Creative Alchemy

Alexandra Amor
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Creative Alchemy explores the healing properties of creative expression after a cult or other traumatic experience.

  1. 3d ago

    Finding Healing in Gender Transition with Comedy with Patti Savard

    Vancouver Island comedian Patti Savard also happens to be a transgender woman. She brings the subject of gender transition into her comedy. So the biggest question I had for her was, how do we laugh at something that is often perceived as being a very serious subject? I think you’ll appreciate her answer. In the introduction, I mention the unique early morning writing practice that Patti talks about during the interview. And I touch on how this conversation made clear to me how important it is for all of us to allow our creative expression to be what it wants to be. We don’t need to fit ourselves into a predetermined type of creativity. By its very nature, creativity is freedom and expresses itself in infinite ways. We do ourselves a favour when we allow that expression to take any form it wishes. Patti Savard is a Canadian comedian and comedy cabaret performer based in the Comox Valley, British Columbia. Blending stand-up, storytelling, theatrics, and song, Patti creates bold, heartfelt performances that explore identity, belonging, and the strange hilarity of being human.Her one-woman comedy cabaret, Life in Transition, combines razor-sharp wit with disarming honesty as Patti shares stories of living authentically in spaces one wouldn’t expect acceptance of a transwoman. Patti has performed at the Vancouver Just For Laughs Festival and was selected to present Life in Transition at the Glasgow International Comedy Festival, where the show has been nominated for the Sir Billy Connolly Spirit of Glasgow Award. Her work resonates with audiences through humour, vulnerability, and a joyful celebration of authenticity. You can learn more about Patti at her Instagram: pattisavard18 This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Performing stand-up for the very first time with three days notice Using comedy as a way to seek acceptance Developing a joke writing practice Receiving mentoring around comedy craft Getting honest feedback from a live audience  How comedy is about connection with the audience On writing jokes about the potentially serious subject of gender transition Changing minds and hearts through comedy How working through comedic material to make it authentic brings healing Using dreams as a springboard for creative expression How ‘weird’ is a beautiful expression of humanity Finding healing in helping others Resources mentioned in this episode Iconic Canadian tv show, Corner Gas Syd Bosel, comedian Eddie Murphy’s stand-up comedy film, Delirious Transcript of the interview with Patti Savard Alexandra: Patti Savard, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Patti: Thank you for having me. Alexandra: It’s so good to see you. Tell a little bit about who you are and a bit about your background. Patti: All righty. I am a comedian from the Comox Valley up in Courtenay. I’ve been doing it for going on five years now. I’ve performed in Toronto’s Massey Hall. I’ve performed in Just for Laughs, Vancouver.  This year, I performed in Glasgow, Scotland, at the Glasgow International Comedy Festival, and I was nominated for the Sir Billy Connolly Award, which was kind of cool. I absolutely love that man’s comedy. What a fantastic storyteller! So, to have a nomination associated to that guy’s name really feels good.  Other than that, I am a carpenter. I run my own business because I’m a Canadian comedian, and five years at this game. I don’t know how to tip the scales, but I don’t want to be a starving artist. And since I have skills, I am happy to use them. I’m a parent also, and I also have to make sure that I’m taking care of their financial obligations that fall on me. Alexandra: I hear you about the starving artist part. I don’t have the answer to how you can tip the scales either. I don’t know about that. Patti: It’ll come all things in time. I don’t know, or I don’t know. I keep doing goofy stuff at work too, so at least I’m not getting lost in the process.  I bought a a Kool Aid Man costume, and if you go on my Instagram, you’ll see a video of me running through a wall wearing that suit as I’m doing demolition, which I have written off on my taxes as a business expense because it’s for comedy purposes and for business purposes, it’s my demolition suit now. Alexandra: Exactly. Oh, that’s great. I wonder if you could write that off twice. Wouldn’t that be good? Patti: I think that’s illegal, but um, but okay. Alexandra: I saw you first when you gave a comedy show coordinated through a group that I belong to called Island Queers and Allies Who Care, and that was my first exposure to your work. And one of the things that really struck me was that you talk about your transition in comedy, and so I’m just wondering how that started. Let’s start at the beginning. Tell us about when you felt comfortable to start doing that. Patti: Sounds good. I actually started performing stand-up comedy right after transition, relatively immediately. It was a way of trying to see in front of a large group of people how I would be received as a human, but also, I think the entire process is very funny.  I was born in 1983, and so the the concept of transitioning from one gender to another is ludicrous in terms of all the beliefs that I was taught and everything, and so I think the whole act of it is brilliantly funny. I thought using comedy as a way of trying to force people to receive me was very effective, and it worked out. Yeah, so it it all started right at that moment.  Actually, as COVID came to an end, it was the very first event to happen in the Comox Valley. Right at that moment when we were allowed to have, I think up to 100 people in a space or something like that. Somebody organized an open mic comedy night, and I went and did it. And it was packed. There were literally exactly 100 people there, and I got really great laughs, and I became addicted. Alexandra: Had you always been a fan of comedy up to that point? Patti: Definitely, but not so much of a follower. I’d actually never been to a comedy show before. Alexandra: You’re kidding! Oh my god! Wow!  Where did you begin? How did you start writing jokes and that kind of stuff? Patti: Well, that week, I guess. In comedy, there’s the rule of threes, which is you know there’s certain jokes that you tell them like series of three things together, and usually works out if it’s a good joke.  I was working at a brewery in Comox. That’s another story on its own. I was having a bad day, and I just kind of joked around to myself because I was working by myself to try to make my day lifted, and I was like, “That’s kind of funny. Maybe I should write it down, because maybe if I’m having a bad day, I could just look at these stupid things I’ve written, and just cheer myself up.”  About an hour later, an older gentleman was walking past the brew house on the sidewalk and to my open garage door that I had there, and I started just goofing around with the guy, and he was like, “You’re so funny. You should be on Corner Gas.” Which, as a Canadian, is a very strange reference. It’s very directly Canadian. But again, it was like, “Oh, you think I’m funny too?”  And then my ex wife, well, we were married at the time. She came into the brew house another hour beyond that, and she said, “Hey, did you hear that? There’s an open mic comedy night happening at the other brewery in Courtney.” She told me that because being like, “Hey, that means we can have events now too,” but I took it as I should go perform at that.  So I wrote down everything that I thought was funny, and then three days later, I was up on the stage. Alexandra: Really, holy cow! And you said you got lots of laughs, so it was received well. Patti: It was, yeah. I mean, considering I only had a few days to write the jokes, they went okay. But like I said, the whole transition process is funny. So those jokes were up in the old vault. I just had to pull them out. Alexandra: It was stuff that you had been thinking of that was absurd for a while. It sounds like. Patti: Yeah, because I think life is a joke. Everything is a joke, and and and if you just have to see it. Alexandra: I want to talk about courage then. Being creative can require a lot of courage, and it’s something that people can avoid at times because it feels like maybe it requires too much of them, too much courage, too much exposure, that kind of thing.  Did you feel like it required courage from you to do this, or did you just take the leap? Patti: No, because you know, like telling my mom that I was trans and my dad, and like, oh yeah, my stepdad, just like my all my family, that was so hard, and so after once that was done, I was just like, I can do anything. Got it. Alexandra: Everything pales in comparison to that. It sounds like. Patti: Mind you. If you threw me in the middle of the ocean, without a boat, I’d probably be losing it. Alexandra: Do you have a practice? So that first show was really put together quickly. Did you develop a practice after that of writing jokes? Patti: Yes, I did. Fortunately, some of the other comedians were new to the Comox Valley and looking t

    Finding Healing in Gender Transition with Comedy with Patti Savard

  2. Sep 3

    Taking Ownership of Your Story with Hanna Etu

    Every human appreciates knowing they are not alone. When we have an experience – perhaps one of being in a cult or being an addict or being a single mother – we all want to know we are not alone in that experience. Two of the most powerful and reassuring words in the English language are “me too”. My guest today, Hanna Etu, works with neurodivergent and mad writers, supporting them to tell their stories so that others may find comfort in knowing they’re not alone. In the introduction, I talk about how I connected with Hanna’s work shepherding books, particularly memoirs, into the world. And how my memoir, Cult, A Love Story, came into being because of an unmet need I had to read someone’s personal story of being in a cult. Hanna Etu helps mad and neurodivergent writers establish a regular writing practice so they can finish their memoirs without losing the heart of their story. She has a book coaching certification in memoir and nonfiction from Author Accelerator. Her degrees in Creative Writing and Englishas well as a professional background in traditional book publishing give her unique insight into the craft, production, and marketing aspects of the writing/publishing processes.Hanna’s work-in-progress is a memoir about the loss of her brother to suicide and her personal history with mental illness.Hanna offers one-on-one coaching for writers struggling to finish their books, is gathering interest for a group program, as well as hosting free, monthly co-writing sessions for Substack subscribers. Learn more about Hanna at hannaetu.com This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show notes Working as a book coach with neurodivergent and ‘mad’ writers Taking ownership of a personal story by writing about it On supporting writers who have challenges with organization Getting to the central idea of what your book stands for Using specific tools to ensure the storytelling in a memoir is captivating Building small habits that support a writing practice How a first draft is often powerful for different reasons than we think Dealing with the challenges of writing about a very emotional subject Resources mentioned in this episode Hanna’s Substack piece about beginnings Madwomen in the Attic David Sedaris Mary Karr’s memoir Lit Jenny Lawson Transcript of the interview with Hanna Etu Alexandra: Hannah Etu, thank you for coming to Creative Alchemy and welcome. Hanna: Thank you so much for having me. Alexandra: Please tell us a little bit first about your background. Hanna: I am originally from Buffalo, New York. I have an English creative writing and German degree from Canisius University. I have an editorial background. I worked in publishing for a few years for a publishing company in Buffalo, and then when they were bought out by a bigger company, then I went elsewhere.  Now I am a certified book coach. I was certified by Author Accelerator in nonfiction and memoir. So now I am helping memoir writers, particularly neurodivergent and mad memoir writers, finish their books. Alexandra: Tell us what mad means, because I was new to that term when we started emailing. Hanna: Sure. Mad in this context is in reference to the Mad movement, so the mental health justice movement. People who may have had adverse mental health experiences, or people who have been negatively affected by the mental health system that may have been involuntarily institutionalized or involuntarily medicated, things like that. That’s typically what the MAD moniker refers to.  It’s comes from the ‘mad woman in the attic’ idea, from Jane Eyre. That’s kind of where that whole thing comes from. It’s reclaiming an older term, basically. Alexandra: Got it. What’s the reason that you chose to work with writers who are neurodivergent and part of the Mad community. Hanna: There’s a whole combination of reasons.  I am a lead organizer and regional literacy director for a grassroots feminist mental health literacy organization called Mad Women in the Attic. We advocate for people in the mental health system. And lately, our biggest work has been writing workshops because we’ve been able to connect with people all around the country.  It used to be more localized to Western New York, and now we’re doing work with people all around the world. Actually, we’ve had people in Canada, we’ve had people in Europe, all over the place. So we’ve been able to help people write their books, which has been really exciting. So that that is part of the mission.  The other part of it is that I’m also neurodivergent. I wasn’t diagnosed with anything until I was an adult with anxiety and general depression. And I tend to believe that I have other neurodivergences, but I’m just too high functioning to get a diagnosis. Nobody, none of my practitioners seem terribly interested in diagnosing me because I get through the day. The other the other reason is that both my brothers suffer from mental health issues, and my older brother died by suicide in 2018. So it’s a very personal issue, and I really want to connect with people who have had similar experiences to me or similar experiences to the people that I’ve worked with. It’s about a shared experience and validating people and advocating for themselves. It’s all about working through our difficulties and finding common bonds. Alexandra: Maybe give us a few examples of how you think writing memoir specifically fulfills those that goal, or helps people to heal and to connect and that kind of thing. Hanna: So with memoir, I think people find it cathartic to write their stories to talk about their traumatic experiences. I think it can be painful. I know personally it can be hard to write about difficult experiences, but I think people find it also find it empowering. In a way they’re taking ownership of their story and their writing. They’re taking ownership of the narrative, where the narrative has previously been written for them where they may have been in a place where somebody was making the decisions for them and telling a different story about who they are, and they’re now able to reclaim that. So I think that’s a big part of why a lot of people choose to write memoir. Alexandra: I think that’s so true. I was talking to somebody else the other day, and we phrased it in a slightly different way, but I think we were aiming at the same thing. Sometimes it’s the first time that someone can tell the truth about their experience, and more specifically, their own truth about their experience. And so that’s exactly what you’re talking about. That we get to take ownership of the narrative.  Hanna: Yeah, exactly. Alexandra: You mentioned that it’s a difficult experience, which it is.  What are some of the challenges or hurdles that you that your writers encounter when they begin this path? Hanna: There are the difficulties of writing about a traumatic experience and re-experiencing that and having to go through that again. There’s also the kind of experience, the kind of writing difficulties that neurodivergent writers have in general.  I’ve noticed a lot of these writers have difficulties with organization, and this isn’t like I can’t say that this is typical to everyone. Like everybody has their own individual experience, but I have noticed that many writers have expressed that they have a hard time keeping organized, keeping the writing organized, keeping a structure, keeping a regular practice-that’s something that a lot of the writers in this community struggle with.  I think a lot of writers, going back to the organization, they also have a hard time building a structure around their narrative because memoir is such a broad topic. Figuring out where to start, where to end, when to know what is the end, and and often these aren’t positive experiences.  These aren’t usually positive experiences, and they’re trying to end. I mean, you try to end the book on as positive a note as you can, and I think a lot of people have a hard time knowing when is it done? Is it done yesterday? Is it done a couple years ago? Like when? What period of time am I covering? And what is my mission? What is the objective? So there’s a lot of different issues that they deal with. Alexandra: That’s such a good point about wrapping up a book because when it’s a memoir, it’s about your life and your life isn’t over yet as you’re writing. So this may be an unfair question: Are there any tips that you have for finding a good place to end a memoir? Hanna: It’s funny because I’ve been wanting to write a Substack post about this and want to dig into some of my favorite memoirs. I think I would recommend reading a lot of memoir, especially by writers that you admire and writers who are writing in a similar subject matter, but particularly memoir writers, of course. I think seeing kind of comparing those.  I did this with beginnings. I did a Substack post on beginnings. Now, of course, I’ll have to be held to that. But I kind of analyze. I was like, this is really good because they get right into the action. They don’t give us extra exposition. They make us care. Right off the bat.  Now I want to kind of do the sa

    Taking Ownership of Your Story with Hanna Etu

  3. Aug 27

    Telling Our Truth in Writing with Bella Mahaya Carter

    Bella Mahaya Carter is an experienced writer and writing teacher. In this episode she shares how she used the support of an editor to meet that small, 1000 words per month goal as a way to break the enormous task of writing a memoir into small, achievable steps. In the introduction, inspired by this interview, I talk about thinking outside the box when we are looking for support for our creative projects. And I talk about a subject very close to my heart; the idea that writing and journaling can sometimes be the first time a cult survivor, or survivor of other trauma, tells the truth about their experience. And how powerful that can be. This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the Creative Alchemy journaling handbook. This free ebook guides cult and other trauma survivors into the healthy and healing practice of journaling. With a gentle hand and relying on her decades of writing experience, cult survivor Alexandra Amor encourages readers to develop a journaling practice as part of their healing path. Click here to get your complimentary copy. Bella Mahaya Carter is the award-winning author of three books including Where Do You Hang Your Hammock: Finding Peace of Mind While You Write, Publish, and Promote Your Book, a guide for writers.She is currently completing Ripe: A Memoir of the Lives We Carry, which explores intergenerational trauma, creativity, motherhood, and the stories we inherit—and choose to transform. Her writing has appeared in dozens of literary journals, and her last two books have received five book awards. Bella is the founder of Write Where You Are writing circles and has been teaching and coaching writers for more than twenty years. Her mission is to help writers explore what they’re carrying so they can write and live with greater truth, agency, and freedom. Learn more about Bella at BellaMahayaCarter.com You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes: Beginning as a dancer and moving into filmmaking and then writing Discovering Shakespeare in college and falling in love with the musicality of his writing Starting to write a book about family secrets several decades ago Writing about what we inherit from family and what we choose to carry forward Finding the question at the heart of a memoir Learning to write in micro and flash non-fiction Using a monthly editorial deadline to support getting a book written What a story teaches us as we write it How it’s never too late to begin Using journaling to access the wise parts of ourselves How ‘no’ can often just mean ‘not yet’ Why being seen and recognized is an inside job Why we can begin a creative project before you feel ready Find the thing that will help you get out of your own way Resources Mentioned in this Episode Bella’s writing circles, Write Where You Are Bella’s Substack, Flying Lessons for Writers Creative Alchemy journaling handbook Transcript of Interview Alexandra: Bella Mahaya Carter, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Bella: Thank you. It’s great to be here. Alexandra: Great to have you here. Give us a little bit about your background, Bella. Maybe your education and your writing background. Bella: Okay, I’ll start with my education. My post-secondary school education started at the Juilliard School. I was a dancer, and I had a back injury and had to stop dancing, and went to college at Scripps College in Claremont, California, which is a small liberal arts college for women.  After that, I actually went to film school at USC, the School of Cinematic Arts, and I got a master of fine arts degree in filmmaking with an emphasis in screenwriting. I taught in the screenwriting department as a teaching assistant.  10 years went by, and I did a lot of writing, and then I went back to school for another master’s degree in spiritual psychology, and that really changed my life. That work, so that’s my educational. I went to the University of Santa Monica in Santa Monica, so that’s my educational background.  My writing background is-I really didn’t know I was a writer until when I went to Scripps College. Well, I didn’t even know I was a writer then. I was a dancer, and I wasn’t a great reader. I think I had some maybe dyslexia or some kind of neurodivergency, so I wasn’t a reader as a kid, which just makes me so sad even now to this day.  But I discovered Shakespeare in college, and I thought how could somebody write plays in poetry, and I just loved it. I used to listen to the old records while reading my Pelican Shakespeare in the library for hours. I could lose myself just listening to the language and the poetry, and I knew that I loved it. And then I took another class with that same teacher on contemporary women writers, and just loved it, loved it, loved it.  I didn’t know I was a writer yet. I went to film school because I thought, well, my background is dance, and now I’m interested in literature. And I thought, well, maybe combining dance and literature, I could find my way through through movie making. And I was in Los Angeles, but what I discovered in film school, I was one of maybe five women in the program. It was very it was a very male dominated environment, and I thought also I don’t really like Hollywood that much.  So around that time, I stumbled into a creative writing workshop, and I remember that the teacher he was teaching a UCLA extension class. His name was Jack Grapes, and he wrote this incredible poem about menstruation. And he read it, and I thought to myself, any man who could write about menstruation in that way is someone I think I would like to study with. And I studied with Jack for five years, and that was just the beginning of many many years of writing. Haven’t stopped writing since. Alexandra: Nice. Oh, that’s great. And you’re the author of several books, including a memoir called Raw about. Oh, my mind is going blank. Anxiety. Bella: Yeah, my three books are right behind me. Secrets of My Sex, is a collection of poems, and there’s Raw, My Journey from Anxiety to Joy. And there’s Where Do you Hang Your Hammock? Finding peace of mind while you write, publish, and promote your book. Alexandra: Right, and we’re going to come back to your writing classes and that kind of thing in just a minute. But I want to start with the project you’ve been working on for the last couple of years, so tell us about that. Bella: You mean my whole life? Alexandra: Yes, yes, exactly. Tell us about that project. Start wherever you want. Bella: My current project is called Ripe: A Memoir of the Lives We Carry, and I kind of officially started writing it over 35 years ago, and but really there were whispers of family secrets and the rupture that had happened in our family.  My mom was a great researcher, and she always would whisper the family, some of the family stories to me. Not all of them, the rest of them took me years to learn. But this seed was always planted.  My grandfather was a poet and a journalist, so I think it was kind of in my blood. But I wrote this 500-page mess of a manuscript 35 years ago. Didn’t know what to do with it, so I put it away in my file cabinet. And at around that time, I was also thinking about becoming a mother. And really, what the book is about, it’s a memoir about what we inherit and what we choose to carry forward. I think the question that is at the heart of the memoir for me was, how do I create life without surrendering my own or perpetuating inherited pain? And though I didn’t have the writing skills or the maturity, or the experience, and many other things to to write that that project in my 30s. I discovered about four years ago that I was revisiting that project.  I had discovered the 100 word story format, fell in love with concise forms and real and started mining two manuscripts. I had one was a manuscript about my high risk pregnancy, the other was a manuscript about the ancestor story, and I just started plucking from those manuscripts.  And then after about two years of doing that, I thought I’m going to ask my publisher at She Writes Press, if she thinks this is a viable way to approach a memoir. Because it was in micro and flash stories, so the stories could be anywhere from 50 words to 1000 words. And when I showed it to her, she loved it. She said, “I think this is the future of memoir because we have shorter attention spans. I think that this hybrid form is going to be very, very popular.” So that was in May of 2024, and I’m almost done. Out of the 200 stories, I think I have about eight left to write.  Alexandra: And it sounds like you had a plan, if you know how many stories are left. What’s that based on?  Bella: Well, actually, I just figured that out today. Alexandra: Oh, okay. Bella: I had a rough idea of what material I needed to cover at the end, and I am at the beginning of every month. So at the end of every month, I send my editor at least a minimum of 1000 words, and then I start fresh on the next journey, the next chapter series of chapters.  At the beginning of the month, I’m always like, I’m never going to make my deadline. I don’t know how I’m going to do this, but because what happens is I dig into archives. I have family, archives. Last month, I read 32 letters written by my great-grandmother in 1961, and I had to create one composite letter conveying her experience, like a literary piece, rather than just using her letters.  This month, the end of the story is my experience with the repair of the family, and so I actually read yesterday my journal from when I was in Italy in 1994 with my mother, meeting the family and discovering

    Telling Our Truth in Writing with Bella Mahaya Carter

  4. Aug 20

    Art Therapy for Cult Survivors with Natalee Bigger Stockdale

    Natalee Bigger Stockdale is a cult survivor and an art therapist. In this episode, Natalee and I talk about the healing power of creative expression for cult survivors, and other survivors of trauma. Among other topics, Natalee points out that when we use visual means of creative expression (painting, drawing, etc.) we bypass the language areas of our brain, which accesses other parts of ourselves that need healing. She also talks about how creative expression is an excellent tool for helping us recover our sense of self after being in a high-demand group. In the introduction, I talk about a recent article that highlights the art therapy being made available to wildfire evacuees in Penticton, British Columbia. This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. Natalee Bigger Stockdale holds a bachelor’s degree in studio art and business from the University of Northwestern and a master’s degree in clinical mental health counseling and art therapy from Adler Graduate School. She has worked in clinical practice as a Board-Certified Art Therapist (ATR-BC), Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor (LPCC), and is a Board-Certified Neurofeedback provider (BCN-L). Natalee completed a postgraduate certificate in the Psychology of Coercive Control (PgCert) through Salford Univeristy and has relocated to purse doctoral work with Florida State University in the Art Therapy Practice and Research Program, supporting the recovery journey of victims of exploitative persuasion. Self-portrait by Natalee Bigger Stockdale Connect with Natalee at LinkedIn. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Discovering art therapy after immersion in music and ceramics On meeting her husband who had also been in a cult On Adlerian psychology and its core tenant of belonging How making art reflects how we present ourselves in the world Coming to enjoy recovery work with those from high demand groups Getting involved with a somatic drumming group as a licensed therapist that turned out to be high demand When is it safe to explore art therapy after a high demand experience? How making art bypasses the language centres of the brain How to find an art therapist to work with Suggestions for using art on our own to heal Resources mentioned in this episode Article at the CBC website about art therapy for wildfire evacuees The International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA) The Lalich Center on Cults and Coercion The American Art Therapy Association   The Canadian Art Therapy Association   Julia Cameron and The Artist’s Way Transcript of Interview with Natalee Bigger Stockdale Alexandra: Natalee Bigger Stockdale, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Natalee: Thank you, Alexandra. It’s nice to be here. Alexandra: It’s great to have you here. Tell us a little bit about your background. Natalee: Sure. I know we’ll probably get into the professional part because that’ll be part of art therapy. But for me personally, I grew up in Iowa in the U.S. So Midwestern girl, kind of rural and small town. I always loved art; was really drawn to that. But I was trained in classical music. That was my mom’s dream for me and our family. And it was easy for me. Still worked, but I think the thing that was the easiest and just came out of me naturally as a maybe like a native language, if you will, or native expressive mode was through visual. When I was in high school, I had a really wonderful art teacher, and after I graduated, she told me art was always easy for you, and so that helped me define myself as an artistic person. Although I had all this classical training in music, and that’s what I decided to pursue in college. Even though it’s like a maybe a starving artist degree, I’m lucky that it ended up where I am. I’ve always followed my heart that way, and really value being led. I guess, like by my intrinsic interests. Let’s see what else. I love being outside and out in the forest. That’s always something that’s drawn me back to myself is trying to get near, especially rivers. They just call me. Alexandra: You moved from undergraduate work into a greater interest in art therapy. How did that happen? Natalee: I moved from Iowa up to the Twin Cities for my undergrad degree. I focused mostly on painting and ceramics, and then I spent about seven years in production ceramics. And it is hard work. It’s takes a toll on your body, my body, and there are a lot of different things. You don’t talk a whole lot. It’s a lot of numbers. I did glaze testing for a while, mixing dry chemicals. I did a lot of slip casting for my own work and dry clay mixing, so it was pretty. I don’t know. I guess it was it was fun and playful at sometimes, but it’s also this thing that turns into a job with deadlines and the hustle. And so, along with that, I would say in that realm, a lot of folks are there just for the art and production, not necessarily self-reflection and internal exploration. I was always longing for that and missing that when it wasn’t happening in the production scene, and so I ended up moving. I had a roommate who was trying to get to New York for an art therapy degree, and I had heard about art therapy before. And it lit me up, and I had that intrinsic draw towards it, and I didn’t feel like I could pull off New York, but Minnesota had a one school that offered a master’s degree, and so eventually I was able to become stable enough. Actually, met my husband. Maybe I’ll do a little segue here. He loves telling this story. We both were in high demand groups, and he had never found really any help or anyone who understood that. He had gone to therapy and started unpacking some some of his own stuff, and he had gotten married while he was trying to escape this hiding group, and realized that that relationship wasn’t ever a match. It was more of a like escape route, and so that was dissolving. As he was in therapy trying to figure out the next direction, I guess we ended crossing paths, and I thought he was total trouble. I was afraid of being attracted to someone, and I would say he was the first person that I was genuinely ever attracted to, and which is kind of bonkers, I guess. We end up going on a date. It goes great, super great. Then the and we went to American Craft Council show. So talk about creativity. We’re in creative spaces, looking at aesthetics and beauty and craft. And we go on a second date, and we’re walking around Lake Harriet in Minneapolis, and he all of a sudden changes, and I’m like, what is going on? He just went into a turtle shell, and I think I had asked a question where the timeline wasn’t like clear. You know, you’re like trying to get to know this person you’re like interested in. He turns to me and I could tell he expected rejection, and he goes, “Well, I was part of a cult.” To this day he’ll say that he thought I was going to be like, okay, bye. And I was so relieved when he said that. My eyes got big, and I took a step towards him, and I just said, me too. We’ve been inseparable ever since. Alexandra: Oh wow! I’m getting chills all over when you said that. Natalee: Yeah. So that’s it. He’s a really big gift to me. I think we are to each other. And long story short, up to how I got into grad school. Life finally became stable for both of us in a lot of different ways when we found each other, and I was able to pursue that dream of getting an art therapy degree, and got into private practice, and this is a key point, though, with my specific degree. I was trained in Adlerian psychology, and quick snippet. I guess this is like nothing that I wrote on the paper question, but maybe it’ll be interesting. Adler, Freud, and Young were all contemporaries. Adler is easily forgotten in the history or lineage of psychology because he was actually the president of Freud’s publishing house, and he disagreed with Freud publicly in one of the forums about women being inferior, and that our core drive was of a sexual nature. Freud called a vote, and they voted him out. He was excommunicated, and all of his publishings in Freud’s journal were revoked. And so Adler went away and continued develop to develop what we call individual psychology. It’s its own branch of psychology, and it’s at its core, it’s about belonging. The desire to belong with our fellow human is our core. It determines our behavior of how this is going to help me secure a position with people around me. Whether that’s a tragic strategy to meet that need or a beneficial one is more of the question. And he was really into the creative life force, so that everybody is a unique creative expression. Their personhood, their personality, and anytime we interact with someone different, it’s actually like a whole different painting, if you will, or like a whole different, even hybrid. Like when two different people come together, that’s even a new thing. So for me, it dovetails into art therapy really well because there’s the meta level, but then when it comes down into the materials and working with someone in materials in a clinical way, it’s you’re seeing that person in a projective exercise, and not only in what they create, but how they create it, how they choose to sort

    Art Therapy for Cult Survivors with Natalee Bigger Stockdale

  5. Aug 13

    Developing Memoir Writing Skills with Christi Christiaens

    Christi Christiaens belonged to an immortality cult for 30 years. Her book, Wager on Forever, explores how she was drawn into the cult, how the trio of cult leaders applied the usual strategies to keep their followers on the hook, and how Christi was ultimately able to leave the group. Unfortunately, in order to do this, she had to leave her adult son behind. He’s still involved with the cult as of this recording. Based on what she shares in this interview, the writing process was healing for Christi, and you’ll hear her talk about why that was and what it looked like for her. It’s not an easy thing to do, to write about a traumatic experience, especially one that was 30 years in the making and I am so impressed with Christi’s drive and determination to tell her story.

    Developing Memoir Writing Skills with Christi Christiaens

  6. Aug 13

    Writing Out from Under the Shadow of Polygamy with Maggie Rayner

    Maggie Rayner is the author of In Polgamy’s Shadow. She grew up in a branch of the Mormon church that was not polygamist, but that does not mean that polygamy didn’t have an effect on her family. As Maggie shares in this interview, among the many other challenges she experienced as a Mormon child, she and one of her sisters had a very close call with being recruited into the polygamous community of Bountiful, BC in the 1960s. They avoided that fate, but couldn’t avoid the other impacts that the church had on their lives. Eventually, as an adult, Maggie was able to write her book and, as you’ll hear, the writing process played a big part in the healing process.

    Writing Out from Under the Shadow of Polygamy with Maggie Rayner

  7. Aug 13

    Creative Alchemy episode 1: Writing My Way Out of a Cult with Alexandra Amor

    What happens when we use creative expression to help us heal from a traumatic experience like being in a cult? That's what I'm here to explore in Creative Alchemy. In this first episode, I share a bit about my story of joining a cult at the age of 22 in 1989 in Vancouver, BC, Canada. And I talk about how the recovery from that experience included a couple forms of writing, including journaling and eventually sharing about my experience in a memoir.

    Creative Alchemy episode 1: Writing My Way Out of a Cult with Alexandra Amor

  8. 06/20/2024

    Pausing and Stepping Into Quiet

    Hello explorers, and welcome to episode 68 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m here today with a little announcement. As you possibly saw in the title of this episode, I’ve called it pausing and stepping into quiet. I’m feeling a really strong urge lately to do just that, to pause things, step into the silence, spend a lot of time in quiet. We’re coming into summertime, here on the west coast of Vancouver Island, as I record this, and the days are getting longer and sunnier. And it’s not so much that I want to spend more time in the sun because I’m not really that type of person. But I do just want to spend time in quiet right now. And slow down a little bit and listen for wisdom, really. This episode is a little announcement letting you know that that’s what’s happening. I will keep you posted on any future directions or things that go on. Hopefully I’ll be back in a few weeks or a couple of months or whatever it is however long it lasts. I really feel drawn to just listening to wisdom, listening to my intuition, that kind of thing and following those nudges. So that’s what’s pulling me at this moment. For the next few weeks, I hope you are doing great, doing really well taking good care of yourself. Please remember that we are all always unbroken. Take care, bye. Featured image photo by Jack Church on Unsplash The post Pausing and Stepping Into Quiet appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books.

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4.4
out of 5
26 Ratings

About

Creative Alchemy explores the healing properties of creative expression after a cult or other traumatic experience.

Information

  • Creator
    Alexandra Amor
  • Years Active
    2016 - 2026
  • Episodes
    125
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Show Website
    Creative Alchemy

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