This is the Creative Funding Show, a podcast for authors, YouTubers, and podcasters who want to fund the work they love without selling out. I’m Thomas Umstattd Jr., and with me today is Bremner Morris. He’s the head of Patreon’s Creator Partnerships and Creator Success Teams. He helps creators join the platform and become more successful once they get on Patreon. What is Patreon? Bremner: Patreon is a membership platform for artists and creators to get paid by their most loyal fans. What I mean by that is artists and creators can use Patreon to engage with their audience on a monthly, recurring basis. They establish a membership fee with those fans by offering them something exclusive and unique as part of that membership campaign. Today, we have about 70,000 creators on the platform, processing about 150 million payments a year. To date, we’ve processed about 300 million payments back to creators. So it’s pretty exciting. Thomas: It’s very exciting, especially when you consider 150 million a year and 300 million total. That means the growth curve is up and to the right quite a bit. How many new creators are joining the platform on a given week? Bremner: We’re adding hundreds of creators per week. We have a lot of folks who join the platform just to test it out. But we also have many who join and see significant outcomes because they have a very established fan base. Patreon is really for folks who have an established fan base. They’re simply converting their most loyal audience into paying subscribers. Thomas: If no one knows who you are, Patreon is not going to help very much. Bremner: We have an internal term that says we’re not for the “zero to fan” problem, we’re for the “fan to member” problem. Thomas: I’ve noticed that many people are surprised by how much their most loyal fans are willing to give. There’s a curve, and at the top are a few fans who would happily give you hundreds of dollars a month, sometimes without even wanting the rewards. That’s the big surprise. You put together these amazing perks, yet some fans never even send you their mailing address. I’ve heard creators say, “Yeah, I reached out, and they replied, but they didn’t care about the rewards. They just wanted to support me.” Creators who aren’t using something like Patreon are leaving money on the table. If you’re an author just selling books, your most passionate fan and your most casual fan both pay the same $10. But that passionate fan wants more. They want a deeper connection with you, so you just have to give them the opportunity. Bremner: There are probably two motivations for a patron to sign up. One is a support motivation. Patrons really love what you do and want to continue supporting your craft so you can make it a sustainable lifestyle. The other side of the coin is a benefits-oriented patron. Patrons sign up because of the exclusive benefits they get for being a member. Interestingly, these motivations merge over time. We’ve seen that folks who sign up as support-oriented patrons tend to migrate toward being more benefits-oriented, and those who sign up for extra episodes or exclusive merchandise begin to feel great about supporting creators they love. The average patron spends about $12 on the platform, which is more than a typical subscription to a music or video service. Some creators offer benefit tiers in the thousands of dollars and have patrons converting at that rate. Thomas: It’s remarkable. You spend $10 for Spotify, and it’s split among tens of thousands of songs. Whereas if you’re spending $12 on Patreon, it’s probably split between five or six creators. That’s a much bigger piece of the pie. If I’m an artist on Spotify, any given listener may be giving me a few pennies. On Patreon, I could be getting a few dollars from that same listener. What’s the best way for a creator to speak to both motivations? Thomas: So what’s the best way for a creator to speak to both motivations? I often see creators who are really good at saying, “Help me do this,” and others who are great at saying, “Look at these amazing rewards.” What’s the best way to do both? Bremner: First, creators need to understand the motivations of their audience. Some audiences are really support-oriented, others are more benefits-oriented, and some are a mix. We advise creators to take a step back when launching their membership program and think about their audience’s motivation. If they’re unsure, they can ask their audience directly to understand what drives them. Thomas: A great way to do this is through a contest. Everyone enters the contest by giving you their email address, and the winners get to have a conversation with you. This builds your email list and gives you qualitative research as you chat with your fans. Bremner: We have a survey we’ve been sending to creators that they can use with their audience to understand those motivations. Right now, we’re just piloting it, but we hope to offer it publicly on our website soon. We’re revamping our education materials and investing more in a comprehensive guide to using Patreon. So stay tuned. How do you connect with reward-based supporters? Thomas: That’s how you connect with cause-based folks. What about for more reward-based folks? Bremner: Once you understand your audience’s motivations, the next step is to highlight the benefits of membership. For a support-oriented fan, focus on what their backing means to you. Explain how their participation helps you maintain a sustainable, independent creative career and how their ongoing support fuels your work. For a benefits-oriented fan, focus on what they get in return for their membership dollars, like exclusive merchandise, bonus episodes, or whatever fits your brand. Frame it as a value-for-value exchange by saying, “At this tier, you get X; at the next tier, you get X plus Y.” And rather than talking about Patreon directly, connect it to something they already know. Call it a membership, like a gym, or a subscription tied to their credit card. Thomas: It allows you to buy all the things that you buy. Bremner: Exactly. And credit cards have benefits. Most people understand, “Hey, I’m going to fork over $12 a month in exchange for something in return.” Creators must realize that what they’re offering is valuable. Many creators are uncomfortable “asking for money,” but really, they’re asking for fair value in exchange for what they contribute to the world. You’re assigning a dollar value to your work. That value should reflect both how much your fan base values it and how much time, energy, and emotion you’ve invested. Thomas: Your patrons are actually helping you create whatever it is you’re making. If you create an amazing animated video on YouTube, someone who donates gets to feel like, “I helped make that possible.” Maybe they can’t do what you do as the artist, but they can still feel a sense of ownership, and that’s powerful. One of my clients started creating a little wall with bricks on it, putting her patrons’ names on the bricks. It’s straight out of university fundraising, where they build a new library and put donors’ names on a brick for $1,000. People love that. They love knowing they contributed, even in a small way. Maybe it’s a million dollars to have the library named after you, but it’s only a few hundred to get a brick with your name. Why does recurring income matter for creators? Bremner: Having an ongoing, sustainable stream of income truly enables creative independence. Creators, whether musicians, authors, podcasters, or video creators, have often had to pander to sponsors, ad dollars, or distribution platforms like YouTube or Spotify. That means tailoring their content to algorithms instead of focusing on creating meaningful, quality content for their loyal fans. The ongoing relationship with fans is key. First, it gives predictability for the creator. Second, it empowers independent creation that appeals to your most dedicated audience. Thomas: And it helps smooth out the lumpiness of income. I’m primarily from the author world, and authors experience the worst lumpy income. Even successful traditionally published authors might receive just three checks a year. Those checks can be large, but authors need discipline not to blow it all. I’ve talked to agents whose clients make plenty of money, but because it doesn’t come in consistently, they struggle with debt and need advances. That’s one reason I was excited about Patreon when I discovered it back in 2014. I’d seen Kickstarter in action. You might run a Kickstarter for season six of your podcast and get all your money at the beginning. But that means you’d better have done a great job budgeting. Patreon can provide a steadier income, plus you still get to keep those “lumps” from book sales. In fact, people who buy a book through Patreon are usually paying more for it because they’re not coming for a deal. If they wanted a bargain, they’d go to Spotify or YouTube. Patreon is for your most passionate fans. It reduces anxiety. Maybe you’re not making tons on Patreon, but just knowing the rent or mortgage is covered next month lets you take creative risks. Bremner: We see Patreon, or membership in general, as your core sustaining income stream. It doesn’t have to be Patreon, but a recurring membership is like a paycheck. Other opportunities, like book deals or sponsorships, are those bonus bumps. They’re wonderful, but inconsistent. The nice thing about Patreon is that we’re not an exclusive platform. We won’t prevent you from doing other things. Our mission is to help creators get paid, and we believe that starts with sustainable income so you can confidently pursue your craft. How is Patreon different from Kickstarter? Bremner: We don’t really see Kickstarter as a co
