To continue with the podcast relaunch on our second show, we were able to meet for a second time with Sherrif Karamat, President & CEO of PCMA as well as with Greg O'Dell, Chairman of the 2019 PCMA Board of Directors. We caught up with them at PCMA's EduCon in Los Angeles. This time we covered a wide range of topics, but we focused on two important topics in both the world and within the meetings industry today. First was a discussion of diversity and inclusion, and the benefits of diverse skills and points of view in creating successful events. The second topic was human trafficking, and how raising the awareness in our industry and can provide a huge increase in opportunities to recognize and stop this serious international issue. TRANSCRIPT: JON: Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Jon Trask, I’m your host and I'm here with Sheriff Karamat, the President and CEO of PCMA, and Mr. Greg O’Dell, the chairman of the 2019 PCMA Board of Directors. So welcome, gentlemen. GREG: Thank you, Jon. SHERRIF: Thank you for having us. JON: I'm very happy to see you again. We talked recently up at WEC in Toronto, and now we're down in Los Angeles at your EduCon. SHERRIF: Yeah, the world we live in is exciting, isn't it? So now in Los Angeles, wow. JON: We're just jetting all over. And that's one of the things that I've actually always appreciated about our business is the opportunity to travel and see places and get to go, places I might not normally get to go to on my own. SHERRIF: Yes, and experience many different cultures, different cities. JON: Absolutely, yeah, it's been a great part of the business for me. And you guys are having a great event here it seems. Just to touch on that briefly before we dive into the real topics. SHERRIF: Absolutely. I, you know, I love EduCon. It's event that we actually really get to visit with people. It's just a manageable size. And this year, bit larger than normal. Our largest EduCon in history. About 950 participants JON: Very nice. SHERRIF: And we've been creating some really interesting experiences. And I've been enjoying LA as well. Look at this city, it's vibrant. So, I have this thing that I'm comparing PCMA to LA. And so, here's my comparison…I absolutely think there's a renaissance, there's a transformation, there's a revival going on with the city. And I think it mirrors with all the exciting things that are happening at the PCMA. And so that's, that's my comparison is to, to a city and an organization that's on the move. JON: Both of them coming together. SHERRIF: Absolutely. JON: Yeah, this this area, I mean, I'm a native of Southern California. And this was not an area that you would necessarily want to visit around the convention center. Even a decade ago, it doesn't seem. And so what they've done here, with the expansion and growth and the hotels, and all of that is really, really changed the whole complexion of this part of the city, GREG: I would just echo two (of) Sherrifs comments from LA’s perspective and all the partners. You know, it's interesting before PCMA EduCon started, they had another major event here with the BET experience. And so, the transformation that happened from that event to ours was seamless. And I think, you know, hats off to the LA team. And they've been amazing and supportive hosting this event as well. JON: They're very good, very accustomed to large, high profile events and working through them. I know, I did something at the event deck over here at LA Live a few years back, and it was the same time as a basketball game, and the Disney Radio Awards going on in the theater. And yet, you know, everything flowed smoothly and worked out really well. GREG: That's right. JON: So, what we were really going to talk about today, though, is when we were in Toronto, we talked about like numbers and data and things around the meetings, and I wanted to maybe talk with you a little bit more about the human side of the business. And I know there's an initiative that you started the Ascent Initiative. And I did a little bit of reading on that, and about inclusion and diversity within our industry. So I thought that would be where we could start today talking about that diversity and inclusion. SHERRIF: Sure. So, you know, you actually get an extra point on my radar today, because you said the word inclusion before you said diversity. Because for me, diversity is an outcome of being inclusive. And so PCMA is all inclusiveness and it's about inclusiveness, because that's the way we learn, and we challenge the status quo more than ever. Without actually been being inclusive, you will never know everything. And the more perspectives the more diverse backgrounds, the more different mindsets that we bring to the table…And we grow, we learn, we create better experiences. So PCMA has started the Ascent Program for a number of reasons. And the CEO pledge. And one was looking at diversity and inclusion, and so forth in a different lens; and we looked at SAP Users, SAP today is the most diverse company in the world, because it was the most inclusive company in the world. And it is, it's labeled that simply because not because they will be altruistic and good. They actually had a need, and they had a need in computation, and mathematics. And they had, they had complex mathematical problems that they had to solve. And they couldn't find people that could help them solve this problem. Well guess how they went about it, they actually, they went, went looking. And then what they discovered was that people with autism actually had incredible mathematical and computational skills. So, they started hiring people on the autism spectrum. Today, SAP has more than 250 people working in their employment, that are on the autism spectrum. And talk about inclusion…But it was this notion that you can do good, but it's good for business. And that has actually served their pocketbooks and they're bottom line, much better than then just you know, going to some traditional route. So, inclusiveness has many forms, many, many ways that you can be inclusive. But we've got to look beyond race, and gender and so forth, and really truly think of what inclusiveness is all about. So that we can bring different perspectives and different ideas. JON: That's, that's been something that, that I've got a personal education on a little bit over the past few years, because I've been, I had some surgeries on my back. And I've been getting around with a cane and had some mobility issues. And you, you start to learn a lot of things you didn't realize, when you're not exactly the same person that you were a year before. And you have these challenges of maybe walking a long distance or something, and you get into a huge facility and signage and things like that. So, it really opened my eyes personally, few years back, and I've talked to someone who's shown up in year convene magazine, Joan Eisenstodt. I've interviewed Joan a few times about that, and actually taken her class where she will put people in the experience of having some challenge, and let them kind of walk in those shoes. And I think doing that is very eye opening to people. So that's one thing that I recommend is trying to look at the world from some other perspectives. And thinking about that. GREG: I mean, I agree. Everything with Sherrif said and I think inclusion so important. But you know, the reality on the last point you just made, you know, there are there are real diversity issues. And I think people's bottom line or company's bottom lines are better serve when they actually serve that diversity audience. The best way to do that is to have diversity within. And so, I think we had one of the most powerful, amazing speakers today, Tamika Catchings, who happened to be African American and happened to be a woman. But I think everyone in that room who experienced it today saw her compelling story first. But there are those who resonate with her for those reasons as well. And so, I think it's important that we recognize that but also in an inclusive manner. SHERRIF: So, I'm just going to add to that one as in terms of performance of companies. Companies that are inclusive and are diverse; as a result, performed 41% better than companies that are not; return on investment, return on equity. So, it is just it is, you know, the data is there to support the fact. So, I also want to touch it, but your issue and your back. And so, we want what I like about the nomenclature today that's changing is sort of, we used to say people with disability. Right, and it's such a terrible term. What about people with special abilities? Right? Because they do have; so, think of the autism spectrum. We would (say), oh, they’ve got a disability? No, no, no, they've got a remarkable ability. And it's, it's just about being inclusive and understanding that we understand that these people Tamika this morning that you reference her, and her hearing challenges that she faced and that created a lot of other adversities for her. And it's, it's so I mean, how she broke those barriers down. I mean, it takes a very special person. But you know, I don't know, I think that we, shedding light to these issues is so important, talking about them in a non-threatening way. And, and I go back to the old line, you know, when we meet face to face…So, I think that…I wonder what if people never saw to Mika if they only saw a black woman. And when you saw her today, actually, you just saw just a wonderful individual. You couldn't give it any care about race or gender, just a person. JON: Right, someone who's done amazing things. SHERRIF: Yeah. And you want to, you know…just love this person, because of just that. You're just a wonderful… So I think that it just allows you to break down those barriers. JON: And so in in a perfect world, I was