Gospel Tangents Podcast

Rick B
  • 4.5 (130)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Semiweekly

A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

  1. 1d ago

    Unexpected Book of Mormon & Revolutionary War Link (Thomas Murphy 3 of 4)

    Are there echoes of Book of Mormon & Revolutionary War? When we talk about the relationship between early Mormonism and Native American communities, the conversation usually runs in one direction: how indigenous traditions may have influenced Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. But in this segment of our conversation with Dr. Thomas Murphy, author of Unsettling Scripture: Iroquois and the Book of Mormon, we explore something far less discussed — how Haudenosaunee communities weren’t just absorbing outside religious ideas, they were producing scriptural traditions of their own. https://youtu.be/5H7qSRgK5lc At the center of this discussion is the Seneca prophet Handsome Lake, who in the early 1800s developed a body of teachings — now known as the Code of Handsome Lake — blending traditional Haudenosaunee spirituality with elements adapted from the Christian missionaries who were increasingly present in Native communities at the time. Murphy argues that Handsome Lake’s movement deserves to be understood on its own terms: not simply as a reaction to Christianity, but as a genuine act of religious innovation, produced by Native leaders navigating a rapidly changing world. It’s a reminder that the flow of religious ideas during this period wasn’t one-directional, and that Native communities were active shapers of their own spiritual futures, not passive recipients of outside influence. From there, Murphy turns to something that surprises many readers: possible echoes of Onondaga language, geography, or tradition embedded within the Book of Mormon text itself. While these connections remain a matter of scholarly debate, Murphy lays out why he believes they deserve more serious attention than they’ve typically received, especially given the documented presence of Haudenosaunee students and communities in and around the Smith family’s world in upstate New York. Book of Mormon & Revolutionary War The conversation then shifts to a period most listeners will recognize from American history class, but rarely connect to Mormon origins: the Revolutionary War. Murphy highlights the often-overlooked role of the Oneida Nation, one of the few Haudenosaunee nations to formally ally with the American colonists during the war, and explores why this alliance — and its long-term consequences — matters for understanding the world the Smith family grew up in decades later. It’s a piece of history that rarely gets mentioned in conversations about the Book of Mormon’s origins, but Murphy argues it shouldn’t be treated as a footnote. Taken together, this segment challenges listeners to think about the relationship between Native American history and early Mormonism as something more complicated — and more mutual — than a simple story of influence flowing in one direction. Murphy’s research suggests a much richer, messier picture: one where Native nations were simultaneously responding to colonization, encountering Christianity, allying with revolutionary movements, and building their own theological frameworks, all while living in close proximity to the very family that would go on to produce the Book of Mormon. This is part 3 of our 4-part series with Dr. Thomas Murphy. In our previous segments, we covered his background and the controversial DNA research that first made him a controversial figure within LDS scholarship, along with the Dartmouth/Moor’s Charity School connection between the Smith family and Haudenosaunee students. In our next and final segment, Murphy tackles perhaps the biggest question of all: can the Book of Mormon be both fiction and scripture at the same time? Listen to the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t miss our other conversations with Thomas: https://gospeltangents.com/people/thomas-murphy/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Check out a transcript of the interview on Amazon. 1:21 – Indigenous Response to Christianity & Handsome Lake’s Visions 6:36 – Jesus in Haudenosaunee Tradition & Comparison with King Lamoni 9:40 – Three Nephites, Four Thunders & Joseph Smith’s Christianization 12:01 – Zelph, Onondagas & Giants 16:17 – Oneidas, Lafayette & the Book of Mormon as Revolutionary War Allegory 19:07 – Amalickiah & Ammoron as Sir William Johnson & Joseph Brant

  2. 4d ago

    Native American Seer Stones & Hats (Thomas Murphy 2 of 4)

    Did Native Americans use seer stones? What if the roots of the Book of Mormon’s narrative trace back not just to revelation, but to a classroom? Book of Mormon Ties to Darmouth? In this second part of our conversation with anthropologist Dr. Thomas Murphy, we explore a detail of Smith family history that rarely gets discussed: Hyrum Smith’s education at Dartmouth’s Moor’s Indian Charity School, where he studied alongside Haudenosaunee students. It’s a small historical fact with potentially large implications for how we understand the origins of the Book of Mormon. https://youtu.be/9nNErpiSeb8 Don’t miss our other conversations with Thomas: https://gospeltangents.com/people/thomas-murphy/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Check out a transcript of the interview on Amazon. Shared Classroom, A Shared World Moor’s Charity School was founded with the explicit purpose of educating Native American students alongside colonial settlers. Hyrum Smith — Joseph Smith’s own brother — sat in classrooms with Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) peers! This raises a compelling question: how much of the cultural and spiritual knowledge exchanged in that setting might have made its way, directly or indirectly, into the Smith family’s later religious project? Murphy doesn’t claim to have all the answers, but he makes a compelling case that this connection deserves far more attention than it has historically received. Seer Stones and the Zelph Story Zelph was a supposed ancient warrior whose bones Joseph Smith claimed to have identified during Zion’s Camp. Murphy examines whether these practices and stories reflect genuine Native American spiritual traditions, Mormon religious innovation, or some blend of both — a question that sits at the heart of his broader research. This is part 2 of our multi-part conversation with Dr. Thomas Murphy on his book Unsettling Scripture: Iroquois and the Book of Mormon. Subscribe to Gospel Tangents to follow the rest of the series, where we’ll explore Onondaga and Oneida connections, the ethics of Book of Mormon archaeology, and the long-running Heartland versus Mesoamerica debate. Gospel Tangents is dedicated to exploring Mormon history, science, and theology through in-depth conversations with scholars, historians, and researchers. Chapters 0:00 Dartmouth / Moor’s Indian Charity School Connection 4:00 Cultural Context, Not Plagiarism 9:27 Susquehanna Valley & Indigenous Prophetic Movements 12:20 Seer Stone Divination & Haudenosaunee Parallels 15:58 Catalyst Theory 18:38 Handsome Lake as Parallel Scripture Don’t miss our other conversations with Thomas: https://gospeltangents.com/people/thomas-murphy/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Check out a transcript of the interview on Amazon.

  3. Sep 7

    Book of Mormon’s Hidden Connection to Native Americans (Thomas Murphy 1 of 4)

    Can rigorous DNA research and religious scripture coexist? Years ago, Murphy’s groundbreaking DNA research directly challenged traditional Book of Mormon claims about Native American origins. It was a stance that put him at odds with his own stake president and nearly cost him his membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For many in the Mormon studies world, Murphy’s name has been synonymous with that controversy ever since. Now, Murphy returns to Gospel Tangents with something new: his first full-length book, Unsettling Scripture: Iroquois and the Book of Mormon. And this time, the conversation isn’t just about DNA — it’s about history hiding in plain sight. https://youtu.be/NYOCqWRKC6w Don’t miss our other conversations with Thomas: https://gospeltangents.com/people/thomas-murphy/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Check out a transcript of the interview on Amazon. Book of Mormon Connection Few Have Considered Murphy’s central argument in this episode is striking: the Smith family had real, documented contact with Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) communities living near Palmyra, New York, in the years leading up to the Book of Mormon’s publication. Rather than treating the Book of Mormon’s narrative as emerging in a vacuum, Murphy asks what it means that Joseph Smith grew up in close proximity to a living, sophisticated Native nation with its own oral traditions, history, and worldview. It’s a question that doesn’t get asked nearly often enough in Mormon history circles — and Murphy brings decades of anthropological training to bear on it. Why This Conversation Matters Whether your interest lies in: Mormon history and the origins of the Book of Mormon DNA and genealogy research as it intersects with religious claims Native American history, specifically Haudenosaunee/Iroquois communities Or the broader question of how faith and scholarship can coexist — this conversation offers a rare perspective from someone who has spent his career at the intersection of all three. Chapters 0:00 Thomas’s Background in Indigenous Studies/DNA 3:29 DNA Research Impact 8:10 FARMS/FAIR attacks, taking a break from Mormon studies 12:02 Unsettling Scripture Overview 16:31 Parallels between Book of Mormon and Haudenosaunee narratives Watch or Listen to the Full Conversation This is the first of four segments in our conversation with Dr. Thomas Murphy. Subscribe to Gospel Tangents to catch the rest of the series, where we’ll dig into topics ranging from seer stone divination to the ongoing Heartland versus Mesoamerica geography debate. Or you can get the whole episode at Patreon.com/gospeltangents Unsettling Scripture: Iroquois and the Book of Mormon by Dr. Thomas Murphy is available now. Don’t miss our other conversations with Thomas: https://gospeltangents.com/people/thomas-murphy/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Check out a transcript of the interview on Amazon.

  4. Aug 27

    Remembering David Nielsen (Full Interview)

    David Nielsen passed away a couple of weeks ago when he fell off a ladder. His death was a very sad surprise. He leaves behind 3 wives, a wonderful family, and a shocked and saddened community of friends. We’re remembering him in this video. He served as an apostle for the Nielsen-Naylor Group. In this 2025 interview, he gives an introduction to this Mormon fundamentalist group. https://youtu.be/vaglaO6_lFk David Nielsen David Nielsen was an apostle for his church. CHAPTERS 0:00 FLDS Splits 7:35 One Man Rule 21:03 Changing Succession 24:37 Council of Friends/High Council 30:05 More than One True Church/Priesthood 32:34 Young Men Ordination/Missions 39:48 Women Propose Marriage 56:52 Mission to FLDS? 1:01:31 Rosetti’s Book on Musser 1:05:00 Church Services 1:17:48 Temple/Priesthood Theology 1:37:32 Black Ban in Nielsen-Naylor 1:45:55 Black History of Priesthood 2:04:55 Consecration 2:13:49 Going on a Tangent Don’t miss our other interviews with David: https://gospeltangents.com/people/david-nielsen/

  5. Aug 24

    Non-LDS Temple Q&A (Rick B 4 of 4)

    In this engaging temple Q&A session, host Rick Bennett fields questions from a Community of Christ group following a presentation on restoration temples inside and outside the LDS Church. The discussion spans a wide range of captivating topics in Mormon history, theology, and architecture: https://youtu.be/vn7odpxo7Kc Don’t miss our other conversations on temples: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/lds-temples/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved What you will discover in this presentation: Temple Q&A: Mormon Pentecostalism & Speaking in Tongues The group discusses how early Latter-day Saints in Kirtland rolled on the ground like “holy rollers” and how Mormon Pentecostalism actually predates modern Pentecostalism by about 70 years. They examine how the Book of Mormon’s unique doctrinal connection between the baptism of fire and “speaking in the tongues of angels” laid this early groundwork. LDS Fundamentalism & Temple Practices: The discussion explores why fundamentalist Mormon offshoots (like the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or the Neielson Naylor group) are often seen as having preserved original Nauvoo temple components more closely than the mainstream LDS Church has. Stonehenge as a Jaredite Temple?: In a fascinating segment on international restoration branches, Bennett shares the beliefs of Philip Gill’s group in England, which claims Stonehenge was actually built by Jaredites who traveled through Russia. The group also discusses temple traditions in Mexican and Brazilian restoration offshoots. Nemenha Records & Heavenly Mother: The Q&A highlights a highly obscure set of records from Manti, Utah, known as the “Mantino archives” or “Nemenha record” translated by Philip Landis. The records contain an entire temple endowment ceremony that is almost identical to the LDS ceremony, with one major twist: it refers to a Heavenly Mother. Where Does God Dwell?: Members debate whether physical structures or individual human bodies are the true temples. Drawing from the Book of Mormon’s teaching that the Lord “dwelleth not in unholy temples” but in the hearts of the righteous, they discuss the personal spiritual temple versus the physical buildings that eventually “get torn down”. Future of Kirtland & Salt Lake Temples: Bennett answers questions regarding the LDS Church’s purchase of the Kirtland Temple and the 15-year agreement to keep it as-is. He also expresses deep heartbreak over the seismic upgrades of the Salt Lake Temple, where historic pioneer murals were gutted so the structure could be placed on ball bearings and reinforced with steel rods. Chapters 0:00 Introduction/Welcome 0:41 Community of Christ Temple Clarification (1984-1994 timeline) 2:08 Glossolalia & Speaking in Tongues in Kirtland 5:09 Fundamentalist Mormons & Nauvoo Temple Understanding 6:05 Remnant Church of Jesus Christ Discussion 9:02 International Mormonism & Temple Traditions 17:52 Nemenha Group / Manti Archives 19:58 RLDS Auditorium Temple Question 23:17 Emma Smith & Baptism for Health 23:56 Hagoth & Polynesian Temples 25:04 Kirtland Temple Future & LDS Church Plans 29:26 Structural Issues of Historic Temples (Ogden, Provo) 32:47 Kirtland Temple Restoration Discussion 35:57 Manti Temple & Recent Renovations 37:30 Cardston Temple Don’t miss our other conversations on temples: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/lds-temples/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved What you will discover in this presentation:

  6. Aug 17

    Virtual, Vodou, and Fundy Temples (Rick B 3 of 4)

    We’re taking a deep dive into Virtual, Vodou, and Fundy Temples. It’s a fascinating look at secret and highly controversial world of divergent temples and modern groups of the Restoration. Following the assassination of Joseph Smith, the temple liturgy fractured like a prism, scattering the sacred rites of the Restoration in vastly different directions. https://youtu.be/L6vQWsbxxaE Don’t miss our other conversations on temples: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/lds-temples/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved What you will discover in this presentation: Lost Rites of Mormonism: Discover early temple ordinances that the mainstream LDS Church left behind, including the Law of Adoption (sealing members to prominent church leaders rather than biological parents), baptisms for health (ritual immersion for physical healing), and the controversial Oath of Vengeance. The 1978 Breaking Point: Understand how early 20th-century alterations to the endowment and the 1978 revelation lifting the racial ban on Black members became the “last straw” for fundamentalists, who believed mainstream temples were defiled and set out to build their own sacred spaces. Inside Secret Sanctuaries of Fundy Temples: Go behind the scenes of Warren Jeffs’ isolated YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas, and the dramatic 2008 paramilitary raid sparked by a hoax call. Plus, hear about an exclusive interview conducted inside the temple of Christ’s Church (the Righteous Branch) in Nevada, where they still practice the multi-hour 1877 St. George endowment and perform second anointings. Decentralized and Progressive Temples: Explore Missouri Independents who reject the traditional fundamentalist racial ban to allow Black members to receive full temple ordinances, and the progressive Church of Jesus Christ in Christian Fellowship (CJCCF) & Reform Mormons. Both churches conduct virtual temple worship over Zoom using “home temples” and ordain women to the priesthood. Mormonism Meets Haitian Vodou: Learn how Haitian Latter-day Saints engage in “bricolage,” beautifully blending Mormon temple theology about the thin veil between the living and the dead with indigenous Vodou ancestral veneration. Join us as we explore how nearly two centuries of history have led diverse branches of the Restoration to continuously adapt Joseph Smith’s most sacred ordinances to forge their own unique connections with the Divine! 0:00 Discontinued Temple Rites 4:03 Racial Apostasy 4:37 FLDS Temple 6:39 Christ’s Church Temples 10:49 Baptism for Health 12:49 Missouri Independent Temple 16:53 Women’s Authority, 20:17 Internet Temples 22:36 Haitians Adapting Mormon Temples Don’t miss our other conversations on temples: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/lds-temples/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

  7. Aug 11

    RLDS & Bickertonite Views About Temples

    What happened to the Latter Day Saint movement after it fractured? We discuss the fascination history on RLDS & Bickertonite views about temples. While Brigham Young led his followers West to build physical temples in Utah, multiple restoration branches took a completely different path—formally rejecting Nauvoo theology, secret endowments, and polygamy https://youtu.be/-tjIZUJcOqo Don’t miss our other conversations on temples: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/lds-temples/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved We dive into the fascinating, competitive, and highly diverse world of non-LDS temples. Discover how the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (now Community of Christ) built the massive Auditorium in Independence, Missouri—which historian John Hamer argues was secretly designed as a Kirtland-style temple—before dedicating their famous spiral temple in 1984 under Wallace B. Smith. We also explore: RLDS & Bickertonite Views About Temples The Battle for the Temple Lot: How Granville Hedrick’s followers returned to Jackson County in 1867 and purchased the original plot where 24 temples were once planned. The Great Depression’s Forgotten Temple: Why Otto Fetting’s attempt to construct a Greek-style temple on the Temple Lot in the 1930s left a massive excavation hole—and why former President Harry Truman asked to have it filled in. The Bickertonite Chasm: Why William Bickerton abandoned Brigham Young’s church after polygamy was announced in 1852, choosing to reject physical temples entirely while embracing radical inclusivity—including ordaining deaconesses in the 1860s and calling an African-American apostle. Tongues and the “Smith Corpus”: A fascinating discussion on why groups that rejected Joseph Smith’s later revelations (like the Doctrine and Covenants) successfully preserved early Kirtland Pentecostal gifts like speaking in tongues, while the mainstream LDS Church largely phased them out. Tune in for an incredible journey through the fractured history and competing temple visions of the Restoration! Support the show at patreon.com/gospeltangents to hear the entire uncut conversation! Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

  8. Aug 7

    Embracing Nauvoo: Wild World of non-LDS Temples (Rick B 1 of 4)

    Many people think there aren’t non-LDS temples, but that’s not true. When Joseph Smith was assassinated in 1844, the restoration did not just fracture geographically—it shattered the unified theology of the temple. While the LDS Church went on to build a massive global network of private temples, several other branches of the restoration developed highly unique, surprising, and divergent temple traditions of their own. https://youtu.be/AiIf0-7mOIE Don’t miss our other conversations on temples: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/lds-temples/ In this presentation to the Book of Mormon Perspectives Forum, Gospel Tangents host Rick Bennett explores the fascinating history of “Divergent Temples” across different restoration groups: The Wightites (Texas): Led by Apostle Lyman Wight, this group built the first temple west of the Mississippi in Zodiac, Texas, in 1849—nearly 30 years before the St. George Utah Temple. Shockingly, Wight’s temple endowments were completely open to the public. To secretly practice polygamy, women in the group used their maiden names on both the census and during proxy baptisms to avoid government detection. The Strangites (Wisconsin & Michigan): Led by James Strang, who claimed an angel ordained him as Joseph’s successor on the day of the martyrdom. Strang established the “Order of the Illuminati,” which featured mysterious, phosphorus-anointed initiations that culminated in Strang being crowned as the “king in Zion.” The Cutlerites (Missouri): Founded by Alpheus Cutler, the seventh member of Joseph Smith’s original Quorum of the Anointed. Today, a dwindling number of Cutlerites in Independence, Missouri, still perform temple work on the private second floor of their building. Scholars believe their endowment ceremony is the most unchanged version since the 1840s. However, to distance themselves from polygamy, they reject sealings for the dead while continuing to perform sealings for the living. Whether you are interested in historical mysteries, theological evolutions, or the Masonic roots of early endowment dramas, this episode offers an eye-opening look at how different restoration groups have sought to build holiness to the Lord. 00:00 Introduction 04:13 Nauvoo Temple Origins 12:14 Groups That Kept Nauvoo-Style Temples

See All (200)

4.5
out of 5
130 Ratings

About

A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

Information

  • Creator
    Rick B
  • Years Active
    2017 - 2026
  • Episodes
    200
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Gospel Tangents - All Rights Reserved
  • Show Website
    Gospel Tangents Podcast

You Might Also Like