A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. For this episode of “Obbligato,” a show dedicated to AAPI classical musicians, composers, and scholars, host Isabel Li interviews Indian American composer Reena Esmail, who blends Hindustani musical themes with western classical compositional styles. Music in this episode: – This Love Between Us “Prayers for Unity”: II. [Sikhism] – Lacrimosa (from Malhaar: a Requiem for Water) – Terra infirma: IV. roaming the ghost forest Transcript Isabel Li: I’m Isabel Li, here for a new edition of “Obbligato,” which explores the AAPI community in the classical music world. Today, we’re featuring the Indian American composer Reena Esmail and her unique compositions that blend Hindustani music with Western classical styles and how she writes music about religion, spirituality, and even environmentalism. Welcome, Reena, to Apex Express. Reena Esmail: Hey! It’s so great to be here. IL: My first question for you is one that’s probably a little bit loaded, but how do you identify and what’s your story? RE: I don’t know, it’s interesting because I work in many different situations, and I think I always identify as the thing that isn’t whatever the dominant situation is that I work in. Right? So it’s like when I’m in America, I identify as an Indian American. When I’m in India, I identify as an American. When I’m working in Western classical music, I’m the person who knows stuff about Hindustani music. When I’m working in Hindustani music, I’m the person who knows stuff about Western music. So really. Actually, I think of identity not as a fixed thing, but as how you, um, delineate yourself, how you’re unique in the situation you’re in. You know, it’s interesting because especially in the case of Asian Americans, Asia is such a broad thing, right? There are so many more East Asians in Western classical music than there are South Asians. Certainly in my generation. You know, I was surrounded by Chinese, Korean, some Japanese people who were always, you know, playing the piano when I was playing the piano. And, um, there really was not many other Indian people. And, you know, I’ll, I’ll actually say that even within India, um, you know, if you look at me in America, I’m just Indian. If you look at me in India, I have a very unusual lineage, which is that my dad is from the region of Gujarat and his family is Muslim. My mom is from the region of Goa and her family is Catholic. And so because of that, when I was expressing interest in music, My mom was the one who had more of kind of a musical knowledge in her family, even though there’s no professional musicians in her family. So because Goa was colonized by Portugal, there is this element of Western classical music in Goan culture. And so because of that, my mom was like, oh, let’s give her guitar lessons, let’s give her piano lessons. And so that’s how I landed up in Western classical music as opposed to doing Indian classical music. Um, so yeah, I kind of went through the Western classical scene. I was very interested in being a pianist. And, you know, I’m glad that I’m glad I’m a failed pianist in all honesty, because I see what my colleagues who are real, you know, professional pianists have to go through. And I just don’t think I have what it takes to do that. It’s really an intense job. Um, but when I was in high school, um, one of my theory teachers kind of said, hey, you know, you might be a composer. It seems like you think like a composer thinks, why don’t you try composing and why don’t you try writing things down? and one thing led to another. And basically a year and a half to two years after studying, I got one of a very few spots in the undergrad program in composition at Juilliard. And that was a point where my parents kind of said, okay, you know, we don’t know a lot about the music world, but it seems like if she got into Juilliard, she’s probably like somewhat good at this. Maybe we should kind of see how this goes. And, you know, from there on, I pursued composition. IL: And when and why did you start to study Indian classical music, which is a big element in your compositions now? RE: Yeah, absolutely. So I think it’s interesting because in every generation, I’ve seen so much change in how the diaspora views itself. And certainly when I was growing up, you know, I know this is hard to believe, but there were not if you were an Indian going to school, you were kind of the only one. If you were an Indian music, you were kind of the only one. So there was this element where when I went to Juilliard, um, there were I to my knowledge, two Indians in the entire school, me and an actress who had actually come from Calcutta. And so people were trying to, you know, make conversation with me and they’d be like, well, you know, do you do stuff with Indian classical music? And I would just be like, no, I’m trying so hard to even write music for orchestra and, you know, string quartet and all the things that my peers are trying to do. Like, is that not enough? Because I’m Indian, I also have to be doing all this other stuff. And so I resisted it for a long time because I was just trying so hard to do one thing well. But then, you know, I think what, what made me kind of unique is that, you know, I stood out, I was Indian and then, you know, when I was young, that felt really cool. The older I got, the more I thought, well, you know, I know I’m from this culture that has incredible music and I know it when I hear it, I know nothing about it, and maybe I should actually pursue it. And so I really separately kind of started meeting Indian musicians who lived in New York, and I would just ask them questions, and I got to know them. And I realized that while we didn’t share a type of music, we did share a culture and we did share a love of music because it is interesting that the culture of Indian classical music is actually quite similar to the culture of Western classical music. You know, you study with a teacher over a really long period of time. You’re practicing for hours a day. The kind of personality that would love Western classical music would also love Indian classical music. And so I just made friends with some of these Indian classical musicians. And of course, being a composer, I thought, why don’t I put them in my music? You know, how do I do that? And so it was really just curiosity that led me down that path. And for many years, that path was very separate. Because again, I know it’s very hard to believe now, but there was a time where people really did not want these cultures to be combined, and people just really looked down on cultures that were not, you know, the dominant Western European classical culture. And so I kept them really separate. And even when I started combining them, people were like, oh, that’s sweet. She does stuff with Indian music, you know? And it was really not taken seriously. It’s only really in the last decade that people have been embracing other musical cultures. And I mean, how glad I am that that’s happening. But it was very, very hard fought and very separate at first. IL: And on that note, how do you navigate the unique challenges of composing with both these cultures in mind, but also being situated in the United States, where people come from all different backgrounds? And how do you as a composer approach that in this context? RE: I mean, I think it’s interesting because first of all, I am musically bilingual now, so I can. I went to India, I studied Indian classical music. Seriously. I still work with Indian classical musicians very closely. And so, you know, I can be working on a piece that has Indian classical musicians in it, and I can turn to them and immediately speak in their language and their musical language. And then I can turn to the Western musicians and speak in their musical language. So every single piece I write, especially the ones that involve Indian classical musicians. There is a way through those pieces, both through the Western lens and through the Indian lens. And so I think I’m working in a position where I actually do know how to speak both those languages. And when you do speak both those languages, you know, just the way that if you speak any two, you know, verbal languages, you would know that there are sounds that are cognates. And so you’re like, oh, I say the sound. So maybe and it means one thing in one culture and one thing in another culture. But you know that that sound is the same. And so with musical language, you can actually use those musical cognates to connect across cultures by saying, just listen for this thing. And when you listen for this thing, interpret it through the lens of your own culture. So that’s certainly how I work. But, you know, I mean, again, I want to say that’s not the only way to work. I don’t think that you have to be, you know, I mean, again, there’s probably most people who are listening to this probably have one musical culture and then maybe they know much less about the other musical culture. That is also fine. You know, you don’t need to be an expert in order to want to explore and, and love a thing that’s just, you know, where I am because it’s the, the center of my musical practice. IL: Well, let’s hear a selection from Reena Esmail’s oratorio, “This Love Between Us.” This is the second movement titled Sikhism. David Hill conducts Juilliard415 with the Yale Schola Cantorum. [MUSIC: This Love Between Us “Prayers for Unity”: II. Sikhism] IL: That was Sikhism, the second movement from the oratorio This Love Between Us by Reena Esmail, who is here in conversation with me today on KPFA for APEX Express. Somet
