The SEO Podcast: Page 2 Podcast Hosted by Jon Clark & Joe DeVita

Jon Clark, Joe DeVita
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Hosted by Jon Clark, this is a podcast about the people of SEO, their stories, and what life as an SEO is really like. Featuring some of the industry's best and brightest minds, we share our experiences (both good and bad), talk about successes and failures, share strategic and tactical knowledge, and much more.

  1. Stop Chasing Traffic: Bianca Anderson’s “Heavy Hitters” SEO Playbook 🔥

    3D AGO

    Stop Chasing Traffic: Bianca Anderson’s “Heavy Hitters” SEO Playbook 🔥

    https://page2pod.com - Episode 106 of the Page 2 Podcast features Bianca “Binks” Anderson—former SEO leader across agencies, HubSpot’s flagship blog, and Hims & Hers—breaking down why “traffic” is often the wrong north star for modern SEO. Bianca walks Jon Clark and Joe DeVita through her Heavy Hitter Framework, a conversion-weighted approach to identifying the small set of URLs driving outsized business impact (think Pareto Principle in action). Instead of panicking when organic traffic drops, this framework helps teams monitor and protect the URLs that actually move revenue—and respond faster when volatility hits. You’ll also hear Bianca’s real-world playbook for healthcare and other regulated industries, where legal review can stall (or kill) content programs. Her approach: center legal’s fears early, bake them directly into the brief, ship a defensible MVP, and scale what proves performance—without compromising user value. On the future-facing side, Bianca connects EEAT and experience-driven content to LLM visibility and AEO, including how structure (answer-first summaries, chunking, standalone sections, tables) and off-site credibility signals increasingly matter. Connect with Bianca: • Twitter/X: @BinksdoesSEO • LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/stellar-search-signals/ • Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bianca-anderson/  🛰️ In This Episode• Why “traffic” can be a misleading KPI—and what to measure instead • The Heavy Hitter Framework: finding the top converting URLs that matter most • Using tiering (including “brown dwarfs”) to spot hidden conversion opportunities • How to stay calm during volatility (including major core update swings) • A practical method for working with legal teams in high-stakes healthcare content • EEAT in 2026: experience-driven content, “taste,” and credibility signals that scale • Reddit + Ahrefs content gap research to uncover first-person angles users trust • AEO tactics: answer-first structure, tighter chunking, and LLM-friendly formatting • Newer visibility KPIs: brand citations, sentiment, assisted conversions, on-page behavior • Career and speaking advice: community, curiosity, and learning through failure If you’re trying to future-proof organic growth, this episode will help you rebuild reporting and strategy around business impact—not vanity metrics. ✅ Subscribe CTA: Subscribe to the Page 2 Podcast for more conversations on SEO strategy, AEO, and growth frameworks that actually drive revenue. 💬 Comment CTA: What’s one metric you’d replace “traffic” with in your SEO reporting—and why? Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    39 min
  2. Why Your Website Doesn’t Convert (And How to Fix It) with Talia Wolf 💡

    FEB 9

    Why Your Website Doesn’t Convert (And How to Fix It) with Talia Wolf 💡

    In this episode of the Page 2 Podcast, we sit down with Talia Wolf — founder of Getuplift, best-selling author of Emotional Targeting, and one of the world’s top CRO experts. Talia breaks down why most websites fail to convert, and it has nothing to do with button colors or headline formulas. She introduces her Emotional Targeting Framework™, a research-driven approach that uncovers the emotional drivers behind why customers actually buy. From eCommerce to B2B and service businesses, Talia shows how emotion—not best practices—should guide your CRO strategy. You’ll learn how to transform your homepage, pricing page, and product pages into high-converting assets by tapping into customer pain points, desires, and decision-making behaviors. We dive into AI’s limitations in copywriting, the psychology of trust and social image, and why optimizing your presence on Reddit, LinkedIn, and even LLMs is now mission-critical. Whether you’re a marketer, founder, or agency pro, this episode will completely reframe how you think about user experience, storytelling, and the future of conversion optimization. 🧠 In This Episode • Why traditional CRO misses the mark by ignoring customer emotions • Talia’s Emotional Targeting Framework™ and how it works • The 223 emotional triggers that drive conversions (and how to use them) • B2B vs B2C emotional differences — what really drives each persona • Why AI still fails at emotional copywriting (and what it can help with) • How to write homepages, pricing pages, and category pages that convert • Using social listening & review mining to shape messaging • The rising role of LLMs (ChatGPT, Gemini) in brand perception • Why your brand must optimize Reddit, LinkedIn & beyond • Color psychology myths — why “red means urgency” is outdated • Why “Powered by AI” and “#1 Solution” should die from your copy • Talia’s personal CRO audit method using emotional resonance grading • How conversion strategies vary between eComm, SaaS, and services • Reddit authenticity tips: Should your team post as themselves? This episode is packed with powerful insights that will help you build emotionally resonant marketing that actually converts. 👍 Don’t forget to Subscribe for more game-changing marketing conversations! 💬 Comment below: What emotion do YOU think your brand should be triggering more effectively? 📚 Resources Mentioned  • Talia Wolf on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/taliagw/ • Talia Wolf on YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@TaliaWolf • GetUplift → https://getuplift.co/ • GetUplift Case Studies → https://getuplift.co/conversion-optimization-case-studies/ • Talia's Free Emotional Targeting Course → https://getuplift.co/conversion-optimization-resources/ • Talia Wolf's personal website → https://taliawolf.com/ • Emotional Targeting (Book) → https://amzn.to/4aC3JOG • Heart Before Carts (Podcast) → https://taliawolf.com/podcast Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    53 min
  3. The Future of SEO is Now: AI, Psychology & Search with Garrett Sussman 🤯

    FEB 2

    The Future of SEO is Now: AI, Psychology & Search with Garrett Sussman 🤯

    https://page2pod.com - Garrett Sussman, Director of Marketing at iPullRank and the mastermind behind SEO Week, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita on Episode 104 of the Page 2 Podcast to decode the future of SEO. This episode goes far beyond technical SEO and dives deep into the intersections of AI, psychology, and storytelling in today’s marketing landscape. We explore why the term "SEO" might be outdated, how vector embeddings and personalization are redefining search, and why confirmation bias might be the most underrated force shaping SERPs. Garrett also takes us behind the scenes of launching a new kind of SEO conference, sharing what it really takes to build a brand within a brand. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by the pace of AI or unsure what “AI Search” or “GEO” really mean—this episode will ground you with clarity, insights, and inspiration. 🧩 In This Episode: •  How AI is reshaping search behavior and the marketer's role •  Why confirmation bias is a critical SEO factor •  The debate between GEO, AEO, and "Relevance Engineering" •  The role of vector embeddings & cosine similarity in content strategy •  Psychology, performance, and storytelling in modern marketing •  Building SEO Week: behind-the-scenes of launching a new industry event •  The tension and synergy of working with a visionary founder •  Personalization vs. privacy: the future of search bubbles •  Book recs: Thinking Fast and Slow and The Alignment Problem •  Why ChatGPT might be Garrett’s most essential SEO tool This episode is a masterclass in understanding where search is headed and how to adapt with creativity, strategy, and empathy. ✅ Subscribe for more cutting-edge insights into SEO, marketing, and AI innovation. 💬 Comment below: What do YOU think we should call the new era of SEO? AI Search, Relevance Engineering, or something else entirely? 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned •  Follow Garrett Sussman on LinkedIn •  Qforia: Query fan-out simulator •  Query fan-out content gap analyzer •  Introduction to Relevance Engineering •  The AI Search Manual •  Get your SEOWeek tickets •  Mike King's Smurf-inspired Art-and-Science of Personas •  a16z GEO over SEO Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    52 min
  4. 🧩 Inside Melissa Popp’s Multi-LLM AI Workflow for Powerful Content Strategy

    JAN 26

    🧩 Inside Melissa Popp’s Multi-LLM AI Workflow for Powerful Content Strategy

    https://page2pod.com - In this episode, Jon and Joe sit down with Melissa Popp, VP of Content Strategy & Innovation at RicketyRoo, for a deep dive into content that connects — not just ranks. With over 20 years in the game, Melissa has mastered the art of blending storytelling with strategy, using AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity to enhance (not replace) human insight. Melissa shares her exact workflow for integrating LLMs, the client onboarding questions that unlock authentic brand voices, and why internal linking deserves more love. She also explores the balance between creating at scale and crafting content that truly moves people. Whether you're an SEO pro, a content strategist, or navigating the noisy world of AI-powered marketing, this episode is a masterclass in doing content the right way. 🛠️ In This Episode • 💡 Why content should be human and honest, not just optimized • 🤖 How Melissa blends ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity into her content process • 📋 The key questions that help brands find their voice • 🔗 Using AI to uncover hidden gems for internal linking • 🧪 The power of A/B testing and regular content updates • 📉 Why Melissa avoids shortcuts like listicles for the sake of quality • 🛠️ Custom GPTs, spaces, and workflows explained • 💬 Why AI can't replace real empathy, nuance, and storytelling • 💥 How SMBs can stand out even in “unsexy” industries • 🎯 Redefining content success: from quantity to action-driven quality Whether you're updating legacy blogs or starting from scratch, Melissa offers an approach that proves good content is still the best strategy — even in an AI world. 👉 Subscribe to stay ahead of the content game. 💬 What’s one way you're integrating AI into your content process? Drop it in the comments! 📚 Resources Mentioned  • Follow Melissa on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissapopp/ • Follow Melissa on X → https://x.com/poppupwriter • Follow Melissa on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/poppupwriter/ • Follow Melissa on Bluesky → https://bsky.app/profile/melissapopp.com • Follow Melissa on Threads → https://www.threads.com/@poppupwriter • Melissa's Personal Website → https://www.melissapopp.com/ • RicketyRoo → https://ricketyroo.com/ • Melissa's Human-Led AI-Powered Playbook Presentation at WTSFest Philly: https://ricketyroo.com/blog/wtsfest-philly-2025/ Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    55 min
  5. 💡 How Accessibility Boosts SEO & UX | Amber Hinds of Equalize Digital

    JAN 19

    💡 How Accessibility Boosts SEO & UX | Amber Hinds of Equalize Digital

    We dive into the essential and often misunderstood world of website accessibility with Amber Hinds, CEO of Equalize Digital. Amber is a leading force in digital accessibility, building tools and services that help organizations stay compliant and inclusive—while also improving SEO, UX, and conversions. From her start in web development to leading audits for higher ed and federal entities, Amber walks us through the real impact of accessibility—from legal compliance and lawsuits to measurable business improvements like lower bounce rates, increased conversions, and fewer support tickets. She breaks down where automated tools fall short, why remediation matters, and how accessibility overlaps directly with SEO strategies. We also dig into her Page Builder Accessibility Report, offering a transparent look at how major WordPress tools perform when it comes to inclusive design. Whether you're a dev, marketer, or site owner, this episode is packed with actionable insights that can future-proof your website—and your business. 🧠 In This Episode • Why web accessibility is more than a legal checkbox • Real-world examples of audits that led to increased traffic & conversions • What makes automated accessibility checkers effective (and their limits) • The overlap between accessibility, SEO, and UX • How to audit, remediate, and maintain accessibility like you do with SEO • Common issues with page builders, buttons, and form plugins • Why choosing the right font, color contrast, and heading structure matters • Legal risks and compliance standards (WCAG, ADA, European Accessibility Act) • Tips on prioritizing fixes from the bottom of the funnel up • How WordPress users can leverage Accessibility Checker for ongoing audits Empower your business by designing for everyone. Accessibility isn't just ethical—it's a smart, scalable advantage. 📩 Subscribe to learn from top voices in SEO, UX, and digital innovation. 💬 What’s your biggest accessibility challenge? Drop it in the comments! 🔗 Mentioned Resources & Links • Equalize Digital Website – https://equalizedigital.com • Amber Hinds on Twitter (X) – https://twitter.com/heyamberhinds • Amber Hinds on BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/amberhinds.bsky.social • Amber Hinds on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amberhinds/ • Amber Hinds on Github – https://github.com/amberhinds • Facebook Accessibility Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/wordpress.accessibility • Accessibility Checker Plugin – https://equalizedigital.com/accessibility-checker/ • Page Builder Accessibility Report (2024) – https://equalizedigital.com/page-builder-accessibility-report/ • Page Builder Accessibility Report (2025) - https://equalizedigital.com/page-builder-accessibility-report-2025-update-amber-hinds/ • WP Accessibility Day Conference – https://wpaccessibilityday.org • Deque Axe Core (Open Source Library) – https://github.com/dequelabs/axe-core • Gravity Forms (recommended accessible form plugin) – https://www.gravityforms.com • Highland Community College Accessibility Case Study – https://equalizedigital.com/from-complaint-to-compliance-highland-community-colleges-journey-to-website-accessibility/ • Failures and Successes - https://amberhinds.com/2025/12/2025-failures-and-successes/ • Accessibility Craft Podcast – https://equalizedigital.com/accessibility-craft-podcast/ • Belching Beaver Peanut Butter Milk Stout – https://belchingbeaver.com/beer/peanut-butter-milk-stout Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    51 min
  6. Inside Barry Schwartz’s SEO Brain: Automation, AI & Search in 2026 🤯

    JAN 12

    Inside Barry Schwartz’s SEO Brain: Automation, AI & Search in 2026 🤯

    In this kickoff to Season 5 of the Page 2 Podcast, Jon Clark and Joe speak with Barry Schwartz — the legendary technologist behind RustyBrick and the prolific voice of Search Engine Roundtable and Search Engine Land. With nearly 45,000 posts under his belt and decades of SEO insights, Barry reveals how he's built an unstoppable publishing machine while running a thriving custom software business. From automating billing at RustyBrick to maintaining an obsessive publishing schedule that starts at 5 AM, Barry shares how efficiency and passion drive everything he does. Learn how he's adapted to AI tools like Claude and Midjourney, his take on Google’s AI overviews, why automation doesn’t threaten jobs, and how he views trust, content longevity, and the future of search. 🤖 In This Episode • Barry’s dual role as CEO of RustyBrick and SEO journalist • How he manages 50,000 posts without SEO services • Why automation empowers teams (not replaces them) • His take on AI’s role in software and content creation • Barry’s strict 5AM productivity routine & batching strategy • Using Claude & Midjourney in real-world tech workflows • Thoughts on AI overviews, content syndication, & traffic impact • Why Barry won’t remove old SEO posts (archival value matters) • The right way to become a speaker at SEO conferences • The role of Feedly, social media scheduling, and A/B testing • His honest view on LLM content usage and trust in search This episode is a goldmine for marketers, SEOs, and technologists navigating the shifting landscape of AI, automation, and publishing in 2026. 👉 Subscribe to stay ahead of SEO & tech trends! 💬 Comment below: How are you using automation or AI to streamline your business or workflow? Follow Barry Schwartz • Search Engine Roundtable – https://www.seroundtable.com • RustyBrick – https://www.rustybrick.com • Youtube:  ⁨@rustybrick⁩ • Twitter: http://twitter.com/rustybrick • Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rustybrick Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    48 min
  7. Rand Fishkin on Escaping VC Culture, Google Leaks & AI Truths 🤖 | Episode 100

    11/03/2025

    Rand Fishkin on Escaping VC Culture, Google Leaks & AI Truths 🤖 | Episode 100

    https://page2pod.com - In this landmark 100th episode of the Page 2 Podcast, Rand Fishkin returns to reflect on life after Moz, the liberation of leaving venture capital behind, and his journey with SparkToro. He opens up about the recent Google API leaks, the real impact of AI and LLMs in marketing, and how the digital landscape is evolving toward a zero-click future. With transparency, humor, and loads of insight, Rand dives deep into audience research, entrepreneurship, and what still excites (and frustrates) him in search marketing. Whether you're a digital marketer, entrepreneur, or SEO nerd, this episode is packed with actionable advice and real talk from one of the industry's most authentic voices. 🔍 In This Episode: 🎯 Rand explains the emotional toll and freedom of leaving Moz and VC pressures 🔍 Behind the scenes of SparkToro’s clickstream-powered insights 📁 The real story behind the Google search API leak and its validation 🔄 Why the SEO influencer space feels stale—and what might change 🧠 Rand's take on AI: useful tools vs. overhyped tech 📊 How SparkToro integrates LLMs to improve audience targeting 🧪 The importance of testing and data-driven marketing experiments 🧑‍🍳 A surprising story about ultrasonic knives and finding product-market fit 🛒 Smart Q4 e-commerce tips for brands both big and small 🌐 Why your website still matters—but so does zero-click marketing 🔮 Rand's predictions for SparkToro, AlertMouse, and the future of search From philosophical shifts in business to the power of podcasts in training AI models, this episode is a masterclass in modern marketing. 📚 Resources Mentioned • Rand Fishkin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/ • SparkToro:  https://sparktoro.com • SnackBar Studio: Rand's game dev studio - https://snackbarstudio.com • AlertMouse: Rand's media monitoring tool - https://alertmouse.com/ • Seattle Ultrasonics: Knife startup mentioned - https://seattleultrasonics.com/ • Google Leak: https://sparktoro.com/blog/an-anonymous-source-shared-thousands-of-leaked-google-search-api-documents-with-me-everyone-in-seo-should-see-them/ • IMEC Lab: https://sparktoro.com/blog/imec-lab/ Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    48 min
  8. LLM Rankings Explained: How ChatGPT & Perplexity Surface Content in 2025 with Metehan Yesilyurt

    10/27/2025

    LLM Rankings Explained: How ChatGPT & Perplexity Surface Content in 2025 with Metehan Yesilyurt

    https://page2pod.com - In this episode, Jon Clark and Joe DeVita engage with Metehan Yesilyurt to explore the evolving landscape of SEO in the age of AI. They discuss the transition from traditional SEO metrics to new paradigms influenced by AI technologies, including the concept of Rank Fusion and the importance of brand visibility.  The conversation delves into practical strategies for optimizing content for AI search engines, the role of platforms like YouTube, and the future of e-commerce with AI integration. The episode concludes with predictions for the dominance of AI search engines by 2027. Metehan dives deep into the seismic shifts in how search engines are evolving, including how visibility works in Large Language Models, the mechanics of Reciprocal Rank Fusion (RRF), and why the classic SEO metric of “rank” is rapidly becoming outdated. From prompt analysis and AI-driven content strategy to platform-specific publishing cadences and the surprising power of YouTube in LLMs, this episode is a must-listen for digital marketers and SEOs who want to stay ahead of the curve. 💡 In This Episode (🧠): • Why Metehan left traditional SEO for AI-driven discovery • The founding story and mission behind AEO Vision • How LLMs like ChatGPT and Perplexity “rank” content differently • What Reciprocal Rank Fusion (RRF) is and how it impacts visibility • Why brand mentions matter more than backlinks in AI search • The role of schema, structured content, and semantic chunking • Why you shouldn’t optimize solely for LLMs (and how it hurts SEO) • How YouTube is a powerful but underrated channel for AI visibility • Prompt analysis: what real user questions reveal about content strategy • Predictions on who will dominate AI search by 2027 If you're looking to understand the next wave of search and how to optimize for it, this episode will arm you with the knowledge you need. 🔔 Subscribe to stay ahead in SEO, AI, and digital marketing trends every week! 💬 What are you doing to optimize for AI and LLM search? Drop your thoughts in the comments below! 🔗 Mentioned in the Episode: • Follow Metehan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/metehanyesilyurt/ • AEO Vision:  https://aeovision.ai • AI Share Buttons: https://metehan.ai/blog/citemet-ai-share-buttons-growth-hack-for-llms/ • Reciprocal Rank Fusion (RRF) 👉 https://plg.uwaterloo.ca/~gvcormac/cormacksigir09-rrf.pdf 👉 https://metehan.ai/blog/chatgpt-is-using-reciprocal-rank-fusion-rrf/ Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media Follow the Page 2 Podcast Page 2 Podcast on YoutubePage 2 Podcast on LinkedinPage 2 Podcast on FacebookFollow Jon Clark Jon Clark on BlueskyJon Clark on Linkedin

    53 min
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5
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16 Ratings

About

Hosted by Jon Clark, this is a podcast about the people of SEO, their stories, and what life as an SEO is really like. Featuring some of the industry's best and brightest minds, we share our experiences (both good and bad), talk about successes and failures, share strategic and tactical knowledge, and much more.

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