Get Me to the Gray

Paula Lehman-Ewing
  • 5.0 (6)
  • SOCIETY & CULTURE
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Get Me to the Gray, presented by COJA Services Inc., is a podcast about the conversations we’re told we shouldn’t have. Hosted by journalist and author Paula Lehman-Ewing, the show brings people with fundamentally different ways of seeing the world into honest dialogue—where we name what divides us and keep talking anyway.COJA Services Inc. works with mission-driven organizations and brands that are clear on their values but struggle to translate that clarity into public-facing language. We help teams align internal narratives, reduce confusion before it becomes mistrust, and translate complexity into public understanding without relying on scripts, rhetoric, or generic AI language that strips voice and judgment. If you're in the greater Denver metro area, register for our LIVE events at tinyurl.com/COJAEvents

Episodes

  1. 20H AGO

    Reform Meets Reality: Inside the Limits of Progressive Prosecution

    What happens when reform ideas collide with real institutions? In this episode, Paula speaks with Cristine Soto DeBerry, founder and executive director of the Prosecutors Alliance and former chief of staff to San Francisco district attorneys George Gascón and Chesa Boudin. Drawing on her experience inside one of the country’s most closely watched progressive prosecution offices, DeBerry describes the challenges of translating campaign promises into policy — and the institutional resistance that often follows. The conversation explores the tension between reform and public safety, the role of internal buy-in inside prosecutor’s offices, and the political pressures that shape reform efforts long after the election is over. It also examines a question reform movements continue to face: whether backlash reflects rejection of reform itself — or a loss of public trust when change fails to make people feel safer.Learn more about Prosecutors Alliance at prosecutorsalliance.org.For more information about Prosecutors Alliance C4 visit prosecutorsallianceaction.org.

    41 min

  2. FEB 17

    GMG LIVE: Whistleblowers, Abolition, and the Gray Space Between

    Recorded LIVE at Tattered Cover Book Store, Paula Lehman-Ewing speaks with retired NYPD lieutenant, whistleblower, and author Edwin Raymond about the unresolved tension between inside and outside approaches to change in policing. Edwin joined the NYPD after experiencing police harassment as a teenager, determined to challenge discriminatory practices from within. He later became the highest-ranking whistleblower in NYPD history and the lead plaintiff in the federal lawsuit Raymond v. City of New York. Together, Paula and Edwin explore the difficult questions that sit between reform and abolition: Can a system built to resist accountability actually change? Is incremental reform progress — or the system absorbing change to survive? Are justice-minded officers a path forward, or a contradiction? The conversation moves through whistleblowing, broken-windows policing, restorative justice, ICE enforcement, leadership, recruitment culture, and the emotional cost of challenging institutions from the inside. This episode doesn’t offer easy answers — it sits in the tension between two worldviews trying to imagine a different future for public safety. Recorded live in Denver with audience Q&A.To attend a LIVE recording visit bit.ly/COJAEventsLearn more about Edwin at edwinraymond.comWatch Crime + Punishment on YouTube or Hulu

    58 min

  3. FEB 3

    The Elephant in the Studio

    What happens when a liberal and a conservative sit down — not to debate, but to think out loud together? In this episode of Get Me to the Gray, Paula Lehman-Ewing speaks with Josh Lewis, a CPA, government auditor, and conservative writer behind Saving Elephants, about a core political divide: whether the systems we’ve inherited are capable of correcting harm, or whether they were built to benefit some while excluding others — and therefore need to be reimagined. Paula approaches the conversation from the perspective that questions preserving institutions that have consistently failed marginalized communities. Josh argues from a conservative framework that imperfect institutions may still be the most durable tools for reform. Together, they explore urgency versus restraint, reform versus rupture, and who bears the cost of change.  Note: There will be no new episode next Tuesday due to our live Get Me to the Gray event in Denver. If you’re local, we’d love to see you there. Tickets are available at tinyurl.com/COJAEvents. The recording from that conversation will be released here in two weeks.

    33 min

  4. JAN 27

    The Gray Between Punishment and Prevention

    What do we do when the stories we tell about violence stop helping us solve it? In this episode of Get Me to the Gray, Paula Lehman-Ewing sits down with criminologist David M. Kennedy to confront one of the most uncomfortable questions in public life: how do we reduce violence without falling into either punishment-for-punishment’s-sake or denial that harm is happening at all? The conversation unfolds inside a tension most people avoid. On one side is the instinct to respond to violence with overwhelming force. On the other is the belief that structural change alone will eventually make violence disappear. Kennedy argues that both approaches miss what’s actually happening on the ground — and that the truth lives in the space between them.To learn more about David Kennedy and focussed deterrence, visit nnscommunities.org.

    37 min

  5. JAN 20

    And You Thought You Lived in a Capitalist Country

    This episode is about getting to the heart of what capitalism and socialism mean and how no true example of either actually exists. In this episode of Get Me to the Gray, Paula Lehman-Ewing sits down with economist Doug Cardell for a candid, unscripted conversation that cuts through ideology and into reality. Together, they explore how capitalism and socialism are often treated as fixed, opposing systems—despite the fact that no true version of either exists in practice. What emerges is a conversation about power, implementation, and the gap between economic theory and lived experience. Rather than debating labels, this episode examines how systems actually function, who benefits from the way they’re structured, and why so many political arguments get stuck before they ever reach substance. It’s a conversation about tension, assumptions, and what happens when ideas meet the real world. Doug's book Why Socialism Struggles is now available for purchase, and you can learn more about him at DougCardell.com.

    30 min

  6. 12/12/2025

    Get Me to the Gray: Season 1 Trailer

    Welcome to Get Me to the Gray. This episode is the trailer. Hosted by journalist and author Paula Lehman-Ewing, the show creates space for conversations many of us avoid—across deep disagreement, uncertainty, and difference. This isn’t debate or performance, but dialogue that stays in the room when things get hard. Full episodes launch soon. Follow the show to be part of it from the beginning.

    2 min

Trailer

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
6 Ratings

About

Get Me to the Gray, presented by COJA Services Inc., is a podcast about the conversations we’re told we shouldn’t have. Hosted by journalist and author Paula Lehman-Ewing, the show brings people with fundamentally different ways of seeing the world into honest dialogue—where we name what divides us and keep talking anyway.COJA Services Inc. works with mission-driven organizations and brands that are clear on their values but struggle to translate that clarity into public-facing language. We help teams align internal narratives, reduce confusion before it becomes mistrust, and translate complexity into public understanding without relying on scripts, rhetoric, or generic AI language that strips voice and judgment. If you're in the greater Denver metro area, register for our LIVE events at tinyurl.com/COJAEvents

Information

  • Creator
    Paula Lehman-Ewing
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    6
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Paula Lehman-Ewing