Law of Code

Jacob Robinson

Understand the legal layer of emerging technology. Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.

  1. 2 DAYS AGO

    #200 - Money Transmission & Developer Liability

    Can the U.S. government send a software developer to prison for writing and publishing code? That's the question at the center of the Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet prosecutions, and every crypto founder, builder and investor should understand the answer. This deep-dive episode walks through the history of U.S. money transmission law, how the DOJ is applying it to non-custodial software developers, what the Roman Storm verdict actually means, and what new legislation could change in 2026. Guests: Peter Van Valkenburgh — Executive Director, Coin CenterAmanda Tuminelli — Chief Executive Officer, DeFi Education FundBrian Klein — Partner at Cooley, lead defense attorney for Roman StormJake Chervinsky — Hyperliquid Policy Center (cameo)This is the most comprehensive podcast I've ever done. Welcome to Law of Code, Season 2. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:18 What's at stake? 4:40 Which developers are at risk 6:03 Custodial vs. non-custodial 9:32 What is a money transmission license? 9:47 Steamships, the telegraph & Western Union 12:14 The Bank Secrecy Act 13:38 Section 1960 15:26 The Patriot Act 19:39 FinCEN's 2013 and 2019 guidance 24:42 OFAC sanctions Tornado Cash 27:30 How Tornado Cash works 30:48 Coin Center v. Yellen 32:24 DOJ indicts Roman Storm, Roman Semenov, Roman Sterlingov & Samourai Wallet developers 35:15 The Van Loon win 40:33 Developer losses 43:48 Bad facts make bad law 48:46 Brian Klein on Roman Storm's case 50:50 The Brady letter 57:00 Michael Lewellen sues for answers 1:09:24 The Blanche memo 1:18:46 The Galeotti speech 1:26:13 Catch-22 for developers 1:30:03 The chilling effect on U.S. innovation 1:33:48 Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act 1:38:03 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act 1:45:28 What's next Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    1hr 49min

  2. 20 APR

    #186 - AI & Legal Privilege

    Does attorney-client privilege exist when you use ChatGPT or Claude? Should it? Jacob Robinson sits down with Mike Katz, Partner at Manatt Phelps & Phillips, to examine whether attorney-client privilege, work product or any analogous protection applies when people ask AI chatbots legal questions. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Background ➡️ 1:47 — What is attorney-client privilege? ➡️ 2:44 — Policy reasons for narrowing privilege ➡️ 3:30 — The Upjohn case (1981) ➡️ 4:34 — Privilege vs. work product doctrine ➡️ 5:17 — Three elements to establish privilege ➡️ 7:23 — Consumer AI terms of service and confidentiality ➡️ 8:09 — How you lose privilege ➡️ 11:30 — War stories ➡️ 15:39 — Vibe lawyering ➡️ 19:09 — Could Anthropic, OpenAI be liable? ➡️ 22:48 — The Heppner case (2026) ➡️ 26:26 — The Kovel doctrine (1961) ➡️ 28:14 — Incognito mode & deleted chats ➡️ 30:59 — The policy question ➡️ 34:00 — This is not a new problem ➡️ 37:05 — Are lawyers coal or horses? Jevons Paradox Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact. Also: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠Click here⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    42 min

  3. 13 APR

    #185 - When Circle must freeze USDC (and when they probably should) with Austin Campbell

    When does U.S. law require Circle to freeze USDC? It's a question many are asking after a series of wallets were frozen in connection to a sealed civil case, and again after Solana's Drift Protocol was drained of $285 million. Jacob Robinson is joined by Austin Campbell, founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, for a masterclass on the legal framework governing stablecoin freezes. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Intro ➡️ 2:00 — The March 2026 freeze of 16 wallets tied to a sealed civil case ➡️ 4:31 — How bank freezes actually work ➡️ 7:27 — Circle's legal obligation to freeze ➡️ 9:40 — Does Circle's terms of service even apply to secondary holders? ➡️ 11:24 — The privity problem ➡️ 13:20 — The five-piece legal framework that functions like a safe harbor for institutions freezing assets ➡️ 16:43 — DeFi's second-order exposure to asset freezes ➡️ 18:29 — Can DeFi adapt? ➡️ 21:03 — Circle's response to the Drift exploit ➡️ 22:34 — DeFi and the legal system ➡️ 24:27 — Bitcoin as the ideologically consistent alternative ➡️ 28:18 — Why people want intermediaries with liability ➡️ 31:04 — The Drift exploit: why Circle should have frozen USDC ➡️ 36:34 — The exploit difficulty ➡️ 38:27 — Real world assets on chain: the DeFi trilemma Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact. Resources: 📓 Circle's April 10, 2026 statement on the Drift exploit and USDC freeze authority by Dante Disparte📓 ZachXBT's X thread on Circle's USDC freeze historyAlso: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠. https://lawofcode.beehiiv.com/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    43 min

  4. 7 APR

    #184 - Transaction Denied: Rainey Reitman on Financial Censorship

    What are the risks of allowing financial institutions to cut off access to the economy for lawful but controversial activity? Rainey Reitman is a civil liberties advocate and the author of Transaction Denied, a comprehensive investigation into debanking, financial censorship, and the growing role of financial institutions in regulating speech. She previously worked at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and co-founded the Freedom of the Press Foundation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:20 — Why cash functions as a civil liberty (privacy + censorship resistance) ➡️ 3:21 — What inspired Transaction Denied and early experiences with debanking ➡️ 5:20 — The Chelsea Manning Support Network PayPal freeze ➡️ 8:27 — Operation Chokepoint and the rise of financial censorship ➡️ 11:25 — “Banking while Muslim” and over-compliance with sanctions ➡️ 15:08 — The Patriot Act and incentives for financial surveillance ➡️ 17:12 — Financial intermediaries and the power to block transactions ➡️ 17:48 — Bitcoin, custodians, and whether crypto solves debanking ➡️ 19:33 — Why financial censorship affects everyone—not just targeted groups ➡️ 21:58 — NRA v. Vullo and the limits of government pressure on banks Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📚 Pre-order Transaction Denied 📖 The Patriot Act  👩‍⚖️ Supreme Court decision in National Rifle Association v. Vullo Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    28 min

  5. 6 APR

    #183 - A founder's playbook for new SEC crypto guidance

    What should crypto founders know about the SEC and CFTC's joint interpretive guidance on securities law? Joining to discuss is Joe Doll (@Sh0edog), Counsel at Day One Law and previously General Counsel at a crypto startup. Joe wrote a detailed breakdown of the guidance aimed at founders, which we walk through from start to finish. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Intro ➡️ 0:07 — Why the Howey Test exists ➡️ 3:11 — Why tokens are not necessarily securities ➡️ 7:47 — The five-category token taxonomy explained ➡️ 8:45 — Digital commodities ➡️ 12:13 — The four-factor "statement" test ➡️ 15:57 — Why the guidance might chill disclosure ➡️ 19:32 — Joe's proposal for a minimum attachment period ➡️ 23:30 — Fungibility and the token sales problem ➡️ 28:29 — Decentralization, disclosure obligations, and the CLARITY Act ➡️ 29:41 — Why the attachment theory better serves the policy goals of securities law ➡️ 31:51 — Airdrops ➡️ 37:53 — The CLARITY Act's control framework ➡️ 38:58 — Linux, Red Hat, and the case for immutability ➡️ 43:12 — Equity versus token value ➡️ 43:25 — The story behind the handle @sh0edog ➡️ 45:04 — Decentralized communities Resources: 📓 Joe Doll's article breaking down the SEC and CFTC interpretive guidance for founders📓 SEC and CFTC joint interpretive release on the application of securities laws to crypto assetsDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship. Obviously.

    40 min

  6. 30 MAR

    #182 - Lewis Cohen explains new SEC & CFTC token guidance

    When does transacting in a crypto asset become a securities transaction? The SEC and CFTC recently issued an interpretation clarifying how the federal securities laws apply to certain crypto assets and transactions involving crypto assets. Joining to discuss that is Lewis Cohen, co-chair of Cahill’s digital assets and emerging technologies practice and one of the leading experts on the application of U.S. securities laws to crypto. Timestamps: ➡️ 2:26 — Why a token can be a non-security asset, but still sold in a securities transaction➡️ 4:21 — The SEC’s “attachment and separation” concept explained➡️ 7:22 — Secondary market transactions and the limits of existing case law➡️ 11:15 — Why third parties may be exposed to securities law risk➡️ 14:09 — Who counts as an “issuer” in crypto—and why the concept breaks down➡️ 17:56 — What qualifies as a promise or representation under Howey➡️ 23:27 — Why disclosure—not classification—is the real solution➡️ 25:46 — Can an investment contract “detach” once promises are fulfilled?➡️ 30:19 — Civil liability, enforcement risk, and second-order market effects➡️ 34:42 — The danger of bifurcated markets and uneven information access Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📓 SEC’s interpretive release on the application of security laws to crypto assets and transactions ✍️ Lewis Cohen's client alert on the recent guidance Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    49 min

  7. 23 MAR

    #181 - Fixing crypto's banking bottleneck with Aaron Brogan

    Can new “payment accounts” with the federal reserve solve the crypto industry’s banking problem? Aaron Brogan is the founder and managing partner of Brogan Law, where he advises crypto companies on regulatory strategy, transactions, and policy. He also works with industry groups like the Blockchain Association on comment letters and rulemaking related to crypto banking access and financial regulation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:22 — What a Federal Reserve master account is and why crypto firms want one➡️ 6:34 — “Skinny” payment accounts: what they include—and what they leave out➡️ 7:16 — The core flaw: no interest, no overdraft protection, and balance constraints➡️ 10:52 — Why incremental policy wins matter in Washington➡️ 12:16 — How agency posture—not law—has shifted dramatically since 2024➡️ 13:09 — Advising clients amid uncertainty: baseline law vs. regulatory signals➡️ 16:11 — Why now may be the best time to take regulatory risk in crypto➡️ 16:44 — The biggest risk: a political shift triggered by a “black swan” event➡️ 18:36 — Onshoring vs. offshore structures: why many crypto projects still leave the U.S.➡️ 21:53 — Prediction markets, state vs. federal power, and a likely Supreme Court fight Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org.  Resources: 📃 Aaron’s newsletter on so-called “skinny” master accounts, with a discussion of his comment letter on behalf of the Blockchain Association 📖 The Federal Reserve's RFI on Reserve Bank Payment Accounts ✉️ “Brogan Law is Built for War” newsletter by Aaron Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    43 min

  8. 16 MAR

    #179 - This month in crypto law: March 2026

    What were the most important legal and regulatory developments in crypto this month? In this episode, we review developments from stablecoin rulemaking and DeFi liability cases to the ongoing fight over prediction markets. Jonathan Schmalfeld is Director of Policy at The Digital Chamber, where he focuses on crypto policy, digital asset legislation, and regulatory developments in Washington. Timestamps ➡️ 1:07 — SEC guidance allowing broker-dealers to apply a 2% capital haircut to payment stablecoins➡️ 4:37 — OCC’s GENIUS Act implementation proposal and the debate over stablecoin yield restrictions➡️ 11:14 — The Promoting Innovation and Blockchain Development Act and developer liability protections➡️ 17:27 — Federal court dismissal of claims against Uniswap and what it means for DeFi developers➡️ 22:55 — How Kalshi enforced insider trading rules in its CFTC-regulated prediction markets➡️ 27:37 — Kalshi’s preliminary injunction against Tennessee regulators and the federal preemption fight➡️ 31:15 — Why prediction market litigation could eventually reach the U.S. Supreme Court➡️ 36:25 — Institutional adoption: Morgan Stanley custody plans, Kraken’s Fed master account, and crypto banking licenses➡️ 40:24 — Operation Chokepoint 2.0 and proposed rules eliminating “reputational risk” in bank supervision➡️ 43:23 — Why competition between crypto and traditional finance is accelerating Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📃 Updated SEC Division of Trading & Markets FAQ ✍️ Hester Peirce statement on updated SEC FAQ 📃 OCC Notice of proposed rulemaking for implementation of the GENIUS Act 📓 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act of 2026 📃 Kansas City Fed statement on Kraken’s fed master account Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

    44 min
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About

Understand the legal layer of emerging technology. Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.

Information

  • Creator
    Jacob Robinson
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2026
  • Episodes
    185
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Jacob Robinson
  • Show Website
    Law of Code

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