The Argument

Jerusalem Demsas & Matthew Yglesias

Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out. New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. www.theargumentmag.com

  1. Why Democrats and Republicans want you to pay $50,000 for a car

    11 HRS AGO

    Why Democrats and Republicans want you to pay $50,000 for a car

    This week on The Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles. Jerusalem argues that Americans should have access to cheaper, climate-friendly cars, while Matt says industrial policy requires a more cautious approach. They dive into the failure of Trump’s tariffs, what serious industrial policy looks like, and how the climate activists are once again missing the mark. (0:00) The BYD car that can jump over potholes (4:07) Climate activists miss the mark (11:46) Setting the stage for war with China (20:13) Protecting nonunion electric vehicles (27:50) Let Jerusalem buy a cheap Chinese EV (35:13) Matt Yglesias’s trade solutions (41:20) Comparing today to 1980s Japan auto policy (46:10) Peer review: The effects of school phone bans Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    58 min
  2. Did Joe Biden really kill Spirit Airlines?

    14 MAY

    Did Joe Biden really kill Spirit Airlines?

    Spirit Airlines is dead and the right, true to form, is blaming Joe Biden.  The immediate cause of Spirit's demise is pretty clear: the war with Iran spiked jet fuel costs, and the already-battered airline couldn't absorb the hit to its bottom line. Last we checked, Joe Biden didn't start any wars with Iran.  In this episode, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas break down what really happened with Spirit Airlines, the weird history of aviation policy in the U.S., and the conspiracy by some progressives to reduce competition in the space.  (0:00) Spirit Airlines is dead (7:07) The blocked JetBlue merger (14:54) 1960s airline nostalgia (21:12) Matt’s tinfoil hat theory (26:29) Pre-Carter airline monopolies (35:26) The dawn of deregulation (47:17) Anti-monopolists want less competition (54:19) America’s protectionist policies (58:22) Peer review: Marriage and gender-coded purchases Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    1hr 9min
  3. Boy moms and Nazi POWs: how "The Feminine Mystique" changed feminism

    7 MAY

    Boy moms and Nazi POWs: how "The Feminine Mystique" changed feminism

    Betty Friedan thought Korean POWs were dying in captivity because their mothers were housewives. She thought boy moms were making their sons gay. She wrote a whole chapter comparing suburban kitchens to concentration camps — in 1963, while America was still processing what concentration camps actually were.  "The Feminine Mystique" is one of those important books that everyone "knows" but no one has actually read.  For today's episode of The Argument podcast, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas read and review the book that kicked off second-wave feminism.  0:00-Introduction to The Feminine Mystique 9:02-Psychotherapy, Mad Men, and Marxist origins 20:02-The true drivers of social change 30:52-Famous books with massive effects 35:07-The most insane parts of The Feminine Mystique 47:33-The female happiness paradox 51:34-Rating the book’s success 56:54-Peer Review: Health benefits of WW2 sugar rationing? New episodes post every Thursday. For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com.  Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    1hr 5min
  4. Should we end asylum?

    30 APR

    Should we end asylum?

    Matthew Yglesias wants to end asylum.  On a new episode of The Argument, Matt argues that the post-WWII asylum framework is not just politically untenable but practically unworkable.  Jerusalem Demsas, true to form, disagrees. New episodes post every Thursday. For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com.  Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    1hr 13min
  5. Can America still be a force for good?

    23 APR

    Can America still be a force for good?

    For the past century, America's foreign interventions often carried the pretense of liberal idealism – to help bring peace and prosperity to people around the world.  But it doesn't take a history scholar to know that positive outcomes weren't always the result.  In the latest episode of the Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the merits of liberal hypocrisy, its benefits and drawbacks, and whether it's worth bringing it back.  New episodes post every Thursday. For an ad-free version and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    1hr 3min
  6. Destroy the internet to save it?

    16 APR

    Destroy the internet to save it?

    People tend to defend online anonymity by pointing to the long tradition of anonymous speech in American democracy. But modern anonymity is an entirely new beast.  Should we ban anonymity on the internet? That's what The Argument's Jerusalem Demsas and Slow Boring's Matthew Yglesias debate in The Argument's latest episode. New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.  Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts Visit TheArgumentMag.com for show notes. (Illustration by The Argument, image by Jorge Quijite) Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    57 min
  7. Should Race Matter in College Admissions?

    9 APR

    Should Race Matter in College Admissions?

    When the Supreme Court rejected affirmative action at colleges and universities in 2023, finding that Harvard and the University of North Carolina practiced race-based discrimination against Asian American students, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote, "eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it."  The case, decided along ideological lines, caused a stir among progressives. But was this discrimination the inevitable consequence of affirmative action policies? Or did it simply give cover to people with genuinely racist beliefs? “The core problem with affirmative action — how it was being practiced, particularly at Harvard — is that they were just being racist to Asians … What was happening was not just like, ‘Oh, we’re all well-meaning people trying to improve [society]. These people had racist views about Asian Americans,” declared Jerusalem Demsas in The Argument’s premiere podcast episode. In this heated conversation, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem tackled affirmative action, an increasingly unpopular policy. And the Harvard case sits at the heart of the debate. “In a basic way,” lamented Matt, “it is not a good idea to be slotting people into racial and ethnic categories and judging them on that basis. It's not fair to people, and it's not healthy for society.” WATCH THE EPISODE HERE New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.  Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts Further reading: “Diversifying Society’s Leaders? The Determinants and Causal Effects of Admission to Highly Selective Private Colleges” by Raj Chetty, David J. Deming, and John N. Friedman “Breaking Systemic Barriers: Being Black in the Aquatic Sciences and Related Fields” by Lauren Pharr “Smartphones, Online Music Streaming, and Traffic Fatalities” by Vishal R. Patel, Christopher M. Worsham, Michael Liu, and Anupam B. Jena Corrections: 05:36 - Matt says “LSAT flunk rates” when he means “bar exam flunk rates.”07:06 - Jerusalem says “data from Sander’s” when she means “data from Sander’s critics.”18:46 - Jerusalem says Raj Chetty’s data shows that attending an elite school “doubles” the likelihood of reaching the top income quintile when she means “increases by 50%.”For more detailed show notes, visit TheArgumentMag.com (Photo: Harold M. Lambert/Archival Photos via Getty Images) Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    1hr 10min
  8. Matthew Yglesias vs. Jerusalem Demsas: The Trailer

    2 APR

    Matthew Yglesias vs. Jerusalem Demsas: The Trailer

    Watch the official trailer for The Argument — a new podcast cohosted by Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias. Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending? Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out. New episodes post every Thursday, starting April 9. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    1 min
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Trailer

About

Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out. New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. www.theargumentmag.com

Information

  • Creator
    Jerusalem Demsas & Matthew Yglesias
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    30
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Argument
  • Show Website
    The Argument

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