How can we experience crushing pain without experiencing it as suffering? Again and again, life brings us to a crossroads: will we hold our pain by ourselves, or let G-d meet us in it? In this conversation, Chaya Cowen reflects on grief, personal experiences of devastation, and the leap of allowing G-d into moments shaped by self-blame and anger toward Him. She shares how the loss of her first pregnancy, which ended in stillbirth, shaped her relationship with Hashem, and offers a moving reading of Eicha as a journey through self-blame, anger, and the search for connection. We also talk about how to pass Judaism on with honesty and joy: welcoming children’s questions, meeting the feelings beneath them, and modeling what it looks like to balance exploration with commitment. * * * * * * * Chaya Cowen is a Sacks Scholar, the Head of Learning & Teaching at Beth Rivkah Ladies College in Melbourne, and oversees a comprehensive high school curriculum and teaches courses in Tanach, Jewish History, and Jewish Philosophy. She has a passion for education with a focus on meaningful, empowered and personalized Jewish learning, and explores the interface between Judaism and the wider world. Chaya resides in Melbourne, Australia with her husband and four children. She can be reached at cowen.chaya@gmail.com To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at info@humanandholy.com To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor. Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨ Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts. * * * * * * * TIMESTAMPS:00:00 The difference between pain and suffering 00:15 Welcome and the episode’s central question 03:35 Meet Chaya Cowen, educator and mother 05:13 Choosing a relationship with Hashem through life’s challenges 08:57 Fertility, loss, and facing what we can’t control 11:26 Reading Eicha as a journey through grief 17:31 Why we blame ourselves after tragedy 18:37 What happens when anger turns toward G-d 21:16 The leap of letting G-d into our pain 23:02 Drawing strength from ancestors and Jewish stories 24:42 The story of Zusha and a different view of suffering 26:04 Finding a way to express and process grief 28:01 How to acknowledge pain without being alone in it 30:58 How to support someone who is grieving 34:23 The lasting mark of pain and asking it for a blessing 36:14 Helping children build a relationship with Hashem 37:11 The educator as a “midwife” to Torah 41:10 Welcoming students’ questions without judgment 45:12 Balancing exploration with commitment 46:28 Modeling beauty and meaning in Jewish practice 49:34 Teaching Torah with joy and continued learning 52:25 Finding a personal path into Jewish life 54:33 Bringing joy, Shabbos, and questions into the home 55:21 Chaya’s closing message
