Decoder with Nilay Patel

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Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

VOR 3 TAGEN

How companies weaponize the terms of service against you

Brendan Ballou is founder of the Public Integrity Project and author of the new book, When Companies Run the Courts, about the rise of forced arbitration. Forced arbitration is similarly everywhere in modern life, and there have been some very high-profile cases these past few years highlighting how deeply unfair these clauses are to consumers. Brendan’s book delves into how and why we got here — spoiler: we can blame Antonin Scalia for some of it — but also, most importantly, how we may be able to fight back in the future. Links: When Companies Run the Courts | Hachette Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R Us | Decoder Press freedom groups demand access to Paramount records | The Wrap Disney gives up on trying to use Disney+ to settle wrongful death suit | The Verge Samsung, corruption, and you (2017) | The Verge The surprising case for AI judges | Decoder Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decode Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

55 Min.
VOR 6 TAGEN

Joanna Stern is not a robot, but she lived with them

My guest today is longtime friend of the show Joanna Stern. You all know Joanna: she is the former senior personal technology columnist for The Wall Street Journal, a former Decoder guest host, one of my co-founders at The Verge, and also just one of my very closest friends. Joanna just left that lofty perch at the Journal to start her own media company called New Things, and she’s starting with her new book about AI called I Am Not a Robot, which is out this week on May 12th. So we had Joanna on to talk about all of that, especially what she learned going all in on automation. Links: I Am Not a Robot | Harper Collins It’s time. Meet my New Thing | Joanna Stern Why I left My prestigious job to make YouTube videos | Joanna Stern / YouTube Signing off from this column after 12 years. Here’s what’s changed in tech | WSJ I tried the robot that’s coming to live with you. It’s still par human | WSJ The people do not yearn for automation | Decoder Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 Std.
7. MAI

Rewind: How AI is fueling an existential crisis in education

Hey, everyone, Nilay here. We’re off today, while the team and I are cooking on a lot of really great stuff in the coming weeks. We’ll be back with an all-new interview on Monday. In the meantime, we really wanted to highlight this episode we first aired in the fall, because it’s about a huge subject: AI in schools. The school year is starting to wrap up now around the country, and we’re no closer to figuring out how to thread the needle about generative AI in education than we were in September. Links: A majority of high school students use gen AI for schoolwork | College Board About a quarter of teens have used ChatGPT for schoolwork | Pew Research Your brain on ChatGPT | MIT Media Lab My students think it’s fine to cheat with AI. Maybe they’re on to something. | Vox How children understand and learn from conversational AI | McGill University ‘File not Found’ | The Verge Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

42 Min.
4. MAI

Dara Khosrowshahi on replacing Uber drivers — and himself — with AI

It’s become an annual tradition to have Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi join us in the studio when he comes to New York for Uber’s big Go-Get event every year. This year, the big news was that Uber's expanding into a much larger platform for travel, starting with hotel booking and services like personal shopping. Uber is going so far as to call this an everything app, so I wanted to see how far Dara thinks everything actually goes — and whether he’s feeling pressure to own more of the user experience in a world where AI companies keep promising that their chatbots will book all the cars for you. Links: Uber adds hotels to its app in big travel swing | The Verge Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay with reinventing the bus | Decoder I have to be honest, AI will replace jobs at Uber | Diary of a CEO The DoorDash problem | Decoder Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky wants to build the everything app | Decoder Booking and Priceline chief wants you to yell at bots, not humans | Decoder Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 Std. 14 Min.
30. APR.

How to win — or lose — Decoder

This is Nick Statt, senior producer on Decoder. We last ran a mailbag episode during the holidays, and we decided it was a good idea to do that kind of thing more often. So we’re back with Nilay as the guest, answering questions and responding to feedback, criticism, and suggestions. We talk through some recent controversial episodes like our interviews with the CEOs of Superhuman and Puck, and we also discuss how we’re covering AI, thinking about the future of the show, and what it takes to win (and lose) Decoder. Links: Nilay answers your burning Decoder questions | Decoder Mailbag (2025) Answering your biggest Decoder questions | Decoder Mailbag (2024) Confronting the CEO of the AI company that impersonated me | Decoder Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age? | Decoder The people do not yearn for automation | Decoder Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

45 Min.
27. APR.

That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks

Jennifer Scanlon is CEO of UL Solutions, one of those hidden-in-plain-sight companies we like to poke at here on Decoder. UL's been around for more than 100 years; it started as a way for insurance companies to standardize fire and safety testing as electricity was the new technology spreading into homes. But now it's everywhere, and "safety" in tech doesn't just mean the hardware. UL is adapting quickly to the connected, AI-powered era... but do the companies making and distributing tech even care about standards anymore? Links: How fake UL certifications led to Chinese ebike suit | Electrek FCC IoT program loses UL after China probe | Cybersecurity Dive FCC’s Carr probes IoT program lab over “ties to China” | PC Mag The US router ban, explained | The Verge More than 500,000 hoverboards recalled (2016) | The Verge Brendan Carr is a dummy | The Vergecast Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 Std. 3 Min.
23. APR.

THE PEOPLE DO NOT YEARN FOR AUTOMATION

Today on Decoder, I want to lay out an idea that's been banging around my head for weeks now as we've been reporting on AI and having conversations here on this show. I've been calling it software brain, and it's a particular way of seeing the world that fits everything into algorithms, databases and loops. Software brain is powerful stuff. It's a way of thinking that basically created our modern world. But software thinking has also been turbocharged by AI in a way that I think helps explain the enormous gap between how excited the tech industry is about the technology and how regular people are growing to dislike it more and more over time. Links: Why software Is eating the world | Marc Andreessen Gen Z’s love-hate relationship with AI | The Verge The attacks on Sam Altman are a warning for the AI world | The Verge Silicon Valley has forgotten what normal people want | The Verge I saw something new in San Francisco | The New York Times Anthropic CEO issues dire warning about white-collar work | The Street Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

19 Min.
20. APR.

Canva's CEO on its big pivot to AI enterprise software

The last time Canva CEO Melanie Perkins was on Decoder, the company was starting a big push into enterprise. Now, she's leading it through a total reinvention, going, in Canva's words, "from a design platform with AI tools to an AI platform with design tools." But there's a lot of competition in that AI enterprise space. Not only is Canva competing with design software like the Adobe Creative Suite, but also it's competing with AI companies, like Anthropic and Meta, that are launching their own AI design platforms. So we talked a lot about whether Canva really is the right platform to bring the whole workspace together. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links: Canva AI 2.0 goes all in on prompt-powered design tools | The Verge The creative software industry has declared war on Adobe | The Verge Anthropic launches Claude Design | TechCrunch Canva is now in the coding and spreadsheet business | The Verge Melanie Perkins thinks the world needs more alternatives to Adobe | Decoder (2024) ⁠Subscribe to The Verge⁠ to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 Std. 7 Min.

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TRAILER

Welcome to Decoder

It may seem like a strange time to launch a podcast about business when the pandemic has frozen so many things in place, but the future is still coming — people are building technology and making policy for it right now. And it’s important to talk to them. This is Decoder with Nilay Patel. New episodes coming November 10th. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

27.10.2020

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4 Min.

Nilay Patel

Moderation
Brendan Ballou

Gast
Joanna Stern

Gast
Dara Khosrowshahi

Gast
Jennifer Scanlon

Gast
Melanie Perkins

Gast
Ronan Farrow

Gast
Sarah Personette

Gast
Hayden Field

Gast
Chuck Robbins

Gast

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Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.