Flanigan's Eco-Logic

Ted Flanigan

Flanigan's Eco-Logic, hosted by Ted Flanigan, provides cutting-edge information and insights in sustainability and the clean energy space. Episodes address alternative energy -- featuring solar, storage, microgrids, vehicle grid integration, and energy access. In addition, the podcast covers resources issues -- like water and food issues, and even slow fashion. Flanigan’s enthusiasm, vast experience, and deep network in the energy and environmental arena are palpable as he brings exciting and encouraging green developments to the fore, interviewing and engaging leading policy makers and practitioners throughout the United States and in many countries around the world.

  1. Chéri Smith -- Tribal Clean Energy Update

    2 DAYS AGO

    Chéri Smith -- Tribal Clean Energy Update

    Chéri Smith heads up the Alliance for Tribal Clean Energy. She'd been on the podcast in 2022 explaining the Alliance's operation then. She and Ted discuss the change in presidential administrations and its affect on tribes. While the Alliance is 100% supported by philanthropies, purposefully exempt from the volatility of changing administrations, the tribes that the Alliance supports were heavily impacted, with hundreds of millions lost and projects stranded, retarding the development of clean energy on reservations.  Since her last Eco-Logic episode, Chéri had a whole department writing grants and structuring projects. In 2024 that team wrote $800 million worth of applications for clean energy. Fully $490 million was awarded to 49 tribes. "But within four days after the inauguration.. money clawed out bank accounts, literally clawed out." She explains that there were no letters, only a "giant sucking sound." Programs were abruptly cancelled such as EPA's Solar for All program that was helping tribes put modest solar systems on homes, in cases providing power for the first time. Tax credits that provided up to 70% of the cost of solar installations, were eliminated. There are 575 recognized tribes in America and another 100+ that are not recognized. Fully 229 tribes are Alaskan native villages. Chéri is of My'kyma descent, a tribe from Northern Maine and the Canadian Maritimes. She makes clear how profound the political changes have been to the tribes. They had begun to develop projects spurred by government funds and backed by third-party finance despite tribes generally being "allergic to debt."  The cancellation of many projects, and the loss of tax credits and other support programs, has eroded trust that had been building... the trust necessary to develop large-scale projects that can boost economic development on tribal lands. Chéri explains the impact to the Hopi after the closure of the coal-fired Navajo Generating Station. It had provided lease fees to the Hopi, creating a huge hole of lost revenues and lost jobs. A billion-dollar, utility-scale, 400 MW solar project to serve wholesale markets, was going to fill this gap and provide a pathway to prosperity going forward. The conversation shifts to how the Alliance has adapted. The Alliance created the Indigenous Power and Light Fund in 2024 with a $100 million goal. So far it has raised $38 million from three primary philanthropists, money that is now being used for grants and loans to spur renewable energy projects, providing just-in-time capital, filling funding gaps, forming capital stacks where private markets won't. The Alliance is prioritizing clean energy projects that provide energy access, build climate resilience, lessen reliance on fossil fuels, and provide resources for climate and fire disasters. Drawing inspiration from the tribes it serves, Chéri reports that the Alliance has grown despite discouraging federal policies. In the past two years, the Alliance staff has nearly tripled and the Alliance has added highly experienced professionals to its team and capabilities to better serve ~180 tribes. The Alliance has also formed the Tribal Energy Leadership Fellowship... an initiative to train tribal leaders in partnership with Haskell Indian Nations University, Harvard, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

    33 min
  2. Ben Lochtenberg -- Xero Solar's Business and Contribution

    23 MAR

    Ben Lochtenberg -- Xero Solar's Business and Contribution

    Ben Lochtenberg came to solar for good reason: He sees solar as an elegant energy solution, one that will keep on giving for years. His mission as the Founder and Managing Director of Xero Solar is to tap solar as a "perpetual" energy source and to promote a transition to a more resilient world. Xero is working to create a brighter future for all, through residential solar services as well as programs for underserved youth, neurodiverse children, as well as faith-based and spiritual communities. Born in Australia, Ben spent his youth in England before his family migrated to America. His career led him to specialize in material science -- physics and chemistry -- working for big corporations on electronics, semiconductors, printed circuit boards, and solar cell fabrication. At the age of 48 he decided to form his own business. Undaunted by statistics that show that nine out of ten startups fail, Ben dug into solar, determined to succeed. He's still paranoid, and sites an author who wrote that "only the paranoid survive." The key is to always be on the look-out for what can go wrong and to plan for it. Ted asks Ben about "the solar-coaster"... a term that Ben dismisses strongly: "I hate that term. It suggests that one has no control." Ted digs in given the recent and major blow to residential installations: "What about the loss of the residential investment tax credit?" Ben points to two factors: Fifteen years ago, when he started Xero, it cost twice as much to install as it does today, and that value in avoided utility costs then was half or less than it is today. His view is clear that we don't need tax credits, that solar is still a good deal without tax credits and utility incentives. Ben discusses his business philosophy and operations. He believes in fair prices for suppliers, employees, and for customers. Too often customers are focused on the first cost of solar, rather than its long-term savings. Ben notes that choosing the lowest cost solar company may be the most expensive decision one ever makes. Charging a fair price gives Xero the ability to provide strong levels of customer service and support for the lifetime of the systems installed. Xero spends little on marketing its services. The best advocates are customers pleased with the services they receive, says Ben. Ben wants Xero to have a potent impact... "to help people we touch." This starts with employees. His staff are grateful of his priorities... nurturing marriages, strong families, celebrating babies and home-buying. Leading his staff, Ben volunteers and teaches them about the fulfillment attained by giving. His mother taught him that this world is made up of takers and givers. The takers will never be satisfied, they always want more. "Those that give are blessed with so much more... givers have full hearts."  The conversation includes a discussion of the future integration of our cars with our homes. Ben has been tracking VGI, vehicle grid integration, for years. "It's a great idea as our cars sit idle 95% of the time." While not sure of its timing -- "it seems like it's been the technology of tomorrow for a long time" -- his passion for efficient utilization of resources - in this case batteries -- causes him to be excited about VGI, flattening utility load profiles and the duck curve, and optimizing the grid to drive down power costs for us all.  Xero is future proofing its solar projects for the VGI future.

    37 min
  3. David Kilzer - The Future with AI-Powered Humanoid Robotics

    16 MAR

    David Kilzer - The Future with AI-Powered Humanoid Robotics

    According to David Kilzer, the fusion of artificial intelligence (AI) and robotics is the biggest leap for mankind since fire! David has seen dramatic evolution in automation in his 50-year career... influenced by the rise of personal computers, the internet, smart phones, and now AI. He believes that AI-power humanoid robots are a huge game changer, and one that will increase the quality of life for us all.  Imagine waking in the morning and having your coffee made to perfectly suit your taste. Imagine a humanoid robot playing chess with grandpa, or teaching the kids algebra, or folding the laundry or mowing the lawn or blending margaritas! The applications for robots are widespread... from household functions to nursing homes to factories, schools, medicine, and more. They can deliver vaccines in quarantine zones... and can readily access all the world's information. David highlights the future of open-sourced robots... whereby a robot in Japan learns to make sushi rolls, and this skill is uploaded to the cloud and then available for robots on the same platform worldwide. We may all have robots serving us, loaded up with apps for various tasks! David's company, Strategic Transformation Advisors helps industries tap the great potentials for automation. He is currently working on a major facility in Oregon, where three kinds of robots will be at work... none requiring any space conditioning at all. Robots can work 24*7; they need no breaks or benefits. They are tireless and can do heavy lifting, and can boost productivity, proficiency, and safety. And as more and more automation is developed, costs will fall... only begetting more automation with greater functionality. There will be adjustments in the transition toward greater and greater automation. Job losses are top of mind, notes David. Goldman Sachs reports that 6 - 7% of the American workforce has already been displaced by AI. Amazon laid off 14,000 workers last year and expects to lay off 30,000 by the end of this year. The implications for jobs are huge... with automation replacing not just manual tasks... but all manner of technical services such as coding, paralegal reviews, and engineering.  The conversation shifts into income tax losses as workers are replaced with machines. David imagines that mechanisms will be needed to address this loss. Should AI be taxed? Should robot leases be taxed? While David offers no solutions, he suggests that clever new means of developing revenues to support government functions may well be needed. He points to Norway's sovereign wealth fund that provides public benefit from oil and gas resources as a model mechanism. How can the abundance that will be created by AI and humanoid robotics be shared for the benefit of all? The conversation ends with David's bold predictions: AI-power robotics will be prevalent in industry this decade, and will likely be ubiquitous in homes in the 2030s. The pace of automation, and highly intelligent automation, is nothing short of fantastic.

    32 min
  4. Ebenezar Wikina -- Sustainability Policy Shapers in Rivers State, Nigeria

    9 MAR

    Ebenezar Wikina -- Sustainability Policy Shapers in Rivers State, Nigeria

    Ebenezar Wikina lives in Rivers State, Nigeria. His father's love of books and magazines coupled with his early career in journalism are the roots of his thirst for learning and his dedication to reform government policies. His passion is taking national, long-term goals and bringing them to success in local governments... the six Nigerian states and their subregions. This, he believes, is where change takes root. He formed Policy Shapers to empower young people with knowledge, skills, and tools to engage in public policy. River States is one of six states in Nigeria. Formed by the Niger River delta, "it is warm there, like Florida," explains Ebenezar. The 11,100-square mile state is home to nine million people. Less than 40% have access to electricity. Right now, given major national grid problems, less than 20% of the population has power and their are routine power disruptions to hospitals, hotels, and the entire community. Many schools have no power at all.  Ebenezar explains how he formed Policy Shapers and how he coalesced and facilitated diverse interest groups. Led by youth, Policy Shapers is inclusive of all ages, of women, and sensitive to the needs of people with disabilities. Participants and topical experts were brought together with WhatsApp, Zoom, and other social media platforms. They raised awareness and have used "hack-a-thons" to delve deeply into specific issues. Ebenezar and his colleagues brought thousands of voices together, surveying them on the most pressing problems facing the state and nation and the African continent. They suggested solutions. Together they began to craft River States' long-term sustainability plan... called Rivers 2050 Vision. In the discussion, Ebenezar focuses on five factors that will profoundly affect River States' future. The first is energy and the need to make power ubiquitous and to transform the hydrocarbon energy to renewables. The region has rich oil and gas reserves, that are sold off and that have polluted rivers there to the point where people cannot fish. Rivers State is rich in wind coming off the Atlantic Ocean, hydropower, and solar. Tapping into these resources and making structural changes, like not taxing solar panels, will help to spur this transition. Second is global climate change, that he reports is quite well known given the internet and widespread use of cell phones. Its impacts are certainly being felt in River States... events such as extreme heat waves and flooding. What can his generation do to shift from hydrocarbons to renewables? Can they promote agriculture and the development of renewables to shore up the economy as oil and gas revenues recede? Third is population, expected to rise 400,000 people per year. Ebenezar notes that River States is a religious community but that family planning is important there. To accommodate increased population and the fourth major planning element -- sea level rise -- River States needs housing. Policy Shapers promotes creative architectural solutions such as getting back to building on water using floating homes and businesses, now using more advanced building materials and sanitation.  The fifth factor that Ebenezar highlights is AI and the workforce that kids like his own son will have to adapt to when they reach the workforce. Ebenezar notes the pace of AI's penetration and how many jobs have already been lost, and how many more will be lost in the planning timeframe. Clearly, Rivers State will have to adapt. He makes strong statements about teaching youth critical thinking, creativity, and emotional intelligence. For schools, he suggests that there is a need for new curriculum, based on what AI can do and what it cannot do.

    34 min
  5. Ben Airth -- Making Residential Solar Work

    2 MAR

    Ben Airth -- Making Residential Solar Work

    Ben Airth is the Policy Director for Freedom Forever, the largest residential solar company in the country. Freedom Forever installs solar systems in 30 states plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. For Freedom Forever's management, Ben tracks state regulations, state legislation, and federal policies to guide program development and sales. The conversation begins with a discussion of the fall-off of the Internal Revenue Service 25D investment tax credit for solar... an issue for residential solar companies nationwide. Ben makes the case that there are solutions such as prepaid leases that allow for commercial ownership of solar systems on homes, and that the commercial tax credit is still in place. To get this 48E tax credit, the issue is ownership. Commercially owned systems can be on residential or commercial properties. In fact, given the bonus credits possible for commercial installations, homeowners might even see a better than 30% value through this pathway. Ted brings the discussion back to California and to Net Billing, California's regulatory policy. While a blow to the solar industry in California, Ben suggests that it may well be a good thing in the long run as it has caused consumers to add batteries to their systems. This allows consumers to self-consume solar power and to realize each solar kilowatt-hour's retail energy cost value. Ted asks about which states provide the most value to homeowners interested in solar: Ben notes that California is the top of the list given its high power prices. The Illinois Shines program has an enhanced value stack for solar, providing homeowners there with the upfront value of Renewable Energy Credits that solar will generate. Maine is a small market but one with attractive consumer economics. Puerto Rico is also a leader for residential solar and storage given hurricanes and the great value of resilience for homeowners there. Texas's deregulated electricity market allows for virtual power plants, another revenue stream and effective means of amortizing the upfront cost of solar. Texas has also enabled third-party permitting and inspections, addressing these bottlenecks in residential installations and shortening installation times. Ted then asks about the 20 states that Freedom Forever does not serve: In some cases, Ben explains that these are nascent markets that have prematurely adopted California's net billing as a precedent, well before any form of solar saturation and without adequately priming the solar market. States such as Idaho assigned fixed fees that destroyed the economics of consumer-owned solar. Building on the discussion of virtual power plants and their promise for the future, the discussion shifts to the potential for vehicle-to-grid programs and the integration of e-mobility with our electric utilities. Ben notes that this, like solar and storage, has been inhibited by the One Big Beautiful Bill, but is still promising. He states the need for effective rates and tariffs to make these strategies viable for utilities as well as consumers. The conversation ends with a discussion of what utilities call "the cost shift" related to distributed generation, and in this case residential solar. Ben discusses the unusually large amount of consumer investments in solar, a public resource that has helped to build the utility infrastructure. While the utility position is this has hurt other consumers with no solar, Ben calls it a mind set. The problem is not technical -- which can be overcome -- but instead a mind set that overlooks the great value of consumer investments that utilities do not have to make. The key is to find win-win solutions that benefit both consumers and utilities charged with providing reliable and affordable power.

    33 min
  6. Dr. Bonnie Nixon - Decarbonizing the Long Beach Container Terminal

    23 FEB

    Dr. Bonnie Nixon - Decarbonizing the Long Beach Container Terminal

    Dr. Bonnie Nixon is the Sustainability Director for the Long Beach Container Terminal (LBCT), one of the world's busiest and greenest ports. The terminal handles 3.5 million, 20-foot containers annually. Its 4,200 foot long wharf can unload three of the largest container ships in the world at once. Air quality is an issue that drives Bonnie. She grew up in an industrial community in Northern New Jersey and knows painfully well the devastating impacts of bad air on human health. The San Pedro port complex receives 40% of all goods entering the United States. Bonnie explains that ports have five major sources of emissions: ships, short and long-haul drayage trucks, cargo-handling equipment, locomotives, and tugs. The result is that the communities surrounding LBCT have suffered from some of the worst air quality in the country.  LBCT has addressed this head on. When ships come to its wharf, they receive shore power and turn off their engines which run with dirty bunker fuel. The Port's 93 cranes work without emissions as do the 102 automated electric transport vehicles that are guided by sensors embedded in the concrete that move containers on site. The Port is home to the largest battery exchange buildings in the world that automatically exchange batteries in 5 - 8 minutes. In 2030 Bonnie completed a net zero strategy for LBCT with a $250 million price tag. So far, she has raised $130 million of this to drive down Scope 1 (onsite combustion) and Scope 2 (purchased electricity) emissions. The Port has reduced Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 85 - 90%. Thanks to monetizing Low Carbon Fuel Standard credits, LBCT has been able to purchase offsets for Scope 3 emissions related to ships, trucks, and trains run by its vendors.  Bonnie is now working to clean up the Port's 270 rolling stock vehicles -- tractors, forklifts, trucks, buses, sweepers, etc. She is working with shipping lines to promote e-methanol to power the ships that come to and from Long Beach to achieve net zero status at the Port in time for the Los Angeles Olympics. She is also focused on resiliency strategies. Her quest is to demonstrate that even massive industrial complexes like LBCT can fully decarbonize their operations.

    35 min
  7. Nigel Mason - The Rescue and Care of Sumatran Elephants

    16 FEB

    Nigel Mason - The Rescue and Care of Sumatran Elephants

    After growing up in England and Egypt, and a 25-year stint in Australia, Nigel Mason moved to Bali, Indonesia. There he met his wife, they ran a restaurant and a rafting company, and became highly concerned about the plight and extinction of Sumatran Elephants. Visiting Sumatra, seeing the gross attack on its forests, the dire consequences of deforestation for palm oil that displaced elephants, orangutans, tigers, monkeys, and rhinos, Nigel and his wife decided to take action. Over three trips and a seven-year period, they rescued 27 elephants and created an elephant park in Taro, Bali. Ted asks Nigel about moving the herd to Bali, a 1,700-kilometer voyage over land and sea. Nigel explains that yes, it was very challenging, particularly getting enough food and water to sustain the elephants for the five-day trip. Elephants consumer 250 kilos of food a day... plus lots of water, the latter made hugely challenging during one trip during an intense drought in Java. But the transport was successful, and the elephants that would have lived only 3 - 7 years in captivity in Sumatra, now had a special park in Bali with all the food and drink and care that they needed to live for 50 - 60 years. Today there are less than 1,000 Sumatran Elephants in the wild. Nigel describes the care that his herd of elephants get. Elephants tend to succumb to death in many cases due to problems with their feet. Nigel devised a special material for the paths that they walk that is cooler than concrete yet with enough grit to properly scale back the elephants' nails and to maintain the health of their feet. Each elephant has a "mahout," a "carer," who looks after the elephant from morning to night... bathing it, feeding it, and giving it the interaction with which they thrive. Since opening the park in 1997, six babies have been born and raised there too. The park is proud of having met the strict, 200+ standards of the Asian Captive Elephants Standards, being certified for over ten years. Despite Nigel's good rescue deed, for the past few months the park has been embroiled in a major controversy with animal rights groups that claimed that elephants in Indonesia have been subject to cruel behavior. The groups took particular exception to the practice of riding elephants. While Nigel made clear the need for elephants to get sufficient exercise -- they normally walk 20 kilometers a day, versus 7 - 8 km in the park -- and the relative light weight of the riders, the animal rights groups would hear nothing of it. Then the Indonesian government suddenly banned riding elephants outright causing the number of visitors to the park to plummet from 400 to 40 a day. Nigel and his family have had to subsidize the park -- which employs nearly 200 locals -- to care for and feed the elephant herd. The park continues to be supported by Nigel and his family with only the fees paid by park visitors. The park gets no government funding. Now the challenge continues... finding new ways to bring in visitors without the popular riding. Visitors now walk the elephants, and wash them, and swim with them. Visitors also enjoy the lush habitat and the park's restaurant. Nigel, his wife, and two sons remain dedicated to the park. Nigel makes clear that they will carry on and will find new ways to care for the elephants and to welcome visitors to this unique experience. If and when you're in Bali, please make sure to visit the Mason Elephant Park.

    34 min
  8. Richard Savoie -- Super-Efficient Delivery Logistics

    9 FEB

    Richard Savoie -- Super-Efficient Delivery Logistics

    Richard Savoie is the CoFounder and CEO of Adiona Tech, a high-tech logistics company that helps suppliers of both B2B and B2C -- business and consumer services -- optimize the efficiency of their delivery fleets. Richard's passion for and contribution to sustainability is pronounced. Since 2021, his firm has enabled delivery fleet operators to save millions of miles of travel, hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel, and 7.2 million kilograms of carbon dioxide from being released into the atmosphere. Using machine learning, and artificial intelligence, Adiona Tech optimizes the efficiency of delivery fleets in real time, reducing the number of trucks and clarifying delivery times. Richard was born and raised in New Hampshire. After studying at Northeastern University in Boston, Richard and his wife moved to Australia where he worked for a number of years in medical device engineering. Then Richard flexed his entrepreneurial side... ultimately cofounding Adiona Tech with a partner who specializes in optimization and computer science. They saw massive inefficiencies in the delivery supply chain and built software address this. Their first client was CocaCola.  Today Adiona Tech has clients throughout Australia, New Zealand, in parts of Southeast Asia, and pilot programs in the United States. He notes that Australia Post... one of the world's largest postal distributors... is a key client that Adiona Tech helped to greatly increase the efficiency of its operations. In fact, Adiona Tech helped it to cut its fleet size, increase its delivery services, while providing a 100x return on the cost of the delivery optimization. The conversation hits on several facets of the supply chain, notably the last mile. Traditionally and on average, trucks serving the last mile have been only 60% full. Using Adiona Tech's services, delivery trucks can be 80-90% full, fleets can be smaller, and tremendous financial and environmental gains can be realized.  Adiona Tech starts with its focus on both the supply side -- where products originate -- and the demand side, where they are delivered to businesses and consumers. Factors and optimization parameters considered include cargo size, weight, and volume; whether the products are palletized or not, the types of fleet vehicles used and more. Routes vary based on demands and on actual traffic patterns through what Richard calls "dynamic routing." The conversation shifts to the rise and potential for electric vehicles, noting range considerations that alter routes, but also the efficiency of EVs and their promise to further increase the efficiency and decarbonization of logistics. Autonomous vehicles are discussed, with Richard explaining the necessary orchestration of three technologies: AI, autonomous vehicles, and robotics. We are not there yet, but Richard anticipates the effective convergence of these in the next ten years... further enhancing the efficiency of delivery services. These advances will continue to boost Adiona Tech's outsized beneficial environmental impact.

    31 min

About

Flanigan's Eco-Logic, hosted by Ted Flanigan, provides cutting-edge information and insights in sustainability and the clean energy space. Episodes address alternative energy -- featuring solar, storage, microgrids, vehicle grid integration, and energy access. In addition, the podcast covers resources issues -- like water and food issues, and even slow fashion. Flanigan’s enthusiasm, vast experience, and deep network in the energy and environmental arena are palpable as he brings exciting and encouraging green developments to the fore, interviewing and engaging leading policy makers and practitioners throughout the United States and in many countries around the world.

You Might Also Like