Recoup Podcast

Patrick Sweetman
  • 4.0 (6)
  • Technology
  • Biweekly

Recoup Podcast is a show about AI transformation for music rightsholders. We sit down with the people who create, own, and invest in music, from label founders and publishers to fund managers and catalog owners, on how they run their businesses and where AI now does real work inside them. Specific answers from operators, the numbers behind them, and what they would build next. Made by Recoup, the firm that builds AI systems music companies own and trains their teams to use them. recoupable.dev

  1. 1d ago

    The lower multiple you pay, the more room to be wrong w/ Tom Sarig

    "The lower multiple you pay, the more room you have to be wrong," says Tom Sarig, founder of AntiFragile Equity Partners, which buys catalogs from artists earning $100,000 to $1 million a year. He aims for 5x to 10x, runs a valuation in-house with his CFO, and must get a third-party valuation before he can draw on his credit line. Tom managed Lou Reed, and he is precise about where that money came from: Walk on the Wild Side and Perfect Day earned about $1.5 million a year, "100% sync." From his label years he tells how Cannons' "Fire For You" went into Netflix's Never Have I Ever for "like $3,000 a side" and, in his telling, went from about half a million streams to 50 or 60 million. Then the plan for Hot Vibes, the European dance catalog his firm bought: about 180 songs earning close to $400,000 a year, 19 ideas to grow it (SoundExchange registration, Musicbed micro sync, a sync rep, paid social), a hoped-for 10 to 15% a year, and AI remixes that could take it to 500 songs by the end of next year, as long as the melody and lyrics are "not composed by a computer." We also cover why he buys the whole album where, as he sees it, Duetti buys the one biggest track, how he screens for bot streams (four or five years of history, nothing declining more than about 5%), and whether Duetti's index of 3.8x to 10.2x matches what he pays: "That's about right." Tom Sarig: antifragilemusic.com/equitypartners · LinkedIn Chapters0:00 Cold open + intro0:24 Your purchase price is everything5:07 Two songs, a million and a half a year11:19 Finance people vs music people14:47 Total serendipity19:42 180 songs, 19 ideas22:37 The AI stack25:31 Bots, fraud and real growth26:52 What multiples look like now27:17 Quickfire28:21 Outro Recoup designs and builds the systems behind conversations like this one: catalog data, royalty operations, and AI agents for labels, publishers, funds and management companies. recoupable.dev

    The lower multiple you pay, the more room to be wrong w/ Tom Sarig

  2. Oct 25

    Nobody actually wants a marketing plan w/ Ali Lieberman

    "Nobody actually wants a marketing plan," says Ali Lieberman, VP of Product at Symphonic Distribution. "They want the release to do well." That idea shaped the Release Campaign Builder, which Symphonic launched in February: a marketing plan built from a release's own data. Ali walks through one on screen, a demo release with a $500 budget and one goal, a playlist placement. One of Symphonic's senior A&R leaders called the output "annoyingly good." Before Symphonic, Ali ran the US ISRC agency at the RIAA and improved business processes at SoundExchange. Her rule for AI comes from that work: it is "mostly an amplifier." Clean data and processes get faster; messy ones get you "amplifying mess." She explains which work Symphonic has handed to AI, how the team defines and tests those workflows, and what stays with people. We also cover distributors as gatekeepers after UMG sued DistroKid and IFPI launched its Streaming Integrity Initiative, why the problem is "music pretending to be something that it isn't," why the default for AI training "should be no," and whether a model can price an advance: "I do not trust AI 100% to give the final number." Ali Lieberman: symphonic.com · LinkedIn Chapters0:00 Cold open + intro0:16 From ISRCs to AI3:40 Your super assistant8:36 A release plan written by AI13:35 Distributors as gatekeepers17:42 Opt in, not scraped22:00 Can a model price an advance?26:06 Quickfire Recoup designs and builds the systems behind conversations like this one: catalog data, royalty operations, and AI agents for labels, publishers, funds and management companies. recoupable.dev

    Nobody actually wants a marketing plan w/ Ali Lieberman

  3. Oct 18

    Buy at 8x, sell to fans at 20x w/ Sean Peace

    "Our target multiple is a 20X," says Sean Peace, who founded SongVest in 2007. A catalog owner buys at 8x, then sells 10% or 15% of a song to fans at 20x. Fans pay it because a SongShare is "the coolest piece of memorabilia you'll ever buy": a piece of a song they love that actually pays a royalty. We test that on one real offering. In SongVest's 2026 offering circular, a share of "Rain On Me" earned $12,637 over the last twelve months. The seller gets $252,750, about 20 times that, and fans pay up to $318,465, about 25 times. Sean explains who those buyers are, how payouts reach them, and why the first song he put on the marketplace, "Hit The Quan", was one he owned himself. We also cover fewer, bigger buyers after Sony and Recognition and BMG and Concord, what drives a multiple a year later, why a ton of money doesn't make you good at valuing catalogs, why song shares don't trade like stocks yet, and what AI licensing will actually pay song owners. Sean Peace: songvest.com · LinkedIn Chapters0:00 Cold open + intro0:26 Why SongVest is still here5:32 Fewer, bigger buyers9:03 The multiple, a year later13:53 Who pays 25x for Rain On Me16:23 Payouts and getting out21:39 Will it ever trade like equities23:41 AI money and fake streams28:38 Quickfire Recoup designs and builds the systems behind conversations like this one: catalog data, royalty operations, and AI agents for labels, publishers, funds and management companies. recoupable.dev

    Buy at 8x, sell to fans at 20x w/ Sean Peace

  4. Oct 11

    Music licensing needs to be frictionless, not permissionless w/ Jesse Kirshbaum

    Jesse Kirshbaum signed the Clipse at 23. More than twenty years later, "Grindin'" is a Lavazza coffee. "Songs don't get old, but context is consistently changing," he says. That is his Living Catalog: brand partnerships that give older songs new meaning, and new income, long after the release date. Jesse runs Nue Agency and writes the Beats + Bytes newsletter. He explains how a brand picks a song (data shows where the heat is, taste shows where it is going), why music licensing needs to be frictionless rather than permissionless, and what a label sitting on 5,000 songs should pitch first: not a playlist, a concept. We cover Dolly Parton's Cup of Ambition coffee, DJ Khaled and Nesquik's "Another Bun", the 2025 NFL Draft walkout songs, Kid A Mnesia, and which archive deserves that treatment next. Subscribe to Beats + Bytes: beatsxbytes.com/subscribe Jesse Kirshbaum: nueagency.com · LinkedIn Chapters0:00 Cold open + intro0:26 Grindin', twenty years later1:49 From agent to agentic6:57 What brands want from a catalog9:37 Taste, data and the needle13:10 Can a brand deal make an old song worth more?16:45 Clearing music at scale20:57 Don't send a playlist, send a concept22:53 Quickfire Recoup designs and builds the systems behind conversations like this one: catalog data, royalty operations, and AI agents for labels, publishers, funds and management companies. recoupable.dev

    Music licensing needs to be frictionless, not permissionless w/ Jesse Kirshbaum

  5. Oct 4

    AI music licenses will switch from market share to usage w/ Vickie Nauman

    Vickie Nauman expects the first AI music licenses, signed on market share, to start paying on actual usage when they come up for renewal in one to two years. The founder and CEO of CrossBorderWorks has spent 26 years licensing new music technology, and she lays out what rights holders need before that switch: an attribution system for AI output, artist opt-in, and a transparency clause in every AI license. We cover Spotify's AI artist badges, whether a Drake hit and a Kansas City singer-songwriter carry the same value in a training set, Merlin's role for independent catalogs, GEMA's court win against Suno, why AI-generated music should flow through the same DDEX pipes as everything else, and why 3.5 billion gamers make games a catalog income line. Vickie also explains why the industry lost four years trying to stop digital from 1999 to 2004, and why rights holders are at the table this time. Vickie Nauman: crossborderworks.com · LinkedIn Chapters0:00 Cold open + intro0:19 Human, machine, or a million shades of gray6:49 Twenty-five years of new tech meeting old rights11:53 The majors signed first. What about everyone else?15:55 When the AI deals come due20:45 Proving a song is human25:09 Games as catalog income29:28 Quickfire Recoup designs and builds the systems behind conversations like this one: catalog data, royalty operations, and AI agents for labels, publishers, funds and management companies. recoupable.dev

    AI music licenses will switch from market share to usage w/ Vickie Nauman

  6. 12/08/2024

    The $100K playbook of an independent artist w/ Xcelencia

    Recorded in Miami during Art Basel 2024. Xcelencia runs his career the way a good company runs a product line: the album treated as software, distribution engineered through quests rather than playlist luck, and a direct commercial relationship with the collectors who fund the work. We go through the numbers behind his $100K year, the tooling he built versus bought, token-bound accounts as fan infrastructure, and what he would keep if he started again. Required listening for anyone who owns a catalog and wants to see the leading edge of independent operation in practice. Connect with Xcelencia: El Niño Estrella, X, Spotify Recoup designs and builds the systems behind conversations like this one: catalog data, royalty operations, and AI agents for labels, publishers, funds and management companies. recoupable.dev

    The $100K playbook of an independent artist w/ Xcelencia

  7. 11/24/2024

    Base Digger Early Access: My First Look at the New Onchain Game That Pays in ETH

    Discover Base Digger, the latest onchain game built on Base! 🎮 My friend Cadu gave me early access to this exciting new game, which he and his team have been building for 10 months. In this video, I’ll playtest the game, explore its features, and share my first impressions. From signing in with email, swapping ETH for tokens, and digging lands to climbing the leaderboard, I cover everything you need to know about this unique onchain gaming experience. Watch to find out how I rank on the leaderboard and why I’m so excited about the Base ecosystem! 🚀 Key Highlights with Timestamps: - [00:00:00] Introduction to Base Digger and Early Access - [00:00:15] Signing in with Early Access - [00:00:47] Exploring the Shop, Stamina, and Tools - [00:01:36] Understanding the Leaderboard System - [00:02:20] How to Earn Points and Dig Lands - [00:03:10] First Gameplay: Digging Lands and Earning XP - [00:03:39] Running Out of Stamina: What Happens Next? - [00:05:10] Swapping ETH for Bot Tokens - [00:06:20] Purchasing Stamina and Continuing Gameplay - [00:07:02] Troubleshooting Swaps and Completing Transactions - [00:08:20] Returning to Gameplay: Climbing the Leaderboard - [00:08:57] Final Thoughts and Excitement for Base Digger 🔗 Play Base Digger: https://www.basedigger.xyz/ 🔗 Learn more about Base Digger and the Base ecosystem: https://x.com/basedigger 👍 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more blockchain gaming content! #BaseDigger #BlockchainGaming #PlayToEarn #OnChainGaming #EthereumGaming #BaseEcosystem #CryptoGames #NFTGaming #ETHRewards #GameTest #BaseNetwork #GamingOnBlockchain #CryptoCommunity #LeaderboardChallenge #PlayTest #BlockchainTechnology #Web3Gaming #GameDevelopment #CryptoTokens #StaminaSystem #BaseMainnet #BlockchainFun #CaduGames #CryptoLeaderboard #GamingInnovation #Base #OnChain #OnChainGaming

  8. 11/22/2024

    How to Build a ManageFamAuthority Indexer for Hypersub Subscriptions

    In this tutorial, we walk you through building an indexer for the ManageFamAuthority to automate Party management based on Hypersub subscription status on Base. From creating a "fam" to linking subscriptions to parties and verifying subscription expirations, you'll learn how to streamline multiplayer Ethereum experiences with this end-to-end guide. Key Timestamps: - 00:00 - Introduction Overview of our goal: automating party cards based on Hypersub subscriptions. - 00:20 - Starting the Indexer Using `pnpm dev` to run the indexer locally. - 00:35 - Indexer Tasks Overview - Monitoring subscription contracts for transfer events. - Tracking creator-linked subscriptions to parties. - Checking and removing expired subscriptions every 30 seconds. - 01:00 - Creating a Fam Using CC0 art to set up a new fam. - 01:55 - Deploying Hypersub Steps to deploy a Hypersub on the factory and configure party access. - 03:40 - Testing Subscription Expirations Verifying party card removal upon subscription expiry. - 04:50 - Debugging Subscription Expirations Addressing bugs with the cron job for removing expired party cards. - 07:00 - Creating Proposals and Actions Granting subscription time, adding members, and creating proposals. - 09:30 - Proposal Execution Testing and verifying a Zora token creation through proposals. - 12:20 - Bug Fixes Identifying and resolving issues in the indexer logic to handle expired subscriptions. - 25:00 - Closing Remarks Encouragement to like, share, and build on this open-source effort. This tutorial is tailored for blockchain developers looking to connect subscription mechanics with on-chain experiences seamlessly. If you found this helpful, like, comment, and share to inspire more builders! 🚀 #Ethereum #BlockchainDevelopment #Base #Hypersub #ManageFamAuthority #Tutorial

See All (428)

Trailer

Ratings & Reviews

4
out of 5
6 Ratings

About

Recoup Podcast is a show about AI transformation for music rightsholders. We sit down with the people who create, own, and invest in music, from label founders and publishers to fund managers and catalog owners, on how they run their businesses and where AI now does real work inside them. Specific answers from operators, the numbers behind them, and what they would build next. Made by Recoup, the firm that builds AI systems music companies own and trains their teams to use them. recoupable.dev

Information

  • Creator
    Patrick Sweetman
  • Years Active
    2017 - 2026
  • Episodes
    428
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Patrick Sweetman
  • Show Website
    Recoup Podcast