blue Origin’s New Shepard, becoming the first person to climb Everest, dive to the ocean’s deepest point, and travel to space. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    1h 29m
  4. #26: The Ethics of Deep Sea Mining - Espen Stabell

    10/11/2025

    #26: The Ethics of Deep Sea Mining - Espen Stabell

    In this episode, I speak with Dr. Espen Stabell, philosopher at the Western Norway University of Applied Sciences (HVL) and NTNU — and my PhD supervisor — about the ethical dimensions of deep-sea mining.We trace the foundations of environmental philosophy and how environmental ethics emerged as a response to growing ecological awareness in the 1970s. We discuss what moral philosophy can actually contribute to contemporary debates about resource use, and how frameworks like ideal and non-ideal theory shape what counts as a “reasonable” decision in the real world.The conversation moves from abstract questions of value — what does it mean to say nature has intrinsic worth? — to the practical difficulties of making decisions amid uncertainty, plural values, and competing interests. Takeaways * Deep-sea mining brings to the surface ethical questions that go far beyond technology or economics. * Ideal theories describe what a perfectly rational or just world would do; non-ideal theories help us act within the constraints we actually face. * Clarifying moral concepts like welfare and intrinsic value is essential before we can make coherent policy recommendations. * Ethical pluralism matters: reasonable people will disagree, and durable decisions depend on institutions that can hold that disagreement productively. Find Espen Espen Stabell HVL profile – https://www.hvl.no/en/employee/?user=Espen.Dyrnes.Stabell Research Gate Profile - https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Espen-Stabell/research ⏱️ Timestamps 00:00 — Introduction and why ethics keeps surfacing in deep-sea-mining debates04:50 — How environmental ethics began: Richard Routley’s “last man on Earth”15:00 — What philosophers actually add: clarifying contested concepts20:45 — The problem with using “intrinsic value” and “welfare” as plug-and-play terms31:30 — Hard choices and incommensurable values44:00 — Ideal vs. non-ideal theory: aiming for truth vs. acting in the real world1:05:00 — Why Espen grew more cautious about simple ethical recommendations1:18:00 — Pluralism, democratic deliberation, and rational institutions1:26:00 — Building decision frameworks that work under uncertaintyTheme mustic Tamarack by Jesse Matas Links: Espen’s thesis - Deep Sea Uncertainty: Studies in Environmental Ethics and Decision-Making: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336561671_Deep_Sea_Uncertainty_Studies_in_Environmental_Ethics_and_Decision-Making Richard Routley - Is there a need for a new environmental ethic?:https://iseethics.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/routley-richard-is-there-a-need-for-a-new-an-environmental-ethic-original.pdf Arguments from Need in Natural Resource Debates: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337285117_Arguments_from_Need_in_Natural_Resource_Debates Why Environmental Philosophers Should Be “Buck-Passers” about Value: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355174932_Why_environmental_philosophers_should_be_'buck-passers'_about_value This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    1h 19m
  5. #25: Dr. Rahul Sharma: perspectives of seabed mining and the Indian context as a developing country

    22/10/2025

    #25: Dr. Rahul Sharma: perspectives of seabed mining and the Indian context as a developing country

    Dr. Rahul Sharma — is former Chief Scientist at India’s CSIR–National Institute of Oceanography, Goa, India. With more than 40 years of experience exploring and assessing marine minerals, Dr. Sharma is among the world’s foremost experts in deep-sea mining research. He holds a Master’s degree in Geology and a Doctorate in Marine Science, and his work has helped define India’s marine mineral program since its inception in the early 1980s. He has published 38 scientific papers, 41 technical reports, 27 articles, and presented over 60 conference papers. He has also edited five major Springer volumes on deep-sea mining, bringing together experts from across disciplines: * Deep-Sea Mining (2017) Resource Potential, Technical and Environmental Considerations * Environmental Issues of Deep-Sea Mining (2019) Impacts, Consequences and Policy Perspectives * Perspectives on Deep-Sea Mining (2022) Sustainability, Technology, Environmental Policy and Management * Deep-Sea Mining and the Water Column (2024) Advances, Monitoring and Related Issues * Deep-Sea Mining: Management, Policy and Regulation (2025) Data Management, Environmental Monitoring, Techno-Economic Assessment, Law of the Sea and Regulatory Regimes Follow Dr. Sharma on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahul-sharma-22405639 Chapters 00:00 Intro & Rahul’s background06:30 Finding India’s area: from papers to pixels to permits09:50 Geology & grades: Indian Ocean vs CCZ19:30 Japan, Saudi, India—different capabilities, different goals22:55 India’s need, portfolio, and who’s building what40:00 Hype vs. history: how attention ramped51:10 Tech deep dive: platform/collector/riser and AUV shuttles59:10 Impact experiments & mitigation by design1:14:20 Need, scale, and making hard choices1:20:10 Rahul’s latest books & where to follow Theme Music Tamarack by Jesse Matas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1s1eD4F31A&list=RDw1s1eD4F31A&start_radio=1 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    1h 22m
  6. #24: Stig-Morten Knutsen: Comfortably Numb vs Confronting Uncertainty

    09/10/2025

    #24: Stig-Morten Knutsen: Comfortably Numb vs Confronting Uncertainty

    Stig-Morten Knutsen is Chief Geologist at the Norwegian Offshore Directorate, Vice Chair of the UN Expert Group on Resource Management, and a member of the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf. In these roles, he grapples with some of the biggest—and most uncomfortable—questions in resource management: how to balance risk, uncertainty, and trust across industries ranging from oil and gas to carbon capture and seabed minerals. In this conversation, we discuss: * The details and development of Norway’s offshore regime * The challenge of balancing three competing dimensions: resources, environment, and geopolitics. * Why uncertainty—and our comfort with it—may be the central issue in the deep-sea mining debate. * The importance of trust, open data, and the “Norwegian model” for resource management and avoiding the “resource curse”. If you want to understand how Norway is trying to balance its offshore legacy with a new frontier—and what it takes to move the global conversation forward without collapsing into polarization—this episode is for you. Follow Stig-Morten on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stigmortenknutsen/?originalSubdomain=no Chapters 00:00 Understanding Resource Management and Deep Sea Mining03:03 Stig-Morten Knutsen: Background and Roles05:50 The Role of the Norwegian Offshore Directorate08:33 The Current State of Deep Sea Mining in Norway11:04 Exploration and Concession Processes13:42 The Challenges of Licensing and Regulation16:29 Public Perception and Trust in Resource Management19:16 The Intersection of Psychology and Resource Management22:05 Norway's Success in Resource Management24:49 The Future of Deep Sea Mining and Trust Issues34:07 Evaluating Deep-Sea Mining Licenses37:53 Understanding Stances on Deep-Sea Mining38:43 Dimensions of Deep-Sea Mining: Environment, Resources, and Geopolitics41:28 The Role of Uncertainty in Decision-Making44:25 The Importance of Timing in Resource Management47:14 Navigating Trust and Discomfort in Deep-Sea Mining49:48 The Resource Curse and Its Implications53:21 Exploring the Path Forward for Deep-Sea Mining57:00 The Need for Open Discussion and Data Sharing Resources/Links The NOD (Norwegian Offshore Directorate) homepage on Seabed minerals: https://www.sodir.no/en/facts/seabed-minerals/ The Ministry of Energy on Seabed minerals: https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/sea-bed-minerals/id2664074/ The ISA (International Seabed Authority - about): https://www.isa.org.jm/about-isa/ Centre for Deep Sea Research (UiB): https://www4.uib.no/en/research/research-centres/centre-for-deep-sea-research This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    1h 7m
  7. #22: Jesse van der Grient - Science without Sides

    21/09/2025

    #22: Jesse van der Grient - Science without Sides

    Dr. Jesse van der Grient is a quantitative ecologist whose work focuses on how ecosystems connect — across habitats, species, and stressors. She brings a neutral, science-based perspective through her work with the Deep Ocean Stewardship Initiative (DOSI), a network of experts that does not advocate for or against deep-sea mining, but provides the science needed for informed decision-making. Jesse puts detials to the biology of the deep ocean and unpacks the interactions of deep-sea ecosystems and what they mean for the future of seabed mining. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Deep Sea Mining and Ecosystems 01:47 Understanding Marine Biodiversity and Management 04:15 Research Journey: From Marine Biology to Deep Sea Mining 06:57 Complex Interactions: Stressors in Marine Environments 09:28 Ecosystem Modeling and Its Challenges 12:42 Ecosystem Services and Fisheries Overlap 15:26 Impacts of Sediment Plumes on Marine Life 18:20 The Role of Indicator Species in Ecosystem Health 21:29 Data Gaps in Deep Sea Research 24:01 Cumulative Impacts and Future Directions 29:01 Ecosystem Insights: Bridging Shallow and Deep Sea Research 33:03 Understanding Deep Sea Ecosystems and Mining Vulnerabilities 37:19 Connectivity in Deep Sea Populations: Implications for Conservation 43:31 Comparing Deep Sea and Terrestrial Ecosystems: A Complex Debate 47:37 Uncertainty in Deep Sea Research: The Need for Comprehensive Sampling 53:30 Risks of Deep Sea Mining: Sedimentation and Species Vulnerability Theme Music Tamarack by Jesse Matas Key takeaways * “We need to understand what is being managed… the connections in the deep ocean people don’t always know about or understand very well.” * “Two stressors can cancel each other out, or they can amplify each other. More often than not, we see synergistic impacts.” * “Counting parts doesn’t tell you if the car works. In ecosystems, knowing species numbers isn’t enough — we need to know how it functions.” Links and resources * Jesse’s Research Gate profile: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jesse-Van-Der-Grient * Deep Ocean Stewardship Initiative (DOSI): dosi-project.org * DOSI Minerals Working Group: https://www.dosi-project.org/minerals/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

    56 min

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