More Good Drinks - Industry Podcast

Tash McGill

NZ's home of beverage and bar chat from brand, bartenders, the best in the business alongside producers, distillers and the generally great humans that make More Good Drinks. www.moregooddrinks.com

  1. Stop the Copy & Paste, For True Innovation in Drinks

    2 hrs ago

    Stop the Copy & Paste, For True Innovation in Drinks

    Rethinking Innovation and Authenticity in the Drinks Industry with Mikey Ball Dive into a compelling conversation with Mikey Ball, a product development expert at Woodward Street Distillery, as we explore what genuine innovation really means in the drinks industry. Discover how ancient techniques, authenticity, and storytelling shape truly original products, and learn practical insights on navigating the balance between tradition and modernity. In this episode: The difference between copying techniques and building original flavours How ancient traditions inform innovative product development The importance of deep foundational knowledge and context Recognising the role of storytelling and narrative in product positioning Examples of misleading terms such as "ultrasonic distillation" Authenticity as a marker of genuine innovation Practical approaches for elevating industry standards and consumer experiences The parallels between product creation behind the bar and in distilleries How to embed culture, technique, and authenticity into branding and packaging Insights into navigating market demands and consumer perceptions Future-focused topics: water sourcing, mineral analysis, and regional identity Timestamps: 00:00 - Opening thoughts on what constitutes true innovation in drinks 02:26 - Mikey shares insights on building flavor through ancient techniques 03:35 - Deep dive into question everything approach in product development 05:03 - The pitfalls of superficial innovation and copycat culture 07:12 - Clarifying misleading terminology like ultrasonic distillation 09:12 - Authenticity versus superficial branding in industry claims 11:19 - The importance of understanding ingredients and processes 13:23 - The thin line between inspiration, learning, and recipe copying 16:35 - The ongoing nature of product refinement and consistency challenges 18:03 - Connecting product stories with consumer perceptions 20:04 - The importance of visual branding and market positioning 22:20 - Embracing continuous learning and innovation as a mindset 24:37 - The influence of tradition, culture, and regional identity 27:03 - The story behind Chi Chi Vodka and its approach to authenticity 30:36 - Navigating market demands and product differentiation 32:17 - The role of narrative in brand building and consumer connection 34:27 - How storytelling enhances product experience in hospitality 37:42 - The power of simplicity and core technique in a saturated market 40:49 - Envisioning a future where hospitality deeply values understanding 45:11 - Upcoming workshops on carbonation, liquids, and innovation tools 48:02 - Exploring water sourcing and mineral profiles in New Zealand Resources & Links: Woodward Street Distillery Chi Chi Vodka Connect with Mikey Ball: mikey@woodward-distillery.com Get full access to More Good Drinks at www.moregooddrinks.com/subscribe

    44 min
  2. Starting As You Mean To Go On - An Ardnamurchan Whisky Tale

    14 May

    Starting As You Mean To Go On - An Ardnamurchan Whisky Tale

    Twelve years in the middle of nowhere: Ardnamurchan Distillery sits on the farthest West Coast of Scotland, where everything has to be thought through with exacting detail. Connal Mackenzie has been Sales Director at Ardnamurchan and Adelphi for eight years. He was in the warehouse the fortnight they didn’t see daylight, picking the casks that became the inaugural single malt. He came through Christchurch last week, back to the country his daughter holds a passport in, back to Whisky Galore where he used to work before he went home to Scotland. We sat down at the Howff to talk about adventures in whisky. Ardnamurchan is four hours from Edinburgh. Four hours from Glasgow, four hours from Inverness. “Ardnamurchan is four hours from Ardnamurchan,” Connal says, because anyone who’s driven the single-track road out to the peninsula understands what exactly what the geography means and costs. But it also gives back in delightful ways. Lorries come and go on roads really better suited for sheep. Power, when it goes, doesn’t come back quickly. What the geography gives back is the freedom to start the way you intend to continue. Ardnamurchan started distilling in 2014, released their inaugural single malt in 2020 (listen for more shared trauma). We talk about pricing and structures for understanding earning trust with whisky lovers. Twelve years in, the things they decided early are the things that now look prescient. Solar in the warehouse, hydroelectric off the river, a Swiss biomass boiler that cost 1.2 million pounds and is quietly delivering a cost-per-litre of alcohol that’s, in Connal’s words, “maybe quite sharp” compared to the rest of the field during an oil crisis. He isn’t boasting but you can’t help noting that the ROI on a sustainability decision made for the right reasons in 2013 looks different in 2026. A clipboard person told them last year they could go off-grid if they wanted to. For a site Ardnamurchan’s size, that’s an extraordinary achievement. The blending team is made up of four or five noses across different backgrounds: a single Master Blender can be a brand asset, a face and a consistency of vision, and that’s a real thing. It’s also a narrow filter on what gets into a bottle. The committee model is less heroic but it produces whisky that passes the compounding demands of groiup assessment, which is what you want when you’re trying to become someone’s third bottle on the shelf after their favourite Islay and their favourite Speyside. That’s Connal’s stated ambition for the brand. The reliable Highland coastal dram that needs replacing when it runs out. We talk about cask provenance in one of the most interesting cask programmes currently operating. Most distillery sales directors, asked about cask provenance, will give you the line. Connal gave the actual breakdown. Around 75 to 80 per cent of fills are ex-bourbon, mostly from Old Forester, direct relationship. Sherry casks come direct from Jerez, one of the best suppliers plus a small bodega, bought in Spain and not (and this is the aside that earns its keep) imported via France, which apparently is a thing some distilleries now do because the maths works out and the geography evidently doesn’t matter to them. Paul Lanois Champagne casks, fifteen to twenty-five barriques a year, bought direct from the family. Port, Madeira, Mizunara, Tokaji, Mezcal. They know the cooperages and the people moving the wood, as much as possible. But we’re also in a long, gentle inflection where transparency to that degree isn’t something we talked about as aggressively twenty years ago. This matters because the new-distillery marketing playbook of the last decade has been to lean very hard on provenance language while quietly running the same broker calls everyone else runs. Ardnamurchan saying “we have direct relationships on the casks where we have direct relationships, and we don’t pretend on the ones where we don’t” is a more useful kind of transparency. Cask costs, while we’re here. Bourbon barrels peaked at 250 US dollars last year and Connal calls that frightening, rightly. The relief, eight years in, is that Ardnamurchan is now reaping the second-fill, third-fill, sometimes fourth-fill yields off the casks they bought in the early years. The 2020 balloon, and what it cost the industry to mistake it for growth If there’s a single argument worth carrying out of the conversation, this is it. Connal and the Adelphi team were in Christchurch for Dramfest in March 2020, then crossed to Australia. Cancelled cricket games, a phone call from the chairman, last flight out via Dubai, house-bound for two and a half months. Standard 2020. What happened next is what matters. Furlough money, locked-down consumers, bored, cashed-up. Every new release sold out instantly, anything new an instant seller, anything new an instant seller. The entire industry read those numbers as a category in ascent. It wasn’t. It was a balloon. The reasonable thing, and Connal’s word here is “potentially”, would have been to base next year’s gross-profit forecast on 2019, not on the spike. Plenty of brands didn’t. Plenty built capacity, built inventory, built marketing budgets and crowdfunding rounds against numbers that were never going to repeat. Then Brexit landed for the UK side. Then two wars affected barley pricing and freight. Then UK duty went up twice. Sure, the calculation shifts at different volumes and price points, and global premium-spirit demand isn’t dead. But for a lot of mid-range single malt brands trading on that 2020-21 hockey stick, the curve they’re now trying to explain to a board is the curve of a normal year against an abnormal comparable. That’s a different conversation than a downturn, it’s a correction. Ardnamurchan kept production flat. Same volume they made three years ago, same volume they made last year. The bet is that there’s a stock lull eight to ten years out and the boring decision to keep distilling through the wobble pays off then. Whether that’s right is unknowable. What’s defensible is that the call was made on what was actually happening in 2020, not on what the spreadsheet wanted to be true. Price discipline, in a category that’s lost its head about price Forty-five pounds in 2020. Two and a half UK duty increases later, still under fifty quid. Ninety-nine dollars on the shelf at Whisky Galore. No relabelling, no relaunching, no “now with extra story” repricing. For a category that has spent five years aggressively premium-positioning everything in sight, including a lot of nine-year-old single cask releases priced like they’re surely crafted from solid gold, Ardnamurchan’s pricing discipline is … disciplined. The proposition is liquid to dollar. The bet is that a drinker who buys the bottle at a reasonable price three times comes back for the cask-strength, comes back for the Tokaji release, comes back for the Mezcal cask when it lands. Loyalty is built on the second purchase, not the first. Most of the loud premium-launch playbook of the last few years has been built on the opposite assumption. Extract margin on the first bottle because there might not be a second. The honest answer is what Ardnamurchan has done, which is run the core range honestly and let the limited releases (quarterly, 8,500 bottles across 48 markets, gone fast) do the storytelling. What he’s drinking Ardnamurchan Cask Strength, when he reaches for his own stuff. The new Tokaji, which has “real funkiness to it” and lands here in the next couple of months. And outside whisky, because anyone who works whisky knows you don’t always pour whisky on a Friday, a Negroni with Old Raj Navy Strength gin from Cadenhead’s at 55.4 per cent, because if you’re making a Negroni you may as well really make one. Listen to the whole chat for a solid dose of whisky business, banter and Scottish brogue. Get full access to More Good Drinks at www.moregooddrinks.com/subscribe

    33 min
  3. Woven Whisky Meets The Moment

    8 May

    Woven Whisky Meets The Moment

    Nick Ravenhall doesn’t think he’s a New Zealand whisky maker. He’ll tell you that himself, in the same breath he uses to name-check Mat or Rach Thomson, Mark and Ro on Waiheke, and a list of others he’s careful not to leave out. But he is one of three ‘washed-up bartenders’ collecting awards and redefining the playing field in New World whisky. Woven Whisky landed back in New Zealand last month — second time around, but this in 700ml bottles. We sat down at the tail end of his trip home to talk about what’s actually happening underneath the hood and making blended whisky such an exciting place to make whisky right now: the structural argument that makes blending — proper, contemporary, world-spanning blending — the format that meets the moment the industry is in. Because whisky is genuinely strange right now. “There was an upswing in the purchasing of bottles,” Ravenhall says of the bubble, “but I don’t think there was the upswing in consumption to keep consuming all the extra bottles that people were buying.” Somewhere around 2012, Scotch — and then much of new world whisky riding the same wave — started being a thing you bought, collected and talked avbout more than you drank it. Cask releases stacked on cask releases. Small batches stacked on small batches. New releases every month, each one as collectable as the last. China running hot on Western premiumisation. Then COVID struck, where everyone went home and bought the bottles they’d been meaning to try, just to pass the time. And the whisky makers, beholden to forecasts built on all of that purchasing, kept making. What no one had clean data on was whether any of it was being drunk. Sales reports showed movement. You know I talk about this a lot. Depletion reports — the actual re-orders, the rotation through retail, the second and third bottle bought by the same household — were a different story. “All you have to do is see a new release and just scroll down the commentary,” Ravenhall says, on where customers landed. “They’re like, not another blah, blah, blah, blah.” The current correction isn’t really a whisky problem but there’s definitely a trust problem with whisky pricing among enthusiasts. Value for dollar dram videos flood YouTube. Customers haven’t stopped drinking. They haven’t even stopped seeking out the unicorn bottles, but the promise on the label has to land in the glass. Which is where Woven, offers an incredibly well-timed offer to the market. “As a blender,” Ravenhall says, “we have the extreme privilege of not being distillers.” A distiller wanting to try something has to make it, fill a cask, and wait three years minimum, six or seven before the liquid does what they hoped. A blender can buy something today and put it in a glass tomorrow. No three-year capital lockup on every experiment and no forecast built on whisky futures, in a world where value continually goes up. What that unlocks, when you do it well, is a flavour proposition no single distillery can offer. Pure Malt, the blend Ravenhall and I tasted through, takes a Sherry-led Speyside heart and layers it with single malts from Starward in Australia, Kavalan in Taiwan, Paul John in India. “If you as a customer wanted to experience those three other things, you’re going to be buying three other bottles at north of $100. Are you going to do that? Not ever.” For a while now, blends got left on the bottom shelf at the UK’s Tesco for £18, while every distiller and their distributor chased the cask-strength single malt premium. The category that is actually solved a price-and-discovery problem for the modern customer was the category nobody was really paying attention to. Woven came into being in the gap. Sure, three washed-up bartenders — Nick’s words, not mine — turning up to blend at the level Scotch holds blenders to is a high bar. The first couple of years, he says, were just figuring out whether it could work at all. The next couple were realising they had to change how it worked. They’re five years in. Operationally, they now know how to land a price point on the shelf the customer is happy to pay, and then they over-deliver on experience. They’ve moved from single blended expressions to stamping their confidence and hard-won customer trust into a core range. “It’s just a f*****g simple equation,” Ravenhall says. “Respect your customer. Put a price on the shelf they’re happy to pay. Make sure you keep your whisky promise. Make something that surprises and delights them.” Ravenhall is candid that the rules-and-regulations approach Scotch has used to police itself for two centuries — the SWA, the sensory panels, the Appellation discipline — has almost nothing to teach New World whisky makers. He’d know. He was running Holyrood when SWA put a Rauchmalt-distilled spirit through a blind sensory panel to determine whether birch-smoked malt could legitimately be called single malt. (It could, in the end.) But that machinery exists to protect a 200-year-old category from itself. Trying to retrofit it onto Australasian or Nordic or Taiwanese whisky-making is not going to help. “Stop trying to make rules and regulations to gather in your whisky-making,” he says. “We’re all too early in the process.” The implication is bold, but is worth some consideration. New World makers who treat Scotch as the template — the rules, the price ladder, the cask-release cadence, the founder-as-hero marketing — are competing on Scotch’s terms in a market Scotch already owns the high ground in. The interesting move is to do the things Scotch doesn’t do. Blend across borders. Build a flavour proposition that isn’t tied to a single still. Tell the customer what they’re actually getting. Charge them what it’s worth. Land on the shelf at a price that lets them say yes. Whether the rest of the category catches up to that argument is a different conversation. Some of it will. Some of it won’t survive long enough to. The full conversation with Nick Ravenhall — including how a job at Cragganmore turned into Holyrood turned into Woven, why he passed his business card across the desk at Blair Athol like a crazed antipodean fanboy, and what it feels like to ship whisky home and watch your mum run out of it — is on the More Good Drinks podcast now. Get full access to More Good Drinks at www.moregooddrinks.com/subscribe

    55 min

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NZ's home of beverage and bar chat from brand, bartenders, the best in the business alongside producers, distillers and the generally great humans that make More Good Drinks. www.moregooddrinks.com