The Forest School Podcast

Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden
  • 4.7 (12)
  • EDUCATION
  • UPDATED BIWEEKLY

Wem Southerden & Lewis Ames have run Forest School and training centre Children of the Forest since 2017. The Forest School Podcast was born when they wondered if their daily wafflechats and reflections about pedagogy, play and nature connection might be of interest to others. The podcast aims to inform and support educators, parents, outdoor and play practitioners and anyone interested in nature and the outdoors. Through book reviews – interviews with experts, practitioners and authors – sharing our experience as educators and business owners – deep dives on fascinating topics –

  1. FEB 16

    Ep 240 - The Score by Thi Nguyen

    Keywords weather, play, philosophy, achievement, agency, creativity, metrics, education, value capture, qualitative assessment Summary In this conversation, Lewis and Wem explore various themes surrounding play, philosophy, and the impact of metrics on society. They discuss the importance of play in fostering creativity and social connections, the differences between striving and achievement players, and the role of constraints in enhancing creativity. The conversation also delves into the concept of value capture, the influence of technology on perception, and the need for qualitative assessments in education. They conclude by reflecting on the importance of process over product and the future of education in relation to play. Takeaways Mud everywhere! The weather can be deceiving. Books can deeply engage us. Play has philosophical implications. Striving players focus on the process. Constraints can enhance creativity. Value capture influences our perceptions. Metrics can simplify complex ideas. Education often prioritizes quantifiable data. The process of play is more important than the outcome. Titles Exploring the Mud: Weather and Play The Philosophy of Play and Learning sound bites "There's mud everywhere!" "This book is amazing!" "The process is beautiful!" Chapters 00:00 The Muddy Reality of Weather 08:16 Exploring the Depths of Play and Philosophy 11:08 Understanding Player Mindsets: Achievement vs. Striving 14:22 Facilitating Play: Agency and Autonomy in Games 17:24 The Role of Games in Social Dynamics 20:15 Process Beauty in Games: The Art of Overcoming Obstacles 23:06 The Purpose vs. Goal in Play: Social Connection Over Competition 37:08 The Sensual Act of Information Management 40:21 Nature Connection and Purpose 43:35 Metrics, Value Capture, and Scoring Systems 50:16 The Influence of Technology on Perception 56:47 The Four Horsemen of Value Capture 01:05:55 The Balance of Quantitative and Qualitative Metrics 01:10:41 Exploring Pedagogies and Their Metrics

    1h 18m

  2. JAN 31

    Ep 239 - Community Woods with Susan Barker from Avon Needs Trees

    Keywords tree planting, community engagement, climate action, Avon Needs Trees, sustainable practices, tree care, volunteerism, Echo Wood, environmental awareness, biodiversity Summary In this engaging conversation, Wem speaks with Susan Barker from Avon Needs Trees about the importance of community tree planting and care. Susan shares her journey from academia to horticulture, highlighting the mission of Avon Needs Trees in combating climate change through woodland creation. They discuss the significance of community involvement, sustainable practices in tree care, and the emotional aspects of confronting climate change. The conversation also touches on the innovative Echo Wood project, which aims to create a living artwork through tree planting, and the importance of fostering connections with nature. Takeaways Susan Barker transitioned from academia to horticulture due to stress and a desire to work with nature. Avon Needs Trees focuses on creating permanent woodlands to combat climate change and biodiversity loss. Community engagement is crucial for the success of tree planting initiatives. Sustainable tree care practices are essential for the long-term health of planted trees. Volunteers play a significant role in tree planting and care, fostering a sense of ownership. Echo Wood is a living artwork project that involves planting 365 trees in a circular design. Emotional well-being is supported through active participation in environmental initiatives. The organization emphasizes the importance of local actions in response to global climate issues. Conversations about climate change should balance despair with hope and actionable steps. The survival rate of trees planted by Avon Needs Trees is impressively high, averaging around 93%. Sound bites "The tree care is so meditative." "We want to have those conversations." "It's the little things that citizens do that matter." Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Avon Needs Trees and Susan Barker 07:39 Susan's Journey from Academia to Horticulture 12:46 The Birth of Avon Needs Trees 18:49 Land Acquisition and Community Engagement 25:09 Tree Planting and Care Practices 29:43 The Challenges of Tree Planting 30:50 Creating a Community Woodland 32:27 Survival Rates and Long-Term Care 34:50 Engaging the Community 41:44 Introducing Echo Wood 49:22 Confronting Climate Change Emotionally 01:00:21 Pod Cat.mp4

    1h 1m

  3. JAN 23

    Ep 238: 238 - Play Prophecies

    In this episode, Wem and Lewis explore the philosophical and societal implications of play, discussing how it shapes childhood development and adult behavior. They delve into the idea that play is not merely a preparation for adulthood but a vital part of life itself, influencing social interactions and personal growth. The conversation also touches on the impact of adult perceptions on children's play and the broader cultural narratives surrounding play. Keywords play, childhood development, adult behavior, social interactions, personal growth, societal perceptions, cultural narratives, essential play, children, adults Takeaways Play is a vital part of life, not just preparation for adulthood. Adult perceptions can influence children's play experiences. Play shapes social interactions and personal growth. Cultural narratives impact how play is valued. Philosophical discussions on the essence of play are explored. Play is essential for both children and adults. The role of play in childhood development is multifaceted. Play can reflect societal issues and biases. Understanding play requires a holistic view of its impact. Play is a fundamental aspect of human experience.

    1h 1m

  4. JAN 11

    Episode 237 — Tree Books! What to read, why it matters, and how it shapes practice

    Summary From Westonbirt inspirations to field guides and plant-hunter epics, Lewis and Gemma pull 13 tree books and ask how reading changes woodland practice. Hear about ships with greenhouses, coppice cycles, charcoal burning, fungal networks, minimalist nursery design, mapping with old OS layers and LiDAR, plus a practitioner’s starter stack for ID and ethnobotany. Sponsors TENTSILE Save 10% on tree tents and hammocks with code ForestChildren10 at checkout. Ideal for leaders who want flexible base-camp shelter without ground impact. Chris Holland Explore Chris’s 54-page Plant of the Week guide with songs, stories and QR videos. Use our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast Key takeaways Books are tools. Ideas on the page translate into better planning, richer invitations to play and clearer woodland decisions. History explains today’s woods. War, trade and enclosure shaped plantations and access. When the landscape is the resource you can need fewer add-ons. Mycorrhizal science challenges the clean slate approach to plantations. Diversity can feed young trees. A balanced shelf helps practitioners. Mix narrative inspiration, technical ID, land-use history and local mapping. Chapters 00:00 Audio or video and how to follow along 02:10 Westonbirt, tree hunters and why one book leads to three more 06:40 Plant collectors, ships with greenhouses and species introductions 11:20 Remarkable trees and the Douglas fir story 15:20 Finding the Mother Tree and what fungal networks show us 20:10 Managing woods for play, coppice cycles and charcoal 25:40 Enclosure, disafforestation and the Western Rising rabbit hole 30:40 Rackham, old OS maps and first steps with LiDAR 35:30 Practitioner stack for sessions and ethnobotany 40:50 Photos or illustrations for ID, trends in tree writing, the squirrel book wish Books and resources mentioned Thomas Pakenham — The Tree Hunters; Meetings with Remarkable Trees John Evelyn — Sylva, or a Discourse of Forest Trees Suzanne Simard — Finding the Mother Tree Peter Wohlleben — The Hidden Life of Trees Richard Powers — The Overstory Oliver Rackham — Trees and Woodland in the British Landscape; The History of the Countryside Tristan Gooley — How to Read a Tree Ray Mears — British Woodland: How to Explore the Secret World of Our Forests Roger Phillips — UK wild plants and fungi photographic guides Chris Holland — Plant of the Week collection Handy tools referenced Old OS map viewer for historical layers LiDAR overlays for spotting ridge and furrow, pits and platforms Listen now 🎧 Catch the full episode: Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyI YouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUs Apple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMF RSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9 Stay in touch Questions, feedback or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com Say hello on Instagram and Facebook. Tell us your favourite tree book or share a shelf photo and tag the show so we can reshare. Support More episodes and resources: theforestschoolpodcast.com Back the show from £2 a month: patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast Hashtags #ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #ReflectivePractice #TreeBooks

    56 min

  5. JAN 4

    Ep 236 - "The Land" Documentary

    In this punchy, practice-rich episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem unpack The Land — a 2016 documentary about an adventure playground in Wrexham — as screened via the Boston Children’s Museum panel. They dig into filming that sits inside the play, what “looks like a dump” can signal to children, and how adventure playground philosophy intersects with Forest School when you factor in nature’s needs, community, and inclusion. From risk versus hazard to loose parts in public parks, it is a tour through culture, pedagogy, and what real autonomy feels like. 🌟 Sponsors and supporter shout-outs We are supported by TENTSILE. Forest School leaders and listeners get 10% off with code ForestChildren10 at checkout. We are also supported by Chris Holland. Grab his 54-page plant guide and more with our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast Patrons keep this going from just £2 per month. Thank you for keeping the lights on and the microphones warm. ⏱ Chapter Timings 00:00 Film on The Land and why it matters 01:22 Naturalistic camera work and playworker voice 03:20 UK playwork culture compared with the US context 05:44 Feelings when play looks messy, what the environment signals 08:19 Forest School versus adventure playgrounds, whose needs are held 10:40 Risk and hazard, modelling assessment in the open 12:59 Loose parts in public parks, barriers and “reset-able” spaces 15:23 Community care, freedom with a nominated adult, less panopticon 17:03 When children ignore the plan, ego checks for facilitators 18:35 What we will read next, The Anxious Generation 🌲 Keywords adventure playgrounds, The Land documentary, playwork, Forest School practice, risk versus hazard, loose parts, inclusion, community play culture, environmental signalling, Boston Children’s Museum panel 🔖 Hashtags #ForestSchool #Playwork #OutdoorEducation #LooseParts #ReflectivePractice 🎧 Catch the full episode: Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyI YouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUs Apple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMF RSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9 🌐 More Episodes and Support Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

    36 min

  6. 12/12/2025

    Ep 235 - PARS Playworking with Dr Shelley Newstead

    In this lively, idea-packed episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem chat with Dr Shelley Newstead about the roots and reality of playwork. Shelley traces adventure playgrounds from Sorensen in Denmark to Lady Allen in post-war Britain, then explains her PARS playwork model that helps adults articulate what they are doing and why. Expect thoughtful links to Forest School practice, clear language for talking to schools and parents, and practical insight on when to step in and when to stand back. They also tackle funding priorities, teens and play, and how to keep practice reflexive rather than nostalgic. Sponsors TENTSILE — Tree tents for educators and explorers. Listeners get 10% off with code ForestChildren10. Chris Holland — Nature connection resources including his 54-page plant guide. Use our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast ⏱ Chapter Timings 00:00 – Cold open and the promise to keep it normal 01:06 – Meet Dr Shelley Newstead and what playwork is really about 03:18 – From practitioner to PhD and why articulation matters 07:15 – A playwork perspective explained 11:44 – Sorensen, Lady Allen, and the rise of adventure playgrounds 18:26 – Grassroots growth and reinventing the wheel 24:19 – The PARS model for articulating, developing, and evaluating practice 32:37 – PARS hats for parents and practitioners 44:17 – Forest School and playwork, overlap and differences 51:41 – Funding fixed parks versus community play and provision for teens 🌲 Keywords Playwork history, adventure playgrounds, Sorensen, Lady Allen, PARS model, reflexive practice, articulation of practice, Forest School and playwork, teen play, community provision 🔖 Hashtags #ForestSchool #Playwork #OutdoorEducation #ReflectivePractice #ChildLedLearning 🎧 Catch the full episode: Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyI YouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUs Apple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMF RSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9 🌐 More Episodes & Support Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

    1h 3m

  7. 12/05/2025

    Ep 234 - Ludobotany 1: Tree Climbing

    In this lively Ludo Botany special, we explore tree climbing as play, practice, and design. Lewis brings fresh research on branch collars, spacing, and load strength while Gemma brings lived experience on how different trees invite different kinds of movement. From laurel and rhododendron “nest” trees to coppice stools and swooping live-oak ramps, they unpack species, shapes, and access. The chat ranges across myths and heuristics, defender branches, orthotropic versus horizontal shoots, group dynamics in shared trees, how adult presence changes the climb, and why our bodies feel different in trees compared with ladders. It wraps with a community callout for your best natural loose parts for the next Ludo Botany episode. 🌳 ⏱ Chapter Timings 00:44 – New cold open, studio fidgets, and scene-setting 02:30 – Ludo Botany focus: tree climbing, research versus lived experience 06:16 – Myths to mechanics: collar development, spacing, and those wrist-width rules 12:34 – Trees on slopes, branch distribution, and what that means for access 15:09 – Defender branches, orthotropic versus horizontal shoots, and bark wear 20:19 – “Nest” trees and fallen logs: comfort, horizontality, and play worlds 23:14 – Species and cultivation: coppice, mini-pollards, and live-oak style ramps 33:25 – Adult gaze, crowding, etiquette, and height as status in shared trees 37:30 – Bodies and brains: startle reflex, evolution, and why trees beat ladders 54:31 – Next up: loose parts callout and how to send in voice notes 🌲 Keywords: Ludo Botany, tree climbing, branch collar strength, defender branches, orthotropic shoots, coppice and pollard, live oaks, laurel and rhododendron nests, group dynamics, inclusive play design 🎧 Catch the full episode: Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyI YouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUs Apple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMF RSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9 🔖 Hashtags: #ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #TreeClimbing #LudoBotany 🌐 More Episodes & Support: Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

    58 min

  8. 12/01/2025

    233 - Who can be a Failure at Forest School and What can they fail at? W Lily Horseman

    In this lively, reflective episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis, Wem, and guest Lily pick apart the famous “three look afters” and ask a bigger question: who’s allowed to fail at Forest School, and how do we help people fail well? From cartilage kneecaps and Mr Potato Head jokes to space holding, autonomy versus community, and that dreaded “shit spoon” moment, they explore boundaries, blame versus shame, and how to create conditions where struggle leads to learning rather than humiliation. Expect practical facilitation nuance, philosophical detours, and a few perfect tangents about tracksuits. ⏱ Chapter Timings 00:00 – Cold open: kneecaps, bandagraphs, and Mr Potato Heads 03:14 – Axing the “three look afters”: demands, agency, and who can fail 06:06 – Flattened hierarchies or hidden authority: responsibility in practice 10:38 – Boundaries, safety, and culture shift for new groups 14:49 – Space holding, low-demand setups, and modelling altruism 21:27 – Failing well: conditions for struggle without humiliation 25:22 – Nunchi: reading the room and tailoring support 28:56 – Relational failure, shame versus guilt, and belonging 49:22 – Process over product: the “shit spoon” and reframing success 1:05:00 – Lily’s trainings, FSA roadshows, and resources 🌲 Keywords Forest School agreements, failing well, autonomy vs community, space holding, shame vs blame, boundaries and safety, facilitator judgement, process over product, reflective practice, learner agency 🔖 Hashtags #ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ReflectivePractice #CommunityLearning #NaturePlay 🎧 Catch the full episode: Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyI YouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUs Apple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMF RSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9 🌐 More Episodes & Support Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com Mentioned in this episode: Animated “What is failure?” video discussed: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1CVvtkueZU/?mibextid=wwXIfr

    1h 8m
See All (244)

4.7
out of 5
12 Ratings

About

Wem Southerden & Lewis Ames have run Forest School and training centre Children of the Forest since 2017. The Forest School Podcast was born when they wondered if their daily wafflechats and reflections about pedagogy, play and nature connection might be of interest to others. The podcast aims to inform and support educators, parents, outdoor and play practitioners and anyone interested in nature and the outdoors. Through book reviews – interviews with experts, practitioners and authors – sharing our experience as educators and business owners – deep dives on fascinating topics –

Information

  • Creator
    Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden
  • Years Active
    2018 - 2026
  • Episodes
    244
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden
  • Show Website
    The Forest School Podcast

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