Jacinda Ardern is a history-maker. As Prime Minister of New Zealand at 37, she became only the second woman in the world to give birth while in office. But it was her leadership style that defined her time at the top, leading with empathy and kindness in the face of back-to-back tragedies, and showing the strength of coming together. From growing up in small-town New Zealand singing country and western duets with her sister at the local community hall, to raging to Smashing Pumpkins in her first car with a discman plugged into the cassette deck, Ardern's musical taste has always been eclectic and deeply personal. She's the teenager who loved alternative music and heavy metal while being a dedicated student rep raised in the Mormon faith, and the world leader who chose a drum and bass track as her walk-on song. Her career path was never straightforward. She ran from the possibility of becoming a politician, buying a one-way ticket to New York to escape the suggestion she should run for office. But a sense of responsibility (what she calls her "oversized sense of duty"), kept pulling her back. In 2017, everything changed in a single year: a by-election, deputy leadership, then the top job itself, all while secretly pregnant. She led her country through the Christchurch mosque shootings, the Whakaari White Island eruption, and a global pandemic, all while insisting that being human is not a weakness. This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe at the Australian Chamber Orchestra's studios on Sydney Harbour. Jacinda caught the ferry to the location, rolling up without any entourage, proving just how down-to-earth she is. She was candid, emotional, and generous in exploring her extraordinary life across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: optimism as a courageous act, and the enduring power of being useful. Jacinda Ardern's song choices: Smashing Pumpkins - 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'Fat Freddy's Drop - 'Wandering Eye'Cat Stevens - 'Peace Train'The Mountain Goats - 'This Year'Shapeshifter - 'Stars'00:00 Introduction: Jacinda Ardern Made History 00:54 "They Are Us": Leading with Empathy and Kindness 01:04 Filming Take 5 with a Former PM 01:56 Extended Podcast Edit: The Most Eclectic Song List of the Season 02:02 Childhood in Rural New Zealand: The Record Player at Home 02:26 Roy Orbison, ABBA, and Parents' "Slightly Different Era" Taste 03:02 The Country and Western Club: Every Friday Night at the Community Hall 03:26 Singing Duets with Sister Louise: "She's the One Holding the Microphone" 04:03 "Don't It Make My Brown Eyes Blue" and the Christmas Special 04:58 Sister's Pop vs. Her Alternative: Cypress Hill, Rage Against the Machine 05:11 Smashing Pumpkins: 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings' 05:53 Growing Up in Morrinsville: Dairy Farms and $20 a Week at the Fish and Chip Shop 06:02 The Discman in the Car: Cassette Adapters and Judder Bars 06:39 The Multi-Change CD Player: "The Most Exciting Thing" 07:02 The Walkman and Sister Louise: "I've Never Gotten Over It" 07:44 Playing Every CD to Death: "You Valued Every One" 08:01 Teenage Angst: Rage Against the Machine, Metallica, Pantera, Nine Inch Nails 08:21 Smashing Pumpkins: "Both the Lyrics That Spoke to Teenage Angst and Great Music" 08:52 Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness: A Double Album for the Multi-CD Player 09:15 "Despite All My Rage, I'm Still Just a Rat in a Cage" 09:29 An Earnest Teenager: Raised in Religion, Student Rep, Working Hard 10:13 Not a Headbanger: "My Mother Would've Taken Me to a Chiropractor" 10:44 Parents Respected Their Own Musical Taste and Belief Systems 11:26 Born in Hamilton, Then Murupara: First Observations of Poverty and Inequality 12:00 "A Place That Made Me Quite Political" 12:29 Writing the Book: How Do You End Up in Politics? 12:48 "All of It Contributes to How You Come to Be the Person You Are" 13:15 The Kinship Between Australia and New Zealand 13:44 Empathy and Awareness: Seeing What Affects People 14:17 Father the Policeman: "Power as a Responsibility" 14:40 "Being Useful Is a Driving Force" 15:04 Fat Freddy's Drop: 'Wandering Eye' 15:13 Moving to Wellington in the Early 2000s 15:46 Sworn In as PM: Fat Freddy's Drop Playing on Parliament Steps 16:08 Carpooling on a Bus Instead of Crown Cars 16:33 "Sitting at the Base of the Steps, Just Playing for Us" 17:00 A Full Circle Moment: Unexpected PM, Secretly Pregnant 18:29 First Job in Parliament: Interning in Wellington 18:57 "I Couldn't Possibly Be a Politician" 19:36 People Identifying the Leader in Her Before She Did 20:22 The Beehive: Flatting and a Normal Life in Her 20s 21:06 Still a Practicing Mormon in Her Early 20s 21:25 Cognitive Dissonance: Progressive Politics and the Church 21:50 Campaigning for Equality on Saturday, Church on Sunday 22:02 Leaving the Church: "Something Had to Give" 23:08 Running from Politics: A One-Way Ticket to New York 23:36 London, Then Coming Back to New Zealand 23:55 "Two Dueling Wolves": Imposter Syndrome vs. Responsibility 24:18 Putting Herself Forward: "Turns Out I Was Wrong" 24:42 2017: Everything Happened in One Year 24:47 By-Election, Deputy Leader, Then Leader Nominated 25:28 Waiting for Winston Peters: Finding Out on the 6pm News 25:39 Secretly Pregnant During Coalition Negotiations 27:27 Malcolm Turnbull Calling to Congratulate 27:49 Cat Stevens: 'Peace Train' 28:11 Mrs. Bean's Class: Bursting Into Tears as a Child 28:55 Yusuf Islam Coming to New Zealand After the March 15 Terror Attack 29:30 Peace Train at the Memorial Service: "A Song of Hope in Hard Times" 30:00 Feeling the Same Way as a Child and as an Adult 31:18 Has Hope Always Led You Through Your Life? 31:35 Ernest Shackleton: "Optimism Is True Moral Courage" 32:10 Actively Choosing to Be an Optimistic Person 33:13 The Christchurch Mosque Shootings: Finding Out in Bits 34:01 Frustration and Anger: "A Manifesto of Hate" 34:47 "Simply a Human Response": Why Emotion Isn't Weakness 35:56 Learning from the Muslim Community: "They Opened Their Arms" 37:25 "A Sadness I'll Carry for the Rest of My Life" 37:42 Processing Grief: "I'll Never Set That Down" 38:21 The Mountain Goats: 'This Year' 38:39 The Song of the Year Tradition 39:18 "I Am Gonna Make It Through This Year If It Kills Me" 40:09 Keeping the Faith in Opposition: Purpose and Team Cohesion 41:19 Christchurch, Whakaari, COVID: "It Was Relentless" 42:52 Car Time Was Solo Time: Losing That as Prime Minister 44:04 Elton John's "Still Standing" and the Earthquake on Live TV 44:56 "The Universe Has to Let Up at Some Point" 45:02 Knowing It Was Time to Go 45:43 "Nothing Left in the Tank" 46:03 Not "Spending More Time With Family": The Language of Leaving 46:54 "I Am Human. Politicians Are Human." 47:33 The Emotional Announcement: "Got the Words Out in the End" 47:36 That Night After Stepping Down 48:11 Eventually Feeling Free: "It Takes a While" 49:04 "You Can Be in Politics and Also Be Kind" 49:10 Shapeshifter: 'Stars' 49:33 Drum and Bass Walk-On Song at the Labour Party Conference 50:46 Bonding with Clarke Over Shapeshifter 51:17 Seeing Shapeshifter During COVID New Year's: Joy and Responsibility 52:06 The Coffee Date with Clarke: Surprising Each Other 53:17 The Prime Minister Documentary: "We're Very Normal People" 54:55 Adapting the Memoir for Young Adults 56:10 "15-Year-Old Jacinda Would Be Very Surprised. But I Think She'd Be Proud." 56:24 Life in Sydney: Climate Change, AI Safety, and Empathetic Leadership 57:32 Making a Playlist for Her Niece: "I'm Absolutely Stuck in the 1990s" 57:37 Thank You and Goodbye 58:29 Zan's Wrap-Up: The Only World Leader with Drum and Bass as a Walk-On Song 58:44 Filmed at the ACO Studios on Sydney Harbour 59:10 Next Time: Lainey Wilson 59:55 Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now. Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe
