The SEO Podcast: Page 2 Podcast

Jon Clark, Joe DeVita
  • 5.0 (16)
  • Marketing
  • Weekly

The Page 2 Podcast is an interview show about SEO, AEO, and GEO, hosted by Jon Clark and Joe DeVita. The format is a long-form conversation with the practitioners doing the work: agency founders, in-house SEO leads, technical specialists, and builders of AI visibility tools. We get into the tests guests ran and what they found, how they track brand visibility in ChatGPT, Gemini, and Google's AI Overviews, what's changing in local and technical SEO, and how they're restructuring teams and client work as search changes. Past guests include Rand Fishkin, Mike King, Lily Ray and Darren Shaw.

  1. 1d ago

    🤖 AI Traffic Converts 3x Better? GA4 Attribution Explained with Dana DiTomaso

    https://page2pod.com - Is your Google Analytics 4 (GA4) data giving you the wrong picture of your marketing performance? From broken conversion tracking and misleading attribution to AI search traffic and consent management, the numbers you trust might not be telling the full story. Dana DiTomaso, Principal & Founder of Kick Point and founder of Analytics Playbook, has spent more than two decades helping businesses understand their marketing data, and her LinkedIn Learning courses have reached more than 190,000 people. She joins Jon Clark and co-host Constance Chen of Moving Traffic Media to walk through the measurement mistakes that quietly distort reporting. Most GA4 discrepancies aren't caused by missing data. They come from setup and context: staging sites sending test purchases into the production property (one client's revenue was 20% staging), consent settings that hide most visitors, ad platforms that each claim the same conversion, and AI referrals that land in direct. Dana explains how to check each one. She also explains why AI referral traffic is often only 1–5% of visits but can convert at two to three times the rate of organic search.📊 In This Episode • Why doesn't GA4 revenue match your backend? Hostname checks and a three-property setup • Consent management platforms and the opt-in data gap • GA4 settings to change on day one: data retention and attribution • What is (not set) and unassigned traffic in GA4? • UTM rules, event naming conventions, and custom channels for Yelp, GBP, and AI • AI referral traffic, dark traffic, and when direct traffic is too high • Page purpose tagging and content consumption as a content metricA practical GA4 and Google Tag Manager tune-up for anyone who reports on SEO, paid, or AI search performance. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing the work → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1 💬 What's the strangest thing you've found polluting a GA4 property? Tell us in the comments. #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a full-service AEO Agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast/Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned • Plausible, GA4, and Matomo cookieless tracking comparison: https://kpplaybook.com/resources/how-cookieless-tracking-works/ • Renaming the Unassigned channel in GA4: https://kpplaybook.com/resources/ga4-unassigned-traffic-rename-channels/ • UTM and attribution guide: https://kpplaybook.com/how-to-track-campaigns-in-ga4-using-utm-parameters/ • Regex for improving GA4’s AI Assistance channel: https://kpplaybook.com/resources/how-to-report-on-traffic-from-ai-tools-in-ga4/ • Content consumption GTM recipe / WordPress plugin: https://kpplaybook.com/resources/content-consumption-measurement/ • Custom GA4 channels for Google Business Profiles and Yelp: https://kpplaybook.com/resources/track-offline-advertising-ga4-utm-redirects/

    🤖 AI Traffic Converts 3x Better? GA4 Attribution Explained with Dana DiTomaso

  2. Oct 25

    GEO vs. SEO: What Actually Works in AI Search? 🤖 | Ross Hudgens

    https://page2pod.com - Generative engine optimization (GEO) runs on off-site signals: reviews, Reddit, publishers and best-of lists. Ross Hudgens explains.Ross Hudgens, Founder & CEO of Siege Media and author of the new Wiley book Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO, returns to Page 2 seven years after his season one appearance. So what's actually new about GEO? Ross's answer: for national brands, off-site reviews and third-party mentions now feed AI answers directly, the same way Google and Yelp reviews have always shaped local search.Jon Clark and Joe DeVita dig into how that shift is forcing Siege to rebuild its own agency. Siege is doing far less top-of-funnel content, running digital PR as a year-long relationship program instead of a trial, and adding reputation management, influencer, affiliate and paid Reddit. Ross also explains why the SEO team may not be able to own GEO on its own, and what a GEO-first organization looks like.📘 In This Episode • What's actually different about generative engine optimization vs. SEO? • Why the digital PR trial is over: per-client media lists and quarterly campaigns • Getting PR teams on board before a digital PR contract is signed • The data flywheel and "credibility nuggets" for refreshing existing content • "Best for a segment" vs. "best overall" in best-of listicles and AI answers • Paid Reddit, reputation management and customer service as GEO channels • How should a brand structure a GEO-first team?A candid look at what it takes to reinvent an agency, and a brand's search strategy, while you're still running it.🔔 Subscribe for more practitioner conversations on SEO, AEO and GEO. 💬 Does your brand call itself "best overall," or best for a specific segment? Tell us in the comments.• Ross Hudgens on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosshudgens/ • Siege Media → https://www.siegemedia.com • Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO → https://link.amazon/B05IK55qm • Content Conversation (Ross's show) on YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/c/SiegeMedia • Discuss this episode on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned • BuzzStream (Ross's outreach interview) → https://www.buzzstream.com/blog/ross-hudgens-podcast/ • Comparison Pages → https://www.siegemedia.com/research/versus-pages • The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz (audiobook) → https://link.amazon/B0hzovYPU • Where AI Gets Its Buying Advice BOFU Data Study → https://www.siegemedia.com/research/ai-buying-advice

    GEO vs. SEO: What Actually Works in AI Search? 🤖 | Ross Hudgens

  3. Oct 19

    🚨 Is Google Breaking SEO? Semrush’s Marcus Tober on AI Search & Rank Tracking

    https://page2pod.com - How do brands improve AI visibility when the data behind search is getting harder to trust? Marcus Tober, SVP of Enterprise Solutions at Semrush and founder of Searchmetrics, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to unpack what's breaking in search measurement and what still works. Marcus's short answer on AI visibility: describe your business clearly and neutrally on your own site, using well-structured headlines and paragraphs that AI can lift as passages. He shares how a ~30-year category leader with top SEO visibility lagged in AI search until it added plain homepage copy about what it does. Its visibility jumped almost immediately. He also explains why he believes Google's num=100 removal and go-to redirects are really about AI agents. He estimates their request volume at 1,000x+ what SEO scrapers ever sent. For Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) practitioners, the conversation also covers log files as a leading indicator for dark AI traffic, the impression inflation hitting Search Console, ChatGPT referral traffic doubling for many brands from August into October, and the first AI spam policy from Anthropic. 📡 In This Episode Why rank tracking got harder after num=100 and go-to redirectsAre AI agents inflating Search Console impressions?Mirroring logged-out ChatGPT results, and why prompts aren't keywordsMeasuring AI search ROI as ChatGPT becomes a destinationLog file analysis for AI user bots and dark trafficHow should brands structure content for AI citations?Neutral language vs. superlatives as an AI trust signal A rare inside look at search data from someone who has spent two decades collecting it. 🔔 Subscribe for weekly conversations with the practitioners shaping SEO, AEO, and GEO → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1💬 Have you checked your log files for AI user bots yet? Tell us what you found in the comments. Connect with Marcus Tober ✅ Marcus Tober on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcustober ✅ Marcus Tober on X → https://x.com/marcustober ✅ Marcus Tober's Personal Website → https://marcustober.com Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a Full-Service AEO Agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Reddit → hhttps://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast/ Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned Semrush (Core + Enterprise, AI Toolkit) → https://www.semrush.comSemrush Enterprise Query fan-out analysis → https://www.semrush.com/news/442193-query-fan-out-analysis-comes-to-semrush-enterprise-ai-optimization-revealing-the-search-signals-behind-ai-responses/Semrush Enterprise Log File Analysis → https://www.semrush.com/news/445236-semrush-enterprise-adds-log-file-analysis-to-site-intelligence-and-ai-optimization/Semrush Spotlight → https://lnkd.in/p/gUaAkXMqNozzle's Poised SERP Report → https://nozzle.io/research/poisoned-google-serps/

    🚨 Is Google Breaking SEO? Semrush’s Marcus Tober on AI Search & Rank Tracking

  4. Oct 11

    🚀 Affiliate Marketing in the Age of AI Search with Adam Riemer

    https://page2pod.com - Affiliate marketing is turning into an AI visibility channel, and Adam Riemer argues most brands are paying the wrong partners for it.Adam Riemer, founder and CEO of Adam Riemer Marketing and a Search Engine Journal "Ask an SEO" columnist, has spent more than 20 years working where affiliate marketing and SEO overlap. His argument: AI answers are increasingly personalized to the individual user, so the source that shapes a recommendation is the author, creator, or community your specific buyer already trusts, not simply the biggest publication. Two people with the same age, income, and magazine subscriptions can still follow completely different writers.So how should brands pay for Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) visibility through partners? Adam's short answer: if a partner reaches your audience and can drive revenue, pay a flat media fee plus commission, and never purge a dormant affiliate that AI assistants keep surfacing. Jon Clark and Joe DeVita also get into affiliate tracking without cookies, valuing YouTube versus TikTok creators, and where SEO and affiliate teams clash.🍷 In This Episode - Why audience-matched authors may matter more than big publications in personalized AI answers - How should you pay affiliates who influence AI answers but never send a click? - Server-side tracking, app conversions, and click-free podcast attribution - YouTube vs. TikTok creators: long-term content investment vs. short-term sales burst - Re-engaging dormant affiliates that LLMs keep citing - Affiliate subnetworks, brand-term bidding, and the program governance most brands skip - Do affiliate links count as backlinks?A practical look at where affiliate marketing, SEO, and AI search collide, from someone who works hands-on in all three. 💬 Has an affiliate or niche creator ever shown up for your brand in ChatGPT or AI Overviews? How did you find out? Tell us in the comments. 🔗 Adam Riemer on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-riemer-9623732/🔗 Adam Riemer Marketing → https://adamriemer.me🔗 Adam's "Ask an SEO" column on Search Engine Journal → https://www.searchenginejournal.com/author/adam-riemer/ ####Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a full-service AEO agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.comFollow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/r/page2podcast/Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - How Can Affiliate Managers And SEOs Stay Relevant In The AI Era? → https://www.searchenginejournal.com/ask-an-seo-3-actionable-ways-affiliate-managers-seos-can-keep-relevant/573607/ - Affiliate Links are Backlinks for SEO, But Bad Ones → https://www.linkedin.com/posts/adam-riemer-9623732_affiliatemarketing-seo-marketing-share-7132742387948228609-PQ1q/ - A 6-Step, Money-Making, AI Content Strategy for Affiliates → https://www.adamriemer.me/affiliate-marketing/a-6-step-money-making-ai-content-strategy-for-affiliates/ - Affiliate Marketing Has Evolved from Pay on Performance → https://www.adamriemer.me/affiliate-marketing/affiliate-marketing-evolved-pay-on-performance/ - Your Best Selling Product is Not Based on the Number of Sales → https://www.adamriemer.me/other/your-best-selling-product-is-not-based-on-the-number-of-sales/

    🚀 Affiliate Marketing in the Age of AI Search with Adam Riemer

  5. Oct 4

    What AI Bots See When They Don't Render JavaScript (JS) 👀 with Tory Gray

    https://page2pod.com - Agentic readiness starts with a business decision, not a code change: what should AI agents be able to access and do on your site? Tory Gray, CEO of The Gray Dot Company, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to explain why the technical side of agent readiness is the easy part. The standards exist; the hard part is imagining how people will actually use agents and choosing which actions to enable (purchasing, API workflows, account tasks) and which to block. She also warns against treating JavaScript as a wall: most AI bots don't render, but agents can render when a user pays for it, or simply take a screenshot. Tory brings a product manager's lens to technical SEO, Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). She breaks down why pagination and infinite scroll still go wrong, the two-tier test for programmatic SEO, and how to build user-generated content systems so your site becomes the Reddit of your niche instead of just posting on it. ⚙️ In This Episode - What should AI agents be allowed to do on your website? - Can JavaScript keep AI crawlers out, and should you rely on it? - Pagination and infinite scroll: engagement KPIs vs. conversion KPIs - The two-tier programmatic SEO test: real user demand, then a moat - Building UGC systems with automated indexing rules and human review - Google's agentic guidance: accessibility tree, layout shift, and screenshots - Title, canonical, and meta robots tags that move out of the head after rendering A practical look at how websites are changing as agents become a third audience alongside people and search engines. 🔔 Subscribe for weekly conversations with the practitioners shaping SEO, AEO, and GEO → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1 💬 Has your team decided what AI agents should be allowed to do on your site, or is it still undecided? Tell us in the comments. Connect with Tory Gray ✅ The Gray Dot Company → https://thegray.company ✅ Tory Gray on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/torygray/ #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media, a Full-Service → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - AI Difference Engine (Chrome extension) → https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/eabfgiogeabkaekjkeocambpbgnjmfkk - Rendering Difference Engine (Chrome extension) → https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/rendering-difference-engi/dhcimplbimmmpjpiolnmdjdchnknmend - The Gray Dot Company's user-generated content guide → https://thegray.company/blog/user-generated-content-seo - Sitebulb Webinar: How to Build an AI Skill for Your SEO Workflow → https://sitebulb.com/resources/guides/webinar-how-to-build-an-ai-skill-for-your-seo-workflow/ - Pagination SEO Best Practices → https://thegray.company/blog/pagination-seo-guide

    What AI Bots See When They Don't Render JavaScript (JS) 👀 with Tory Gray

  6. Sep 27

    Local SEO Experiments That Actually Worked: Maps, AI, Reddit & Reviews 🧪 with Andrew Shotland

    https://page2pod.com - Local SEO for AI search: Andrew Shotland shares the experiments that moved Map Pack, Google AI, and ChatGPT visibility. Andrew Shotland, founder and CEO of Local SEO Guide, has spent nearly 20 years doing local SEO for everyone from Walmart to single-location businesses. His short answer on what drives local visibility now is proximity, engagement, and reviews. In a Local Falcon study of roughly seven million local queries, a business's first 200 reviews did most of the ranking work across local packs, Google AI, and ChatGPT. After that point, additional reviews mainly expanded the radius where the business ranks. Andrew also walks through the tests behind his thinking. He had people request driving directions to a business to see if map rankings moved. He recommends opening a legitimate second location instead of producing more content. He explains how review language maps to LLM conversation paths, which is where local SEO meets Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). And he describes a Reddit brand-mention test where AI visibility spiked, then disappeared as soon as the posting stopped. 📍 In This Episode Can driving-direction requests move Map Pack rankings?Why a legitimate second location can beat months of content workLocal Services Ads (LSAs): service areas, lead quality, and rising CPCsApple Maps ads: 25-character copy, images as copy, and tracking workaroundsHow many Google reviews do you need to rank?Review text, LLM conversation paths, and citation syndicationThe Reddit brand-mention experiment and AI visibilityA practitioner's look at which local SEO tactics hold up once AI systems are answering the "near me" question. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing the work → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922?sub_confirmation=1 💬 How many reviews does the top-ranked business in your market have? Did reaching that number move your rankings? Tell us in the comments. Follow Andrew Shotland ✅ Andrew Shotland / Local SEO Guide → https://www.localseoguide.com ✅ Andrew Shotland on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/localseoguide/ 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned 🔗 Andrew's Apple Maps ads blog post → https://www.localseoguide.com/everything-i-know-about-apple-maps-ads-so-far/ 🔗 Local SEO Guide Reddit study → https://sitebulb.com/resources/guides/reddit-is-no-longer-just-a-nerd-forum-its-an-ai-visibility-lever/ 🔗 How Reviews Influence AI Overviews → https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.localseoguide.com/how-reviews-influence-ai-overviews-and-local-rankings/ 🔗 Yext Local Data Study → https://www.localseoguide.com/yext-research-shares-a-few-billion-data-points-with-seos/ Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media a Full-Service AEO Agency → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark

    Local SEO Experiments That Actually Worked: Maps, AI, Reddit & Reviews 🧪 with Andrew Shotland

  7. Sep 21

    Local SEO in AI Search: What Actually Works 🔍 with Greg Gifford

    https://page2pod.com - Your primary Google Business Profile category is the most powerful local ranking signal you control, and most businesses pick the wrong one. Greg Gifford, Chief Strategy Officer at SearchLab, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita to separate what's actually changing in local search from the noise. His position: SEO isn't being replaced, but the foundations now feed a second consumer. AI models pull from the same local directories, reviews, and off-site brand signals that local SEO has always depended on — Yext research found 86% of AI citations for local businesses come from local SEO directory sites — which makes accuracy and off-site presence more valuable, not less. Greg also gets into why SearchLab reorganized its SEO team around specialists instead of generalists, why customer service became a retention lever, and why AI search is probabilistic rather than deterministic — so the recommendation matters more than the citation link everyone's tracking. Plus a lot of automotive: OEM content pushdowns, the approved vendor program, and why dealerships consistently misunderstand service and parts search. 📍 In This Episode - Why SearchLab moved from SEO generalists to specialist teams — and how they ran the re-org without losing people - Is your primary Google Business Profile category costing you map pack visibility? - Why dealerships lose service and parts searches to Jiffy Lube - Separate department profiles for parts and service, and the eligibility rule Google waived for car dealers - When do city and location pages cross the line into doorway page spam? - Review gating, the FTC update, and why Google is removing reviews 400 at a time - Recovering filtered Yelp reviews — a 15–20% return without earning a single new review - Local citations as the ante, not the win: what directories actually do for AI search visibility - Digital PR as off-site brand building, not link building with a new name A practical look at where local SEO fundamentals still hold, where they've quietly changed, and what AI search is rewarding right now. Subscribe for new episodes with the practitioners actually doing this work. Comment below: what's your primary Google Business Profile category, and when was the last time you actually questioned it? Connect with Greg Gifford ✅ SearchLab Digital → https://searchlabdigital.com ✅ Greg on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/greggifford/ ✅ Greg on Reddit → https://www.reddit.com/user/BAMFOC ✅ Greg on X: https://twitter.com/greggifford ✅ Greg on Bluesky: ​​https://bsky.app/profile/greggifford.bsky.social ✅ Greg on Slidesshare: https://www.slideshare.net/greggifford?itemsPerPage=16 #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - Culture Index (hiring/personality pattern tool) → https://www.cultureindex.com - Culture Index (hiring/personality pattern tool) → https://www.cultureindex.com - Google Business Profile + the GBP Community Forum → https://support.google.com/business/community?hl=en - Local Search Tuesday → https://searchlabdigital.com/local-search-tuesdays/ - G50 Summit (SEO Oktoberfest) → https://seoktoberfest.net/ - SEO Week Presentation → https://seoweek.org/greg-gifford/

    Local SEO in AI Search: What Actually Works 🔍 with Greg Gifford

  8. Sep 14

    Why Video Is Now Table Stakes for SEO 🎥 with Cindy Krum

    https://page2pod.com - Why social and video now decide whether your brand makes it into AI Overviews — and why your own website is the last place to optimize. Cindy Krum, founder and CEO of MobileMoxie, argues that video has moved from a digital marketing must to an SEO must. Her case: LLMs are consensus machines. They don't care that your site says you're the best at something — they're aggregating what social, reviews, publishers, creators, and video say about you. If the web can't agree on what your brand is for, you haven't done the work. She also walks through why a long-form video with real chapters behaves like a set of separate blog posts, each section eligible to answer a different question, and why short-form vertical video still matters for discovery even though it isn't showing up in AI Overviews yet. Plus: entity-first indexing, query fan-out, People Also Ask as the testing ground for AI Overview inclusion, and where Google Discover, Merchant Center, and TikTok Shop collide. 🎥 In This Episode - Why Google keeps pulling YouTube into AI Overviews - Do engagement metrics matter for getting cited by AI? - Scripting video so the transcript contains the actual search phrase - Turning your help center and FAQ pages into video answers - Where vertical video ranks today — and where it doesn't - What should a video chapter structure actually look like? - Entity-first indexing, MUM, and query fan-out, explained plainly - Building an entity plus its modifiers into an AEO prompt set - Who owns SEO when discovery happens on social and Reddit If search has become a journey that moves across platforms, this is a practical map of where to spend your effort first. Subscribe for weekly conversations with the practitioners shaping SEO, AEO, and GEO. Drop a comment: at your company, who actually owns social video — the SEO team or the social team? And has that changed in the last year? Find Cindy Krum ✅ MobileMoxie → https://mobilemoxie.com ✅ Cindy on X → https://x.com/suzzicks ✅ Cindy on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/cindykrum #### Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media → https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com Follow the Page 2 Podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Youtube → https://www.youtube.com/@thepage2podcast922 ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/company/page2podcast ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/ThePage2Podcast/ ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/page2pod ✅ Page 2 Podcast on Tiktok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jonleeclark Follow Jon Clark ✅ Jon Clark Official Site → https://jonclark.co ✅ Jon Clark on Twitter → https://x.com/jonlclark ✅ Jon Clark on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlclark Chapters 0:00 Search Beyond the Website 2:16 Cindy Krum and MobileMoxie 5:51 Why Google Cares About Video 8:49 How Social Drives Brand-First Search 11:47 Scripting Video for Keywords 13:56 Turning Support Content Into Video 15:42 Vertical Video and AI Overviews 17:40 How Should You Structure Chapters? 20:12 Sponsor: Moving Traffic Media 20:56 AEO as a Branding Channel 24:15 Journeys, Micro-Moments, and MUM 26:53 Entity-First Indexing Explained 31:44 People Also Ask as Query Fan-Out 33:53 Merchant Center, Discover, TikTok Shop 38:45 Where to Focus for AI Overviews 40:02 Who Owns SEO Now? 44:14 Rapid Fire and Career Advice 🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned - OtterlyAI (Thomas Peham, previous episode) → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJsQ2qJho-M - All About Fraggles → https://moz.com/blog/fraggles - Google MUM (Multitask Unified Model) → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQDRL8MwVj0 - See Cindy at the Amaze Conference → https://amazeconference.com/

    Why Video Is Now Table Stakes for SEO 🎥 with Cindy Krum
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5
out of 5
16 Ratings

About

The Page 2 Podcast is an interview show about SEO, AEO, and GEO, hosted by Jon Clark and Joe DeVita. The format is a long-form conversation with the practitioners doing the work: agency founders, in-house SEO leads, technical specialists, and builders of AI visibility tools. We get into the tests guests ran and what they found, how they track brand visibility in ChatGPT, Gemini, and Google's AI Overviews, what's changing in local and technical SEO, and how they're restructuring teams and client work as search changes. Past guests include Rand Fishkin, Mike King, Lily Ray and Darren Shaw.

Information

  • Creator
    Jon Clark, Joe DeVita
  • Years Active
    2018 - 2026
  • Episodes
    142
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Jon Clark, Joe DeVita
  • Show Website
    The SEO Podcast: Page 2 Podcast