Professor Game Podcast

Rob Alvarez
  • 5.0 (91)
  • Management
  • Updated Weekly

#1 Gamification Podcast | Insights and Real-World Strategies to Boost Engagement, Loyalty & Retention. Professor Game helps innovators, product leaders, and educators use gamification and game thinking to create engagement that lasts. 🎙️ Hosted by Rob Alvarez — TEDx Speaker, consultant, and host of the #1 Gamification Podcast — each week brings you practical insights, case studies, and frameworks from 400+ global experts and proven real-world examples. Expect interviews with top practitioners in gamification, game design, and behavioral strategy, plus solo episodes where Rob breaks down practical frameworks you can apply in your team, classroom, or product. Join the movement to make engagement, motivation, and loyalty truly meaningful — with stories and strategies that transform the way people learn, work, and play. 💡 Listen. Learn. Apply Play to Your Strategy.

  1. 6d ago

    Monobank Gave Away 5 BMWs by Accident

    Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real products: professorgame.com/WildCD Episode Summary Mykhailo Rogalskyi, co-founder of Fintech IT-Group and the fintech unicorn behind monobank (11 million users), shares how a viral in-app scavenger hunt called Lemon Hunt turned into the bank's biggest gamification win, and its costliest infrastructure failure. He walks through what happens when a 50-hidden-lemon prize draw for one BMW spirals into five cars given away and a 10,000X spike in server requests, plus the AI bot cheating problem now hitting leaderboard-based games. Listeners come away with a concrete framework for building an exit plan into any gamification mechanic before it becomes impossible to remove. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways monobank's Lemon Hunt event, a 50-hidden-lemon scavenger hunt tied to a BMW prize draw, drew 3.5 million users within days and forced the bank to give away five BMWs instead of one. The viral spike caused a 10,000X increase in requests to some services, breaking uptime and pushing monobank to redesign how it allocates server load across the whole app instead of service by service. monobank's embedded banking-app games now face a new failure mode: AI bots that can top leaderboards undetected, which is why Mykhailo Rogalskyi says never attach a valuable prize to a leaderboard that AI can exploit. When monobank retired its badge system for a cat-avatar dress-up feature, it faced months of user backlash, a reminder to plan an exit strategy for any gamification mechanic before removing it. Keep any in-app game mechanic explainable in 15 to 30 seconds, Rogalskyi says, since over-complication is the most common mistake gaming-industry veterans bring into product gamification. Topics Covered 0:00 — Opening hook 1:35 — monobank hits 11 million users 3:04 — Splitting the day between banking and AI 5:32 — The Lemon Hunt event that broke the app 10:01 — A supply chain lesson in distributing risk 11:28 — Why Lemon Hunt couldn't become permanent 12:51 — Embedded games and the AI cheating problem 16:32 — Offline finals level the playing field 17:25 — Lemon Hunt's viral aftermath and brand offers 19:47 — Best practices: simplicity and a sunset plan 22:12 — Badges backlash after the cat avatar swap 24:05 — Duolingo, a book pick, and Walkable Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real products: professorgame.com/WildCD About Mykhailo Rogalskyi Mykhailo Rogalskyi is a Ukrainian entrepreneur and finance professional, best known as one of the co-founders of Fintech IT-Group, the company behind monobank, Ukraine's first neobank. With his involvement, monobank grew into a major digital fintech product with 11 million users, while its developer company evolved into Fintech IT-Group, a holding that attracted investment and received a valuation of over $1 billion, becoming Ukraine's first fintech unicorn. Find the Guest Online Website: https://fintechitgroup.com/en/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogalskiy/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rogalskiy TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rogalskiy Mentioned in This Episode Some links below are affiliate links. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Proposed guest: someone from the Duolingo team Recommended book: Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara Favorite game: Walkable, Mykhailo's own city-walking app Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    Monobank Gave Away 5 BMWs by Accident

  2. 6d ago ·  Bonus

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  3. Aug 31

    Your Customers Don't Remember What You Think They Do

    Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real products: professorgame.com/WildCD Episode Summary Rob breaks down the peak-end rule, the finding from Daniel Kahneman and Donald Redelmeier's 1996 study that people remember an experience by its most intense moment and its ending, not its average. He walks through how cruise lines engineer both moments with nightly raffle dinners, a captain's dinner placed near the end of the trip, and a deliberately overinvested farewell, mapping each to Core Drives 1, 5, and 7 from the Octalysis Framework. Listeners learn why the remembering self, not the experiencing self, drives repeat purchases, how to cap sessions while desire is still climbing, and where the ethical line sits between honest peak design and covering up a bad experience. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways In Kahneman and Redelmeier's 1996 study, deliberately extending a painful colonoscopy so it ended on milder discomfort increased total pain, yet those patients remembered the procedure as less bad and returned for follow-ups at higher rates. The remembering self, not the experiencing self, makes the decision to come back, and it is a terrible statistician: it keeps two data points, the peak and the ending, and discards the average entirely. Cruise lines run the peak-end rule as a business model: nightly raffle dinners built on Core Drive 7 (Unpredictability and Curiosity) and Core Drive 5 (Social Influence and Relatedness) rewrite a mediocre day with a manufactured high. The captain's dinner adds Core Drive 1 (Epic Meaning and Calling) near the end of the trip, and disembarkation is deliberately overinvested because cruises live off travelers who rebook every year, not first-timers. A concrete design move: cap the session while desire is still climbing, so the last memory is "I wanted more" instead of "I was starting to get bored." The ethical line: peak-end design is honest when the peak and the ending tell the truth about the experience, and manipulative when those two moments are used to cover up an experience that was genuinely terrible. Topics Covered 0:00 — The peak-end rule and a painful paradox 1:34 — Inside Kahneman and Redelmeier's 1996 study 2:55 — Experiencing self versus remembering self 4:07 — Rob's reluctant cruise vacation 5:47 — How cruises manufacture nightly peaks 7:38 — Overinvesting in the ending on purpose 9:55 — Cap the session while it's climbing 11:26 — The ethical line of designed memories 12:11 — Diagnostics: did you design your ending? Mentioned in This Episode The peak-end rule Daniel Kahneman and Donald Redelmeier's 1996 study on patients' memories of painful medical procedures The Octalysis Framework and the 8 Core Drives Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    Your Customers Don't Remember What You Think They Do

  4. Aug 24

    Chess Beat Behavioral Design to Flow State

    Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real products: professorgame.com/WildCD Episode Summary Dan Shapiro, author of Decoding Genius: The Unexpected Lessons of After-School Chess Club, shares how a father-son hobby turned into a study of why chess has held people's attention for more than 1,500 years. He walks through Miguel Najdorf's feat of holding 45 blindfolded chess games in his head at once, the built-in rating system that keeps every match in a flow state, and the habit of chess notation that teaches players to review their own decisions. Listeners come away with a clearer picture of why well-tuned difficulty curves matter, why chess maps onto Core Drive 3 (Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback) and Core Drive 7 (Unpredictability & Curiosity), and how curiosity itself works as a design tool. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways Miguel Najdorf played 45 simultaneous games of blindfolded chess in an exhibition, tracking every board from another room purely through memory. Chess's built-in rating system pairs players against evenly matched opponents, a real-world example of designing for flow state as difficulty rises with skill. Chess notation, the practice of recording every move, teaches players a habit of reviewing their own decisions that most people never apply outside the game. Judit Polgar broke Bobby Fischer's record to become the youngest grandmaster in chess history and remains the strongest female player of all time. Chess has held its relevance for roughly 1,500 years, traveling from the Gupta Empire through Persia and the European Renaissance. Dan Shapiro names curiosity as his personal superpower, mapping directly onto Core Drive 3 (Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback) and Core Drive 7 (Unpredictability & Curiosity). Topics Covered 0:00 — Opening hook: 45 blindfolded chess games 1:38 — Meet Dan Shapiro, author of Decoding Genius 2:17 — A day in Dan's life during launch week 3:29 — The tournament failure that hooked him on chess 8:19 — Chess notation and the discipline of reviewing decisions 11:46 — Miguel Najdorf and the memory behind 45 blindfolded games 13:47 — How beginners can start with chess.com puzzles 15:34 — Dynamic difficulty, flow state, and Mario Kart 16:36 — Why chess has survived 1,500 years across cultures 17:45 — Designing for long-term engagement instead of short loops 19:44 — Dan's dream guest: chess prodigy Judit Polgar 22:18 — Curiosity as a superpower, and Core Drives 3 and 7 24:34 — Chess as Dan's favorite game, and other brain games 25:38 — Where to find Decoding Genius, plus closing advice Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real products: professorgame.com/WildCD About Dan Shapiro Dan Shapiro is the author of Decoding Genius: The Unexpected Lessons of After-School Chess Club, a book that explores what chess can teach us about memory, strategy, resilience, and human potential. His journey began as a father trying to support his son, Harry, and grew into a deeper exploration of why chess has been connected to genius for more than 1,500 years. Dan makes the game accessible to parents, new players, and anyone curious about how focused effort, preparation, and strategic thinking can help people of all ages grow. Find the Guest Online Website Book: Decoding Genius LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Mentioned in This Episode Some links below are affiliate links. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Proposed guest: Judit Polgar, record-breaking chess grandmaster and the youngest player ever to reach grandmaster level Recommended book: How to Win at Chess by Levy Rozman, creator of the GothamChess YouTube channel Favorite game: Chess, plus crossword puzzles and other strategy and word games Resource mentioned: chess.com, for beginner puzzles and rated games Dan's book: Decoding Genius: The Unexpected Lessons of After-School Chess Club on Amazon, or read more at decodinggeniusbook.com Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    Chess Beat Behavioral Design to Flow State

  5. Aug 17

    Factory Workers Who Wanted Safety Training

    Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real products: professorgame.com/WildCD Episode Summary Rob breaks down Gartner's prediction that 40% of large warehouse operations will adopt gamification by 2028, showing why the definition attached to that number (points, badges, leaderboards, and rewards) is the setup for the White Hat to Black Hat drift rather than a win for the field. He covers the frontline cases already on record, from Disney's 2011 "electronic whip" laundry leaderboard to Amazon's FC Games and Tae Wan Kim's 2026 Carnegie Mellon paper on gamifying meaningful work, then walks through Aperam's safety training project with The Octalysis Group as the counter-example built on Core Drives 2, 3, and 5. Listeners learn how to spot extractive gamification and how to test a system by asking what would be left if the leaderboard disappeared tomorrow. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways Gartner predicts 40% of large warehouse operations will adopt gamification by 2028, and defines it as points, badges, leaderboards, and rewards, which is the most extrinsic and most drift-prone stack available for work that runs on a multi-year horizon. The White Hat to Black Hat drift is dangerous on a warehouse floor in a way it is not in a consumer app, because a frontline worker cannot uninstall the job. Instead of churn, the cost shows up as overwork, injury, or people pushed out of their living. Amazon's FC Games offered warehouse workers virtual pets while injury rates ran above average, and workers publicly compared the program to the Black Mirror episode "Fifteen Million Merits." Carnegie Mellon business ethics professor Tae Wan Kim's 2026 paper "When Work Becomes a Game" found that gamifying meaningful work can shift a worker's reason for doing it from the purpose of the job to the points, a textbook over-justification effect measured on people at work. Aperam, one of the world's largest stainless steel producers, ran its 2017 safety training project with The Octalysis Group on Core Drive 3 (Empowerment of Creativity and Feedback) and Core Drive 5 (Social Influence and Relatedness), giving workers a voice in safety improvements and turning safety into a group quest instead of a ranking. The Aperam results were strong adoption, workers requesting early downloads of safety material, and a significant reduction in workplace accidents, because the target metric was fewer injuries rather than time spent in the training. Topics Covered 0:00 — The electronic whip and a 40% prediction 2:29 — What Gartner's definition actually contains 3:27 — White Hat to Black Hat drift, and who pays 5:06 — Amazon FC Games and virtual pets 6:08 — Tae Wan Kim on gamifying meaningful work 7:28 — Over-justification and Gartner's own warning 9:15 — Gamification can do this job well 10:06 — Aperam's safety training with Octalysis Group 12:45 — Black Hat as an on-ramp, not the engine 13:18 — Fewer accidents, not more engagement 14:23 — Questions to ask before you buy 17:21 — Where you want to sit in 2028 Mentioned in This Episode Gartner: 40% of large warehouse operations will adopt gamification tools by 2028 Federica Stufano, Gartner analyst behind the warehouse gamification prediction Tae Wan Kim, Carnegie Mellon business ethics professor, 2026 paper "When Work Becomes a Game" Amazon FC Games, the warehouse gamification program with virtual pets and arcade-style mini-games Disney's 2011 hotel laundry leaderboard, known among workers as the "electronic whip" Aperam, one of the world's largest stainless steel producers, and its safety training gamification project The Octalysis Group Core Drives in the Wild, the free Professor Game guide Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    Factory Workers Who Wanted Safety Training

  6. Aug 10

    Why Points and Leaderboards Don't Fix Retention

    Recently funded and aiming for sustainable retention? Intro chat (no sales pitch): professorgame.com/chat Episode Summary Travis Clapp, co-founder and CEO of Coursebox AI, joins Rob to explain how AI is reshaping course creation and delivery for a platform used in 180 countries with over 300,000 courses built on it. He walks through Coursebox's "Break My Brain" feature, an AI mode built for personalized, adversarial learning rather than points and leaderboards, and explains why the platform now generates in 10 minutes what used to take him days to compile by hand. Travis also shares two gamification experiments gone wrong, an overbuilt golf training module and a crossword in an endangered Aboriginal language, and where he draws the line between fun and function. Listeners come away with a clearer read on why surface-level game mechanics rarely move the needle, and what deep personalization through AI looks like in practice. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways Coursebox AI now generates the five-document compliance package Travis used to build by hand for RTOs in about 10 minutes, work that once took him days per client. Coursebox's "Break My Brain" feature lets a learner, or Travis himself testing it on his own sales calls, get challenged and questioned by AI instead of clicking through a linear course, engaging Core Drive 3 (Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback) and Core Drive 4 (Ownership & Possession). Travis's own team told him not to talk about leaderboards, points, certificates, or badges going into this episode, because platform-level leaderboards rarely produce deep engagement on their own, just a carrot on a stick. A German trucking client turned Coursebox training into a fully hands-free, podcast-style experience so drivers could complete quizzes and assignments by voice while on the road. Coursebox is used across 180 countries, has generated over 300,000 courses, and one flagship edX MOOC built on the platform reached more than 20,000 learners. An early gamified golf training module Travis built in 2011 nailed the learner experience but got flagged internally as the most expensive, overpriced piece of work the company had shipped, a reminder that engagement design still has to answer to budget. Topics Covered 0:00 — Opening hook: "don't talk about leaderboards" 1:18 — Travis Clapp's path to Coursebox AI 2:42 — New fatherhood and running a global startup from Australia 6:03 — Favorite fail: an over-engineered golf training module 9:03 — A crossword in an endangered language, gamification taken too far 10:57 — Why leaderboards and points rarely drive real engagement 12:57 — "Break My Brain": AI's personalized deep-learning mode 16:24 — Killing the step-by-step method for open, prompt-based design 18:02 — Tesla's Grok, Porsche, and voice-driven learning everywhere 20:55 — German truck drivers turning training into a podcast 21:41 — AI risk, specialization, and what never depreciates 27:20 — Book picks, favorite game, and where to find Coursebox AI Recently funded and aiming for sustainable retention? Intro chat (no sales pitch): professorgame.com/chat About Travis Clapp Travis Clapp is the co-founder and CEO of Coursebox AI, an AI course creation and training delivery platform used across 180 countries with over 300,000 courses created on the platform. He spent 15 years as an instructional designer before building Coursebox, working with companies like Johnson & Johnson, Electrolux, Michael Hill, and SA Health. At Open Colleges, he built the five-document compliance packages by hand that every RTO needs; Coursebox now generates the same packages in 10 minutes. One of his courses reached over 20,000 learners as a flagship edX MOOC. He knows what good learning takes because he spent years doing it the slow way. Before Coursebox, he founded and ran a social-based LMS for seven years, which became the foundation for what Coursebox AI is today. Four years ago he launched Coursebox AI, not to automate course creation, but to get to the part that matters: delivery. The AI tutor, the grading, the 24/7 coaching, the outcomes. Course creation, in his words, is about 1% of what the platform does. Travis still checks customer support messages at 4am. Find Travis Clapp Online Website: coursebox.ai LinkedIn (Travis): linkedin.com/in/travisclapp LinkedIn (Coursebox AI): linkedin.com/company/courseboxai Instagram: instagram.com/coursebox.ai TikTok: tiktok.com/@coursebox.ai Facebook: facebook.com/courseboxai X/Twitter: x.com/Coursebox_ai YouTube: youtube.com/@CourseboxAI Mentioned in This Episode Some links below are affiliate links. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. TOG / P&G gamification case study The Octalysis Framework Book: I, Robot by Isaac Asimov Book: The Millionaire Mind by Thomas J. Stanley Book: The Expectant Father by Armin A. Brott & Jennifer Ash Rudick Favorite game: SimCity 2000 (1993) Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    Why Points and Leaderboards Don't Fix Retention

  7. Aug 3

    Your Engagement Program Is a Loan You're Still Paying

    Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real engagement programs: professorgame.com/WildCD Episode Summary Rob breaks down behavioral debt: the borrowed motivation hiding inside every legacy points, discount, or bonus program, showing why cutting an engagement program off cold is the fastest way to blow it up. He walks through JCPenney's collapse under Ron Johnson, a Fortune 500 rewards program employees now budget around like income, and how LATAM Airlines and Caixa Econômica Federal restructured their own behavioral debt using Octalysis Core Drives instead of switching it off. Listeners learn how to read their program's real balance sheet and start servicing behavioral debt without triggering a JCPenney-style default. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways JCPenney's Ron Johnson scrapped every discount and coupon overnight, replacing them with everyday low pricing; sales fell 25%, roughly $4.3 billion, and he was gone within two years. Ron Johnson later admitted only 1% of JCPenney's sales happened without a discount, meaning 99% of purchases depended on coupons the company had just eliminated. LATAM Airlines kept its miles intact but rebuilt the experience around Core Drive 7 (Unpredictability & Curiosity) and Core Drive 3 (Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback), driving a 153% increase in credit card acquisitions. Caixa Econômica Federal's incentive program had drifted to roughly 10% participation before a rebuild around collective purpose pushed it to 90%, adding $1.06 billion in revenue. Points tied to reaching performance targets ran on Core Drive 4 (Ownership & Possession) and Core Drive 8 (Loss & Avoidance), turning a reward employees didn't need into part of their household income. Topics Covered 0:00 — Behavioral debt hiding under green metrics 0:25 — A Fortune 500 rewards program families budget around 1:39 — Why most engagement advice assumes a blank slate 2:51 — Why behavioral debt hides behind green dashboards 3:29 — Borrowed motivation compounding like real interest 4:17 — JCPenney's Ron Johnson cuts every discount overnight 6:04 — Core Drives 4 and 8 inside the Fortune 500 case 8:07 — Why behavioral debt has no repayment plan 8:59 — Why you can't just switch off behavioral debt 9:20 — LATAM Airlines: servicing debt while building the replacement 11:23 — Caixa's jump from 10% to 90% participation 12:37 — Closing: most loyalty programs are just debt service Get the free Core Drives in the Wild guide, behavioral design applied to real engagement programs: professorgame.com/WildCD Mentioned in This Episode LATAM Airlines Gamification Case Study (The Octalysis Group) Caixa Econômica Federal Banking Gamification Case Study (The Octalysis Group) The Octalysis Framework JCPenney's 2011-2013 "everyday low prices" strategy under CEO Ron Johnson Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    Your Engagement Program Is a Loan You're Still Paying

  8. Jul 27

    The Same Bonus Can Motivate Your Team, or Wreck It

    Real cases pulled apart through the Octalysis Core Drives, sent to your inbox over a few days. Get the free guide: professorgame.com/WildCD Episode Summary Rob breaks down why the same reward can pull a team forward or quietly wreck it, using three cases where the design decided the outcome. He walks through a school in Caracas where escalating fines for late pickups made lateness worse, the sales bonus patterns that produce burnout and sandbagging, and The Octalysis Group's project with Procter & Gamble's distributor Navo Orbico, where a gamified ship upgrade tightened the feedback loop instead of paying for the sale. Along the way he separates two mechanisms that often get treated as one: a fine turning a moral obligation into a price, and the over-justification effect crowding out intrinsic motivation on the reward side. Listeners learn how to match the reward to the job it actually has to do, and when to hand off to something more durable. About the Host Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Key Takeaways A school in Caracas replaced the moral weight of collecting your child on time with an escalating fine, and lateness went up instead of down. Core Drive 5 (Social Influence and Relatedness) stopped doing its job the moment the delay carried a price. Gneezy and Rustichini's study "A Fine is a Price" documents the same reversal in day-care centers: a monetary fine for late pickups increased late pickups, and removing the fine did not bring them back down. A standing sales commission with nothing behind it pays for the behavior forever. Reps chase the next check to make ends meet, and with no other motivation in the system, the commission burns them out rather than building anything durable. Capped bonuses fail in two directions. Targets set too high get read as unreachable, so reps stop trying, and reachable targets get sandbagged, with closed-ready deals held into the next cycle so the company waits on revenue it wanted today. In The Octalysis Group's project with Procter & Gamble's distributor Navo Orbico, ship upgrades inside Masters of the Endless Seas cut the roughly week-long CRM lag on seeing whether a sale landed, tightening the Core Drive 2 (Development and Accomplishment) loop instead of paying for the sale. Rob was not on the project team and saw it presented at Brighton. Nearly every reward failure is one of two mistakes: treating the get-them-through-the-door reward as the whole engine, or bolting an extrinsic reward onto behavior that already had an intrinsic reason, which is where the over-justification effect crowds that reason out. Topics Covered 0:00 — The reward is a tool, not a motivator 1:56 — The Caracas school that fined late parents 2:45 — How a fine replaced a moral obligation 4:07 — A Fine is a Price, Gneezy and Rustichini 4:44 — When rewards do an honest job 6:07 — Standing commissions and sales rep burnout 7:07 — Bonus targets set too high to chase 8:06 — Hitting the number, then sandbagging deals 8:52 — The over-justification effect in action 9:27 — P&G's Masters of the Endless Seas 11:15 — Why the ship worked when the bonus failed 12:20 — Choosing the reward that fits the job Mentioned in This Episode Core Drives in the Wild, the free guide with real cases analyzed through the Octalysis Core Drives Episode 453: Why Users Agree But Never Start, where Rob covers the Procter & Gamble project in full "A Fine is a Price" by Uri Gneezy and Aldo Rustichini, Journal of Legal Studies, 2000 The Octalysis Group, and its project with Procter & Gamble's distributor Navo Orbico Masters of the Endless Seas, the gamified world built for the Procter & Gamble sales rep network The over-justification effect, and Core Drives 1, 2, 3, and 5 of the Octalysis Framework Free Resources and Get in Touch Core Drives in the Wild: Professor Game Free Guide Get Daily Value on Your Email Let's chat about your gamification project YouTube LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Start Your Community on Skool for Free Ask a question

    The Same Bonus Can Motivate Your Team, or Wreck It
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About

#1 Gamification Podcast | Insights and Real-World Strategies to Boost Engagement, Loyalty & Retention. Professor Game helps innovators, product leaders, and educators use gamification and game thinking to create engagement that lasts. 🎙️ Hosted by Rob Alvarez — TEDx Speaker, consultant, and host of the #1 Gamification Podcast — each week brings you practical insights, case studies, and frameworks from 400+ global experts and proven real-world examples. Expect interviews with top practitioners in gamification, game design, and behavioral strategy, plus solo episodes where Rob breaks down practical frameworks you can apply in your team, classroom, or product. Join the movement to make engagement, motivation, and loyalty truly meaningful — with stories and strategies that transform the way people learn, work, and play. 💡 Listen. Learn. Apply Play to Your Strategy.

Information

  • Creator
    Rob Alvarez
  • Years Active
    2017 - 2026
  • Episodes
    463
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    professorgame.com © 2025
  • Show Website
    Professor Game Podcast

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