It Gets Late Early: Ageism in the Workplace

Maureen Wiley Clough
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Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

  1. HACE 2 DÍAS

    The Hoodie Myth Is Dead: Why the Best Tech Founders Are Over 40

    What if everything you thought you knew about startup success was wrong? In today’s episode of It Gets Late Early, I’m breaking down the myth that young, hoodie-wearing entrepreneurs are the key to successful startups. Spoiler: the data proves otherwise.  According to MIT research, the average age of a high-growth startup founder is 42 — not 21. The top 1% of founders are even older, typically around 45 years old. Yet, venture capitalists continue to invest in young, inexperienced founders, ignoring the seasoned leaders with decades of experience. I also tackle the growing age discrimination in tech, where older workers are pushed out despite having the experience and connections that drive success. Companies that embrace diverse ages and experiences in their teams are the ones that succeed.  Let’s flip the script on startup success. It's time to stop assuming that youth equals innovation. It’s never too late to go after your dreams, and age is an asset, not a liability. “So just why is it that older workers tend to be more successful? Two words: life experience.”  ~ Maureen Wiley Clough In This Episode: -Research from MIT: the truth about successful startup founders -The age bias in venture capital and tech hiring -Why older founders have an advantage over younger ones -The challenge to venture capitalists: stop funding failure -Encouraging older tech workers: your experience matters And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -EEOC Special Report - https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/high-tech-low-inclusion-diversity-high-tech-workforce-and-sector-2014-2022 -MIT Research on Age and High-Growth Entrepreneurship - https://mitsloan.mit.edu/shared/ods/documents?PublicationDocumentID=6212#:~:text=Our%20primary%20finding%20is%20that,growth%20new%20ventures%20is%2045.0. -Ageism in Tech Hiring - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/maureenwclough_tech-ageism-hiring-activity-7369769952683171841-u7zS?utm_source=social_share_send&utm_medium=member_desktop_web&rcm=ACoAAACPAV4BMEaPyyLI0T1Hayp_eLtXH5AO5-4 -iPhone unveiling with Steve Jobs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4 -Workplace Age Discrimination Cases Grow Nationwide - https://gbsbenefitsgroup.com/workplace-age-discrimination-cases-grow-nationwide/#:~:text=The%20Equal%20Employment%20Opportunity%20Commission%20(EEOC)%20has,Act%20(ADEA)%20as%20in%20fiscal%20year%202022 -Late-Career Job Losses Are Blurring What Retirement Looks Like in America - a...

    14 min

  2. 30 SEP

    The $259B Problem Hiding in Your Meetings — and How to Solve It

    Meetings. Ugh. We’ve all been there, right? And the price tag is bigger than most people realize. We estimate that the cost to organizations of these unproductive meetings is approximately $259 billion in the United States and $64 billion in the United Kingdom for professional staff alone (LSE report). That’s a jaw-dropping drain on productivity—yet it’s largely preventable. In today’s episode of It Gets Late Early, I’m joined by Dr. Daniel Jolles, a behavioral scientist and psychologist at the London School of Economics, who’s back for his second appearance. Dr. Jolles and I go deep into the world of generational diversity in meetings, exploring how getting it right can significantly boost productivity and reduce wasted hours. We’re also tackling the elephant in the room: AI in the workplace. With organizations now mandating the use of AI, how can we, across all generations, navigate this technology without falling victim to bias or further exclusion? We cover the shocking stats about how unproductive meetings cost businesses billions each year and how companies can make sure that no one, especially older workers, gets left behind in the AI race. Trust me, this episode is a wake-up call. If you’re looking to fix your meetings, ensure inclusivity, and stay ahead in the AI-driven future, you don’t want to miss it. “We find that there's a huge lack of generational diversity happening in our meetings. Our research suggests that that's hurting productivity because there are diversity benefits to be gained by having voices from the younger and older employees present in meetings, especially when it comes to big-decision meetings.”  ~ Dr. Daniel Jolles In This Episode: -Why employees are not that fond of meetings -The impact of generational diversity on meetings -The cost of unproductive meetings -AI’s potential to revolutionize the workplace -The impact of the proliferation of AI recording tools And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -LSE Report: When Generations Meet by Dr. Daniel Jolles and Dr. Grace Lordan - https://www.lse.ac.uk/tii/assets/documents/When-Generations-Meet.pdf Connect with Dr. Daniel Jolles: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danieljolles/ -Website: https://www.danieljolles.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.instagram.com/maureenwclough/"...

    42 min

  3. 16 SEP

    20% Fake Jobs. 31% Never Hear Back. What Are Companies Doing?

    Ever applied, interviewed, and…silence? You’re not alone. In this episode, we crack open the hiring black box: the rise of ghost jobs (roles that never close or never existed in the first place), the avalanche of AI-boosted applications, and why 31% of rejected candidates never even get an email.  My guest Ariana Moon, VP of Talent Planning & Acquisition at Greenhouse, a software platform managing the hiring process, explains how their Greenhouse Verified badges reward employers who actually walk the talk—communication, fairness, respect, and preparation—so candidates can spot companies that treat people like people. We also get real about what great hiring actually looks like: structured scorecards, clear rubrics, and leaders who blend experience with fresh perspectives. Ariana shares lessons from a very millennial workforce moment (when ~10% of the company went on parental leave at once!) and how Greenhouse supports parents with thoughtful leave, re-entry, and caregiver communities—without letting careers evaporate. Whether you’re job hunting or leading a team, this episode is a playbook for a fair, respectful, and effective process—because employer brand is a long game, and candidates remember how you made them feel. Update: Since this recording, Ariana has given birth to a healthy baby boy! Both mom and baby are doing great. “Greenhouse Verified is a way that we can signal to the talent market that we are a company that prioritizes things like good communication, being prepared in how we run our interview processes, being fair in how we think about our interview processes, and being respectful when we're interacting with candidates. ”  ~ Ariana S. Moon In This Episode: -What are ghost jobs? -Greenhouse Verified initiative -Improving internal processes in the workplace -Experiences with ageism in the workplace -ERGs and supporting parents in the workplace And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide Connect with Ariana S. Moon: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ariana-s-moon/ -Website: https://www.greenhouse.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    40 min

  4. 2 SEP

    70% of the Money. Zero Attention — or Employees. What Are Brands Thinking?

    Marketers love chasing Gen Z. But here’s the trillions-of-dollars blind spot: Gen X and Boomers control nearly 70% of U.S. disposable income and outspend younger generations in nearly every major category — alcohol, beauty, travel, finance, and more. So why are brands still ignoring them? In this episode, I sit down with Brent Rivard, founder and CEO of Geezer Creative, an agency built on a radical idea: the “forgotten generation” isn’t just relevant — they’re the growth engine brands are missing. We unpack how the ad industry’s obsession with youth culture has aged itself out of opportunity, what’s at stake for marketers, and how Gen X and Boomers are reshaping the creative economy. You’ll also hear shocking stats about how the industry treats its veterans, the challenges older professionals face in a rapidly evolving gig economy, and why AI is becoming a make-or-break skill for creative professionals of every generation. Because if brands keep underestimating us, that’s on them. But if we underestimate ourselves? That’s on us. The creative economy is shifting fast — from AI to the rise of the gig economy — and this conversation will give you a fresh (and dare I say slightly rebellious?) perspective on where your experience fits next. “The last thing the world needed was another ad agency, so we opened one. But we didn't just open one–we opened one that has a point of view.”  ~ Brent Rivard In This Episode: -Ageism in the advertising industry -Why Gen X consumers are crucial for marketing success -Geezer Creative’s approach to Gen X-centered marketing -The advantage of intergenerational marketing teams -Adapting to the gig economy in the creative space -Shifting client priorities and how agencies can adapt -AI and its impact on the creative industry -Encouraging older professionals to embrace new opportunities -Creative solutions for dealing with layoffs and market shifts And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -The Gen X Career Meltdown - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/28/style/gen-x-creative-work.html Connect with Brent Rivard and Geezer Creative: -Brent Rivard LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-rivard-7ba8b37/ -Geezer Creative LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/geezer-creative/ -Website: https://www.geezercreative.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: a href="https://www.instagram.com/maureenwclough/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    49 min

  5. 19 AGO

    The 10% Rule: Why a Little More Vulnerability Can Change Everything With Will Greenblatt

    Why is it terrifying to present to just four people? According to Will Greenblatt, it's because our brains still think the tribe might "club us over the head" if they don't like what we say. Will's journey from Canadian child actor (yes, a self-proclaimed "nepo baby") to sought-after corporate speaking coach is anything but typical. After working with Anne Bancroft as a kid and nearly getting swept up in the Hollywood machine, a family tragedy and toxic theater school experience led him to completely reinvent himself. But here's what makes this episode essential listening: Will discovered that the same skills that make great actors also create breakthrough leaders. The difference? It's not about performing—it's about finding emotional truth and connecting authentically with your audience. The game-changing insight: When Will's clients embrace just 10% more vulnerability in meetings, they see measurable career improvements—better performance reviews, more influence, and stronger professional relationships. Because while everyone else is playing it safe, that small dose of authenticity makes you unforgettable. We dive deep into why mentorship is broken in today's workplace, how to spot genuine people in interviews, and Will's three-act framework for storytelling that builds instant trust. Plus, he shares the uncomfortable truth about why taking career risks, like leaving acting or corporate, might be the safest move you can make. “You give somebody the opportunity to destroy you, and you hope that they won't, and they might. But you can't love without that risk. And it's the same kind of thing when you tell your boss what you really think.”  ~ Will Greenblatt In This Episode: -The real difference between performing and authentic communication -Why our fear of public speaking is literally prehistoric  -The 10% vulnerability rule that transforms careers  -How to build trust through authentic storytelling  -Will's childhood-to-adult-choice framework for connection  -Why the "speaker-writer-coach-creator" career is the future  -How to network without being transactional  And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -Supercharge Your Speaking Skills by Will Greenblatt - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2esQpzqZUUYD8Nxp9lKe05K1aYMpsNwU Connect with Will Greenblatt: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willgreenblatt/ -Website: https://www.skool.com/speakingheroes/about Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: a href="https://www.instagram.com/maureenwclough/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    51 min

  6. 5 AGO

    Fired and Diagnosed With Cancer: How Daniel Incandela Rebuilt His Life

    Losing a job is never easy, but what if it led to a more fulfilling path? Daniel Incandela, former CMO, opens up about the painful yet transformative experience of being fired in his 50s. In this episode, he shares the emotional toll it took, how he navigated the challenges, and the powerful lessons he learned along the way. Today, I sit down with my good friend, Daniel Incandela, who, like many of us, faced the harsh reality of burnout and being let go. His story is one of resilience and transformation. Despite the painful blow of being fired, Daniel reflects on how the experience helped him realign his priorities, focusing on family, health, and ultimately finding his path forward through consulting and creative work. We discuss the importance of reflection and accountability, even in the most challenging moments. Daniel’s journey sheds light on how career paths don’t always go as planned, and how the pressure to “do it all” can weigh heavily on us. From navigating ageism in a competitive job market to embracing AI as a necessary tool for today’s workforce, Daniel discusses how he’s finding purpose in his new role and working towards a future that aligns more with his values. If you’ve ever felt like your career took an unexpected turn, this episode is for you. Daniel’s story is a powerful reminder that we can find clarity even in moments of doubt. “I've been on this journey that I think I really needed in life, and it has helped me awaken from things I did not see.”  ~ Daniel Incandela In This Episode: -Daniel’s transition from CMO to consultant -Embracing change and realizing what really matters -Leadership in the time of AI -The reality of getting fired in your 50s -Experiencing the immense benefits of slowing down -Looking ahead: the future of work in a gig economy -Why learning how to use AI is no longer optional And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -The Gen X Career Meltdown - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/28/style/gen-x-creative-work.html Connect with Daniel Incandela: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielincandela/ -Substack:https://substack.com/@danielincandela -Newsletter by Daniel Incandela - https://danielincandela.substack.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.instagram.com/maureenwclough/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    40 min

  7. 22 JUL

    What No One Tells You About Personal Branding at Work With Danielle Hughes

    Let’s face it, whether you're looking for a new job, trying to stand out in your current role, or considering a career pivot, building a personality brand is a real game-changer (you read that right. A personality brand, not a personal one). In today’s landscape, you need more than just experience; you need a personality that resonates. In this episode, Danielle Hughes, Chief Personality Officer at More Than Words Marketing, joins me to chat about why creating a personality brand isn’t just about ‘selling’ yourself. Danielle shares tips on how to confidently showcase your authentic self in your professional persona, particularly on platforms like LinkedIn. She emphasizes the importance of not just telling your story but showing it through real examples and personal achievements.  Whether you're pivoting careers or leveling up in your current role, branding is more important than ever. Tune in to hear how you can use your personality to stand out in the competitive job market and connect authentically with others. And just in case you're interested in working from beautiful homes all over the world, Danielle shares how she makes it happen. “Why is it a personality brand and not personal? Personal means private, so I never understand why we tell people to have a personal brand. Personality is who we are, and that's how we foster connection...with other people.”  ~ Danielle Hughes In This Episode: -Danielle's elevator pitch  -Why personality branding is crucial in today’s world -How to connect your career story with your brand -Developing your personality brand on LinkedIn -Advice for people contemplating a career shift or facing layoffs -The need for an optimized LinkedIn profile -How to differentiate yourself in an oversaturated job market -An interesting story about Danielle -Danielle's approach to helping clients craft their personality brand -Final thoughts on using personality branding to stand out And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -Swap Homes and Unlock the World - https://www.homeexchange.com/ Connect with Danielle Hughes: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellehughes/ -Website: https://www.morethanwordscopy.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    39 min

  8. 8 JUL

    The AI Industry Is Lying to You — And This Founder’s Calling It Out at Age 66

    Is AI living up to the hype, or is it just another overblown bubble that’s gonna pop? In this episode, Stephen Klein, a 66-year-old AI founder who is challenging the status quo in the world of artificial intelligence, joins me to expose what he believes is the truth about AI, from inflated promises to the real potential it holds for augmenting human intelligence. Trust me, this is what you won’t be hearing in the headlines about AI.  We jump into the much-hyped world of AI, and Stephen shares his no-holds-barred views on what’s happening (and why speaking out is making him enemies in Silicon Valley). We discuss how many companies are rushing to market with products that aren’t actually as groundbreaking as they claim, and how the industry itself often misleads us about AI’s capabilities for their own benefit, leading with scary headlines about how all of us are being laid off because of AI. Stephen doesn’t just talk about AI; he’s actively shaping its future. But he’s not just creating another automation tool. He’s building AI that truly augments human intelligence, and that’s where it gets interesting. Stephen’s company, Curiouser.AI, is different. It focuses on creating AI that enhances our creativity and critical thinking, things that the industry is currently sidelining in favor of quick fixes and efficiency. He challenges the corporate culture surrounding AI and explains how the industry needs to move away from pure automation and toward true collaboration between humans and machines. We also jump into the wild world of LinkedIn, where Stephen’s satirical posts challenge the hype surrounding AI and expose the industry’s biggest players.  If you’ve been confused about what this AI thing is all about or what to do, swept up in the AI frenzy or have doubts about where the industry is headed, this conversation will give you some powerful insights into what’s really going on behind the scenes that you’re unlikely to find in the typical media coverage. If you want to hear more from Stephen, check out his LinkedIn for more satirical insights and join the conversation on the future of AI! “I think that artificial intelligence is the single greatest innovation–invention–in the history of humanity, and I couldn't be more optimistic about where it's going.”  ~ Stephen Klein In This Episode: -An AI founder at 66 -Creating AI that augments human intelligence -The misconceptions around ageism in tech -The impact of curiosity-driven AI on human creativity -Why people should be careful when using AI -AI's role in the future of work  -How to deal with fear -The future of AI in business and ethics -The power of LinkedIn as a platform for your cause And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide Connect with Stephen Klein: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenbklein/ -Website: https://curiouser.ai/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: a href="https://www.itgetslateearly.com/" rel="noopener...

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Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

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