Unchained

Laura Shin
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Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world.

  1. 3 hr ago

    Why CME Sued the CFTC Over the Kalshi Bitcoin Perp Approval

    A regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens. The hosts trace why CME did it, and why the CFTC may have better odds than crypto Twitter thinks. Thanks to our sponsor! 👉 Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠. 👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED). CME has sued the CFTC, its own primary regulator, a rare move for a regulated exchange, landing the day after longtime CEO Terry Duffy announced he would step down. The trigger: the CFTC's approval of a narrowly tailored Kalshi Bitcoin perpetual, the first true perp cleared onshore. Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le untangle CME's two arguments, that perps are swaps rather than futures, and that the agency acted arbitrarily by skipping notice and comment and reversing its own prior position in a single day. They weigh whether the case can win, and why the process may matter more than the outcome. From there, the panel digs into Cboe's prediction-style S&P 500 contracts headed to Schwab's customers and the binary-option-versus-swap line. With a recent poll finding 43% of Americans believe AI could "literally end the human race," Jessi argues crypto can't afford to dismiss the people who become its juries, judges, and voters. The conversation covers the CME lawsuit, prediction markets arriving on Wall Street, a viral $1 to $5 million crypto legal job, and the growing public backlash against AI. Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda Timestamps 🏛️ 01:59 Why a regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens ⚖️ 04:38 CME's two arguments, and why "future delivery" could reach the Supreme Court 🧠 12:51 Why process and durability may matter more than the outcome 🚪 19:54 How the Kalshi order opened the floodgates for self-certified perps 📊 23:48 Cboe's S&P 500 prediction contracts head to Schwab, and the binary-option-versus-swap line 🛡️ 33:27 Cape: Stop SIM swaps and get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained 💙 34:22 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 💼 35:05 The Pump.fun chief legal officer job and its $1 to $5 million salary 🤖 37:02 Why the AI vibe check has turned bleak and why crypto should care 🐶 47:10 This week's good news: the Marlins hunt for the hot dog meme Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    50 min

  2. 1 day ago

    How the Strategy Empire Breaks, and Whether Saylor Can Stop It

    Vinny Lingham warned 18 months ago that Michael Saylor would harm Bitcoin more than FTX. Now he maps how the Strategy empire breaks and the one move that could slow the bleed. ======================================================== Thank you to our sponsor! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED). ======================================================== Strategy's stock has fallen over 80% from its November 2024 high, its STRC preferred trades well below par, and a fresh $335 million raise has done nothing to restore confidence. Vinny Lingham, co-founder of Praxos Capital, tweeted in October 2024 that Michael Saylor would do more damage to Bitcoin than FTX. On Unchained, he argues the collapse was always predictable, and that this is not a Ponzi but what he calls a 'Saylor scheme.' Lingham maps how the empire breaks once MSTR trades at a discount to mNAV, why the 32-Bitcoin sale and the $1.5 billion buyback of 2029 converts blew Saylor's runway, and why $6.7 billion in convertible notes raises default risk by 2028. He also weighs a Soros-style attack theory and the switch to bimonthly dividends. His fix is the one thing Saylor won't do: stop buying, stop diluting, wait it out. The question is who removes the biggest buyer of Bitcoin, him or the market. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained Guests: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vinny Lingham - Co-founder of Praxos Capital Timestamps 📉 01:11 Strategy in free fall: why Vinny says the collapse was always coming 🪤 06:24 Why buying back 2029 debt blew Saylor's runway ₿ 07:36 The '32 years of dividends' claim and what a deeper bear market does to it 🏚️ 10:23 How the MSTR empire actually breaks: the discount-to-mNAV trap 🎯 13:35 Why is Strategy faltering? Is it leverage or a Soros-style attack on MSTR? 💙 16:38 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained 💚 17:32 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 📆 18:15 Why switching to bimonthly dividends makes the problem worse ⏳ 19:29 The $6.7B convertible-note overhang and the 2028 default risk 🛟 22:07 Can MSTR be saved, and the most likely outcome from here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    26 min

  3. 3 days ago

    Are Perpetuals Swaps or Futures? The CME Picks a Fight

    Three years ago, Chris Perkins sat across from Terry Duffy in Congress and made the case for perpetuals. Duffy pushed back — hard. Now Duffy's CME is suing the very regulator that finally allowed them. The CME argues Bitcoin perpetual futures are really swaps and should carry far more collateral. Chris traces the Dodd-Frank history that created the swap-versus-future divide, and Austin Campbell lays out why picking this fight in a post-Chevron court could backfire on the incumbent. Is a perpetual a swap or a future, and who gets to decide? Hosts: Austin Campbell - Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern Ram Ahluwalia - Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida Chris Perkins - Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto This clip is from a longer conversation on tokenization, the AI trade, and the CME's lawsuit against the CFTC. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/oSiOeWq_pKE  We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET - subscribe to catch it live.  Sponsor Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED). Chapters ⚖️ 00:00 The incumbent sues its own regulator: what the CME is actually claiming 📜 01:22 Chris on Terry Duffy, and the testimony fight that set this up 🏛️ 02:12 The Dodd-Frank origin story, traced back to the 2009 G20 ⏱️ 03:12 Why a 'swap' costs five days of margin and a future costs two 🌊 04:42 Constrain leverage onshore and watch it flee offshore ⚠️ 05:15 Austin: why the CME should be careful what it wishes for 🧨 06:26 The Dodd-Frank footnote where Congress admits it punted 🤝 08:20 ICE, OKX, and Kraken: where the dance partners line up 🎯 09:12 What the market really needs out of all this Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    11 min

  4. 4 days ago

    How Digital Credit Assets like STRC and SATA Differ from Bitcoin or DAT Stocks

    Was Michael Saylor wrong to sell Bitcoin? Matt Cole breaks from his fellow critics on Strategy, S&P's junk rating on MSTR, and whether the model is breaking. ======================================================== Thank you to our sponsor! ⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED). ======================================================== Strive's Matt Cole had just lived through what he called the most difficult day in the history of digital credit when he sat down to defend it. STRC had touched $82.50, SATA had slipped into the low nineties, and the Bitcoin treasury trade was suddenly the most argued-over corner of crypto. Cole came from a pension background and built Strive into one of the largest Bitcoin treasury companies around a single conviction: that structured credit can solve an income problem fiat can't. The critics, he argues, can't even agree with each other on what is actually wrong. Was last week a leverage liquidation or a crack in the model? Did Michael Saylor quietly change his story? And is wrapping Bitcoin in preferred stock a betrayal of its ethos or the bridge most people actually need? Laura Shin pressed on all of it. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained Guests: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Cole - Chairman and CEO of Strive Timestamps 🎙️ 02:07 What Strive is, and why Matt calls SATA the company's main product 🏦 10:16 Could Strive cut SATA's 13% yield without breaking par? 👥 15:45 Who is actually buying SATA, and the one buyer Matt says he's never met 📣 25:15 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers and make the decision that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 🔒 25:58 Cape: Use code unchained for 33% off at https://cape.co/unchained 💧 27:28 What Matt thinks really drove last week's STRC drop, and why SATA didn't follow 🏛️ 31:28 Why Matt won't fault Saylor for selling, and the S&P rating he calls a joke ⚖️ 50:53 Is buying SATA un-Bitcoin? Matt answers the Mallers vs Saylor critique Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    56 min

  5. 19 Jun

    Why Kalshi's John Wang Says Perps Are 'the Most Pure Trading Instrument'

    Kalshi just brought crypto perps to the US, targeting a $90 trillion offshore market. Its Head of Crypto, John Wang, explains the bet, the risks, and who Kalshi is actually competing with. ======================================================== Thank you to our sponsor! ⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED). ======================================================== The $90 trillion offshore market for crypto perpetual futures just got its first US-regulated entrant. Kalshi — the prediction market exchange that raised $1 billion at a $22 billion valuation — launched the first CFTC-approved crypto perps, becoming the only domestic exchange approved on launch day. John Wang, Kalshi's Head of Crypto, joins Laura Shin to map how perpetual futures work, why Kalshi's guarantee fund and segregated accounts differ from what offshore venues provide, and how the exchange plans to compete with Hyperliquid, Coinbase, and Kraken. Wang pushes back on CME Group CEO Terry Duffy's claim that crypto perps are "a disaster waiting to happen," noting CME's own futures carry higher leverage than Kalshi's platform. He covers the ARCA and Galaxy block trades on Kalshi's prediction markets, insider trading protections built around athlete and congressional staff lists, and the regulatory filings separating Kalshi from perps on equities. Wang estimates only 0.2% of the US has adopted perpetual futures — the real growth has barely started. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained Guests: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠John Wang - Head of Crypto at Kalshi Timestamps 🎯 02:51 Why Kalshi chose crypto perps as its first product outside prediction markets 🔧 05:15 What a perpetual future is and why traders prefer it over options and standard futures 🤓 11:14 The metric that reveals real demand: Kalshi's ratio of trading volume to open interest 🛡️ 14:19 How Kalshi plans to onboard Americans, and how its risk model differs from Hyperliquid's auto-deleveraging 🏛️ 21:05 Wang on Terry Duffy's claim that crypto perps are 'a disaster waiting to happen' 🎓 23:17 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 📱 24:00 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained 🤝 25:32 How institutions are pitching its perps to institutions — and which ones have so far done trades 🌐 33:09 How Kalshi plans to compete with Hyperliquid, Coinbase, Kraken, and Robinhood 🔍 41:14 How Kalshi attempts to prevent insider trading — and what John thinks about its rivalry with Polymarket 💰 46:16 Kalshi's roadmap after its $1 billion raise at a $22 billion valuation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    49 min

  6. 19 Jun

    Why Pandl Calls Gold and Bitcoin Buys Here

    Zach Pandl, Head of Research at Grayscale Investments, argues that speculative retail flows, not geopolitical fundamentals, drove the recent gold and Bitcoin selloffs. His read: momentum chasing built gold from $4,000 to well above $5,000, then rotated out to chips and pre-IPO trades. The underlying deficit-and-debt case for both assets hasn't changed, and he's calling the dip a buy for longer-horizon investors. He closes with Grayscale's H2 DeFi revenue thesis. Hyperliquid is the clearest proof of concept: a protocol with a clear use case, real revenue, and value returned to token holders. Grayscale applied a discounted cash flow model to Aave and published a price target on the token. Host: Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink - https://x.com/Steven_Ehrlich Guest: Zach Pandl - Head of Research at Grayscale Investments - https://x.com/LowBeta This clip is from a longer conversation on the Fed's hawkish pivot, the SpaceX IPO, crypto winter, and Strategy's preferred equity. Full episode here: https://www.youtube.com/live/WIlLtRQidQg?si=ONIIkcPElZFgpa8l  We go live every Thursday at 12:00pm ET - subscribe to catch it live. Sponsors Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED). Chapters 🔍 00:00 Steve on gold and Bitcoin's worst quarter - what happened during the Iran war 📊 00:57 Why Pandl argues speculation, not fundamentals, drove both the run-up and the selloff 🥇 02:42 The buy case - Pandl on what to do when speculative excess washes out 💡 03:25 Steve asks about second-half assets and Standard Chartered's Uniswap call 💰 03:50 Why Hyperliquid and Aave anchor Grayscale's H2 DeFi revenue thesis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    7 min

  7. 18 Jun

    Why Sam Enzer Says the Fable 5 Ban Should Worry Crypto

    The US government issued a Friday-night export control directive against Anthropic's Fable 5, citing a jailbreak that could expose advanced cyber capabilities built into the underlying Mythos model. No statutory authority was publicly disclosed. No comment period was given. Sam Enzer, Partner and CahillNXT Co-Chair at Cahill Gordon & Reindel, joins Austin Campbell, Ram Ahluwalia, and Chris Perkins to assess the directive's legal standing. Enzer draws a parallel to Gensler-era regulation by enforcement: familiar government power applied to new technology, with no transparent framework. His central question: if export controls can reach an AI model's API, can the same authority reach a US-based DeFi protocol serving foreign nationals? Austin raises the Choke Point parallel and asks where the limiting principle actually is. Ram argues that restricting software is restricting speech under the First Amendment. Chris warns that national security will always be the trump card unless the industry makes a credible counter-argument. Hosts: Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern - https://x.com/austincampbell Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida - https://x.com/ramahluwalia Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management - https://x.com/perkinscr97 Guest: Sam Enzer, Partner and CahillNXT Co-Chair at Cahill Gordon & Reindel This clip is from a longer conversation on AI export controls, national security, and the First Amendment. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/pEh1zr1pj90  We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET - subscribe to catch it live. Sponsors 👉 Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com  Chapters 🤖 00:00 Austin on the Fable 5 export directive: what the ban said and what Anthropic disputes ⚖️ 02:09 Sam Enzer's initial take: a familiar overreach pattern with unfamiliar stakes 📜 05:03 Sam on what's missing from the directive: no public letter, no statutory basis, no comment period 🏛️ 07:06 Austin on the Choke Point parallel and the question the government hasn't answered 🔒 08:40 Chris on national security as the regulatory trump card and what the industry needs to counter it 📚12:21 Ram on why banning a model is the new book burning 🗳️ 18:15 Sam on what the government should do: due process, disclosed authority, and FOIA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    21 min

  8. 12 Jun

    Why the AI Business Model Is Cracking and How Crypto Could Help Fix It

    OpenAI, Anthropic, SpaceXand the AI IPO cycle face a structural problem: a cheap, capable open source exit is already drawing enterprise users away before either company goes public. ======================================================== Thank you to our sponsor! ⁠Fidelity⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠. ⁠Cape⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED). ======================================================== A viral tweet by Tom Shaughnessy, founding partner of Delphi Ventures, identified the most basic way AI could blow up: a 40x subsidy gap between consumer AI subscriptions and enterprise API costs quietly pushing businesses toward open source inference providers at 1% of the price. Citadel Securities published a near-identical thesis shortly after. Shaughnessy joins Laura Shin to map the implications for the AI IPO wave, starting with SpaceX. Low floats and passive index demand should lift these stocks out of the gate, but public market disclosures will force OpenAI and Anthropic to reveal payback periods, margins, and subscriber numbers for the first time. He also argues OpenAI's reported price cuts target Anthropic's growth metrics before the IPO, not user demand. The episode also covers the China model wildcard, whether AI model restrictions amount to big brother fearmongering, and whether crypto's tools for capital formation could keep the AGI flywheel from stalling. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained Guests: ⁠Tom Shaughnessy - Founding Partner of Delphi Ventures and Co-Founder of Delphi Digital Timestamps 💸 01:10 Why over $600B left crypto in 30 days: AI deal outflows, the SpaceX IPO. and quantum concerns 🧵 04:46 Tom's viral tweet: the 40x subsidy gap hidden in AI subscription pricing 📊 07:51 Why AI IPO filings will force the financials nobody has seen 💡 10:16 Why open source inference will compete with the frontier labs 🏗️ 13:06 Why frontier labs need to own what they create, not collect $200 per month 📣 15:55 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained 📣 17:01 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com 🌏 18:08 Chinese open source models and why going closed source could help OpenAI ⚔️ 20:58 Why Tom says OpenAI's price cuts target Anthropic's IPO, not users 🤬 22:09 Why AI model censorship is big brother fearmongering 🔗 24:42 Crypto's answer: ICO for open source AI, Nous Hermes, Venice, Grass, Ambient Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    32 min
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About

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world.

Information

  • Creator
    Laura Shin
  • Years Active
    2016 - 2026
  • Episodes
    1.2k
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2020 Laura Shin. All Rights Reserved.
  • Show Website
    Unchained

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