Really Good Conversations

Amy Faulkner
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  • Entrepreneurship
  • Updated Monthly

In our hyperconnected world, it feels like we are becoming more disconnected than ever, so we are on a mission to bring people together through conversation. Welcome to 'The Really Good Conversations Podcast', where we delve into the minds of the wonderful people and businesses we have met in the processes of launching our card game. We will be uncovering their secrets, learning about their biggest mistakes, and sharing the key lessons they have taken from it all. So, if you're looking for an engaging chinwag mixed with business insights and a good pinch of fun, you're in the right place. Let's have a really good conversation...

  1. 2 June

    Why Children Need An Analogue Childhood

    Summary What's disappearing from childhood & why children need an analogue childhood in a digital world In this episode, Amy speaks with Nova Eden from One Collective Power and the Smartphone Free Childhood movement about how smartphones, social media, iPads, EdTech and AI are reshaping modern childhood. They explore what children may be losing to screens, from boredom and play to imagination, attention and real-world connection, and share practical ways families can build healthier digital habits at home.   Guest Nova Eden is a leadership and systems change advocate, founder of One Collective Power, and a campaigner with the Smartphone Free Childhood movement. Her work focuses on children's wellbeing, digital habits, smartphone-free schools and parenting in the digital age. Nova works with parents, schools, organisations and policymakers to help create healthier relationships with technology, and has presented her work in Parliament as part of the growing conversation around children, smartphones, social media and digital wellbeing. Overview Smartphones, social media and digital devices are now woven into childhood, family life and education. But did we move too quickly? In this conversation, Amy and Nova Eden explore the impact of screens on children's wellbeing, development, attention and relationships. Nova shares the personal moment that led her into this work, why she believes children are living through a global digital experiment, and how parents, schools and policymakers can start to rethink the role technology plays in modern childhood. The conversation covers smartphone-free schools, EdTech, early years screen use, social media safety, dopamine, sleep, boredom, analogue childhood and the emerging risks of AI. It is a thoughtful and practical discussion for parents, educators and anyone interested in what children need to thrive in the digital age.   Key Outtakes • Why children are living through a digital experiment • What screens are replacing in childhood • Why boredom, play and imagination still matter • Why "digital literacy" isn't the same as digital wellbeing • Simple ways families can build healthier screen habits • Why AI may change the conversation again More Information Collective Power https://onecollectivepower.co.uk/ Smartphone Free Childhood https://www.smartphonefreechildhood.org/   Transcript  Amy Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today, I am joined by Nova Eden, who has been at the centre of one of the biggest conversations facing parents right now: children, technology and modern childhood. Through her work with One Collective Power and the Smartphone Free Childhood movement, Nova has been working with parents, schools and policymakers to rethink how and when children engage with smartphones, social media and digital life. This isn't just about screen time. It's about what kind of childhood we're designing and what role we as adults, parents and educators need to play in that. Welcome to the podcast, Nova. Nova Thank you so much, Amy. It's lovely to be here this morning. Amy Even before we've hit record, we have already been talking about so many elements of this. It's been a busy year in the UK as well with this topic of conversation around social media, phones and bans. But what I first wanted to ask you was how you got into this space of digital awareness, digital wellness, education, and the use of devices for children and in education. Nova I've always worked with children, and my speciality has been children's mental health and wellbeing. A few years ago, my eldest son came to me and said, "Mum, everyone's getting a smartphone. I'm the only one without a phone." Of course, like every parent, I felt that pressure to conform to the social norm of giving my son a smartphone. I was worried about him being socially isolated during that crucial stage of his development. So I gave in to the peer pressure and realised very quickly I had made a mistake, because I saw him change. I saw that he didn't want to play anymore. All he wanted to do was look at his phone. Around the same time, I was having conversations with parents and friends, and everybody kept saying, "These phones and kids, it's such a nightmare." I started hearing all these horror stories about this child sending this naked picture or that child being bullied. I started hearing one too many awful stories about what was happening with phones, with kids, online. It was around the time when I read an article about a young girl called Molly Russell, who sadly and tragically took her own life because she was pushed harmful content into her newsfeed. So I realised that I wanted to do something about it and I really wanted to get involved. It was just when the Smartphone Free Childhood campaign first took off. I was very aware that I wanted to make different decisions with my younger children, and I wanted to help other parents really understand what they were getting themselves in for. Years ago, when I first started campaigning, there wasn't the awareness that there is today. This wasn't a big national conversation. So I was very passionate that I wanted to protect other parents and other children, and it snowballed. It became a big national campaign very quickly with Smartphone Free Childhood. It became a big conversation. I started working with head teachers and schools, and really trying to raise awareness. I remember people telling me back then, "Nothing's going to change." I'm delighted to say they were wrong. Things have changed. I've presented my work in Parliament, in Scottish Parliament and with the Department for Education. People really are listening. We now have legislation to make all schools smartphone-free here in the UK, and we are working towards raising the age for social media for under-16s, which is a fantastic step. There's still a lot of work to do, but we are definitely moving in the right direction. Amy Fantastic. Do you feel it is a bit like we've been living through, and still are in, a social experiment with all of this? Perhaps at the beginning, we adopted social media and phones before anyone really understood the consequences. Nova Absolutely. Our children and Gen Z are living through an experiment. I think it's time for us to advocate that our children are not the test subjects anymore. We now know the harm that's being done to children via smartphones, social media and excessive screen time. It's time for meaningful, accelerated change. We need to start challenging these norms that are no longer serving our children, and we need to make real behaviour change. We need education. We need policymakers to step up and implement legislation. Parents are struggling and children are suffering, and this can't continue. I think that not only is this now a big national conversation, it is a global movement. Amy Absolutely. As you know, I'm sitting here in Australia, originally from the UK. Australia went ahead with the social media ban. I think the jury is still out on the effectiveness of these things because, as we've touched on before, children are tech savvy these days and they sometimes find ways around these mechanics. But when we talk about screen time, is it no longer actually just about screen time, but also what else these children are missing out on in their childhood? Nova Yes, that's exactly right. I think there has been some negative press about what Australia is doing not working. But actually, we do know that it's working. It's just going to take a long time to see the results. We know that five million children have come off social media. We know that book sales have increased, which is brilliant and exactly what we want. Of course, the tech companies are making it very easy for these children to get around it. But what we really need to look at is not just the fact that these children are having excessive screen time, but what they're missing out on. We know they are no longer outside as much as they used to be. They're not socialising face to face as much as they used to be. It's the interactions and healthy activities that they need at this critical stage in their development. I think if we are going to tackle screen time in our teenagers, we need to look at what's happening in the early years, because digital wellness and healthier digital habits need to start in those early years. We've just had some recent government guidelines come out in the UK where they are saying that under-two-year-olds shouldn't have screen time, which I completely agree with. As little screen time as possible for under-fives, an hour a day, is what we should be aiming for. But I think it should be more than that. I think we should be advocating for no iPads for under-fives. We now know that excessive interactive screen time in the early years is causing developmental delays and speech and language delays. We know that children who have excessive screen time in the early years often find it more difficult to regulate their emotions. It's about what they're missing, because if a child has a choice between a toy and a screen, the screen will always win. What they need at that crucial stage in their development is free play, time, space, creativity and imagination. That's what we're really lacking. There's been a sharp rise in children going to school not being able to read, and not having basic life skills. So we need to raise awareness. I think everybody knows about smartphones and social media now, but we need to really look at iPads. If Steve Jobs, who was instrumental in creating iPads, didn't give them to his own children, we need to reconsider why we are handing out iPads to our young children. Amy Absolutely. That totally hits a nerve when you hear that about Steve Jobs. Everything you're saying resonates because we've got a four-and-a-half-year-old and, in his life, we had at times succumbed to him having the

    34 min

  2. 18 May

    Why Adults Forgot How to Play

    Summary Amy speaks with Dara Simkin about why adults forget how to play and what we lose when life becomes too focused on productivity, achievement and keeping up. Dara explores play as a mindset, not just an activity, and shares why it can help us reconnect with curiosity, creativity, joy and each other.   Guest Dara Simkin is the founder of Culture Hero and co-author of Full Stack Human. Her work explores play, creativity and human connection, helping people and teams build the human skills that technology cannot replace.   Overview From achievement syndrome and success amnesia to the pressure to always be doing, this conversation looks at why play is not childish, but deeply human. Dara explains how small, low-stakes moments of play can help us feel more present, connected and alive in a world that often asks us to optimise everything. Key Outtakes:  *]:pointer-events-auto R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id= "request-6a015108-756c-83ec-bb9b-91fabc1ac4c0-5" data-turn-id-container= "request-6a015108-756c-83ec-bb9b-91fabc1ac4c0-5" data-testid= "conversation-turn-60" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> Why play is a mindset, not just something children do How achievement can stop us enjoying the life we've built Why adults need permission to be less serious How play helps us reconnect with joy, curiosity and other people Simple ways to bring play back without adding more to the to-do list   For more information: Dara Simkin - https://www.culturehero.co/ The book Full Stack Human - https://www.culturehero.co/full-stack-human-book   Transcript Amy: Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I'm joined by Dara Simkin, founder of Culture Hero and co-author of Full Stack Human: The Mindset Upgrade You Need to Stay Human in a World Ruled by Technology. Dara's work explores the role of play, creativity and human connection in the way we live, work and lead. In this conversation, we'll explore why adults forget how to play, what we lose when everything becomes about productivity, and how play can help us connect, create and stay human in a fast-changing world. Welcome to the podcast, Dara. Dara: Hello, Amy. Amy: Thank you so much for joining me today. You're regarded as one of Australia's leading voices in play at work. So before we get into why adults need to get back to playing, can you explain for our listeners what you actually mean by play? Dara: I think when we often hear the word play, we think of something quite specific. Let's have a little go, shall we? When you think of the word play, what immediately comes to mind? Amy: Having fun. Dara: Exactly. And I think that's a very universal idea of play, which it is. Play is absolutely about having fun. But when we ask adults what they associate with play, they often say dogs, babies, kids, sports, board games and so on. When we talk about play through the lens of serious play, intentional play or purposeful play, it's really about play as a mindset or a mode, rather than an activity. It's about how we allow ourselves to get into a place where we feel more open, more relaxed and more capable of accessing dynamic thinking. We're able to be more generative in the way we think. We suspend judgement as best we can. We're open to failing, experimenting and giving things a go. So when I think about play, it's really this capacity to arrive in our lives in a very different way to how we normally arrive: overwhelmed, rushed, up to our eyeballs in things to do, in fight or flight, going, going, getting things done. I always liken it to those "aha" moments we have in the shower. We solve world hunger in the shower because it's probably the first time in our day where we're relaxed, in our body, by ourselves, and our mind is able to open because of those conditions. Amy: Yes, I can totally relate to that. It makes me think of previous roles I've had in other companies, where you're sitting at a desk all day and then you go into a meeting room and it's suddenly: "Right, we need to have a creative brainstorm. Everyone has to be creative now." You've got a one-hour meeting in the diary where you have to crack creativity, and it can feel like the most forced environment. It's not what you've just described at all. When you're in the shower, you remember things. You have ideas. You suddenly remember what you forgot to do. When I was preparing for this podcast, I was reminded of that old phrase: "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." I looked it up and it was first recorded in print in 1659 in James Howell's Proverbs. It's a saying we all know. We know it from films and popular culture, but I wonder whether we're really leaning into the meaning of it. Do you think adults have forgotten how important play is? Dara: One hundred per cent. I think we've actually created a culture that is suspicious of play. When we think back to the Puritan work ethic, which dates back 500 or 600 years, there's this idea that work is salvation, play is demonised, and productivity is a form of godliness. I think most institutions have been created around that perception. When you think about the Industrial Revolution and the point where we started replacing human labour with machines, we became cogs in a system. I don't think we've really been able to rectify that until now. I think conversations are being had where we look around and realise so many people are depressed, anxious, overwhelmed, stressed, burnt out or on multiple medications. We are incredibly unwell. I think we're realising more and more that the lifestyle that has been put upon us, around efficiency, getting a mortgage, having a nice car and this idea of success that's been sold to us, sucks. Amy: Definitely. The amount of times I've said to Alex, my husband, "I'm not sure about all this adulting." There's just such a long list of life admin to function as what we perceive to be an adult. We've both got young children, and seeing them play, and seeing their curiosity, is amazing. It's definitely brought that back to me. At what point do you think adults start to lose that natural instinct to play? Dara: I think it starts in adolescence, to be honest. When we start to gain more of a sense of individuality, identity and ego, we begin to compare ourselves to other people. My son is only five, and he's already talking about how other kids' clothes are cooler than his. I'm thinking, "Where is he getting that from?" Because it certainly isn't me. I'm astonished by this need to fit in and conform, but at the same time, it makes complete sense from an evolutionary perspective. We had to be part of a tribe. We had to belong and be included, otherwise we wouldn't survive. A lot of Full Stack Human is about understanding our evolutionary wiring, the things we are biologically designed to do in order to survive, and how the culture we live in can distort and over-sensitise those things, especially when it comes to belonging. We now understand so much about the brain, dopamine, reward and motivation. Brilliant people work in advertising and marketing, and when the message is "look like this, smell like this, wear this, buy this, do this, be this", that pressure starts from a very young age. So not only are we trying to conform and belong when we're young, we're also put into classrooms where we're expected to sit down, be quiet and learn numeracy and literacy. I've just been on a school tour for my son. He's five, so I was looking at what his primary school experience might be like. I asked the principal, "How much time do they have for imaginative play? How much time do they spend outside?" He could tell me about morning tea, recess and lunch, but when it came to imaginative play in the classroom, he didn't really have an answer. Amy: I absolutely feel you because we're in the exact same space right now. I had the same thoughts when I went on school tours earlier this year. It all felt quite restrictive inside the classroom. I looked at some of the classrooms and thought, "This feels the same as when we were at school." If we think about how we've evolved as adults, have we attached everything to having an outcome? Are we obsessed with everything needing some form of achievement? You talk about achievement syndrome. What do you mean by that, and how does it affect our ability to play? Dara: I came across this concept through a newsletter by a great researcher and writer called Michael Simmons, who is based in the States. Achievement syndrome is also this idea of achievement addiction, and it's really the thing that happens before burnout. As a society, especially in Western culture, we have a big obsession with burnout at the moment, and that's an important conversation to have. But based on the work and research I've done around achievement syndrome, the burnout conversation can be too late, because by then we're already at the end point. Michael talks about going back to childhood, where we get gold stars for doing the right thing. We start to realise that when we are good, smart or achieve something, we get accolades, recognition and validation. For many of us, especially those who had baby boomer parents, we didn't always get that validation at home. My parents had a hard time telling me they were proud of me, so we start to seek that out in other places, from teachers, sports coaches and so on. We start to learn that our value is connected to an output or an achievement. That gets reinforced when we go to work, where we get raises and promotions. If you're in sales, maybe you get the trip to Hawaii or whatever it is. So we double down on output. The more we do, the more we're recognised and revered. Then w

    36 min

  3. 5 May

    "We touch our phones more than our loved ones": Dr Niraj Lal on Life Behind The Screens

    Summary "We touch our phones more than our loved ones." It's a jarring statement from scientist and broadcaster Dr. Niraj Lal, but the data backs it up.  In this episode, we go "Behind the Screens" to understand why our biology is no match for the modern algorithm. From the "junk food" of digital connection to the looming challenges of AI and deepfakes, we explore how to build guardrails that protect our attention, our children, and our human relationships.   Guest Dr. Niraj Lal is a scientist, ABC presenter, and host of the Imagine This podcast, which has reached over 16 million listeners.  With a background in solar cell physics and science communication, Niraj is dedicated to sparking critical thinking in the next generation.  His new book, Behind the Screens, serves as a guide for young people (and adults) to navigate the ones and zeros of our digital world.     Overview Why do we find it so hard to put our phones down, even when we know the content we're consuming isn't good for us? Dr. Niraj Lal joins Amy to pull back the curtain on the economic and biological structures that keep us hooked. We dive into the "Awareness Trap"; the idea that simply knowing how an algorithm works isn't enough to change our behavior because these platforms are designed to hijack our most basic social needs for validation and connection. Niraj explains the "frictionless" design of the internet and why we need to move beyond simple screen-time limits toward true digital agency. As global conversations ramp up around social media bans for children, Niraj offers a timely perspective on how to prepare the next generation. We discuss the rise of AI, the death of "seeing is believing," and why, in an increasingly automated world, the most valuable thing we can hold onto is the direct evidence of our human relationships. Key Outtakes  The 2,000-Touch Reality: Why we touch our phones more than our loved ones and how to reset that balance The Awareness Trap: Why simply "knowing" how algorithms work isn't enough to stop the scroll Digital Junk Food: How to identify "low-nutrition" content that hijacks your social needs Beyond the Ban: Practical "guardrails" for kids that go deeper than just setting screen-time limits How to navigate a world of AI, deepfakes, and computer-generated truth The Ultimate Happiness Hack: Why scientific data proves human connection is still our greatest currency For more information: Dr. Niraj Lal website https://nirajlal.org/ The book 'Behind the Screens' https://www.uqp.com.au/books/behind-the-screens     Transcript: "We Touch Our Phones More Than Our Loved Ones" Amy:  Today I'm joined by Dr. Niraj Lal, scientist, ABC presenter, and host of the Imagine This podcast, which has gained over 16 million listens. His new book, Behind the Screens, helps young people understand how the digital world really works. It covers everything from algorithms and AI to social media, gaming, and online behavior. This conversation isn't just about kids and screens. It's about how all of us are learning to live, think, and connect in a world shaped by technology. Welcome to the podcast, Niraj. Dr. Niraj Lal: You can call me Nidge, Amy, if you'd like! But yeah, great to be with you. Thanks for having me. Amy: Fantastic. Now, I have your recent book here, Behind the Screens. It feels like such a topical book right now. There is a lot of talk around the world about social media bans and kids' use of technology, and also our own use as adults. I'm really keen to dive into this topic with you. But firstly, you come from a scientific background. What drew you to understanding how things work, from your science work right through to the digital world we're living in? Dr. Niraj Lal: Well, I think I was always just asking questions. I probably was an annoying kid, but I just try to figure out how the world works and the things that matter to all of us. I studied science and art at university: physics, maths, politics, and philosophy. Then I concentrated on physics to figure out how to make the world work for all of us. My background is in solar cell physics, trying to make solar panels more efficient. I still work in that field, but I increasingly do science communication for young ones. The aim is not just to teach facts, but to spark the skills of creative and critical thinking. It is about learning how to distinguish true information from everything else. This book stems from that: helping a young generation navigate the internet and learn what's going on "behind the screens" so they can make it work in their best interests. Amy: So many of us are walking around and we don't even question how things work or the technology we're using. When was the moment you thought, "Actually, I need to dig deeper on this"? Dr. Niraj Lal: It went by degrees. You just look at adults today: catching public transport or anywhere you are, we're all really plugged into our devices. The average adult in the Western world checks their phone more than 85 times a day. That's every 10 minutes during waking hours. We touch our devices more than 2,000 times a day. We touch them more than anything else: more than our loved ones, and more than we touch ourselves. We're all a little bit hooked. Seeing the impact this has on our society and our civic conversations, how we speak to each other and see the best side of someone else's viewpoint, it's becoming harder. We're getting more polarized. There was a wonderful documentary, The Social Dilemma, that talked to tech executives who knew exactly what drives engagement. It's not always true information, and it's not always in our best interests. I wondered if we could teach that to kids before they get a phone, to give them a bit of armor before they go online. Amy: We put a lot of focus on kids, but as you highlighted, as adults, we're all doing it. What do you think most people misunderstand about how the internet actually works? Dr. Niraj Lal: It's designed to be incredibly seamless. It's like, "How does a fish recognise water?" It's just around us. That frictionless design is intentional. I think it's helpful to be aware of what happens when your device sends something online: what metadata is, how it's used to create a profile of you, and how that's used to figure out which ads to show you. Nothing is "evil" there; it's just how it works. If we're aware of it, it helps. I think the same thing will happen for AI. Amy: You've touched on metadata and algorithms. Why is it that as humans, we might understand this intellectually, but our behavior doesn't actually shift? Dr. Niraj Lal: Because we're human. Our brains evolved as social creatures on the savanna with an almost infinite capacity for being liked and connected. App developers have found a way to hijack that for profit. It's a bit like junk food; we know it's bad for us, but we still eat it. The difference is there's a physical limit to how much junk food you can eat before you feel sick, but I don't know if there's the same limit to feeling validated or connected. Amy: In your view, are we dealing with a technology problem or a human behavior problem? Dr. Niraj Lal: I don't know if it's a problem so much as an outcome of who we are as biological organisms and how our society is structured around profit-making. We're usually catching up with technology, and we're trying to catch up now with legislative changes. The first step is awareness. Amy: Is it too late? Are we so far into it that we can't go back? Dr. Niraj Lal: I don't think we're too late. It is tricky for the generations that have already slipped through. I don't know if we did right by the young people who were online before these social media bans. But every other technological revolution has found ways to have appropriate guardrails, and we can do the same here. It's up to us to say, "Hey, we want this to work in our best interest." Amy: I'm conscious of my phone use around my son. What are kids really learning from watching adults use technology? Dr. Niraj Lal: It's absolutely critical. "Monkey see, monkey do." It's hard to be those role models when we feel so time-pressured with work and life admin. Kids are observing how we do it well and how we don't. But the kids I spoke with for the book are actually quite savvy. They can see what's going on and they want to make it work for them. Amy: What is the one conversation parents should have before giving a child a phone? Dr. Niraj Lal: My tip is that it doesn't have to go from zero to 100%. It can be a gradual process. "Here's a device with messages and a phone; we'll talk about adding more apps over time." Keep the conversation as open as possible. Let them know: "If you see something that makes you feel weird or yuck, that's totally okay and you can talk to me." Make sure they have a safety network. If they're gaming, join them. If they're scrolling, do it together sometimes. Keeping that connection open is the most important part. Amy: We are now in this world of AI, and you talk about the difficulty of knowing what's "real." Are we moving toward a world where truth is about trust rather than facts? Dr. Niraj Lal: We're certainly in an age where any image or video has a real possibility of being computer-generated. Trust, independent verification, and being aware of your media sources will become vital. I think face-to-face, in-person experiences will become even more important: the things we can learn through direct evidence. Amy: What concerns you most about this shift? Dr. Niraj Lal: The conversation is accelerating so quickly. It's helpful to look under the hood of what a Large Language Model actually is, because that gives us agency. We shouldn't assume that just because an AI can converse in a personable manner, it carries the same empathy, value judgments, and ethical frameworks that we take for granted as humans. Amy: I've got some quick "Mythbuster" questions for you.

    27 min

  4. 21 Apr

    Why Smart People Still Get Scammed

    Summary Scams are no longer just about dodgy messages or obvious red flags. In this episode, Amy talks to scam investigator Kylee Dennis about the human side of online deception; how trust gets built, why loneliness can make people more vulnerable, and how AI is changing what feels believable online. From romance scams to voice cloning, this is a timely conversation about manipulation, digital safety and the conversations families need to be having now.     Overview Kylee Dennis is the founder of Two Face Investigations and Scam Prevention Australia. With 14 years in law enforcement behind her, she was drawn into this work after her own mum became the victim of a romance scam. In this conversation, Kylee shares what that experience revealed, how scammers use persuasive language to build trust, why intelligent people still get caught out, and what all of us should be more aware of in a world shaped by loneliness, technology and AI.     Guest Kylee Dennis is a scam investigator and digital safety specialist, and the founder of Two Face Investigations and Scam Prevention Australia. Her work focuses on exposing online deception, supporting victims, and helping people better understand how scams really work; from romance scams and sextortion through to emerging AI threats.     Key Outtakes Scams are often less about technology and more about trust, timing and emotional vulnerability Persuasive language is one of the biggest tools scammers use to create connection quickly Loneliness and isolation can make people far more vulnerable than many realise AI is making scams more convincing, with voice cloning and deepfake video adding new risks One of Kylee's clearest messages   For more inofrmation:  Two Face Investigations www.twofaceinvestigations.au

    36 min

  5. 7 Apr

    How Maku Fenaroli Quit Finance & Built an Art-led Fashion Brand

    Summary Maku Fenaroli went from a career in finance to building Maku The Label — an art-led fashion brand from Melbourne that scaled fast and forced her to back herself sooner than expected.  In this episode, we talk about the real tipping points, the behind-the-scenes challenges of rapid growth, and what it takes to turn creativity into a sustainable business. Guest Maku Fenaroli is the founder and creative force behind Maku The Label, an art-led fashion brand known for bold, wearable designs. With a background in teaching and finance, Maku now combines hand-made creativity with modern e-commerce to build a fast-growing label with a loyal community.   Overview Maku Fenaroli, founder of Maku The Label, shares the leap from "safe job" to building a brand in public. Maku originally trained as a teacher, then fell into the world of superannuation when she moved to Melbourne; a role that felt comfortable, if not aligned. Creativity was always there in the background, but like many people, she didn't believe it could become her full-time life. Everything shifted when she finished breastfeeding her second child and found herself living in T-shirts - but unable to justify the designer price tags or support fast fashion. So she did what most people only think about: she made her own. Starting with a low-risk print-on-demand model, Maku tested designs in real time and quickly discovered what customers were truly craving. We unpack the point where the business became "real": the six-figure Boxing Day sale, the strain of juggling a full-time job alongside late-night production work, and the moment she knew she had enough data to step away from corporate life. Maku also shares the cost of rapid growth, from customer service pressure to product development setbacks, and why building something meaningful requires both resilience and humility.   Visit Maku The Label https://makuthelabel.com/ Transcript Today, I'm joined by Maku Fenaroli, founder of Maku the Label, a bold art-led brand that's built serious traction in a short space of time. Maku started the business while working in finance, created a few t-shirts when she felt she had nothing to lose, and within four months, the momentum was strong enough for her to quit her job. Recently named in the top 50 people in e-commerce, she is building, navigating growth, marketing, self-doubt and the realities of backing yourself. Welcome to the podcast!   Maku (01:06) Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Lovely intro.   Amy (01:09) It's a fascinating journey that you've been on and different worlds from your finance background to now fashion. And I thought it would be great to tap into that journey a bit more and for listeners to get a bit of an insight of how a change can happen  in your life or direction. So firstly, take us back because before launching Maku, which is a fashion brand, you started in finance. So how did you end up in the financial world?   Maku (01:39) Yeah. So I had a job in a superannuation company and actually back in New Zealand, I was a teacher. So I'd moved to Melbourne thinking I would get another teaching job. I couldn't get the position that I wanted. So one of my friends worked in HR for the superannuation company. And I went in for an interview thinking this would just be like a short term thing. And then I was there for 13 years.   Amy (02:06) It's crazy where the years go. Maku (02:09) Yeah. And I think I just remember thinking when I started, wow, this is so easy. Like, it's such an easy job from teaching, you just go in, do emails and all that stuff, have your lunch and then go home and you're not there still thinking about the children and the program that you're going to teach for the next day. So yeah, I ended up just staying because it was quite comfortable at the time, but it was obviously never my passion.   Amy (02:31) Have you always had a creative…   Maku (02:32) I've always been an artist, yeah. So I've always been an artist, but it was always my side hustle. It was never something that I thought I could do full-time. I always wanted to. Obviously you always want to do your passion full-time, but I was never in that position. But funnily enough, the company that I worked for always used to hero that you can work flexible and you can do your passion. And so I would be the spokesperson for flexible working and I have my career as an artist as well. So I would talk about it at work as well.   Amy (03:03) Oh that's brilliant. And what prompted you to actually, you know, finally take the leap, finally start it and in particular start with t-shirts?   Maku (03:18) Yeah, so t-shirts obviously wasn't on the bingo card for me. But I'd just finished breastfeeding my second child and I was living in t-shirts and I wanted to buy a couple of new tees at the time and they were really expensive. All the ones that I liked that felt like they were me were in the $200 mark or designer t-shirts and I just couldn't afford them. So I was like, whatever, I'll just print my own.   And there are a lot of companies around Australia, like the T-Shirt Company and the Print Bar where you can just upload your artwork onto their website and they'll print you the t-shirt and send it to you. And I thought, let's just give this a go. I've got nothing to lose. I'm not investing any money in this. Even if I pop these up on my website and nothing sells, I haven't pre-bought these t-shirts. So I did that. And of course, you know, my sister and cousin were the only people that bought them when we started.   But then a couple of influencers that I reached out to agreed to let me send them the t-shirts and it just took off. I think one of the reasons that it took off was I was designing pieces that I really wanted to wear. So I knew they were wearable and they weren't just me trying to copy something that another t-shirt brand has done or, you know, trying to come up with the same formula that everybody's used to.   They were looking for something different and for something really colorful. So yeah, it was a very unexpected shift in my career at the time.   Amy (04:50) And at that point as well, by leveraging these other companies as well from a manufacturing point of view, initially then you didn't have to have that big outlay of, buying upfront all of the products, you could actually utilise that service, you know, print on demand, if you will. And then that I imagine gave you a good insight to what are people actually buying and what they want.   Maku (05:13) It was really amazing and it was a really great way to start the business because there was absolutely no risk. You know, I would paint something and then 30 minutes later pop it on Instagram and people could buy it. And it didn't matter if the designs didn't sell because as I said, you know, we weren't buying stock in these. So I was really kind of testing what worked and what didn't. But what wasn't great was it would take people like 10 to 15 days to get their order because they were printing the t-shirts to go.   We didn't manage this company. It was a company that -- this is their standards. You get your printed t-shirts within this time. So not great customer service, but great in terms of learning and great for us as a business who were just kind of testing the water.   Amy (05:59) Very much. And we often talk about it's kind of putting something out there, you know, test, iterate, learn, then, you know, build from it. So not having that huge, you know, risk at the beginning is really useful. And many people, you know, who are perhaps, you know, working corporate worlds or even just other jobs, you know, they might have this idea to, they've got a business idea or something they want to do, but you end up in this situation where, well, you can't fully leave the job yet because you're wanting to cover your salary, perhaps. But then on the next side, you can't grow the other business because you don't have the time to do it because you're working full time elsewhere.    How did you navigate through that period? And when was the tipping point that you thought, right, we're onto something here and I can consider actually leaving my job?   Maku (06:44) Yeah, it was after we had our first ever sale, which was Boxing Day. Bear in mind, the business only started officially in December. And then we had our first Boxing Day sale that same month. And I think we did six figures, and we were like, what?    So I think it was kind of that point that we started thinking maybe this is going to be something we can continue. And then the sales continued in January. We had our biggest month ever in February, which we've learned now that in retail, that's quite unusual. And I think it was at that point that I was working till 12 o'clock at night, setting up these artworks on the website that we were using, cause it was so manual that my mental health was starting to struggle trying to do the two things. I thought, I can either lean in and do the business that I feel most passionate about or we scale back the side hustle and I try and keep the two jobs, but I just wasn't mentally in a place to keep the boat.    And my husband was like, let's do it. I back you. We had just brought on Colleen, the business advisor, and she was like, I think you're safe. So it wasn't without a lot of thought behind it. And also, although, you know, four months isn't that long, we felt like we had enough data there to say, we can comfortably quit our jobs knowing we can expect this amount of revenue for the next year. So I think that was what made us comfortable to quit our jobs at that point -- we felt like we had enough data to say it was safe for us to quit and we would be financially stable. But yeah, it definitely wasn't without hesitation and without a lot of strain on us both.   Amy (08:31) And it is harder, especially with two childr

    28 min

  6. 23 Mar

    What Happens After a $47M Exit? Phillip Di Bella on What Success Really Is

    Summary Phillip Di Bella built one of Australia's most successful coffee businesses, and sold it for $47 million. In this episode, we find what it actually felt like the day after he sold, how his definition of success has changed over the years, and what the next generation needs to hear about work and leadership.  This isn't just a story about building and selling a business, it's about what success really costs, and what's actually worth chasing. Guest Phillip Di Bella is an Australian entrepreneur and founder of Di Bella Coffee and The Coffee Commune. He is also a mentor, speaker and advocate for innovation and collaboration in the hospitality industry. Overview Phillip Di Bella is the founder of Di Bella Coffee, which he launched in Brisbane in 2002 with just $5,000 and scaled into one of Australia's largest specialty coffee brands. After selling the business for $47 million, Phillip could have stepped away. Instead, he doubled down on building community, mentoring entrepreneurs, and reshaping what success looks like. In this episode of Really Good Conversations, Phillip shares the emotional impact of selling a business with your name on it, the cost of relentless growth, and how he lost 80kg to take his life back after burnout. He challenges the hype around startup exits, investment culture, and the "get rich quick" narrative flooding social media. You'll hear his views on leadership, resilience, and what today's business owners need to understand about patience, failure, and building something that lasts.   Key takeaways What it really felt like to sell a business for $47 million and why Phillip asked for the cheque, not a bank transfer The personal cost of growth: burnout, weight gain, and what he changed after the exit Phillip's definition of success today and why it has nothing to do with status or stuff Why the next generation is being sold the wrong version of ambition Startup myths, VC hype, and what founders should focus on before chasing investment The importance of meaningful conversations, with others, and with yourself The one piece of advice that changed the direction of Phillip's life   For more information: The Coffee Commune https://www.coffeecommune.com.au/ Private Coffee Collection https://privatecollection.coffee/     Transcript  Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I am joined by Phillip Di Bella, entrepreneur, mentor, and one of the most recognised names in Australian coffee. He started Di Bella Coffee in 2002 with just $5,000 and built it into Australia's largest specialty coffee brand, later selling it for $47 million. He's done what many dream of, but instead of stepping away, he stayed active, launching the Coffee Commune and mentoring the next generation. In this episode, we unpack what really drives him and what future game changers need to hear. Welcome to the podcast, Phillip!    Phillip (01:09) Thanks for having me.   Amy (01:27) Thank you so much for giving us your time today, because I'm really excited about this conversation. And as I've mentioned to you offline is, you know, to tap into a little bit of behind the scenes, a bit more of your brain and what makes you tick from the journey that you have been on. Because ultimately you have done something that, you know, many people are striving to do in business, launch a product, build a business, sell it, sell it for millions and sail off into the sunset on a mega yacht, never needing to work again.    Phillip (01:43) If only.   Amy (01:53) And you haven't exactly done the latter part, but what I wanted to tap into, because I think people, whether they do start something with that end in mind and if it is the selling or whatever. But if you could take us back to 2014 for just a moment when you did sell the business, how did that actually feel when that went through, that sale, for you? What was it almost like, the next day, to realise that is something you've exited?   Phillip (02:09) It's a sign of relief, it really is. I think it's a combination of emotions. You know, a bit of anxiety kicks in, the unknown territory, a bit of disappointment, you know, you're handing over the keys to something that you've built from scratch. But ultimately, when you look at it and you go, hey, I've been able to build something quite remarkable, I've been able to look after people along the way. I've been able to, obviously now I can set my family up, which was very important with me being, my background being Italian, to set my kids up and take some money off the table because since 2002 right till you sell, you've got an amount of risk. You've got money on the line, you've got debts, you've got all sorts of stuff. So relief is probably, if you said sum it up in one word, relief.    Business is relentless. It's even more relentless today than what it was in 2014, and we can sure unpack that. But because business is relentless when you're an owner and people say, what hours do you work? Well, you never stop working when you own a business. And it doesn't matter whether it's a micro business or a medium business or a small business or a large business, an owner of a business never stops working. The brain's always ticking and it is relentless. I'll keep saying that word. And so in summary, the one word that sums it all up when you finally exit and you know, and I, they wanted to direct debit the money into my account. And I said, no, I want the traditional checks. So I made them present checks and I took a photo of them on the table and you know, it was a bit of old school. The first thing that came to mind was relief. Relief because I was able to set my family up, set myself up and it was a validation of, you know, taking a punt, going out into a challenging world of coffee in 2002 with 2000 competitors, several of them billion dollar companies, several hundred million dollar companies, us being a startup with 5000k. Then growing to be Australia's largest specialty coffee company, which means, you know, it's manufacturing and supplying only into cafes, is that concept of specialty coffee. We had 11 % market share of supply into cafes, which gives you an idea of size. We built a prolific brand, we had an amazing team. It was just relief.   Amy (04:21) And were there any points through the actual journey that stand out of times of just thinking, I don't know if I want to keep doing this? You know, some of my friends and fellow business owners, we're often talking and voice noting being like, what are we doing? Why did we choose this path? Maybe we'll just go get a job.   Phillip (04:38) Yeah, look, all the time, you know, there's no secrets. I started the company in 2002, I was quite healthy, and fit over the years, before you knew it, I'd put on, you know, when I exited completely through the earn out and the whole lot and handed over the keys officially in 2017, I was weighing 167kg. I'd been traveling three weeks a month, I didn't have any work life balance or harmony, something I talk about now. And, you know, I look back and I go, it would have been much easier working for wages and it would have been much easier working for somebody else. And that's not a bad thing. That's why I made sure that all 130 plus of my staff loves coming to work and they've felt integral to the business, because the work team and staff are important and not everybody can be a business owner, but a business owner can't operate without the right people that are dedicated to the cause that are vested emotionally into the vision of the business.    So I wanted to build a workplace that people felt a part of that success and the motto has always been, the more you do for the business, the more the business will do for you in terms of time off, pay, whatever, workplace flexibility, bonuses. The more you put into the business, the more the business will put back into you because I didn't want them to feel just like a staff member or team member because I didn't want to just show up as a staff member or team member into another organisation.    But that whole saying where they say we do today really hard things so that tomorrow can be easier is something that I talk about. Everything was very difficult from 2002 to say 2014, difficult in different ways. From startup to growth to then being Australia's largest to maintaining that, to continuing the growth. But I look back and I go without that journey and without what happened there, I wouldn't be where I am today, which is, again, my kids are set up. My daughter starts university today, turns 18 in a couple of days' time. My boy's in grade 11, he's 16, just got his learners, able to buy him a new car.   It really comes back to now, you know, sitting there and being grateful and looking back and going, I'm 50, I'm the fittest and healthiest I've ever been. My kids are in a great position and set up well. I'm personally in a good space. And you know, that's where gratefulness and reflecting is so important to look back and go, I wouldn't be where I am and who I am today, had I not traveled that journey from a young age. And not just from starting a business, because my journey started nine years before that, working for somebody else, which started before that at university, which started before that growing up as a son of migrants, learning good values and work ethic and how to win with people, something that a lot of people forget today. Something that I instil into my kids, grades are good, but winning with people and a good work ethic will always beat your grades. So make sure that, you know, that to me is the trifecta. Something I instil in my kids, something that I instil in my team, is that you need that whole person in terms of their work ethic. So what I talk about now, mindset, skill set, heart set. They're the three key elements and that's something that was important to me to bring, whether I was working for so

    39 min

  7. 9 Mar

    Why Things Feel F*cked Right Now & What We Can Do About It

    Summary What happens when you realise the life you've built no longer fits?  In this episode, Andrew Sloan shares the story behind his book Why Things Feel F*cked and the personal reinvention that followed. From ending a long-term relationship to taking his work on the road, Andrew explores why so many of us feel stretched, stuck or overwhelmed and why better conversations might be the way through.  We talk about nervous systems, leadership, perfectionism and the quiet power of human connection. Guest Andrew Sloan is an integrated psychotherapist and leadership coach who works with individuals from all walks of life, as well as CEOs and executive teams navigating performance and culture challenges. His work sits at the intersection of wellbeing and high performance, with a focus on self-leadership, nervous system awareness and meaningful conversations. He is the author of Why Things Feel F*cked and speaks nationally on leadership, resilience and connection. Overview After publishing his book, Andrew made a series of significant life changes, choosing freedom and possibility over stability. That shift becomes the gateway into a wider discussion: why do so many of us feel under pressure, even when life looks "fine" on paper? Andrew unpacks the modern productivity trap and the way digital life keeps our nervous systems in a constant state of activation. He explains why chaos isn't new, but our relationship with it has changed; and how the smallest shifts, from elongating the exhale to reconnecting with nature, can begin to restore calm. Andrew shares why most performance issues at work are really conversation issues. High performance and wellbeing are not opposing forces, but deeply connected. This is a thought provoking, grounding episode about curiosity, courage and the human need for meaningful connection.   Key takeaways Modern life keeps our nervous systems activated through constant digital input Many workplace performance problems are actually conversation problems Calm hasn't disappeared. It's simply covered over by protective patterns The practical shifts that can help us reset  For more information: Andrew Sloan www.andrewsloan.com.au Warning: This episode contains strong language. With quite a few F-bombs.    Transcript  Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I am joined by Andrew Sloan, an integrated psychotherapist, leadership coach, and author of "Why Things Feel F*cked". Andrew works with individuals from all walks of life through his private practice, as well as CEOs and executive teams at the intersection of wellbeing and high performance. Whether it's in his one-to-one sessions or inside leadership rooms, his focus is on what's really going on beneath the surface and when things aren't working. At the heart of his work is one simple but powerful idea. Better human relationships start with better conversations. In today's episode, we're going to explore reinvention, why so many of us feel stuck right now, and what actually helps when life feels a little off. Welcome to the podcast, Andrew.   Andrew (01:25) Thank you for having me, very, very much.   Amy (01:28) Even just reading in your intro totally just aligns with the world that we are in with really good conversations when you highlight that better human relationships start with better conversations. And I felt it was great to get you as a guest on the podcast. You have launched a book in the last year and we are going to get on to that. But the last year has been quite a big year for you. And there's been changes and adventures. So can you give us a little bit of an insight to your own life of what has shifted and what made you realise something needed to change?   Andrew (02:02) Well, I think the last 10 years has been a pretty massive adventure, all sort of crescendoing in the last 12 months where I started to write a book. 2024, I started in June and then as I was writing the book, I realised that there were some really hard conversations I needed to have with the people that I loved. And so as I published the book in November last year, I ended a 13 year relationship and you know, that was because I think it wasn't set up for common connection in the world as I wanted it. And for him, after 13 years, it didn't feel free enough. And so we came to the decision to separate after so long. All whilst I am publishing a book into the world. I wrote about the breakup in the book as well in chapter nine at the beginning. I start to talk about, you know, the critical and really meaningful conversations we needed to have, to make a change possible. And then I just couldn't see my life being anchored to a mortgage or even a lease again. All of those options in front of me were a no towards that sort of being tied down to something. And it just felt energetically in my body, like a big fat no.   And I had to have a really considerate conversation with myself about what that meant to kind of shirk that security. And I bought a motor home and I am traveling around Australia for at least 12 months. The way it's going right now, Amy, it's like, it's really cool. I'm like,  is there an end date? I don't know. But one of the big adventures that I'm on right now is to take the "why things feel f*cked" idea and continue to have that conversation in different communities. And I've already been starting to do that, but also learn what's beyond what feels f*cked. I definitely talk about that in the book, but I think I'm on a journey towards learning at a higher fidelity. What does real great living look like beyond us recognising and knowing this isn't it? What is on the other side of that? Is it more a connection to nature, more diverse people? Is it being a bit more nomadic? And that is what I'm currently discovering. And it's f*cking cool.   Amy (04:37) That is amazing. And even just going back to your own personal experience of writing the book, the majority of people, yeah, the vast majority of people don't perhaps get an opportunity to do that full self discovery. So it's almost, as you said, through that process of writing the book and the context and the content you were writing about, actually showed a mirror into your own world.   And then as you said, you're now getting out there beyond what was your usual world where you were  obviously living at the time and then meeting completely different new people, new communities, new locations and you're just living out your own experiment in some way.   Andrew (05:17) Yeah, it's different vantage points, right? Of the same thing called this human experience. And I will never forget the day I had the printed out manuscript and I was working through it to work on an edit. And I was like,  I don't have this in my relationship right now. I can't have that meaningful conversation right now in this relationship. And it was as I was flicking through it, I was like, f*ck.   I need to make some significant changes here. And,  yeah, it's, it's been a wild, wild ride and it continues to be one. And it's a beautifully profound moment when I can kind of lay down those things that keep us safe, like the mortgage and the house and literally pick up a mobile home, a beautiful one at that and drive around and go, I can actually live a bit more simply than I was.   I can live way more connected to myself and nature than I ever have been. And, look, there's also some really great conversations to have on the road as well.   Amy (06:23) Because we're sold the more, more, more, you know, the work for more, the get the bigger, whether it's the bigger job or the bigger thing to always be reaching the apartment, then the house, then the bigger house. It's always that more, more,   Andrew (06:34) And the job, right? That supports it all because without that job, we can't pay the mortgage at the level we are. And we can't meet the cost of living pressures that we find ourselves in. And so, yeah, we are stuck in a little bit of a trap. And I talk about this in the book as the productivity trap and it is the more, more, more mindset. And it's a myriad of different things that kind of put us into that mode. I'm not sitting here saying, well, they all should be destroyed and broken down. No, I'm not suggesting that. I don't think everyone should go on a motor home because I probably wouldn't have a campsite left if you all joined me. But we do need to orientate ourselves in that so we can make better choices. And the first step is to acclimate ourselves to that and go, oh, I am in that more, more, more. And it is kind of fueling something in my life that is hindering presence, calm, wellbeing, better connection with the people around us. So yeah, it's important we're having this conversation about the more, more. And I think people are starting to realise, yeah, this isn't working and I feel like I'm trapped by it.   Amy (07:47) Just on the treadmill. What for you was the point that you thought, I want to write a book, I need to write a book and actually it's going to really highlight, you know, obviously a title that gets attention for sure, "Why Things Feel F*cked". Where did that drive for you come from in the first place?   Andrew (08:03) It's so multi-layered. And I think if we begin where we were just in our conversation, it was with clients coming to me and saying, I'm really stuck and I have no f*cking idea why I'm in the dark to why I feel like I am so stuck. And this experience of the sort of curtain is closed to why we feel so f*cked and why we then feel so stuck in that.   We're following all the rules and we don't know why joy and happiness and peace is impossible in our lives. That was the beginning of, wow, how do I compile something that will tangibly and practically help not be like a self-help book that just gives you the surface treatment or gives you a couple of the moves, but without the robustness that I think

    40 min

  8. 23 Feb

    Reclaiming Joy: Why Fun Matters for Women After 35

    Summary When was the last time you had a night out that felt completely worth it? In this episode, Amy is joined by 'The Jodie's', Jodie Whelan and Jodie de Vries, founders of House of Zim; a women-only events concept redefining what a great night out looks like for women over 35. Guest Jodie Whelan and Jodie de Vries are co-founders of House of Zim, a Sydney-based women-only events concept designed for women over 35. With backgrounds in brand and marketing, they've combined strategic thinking with lived experience to create thoughtfully curated, early-evening dance events that prioritise connection, nostalgia and joy. Overview Between careers, children, responsibilities and the constant pressure to optimise our lives, joy can quietly slip down the priority list. And when getting out requires organising childcare, coordinating diaries and reshuffling life's logistics, the stakes feel higher. If you're going to make the effort, it needs to be worth it. House of Zim was built around that idea - "a guaranteed good night". Together, they explore why women-only spaces feel different, what actually happens on a dance floor when women feel safe, and how music reconnects us with parts of ourselves that may have been pushed aside. The conversation moves beyond events into something deeper; identity, permission, friendship and the courage to prioritise what makes us feel alive. If you've ever wondered when you last danced, laughed freely or did something purely because you wanted to, this episode will resonate.   Key takeaways How the loss of 'joy' sparked the idea of creating 'House of Zim' What 'House of Zim' really means, and who it's for The psychology behind music, memory and connection Building a brand aligned with values and the misconceptions  How women-only spaces shift energy and confidence For more information on House of Zim https://houseofzim.com/   Transcript  Amy (00:02) Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I'm joined by the Jodies, Jodie Whelan and Jodie De Vries, friends, sister-in-laws and co-founders of House of Zim, a women-only events concept rethinking what a great night out looks like for women over 35. Today we're talking about the role of fun, the power of women-only spaces and what it takes to design a guaranteed good night -- and also what it is like building a business together. Welcome to the podcast, ladies.   The Jodies (01:04) Hi, thanks for having us.   Amy (01:06) Thank you. It's so lovely to see you and thank you for bringing your dancing vibe, the energy to this podcast. So our listeners can't see that, you when I dialed in the ladies were there enjoying a good old dance, well and truly living at their brand. I'd love to obviously chat to you about House of Zim, what you're creating and the journey you've been on so far and where you're heading. But tell us firstly, a little bit of the origin story and was there an exact moment for you where you realized fun had perhaps slipped off your radar in your lives.   The Jodies (01:43) Yeah. So, Jodie and I used to own a business together, a branding agency. Jodie still has it, Tiny Hunter. And I stepped back from that about four years ago. Life was too busy and I have two young children. Jodie has three young children and it wasn't too busy for her, but I know we've all got different limits. And so I stepped back and decided to have a little bit of time out and I sort of was mulling over, I was wondering, will I go back in? What else did I want to do? And part of me thought, well, you know, I'll go off and be independent. But actually, I did keep coming back that I wanted to work with Jodie again. And I'd been through the whole, you know, burnt out wellness rituals, all of that, and they helped. They did. But then at some point, I really just started feeling like I wanted to lean back into fun again.   And so Jodie was very supportive and she'd come out to me with all these nights out. And we found that we were going to this one particular bar in the city. We loved it. We knew that it was always going to be great music, but it didn't get good until later on in the evening. And also there was a lot of young people there and young people are lovely. And God bless all the 20 year old women who want to wear crop tops and have fantastic bodies. But I was just perhaps in a place where I was like, Ooh, this is making me feel a bit old.   So, yeah, I sat across from Jodie in a cafe and was like, I know you're really busy, but might you want to start a guaranteed good night out for women who are 35 and over? And that really was as simple as that. We knew that we wanted women to have a crowd that they could relate to. We knew that we wanted it to be music that you know and love. So we're particularly passionate about 90s and 2000s house and pop. And we knew that we wanted it to be a good venue.   So, know, no sticky floors, places that respect your age and that you feel like you're gonna have a good night in.   Amy (03:48) Brilliant. And what made you decide to go down women only specifically?   The Jodies (03:55) Women are the best. Sorry. I just think, well, there are lots of places that you can go to that are for everyone. And we wanted to create something that was special. And I guess, you know, all our girlfriends, they want to catch up with each other, spend time together. So it was creating a space for that, but where they could make new memories instead of talking about the old memories. And I think there's just really a special kind of magic when you get a whole group of women together just having fun, let their hair down. I don't know why, but it's just different. Yeah, there's a certain kind of freedom.   Amy (04:30) Absolutely. Yeah. And when I first heard the concept and Jodie, we'd met at a networking thing last year and I was just like, yes, he totally resonates with me on this. Yeah, you know, I turned 40 in October, which I actually celebrated at your event, at your October event, which was  amazing. So I can definitely vouch for being a tried and tested attendee.   Yeah, it was when you get to this sort of age and perhaps you're not going out as much as you were. There's other responsibilities, you know, we've all had the hangovers and such. Like, it's not really worth the next day. And I always say this, that phrase, borrowing the hours of the next day. You know, if you stay out after midnight now, it is like,  God.   The Jodies (05:15) Yeah, that's right. So our next event runs seven till 11 PM. Yeah. And we're really specific about the type of venue that we want because by the time that you've, if you've got kids, you're organising a babysitter, maybe you need help with your parents or you've got to do something with your pet, you know, and then you've got to get all of your friends together into the same timeline that it's going to work for. It's really annoying if you go out and have a shit night.   So if you're going to do it, you want to make sure that you're going to have a guaranteed great night out. So that's what we're really, we're very discerning about the venues that we use. We only ever use female DJs. Mostly we're using DJs who are in that 35 plus age bracket. We have got one who we just really love. She's a bit younger, but we still forgive her. It is hard to find good female DJs. So if anyone is thinking of doing it, do it. And the other thing, you know, earlier I spoke to that whole, just felt like I was ready to lean into fun and I didn't want to stay in this sort of serious mindset. Jodie's talked about this before. It's like, take supplements, do squats. Are you talking to your children enough? What connection method do you have with your partner? Are you getting eight hours sleep? Are you timing it on a ring or a watch? And it's like, Jesus Christ, we'll just go out and have a good time because actually if you look at any study to do with wellness, all those come lower down and at the top, is walking and dance. Yeah, that is the best thing. And you're out with your friends, you're making new memories. That was one of the things we also talked about. Sometimes you get into this catch up. Yes. And so you meet and you're just telling each other what you've done. And also often, let's be honest, women of a certain age complaining about all of the things you're having to do when you're stressed about. And so we really like the idea of just letting women create new memories. And we always say living a hell yes life. That's what we want. That when somebody sees our event, it's a hell yes answer. Like you said, you saw it and were like, ooh, this really resonates with me.    Amy (07:17) And it's so funny when you were just saying there reeling off the list, it does sometimes feel like it's a full-time job now just to sort of stay alive, just to adult, you know, it's like between the, well you've got to be getting the meditation in, and the journaling, and make sure you're moving for exercise. And if you actually look at all of the other great tips and advice and all of this and wellness, you're like, well, if I do all of those things, what am I actually doing any work or doing the, you know, shopping and the cooking and all of that? There's definitely that freedom feeling, I think, just generally dancing. And I know myself when we were on your dance floor in October, a girlfriend who's got two little ones now, and she actually said to me, she was like, this is the first time I feel alive and like me. I think since, you know, since having the children. And I think because we are in that, you know, if you do have children more so, but obviously if you're just busy with other things in life, you're constantly thinking about those things. And we put ourselves to the bottom of the pile, really, that our fun can come when there's time for it.   The Jodies (08:19) Yeah. Yeah. I think women spend a lot of time th

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In our hyperconnected world, it feels like we are becoming more disconnected than ever, so we are on a mission to bring people together through conversation. Welcome to 'The Really Good Conversations Podcast', where we delve into the minds of the wonderful people and businesses we have met in the processes of launching our card game. We will be uncovering their secrets, learning about their biggest mistakes, and sharing the key lessons they have taken from it all. So, if you're looking for an engaging chinwag mixed with business insights and a good pinch of fun, you're in the right place. Let's have a really good conversation...

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