The Unforgiving60

Ben Pronk, DSC & Tim Curtis
  • 4.8 (5)
  • MANAGEMENT

Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.

  1. JAN 23

    Reviving S2E17 – On Parenting with Steve Biddulph, AM

    Steve Biddulph is one of the world’s best-known parent educators. Steve has been a psychologist for 30 years and his books have sold over four million copies as well as having been translated into 31 languages.    Ben and Tim talk with Steve about their own transformations after reading his books and talk the differences between raising boys and raising girls.   As well as plenty of good old-fashioned hugging. It’s alright to be affectionate peeps!   Listen in then try a few of Steve’s practical techniques.     Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 04:50   Steve talks about how and why he got into psychology…. You’ll be surprised. 08:30   Initial interest in the psychology of men and boys and family therapy (at age 24). And watching Dad’s struggling to parent. 11:33   Raising Boys - the End Product. What makes a good man? 14:45   Tim tells his story about how Steve’s book changed his relationships. 20:30   Tim keeps talking about hugging blokes. 21:30   Steve talks about a generation that is ‘thawing out’. 26:30   How different is this generation of children? 30:45   On traumatic stress and cumulation. Advice for parents. 31:00   The importance of rest and restoration as a family. 33:33   On mothers and sons (and Celia Lashlie’s work and book) … and that book is here . 38:45   Boys start off in Mum’s world … and then re-orientates. 41:00   About mentors for boys and building a bundle of masculinity. 45:50   Raising Girls- What’s the difference? 47:30   Girls sensitivity to social cues… and what the advertisers know and how they exploit it. 49:22   Steve on why the world is mistreating girls. 50:30   Feminism and all its gains are in jeopardy. Social media, mirrors, internet and TV. 52:00   Hyenas are stalking our girls. 52:45   Pornography and kids. 58:00   How can we parent more resilient kids? 1:00:00 What about corporal punishment? 1:03:15 Modern boundaries. 1:04:25 Closing words of advice of things to do with our sons and daughters. Changing the dynamic.       External Links www.stevebiddulph.com     Music By Mitchell Martin … 'Beautiful' and 'Be Myself' ... Available on Spotify

    1h 12m

  2. JAN 22

    Revival of S2E1- SAS Tactics to Fight the Apocalypse - with Mick Neven from the Apocalypse Comedy Podcast

    It's the year 2100. How would SAS inspired tactics fight the Zombie Apocalypse? Mick Neven is 120 years old but still a comedic legend. He loves a good apocalypse and has a comedy show to prove it! Zombies are descending. What's YOUR life choice!?!?   Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 0:30. The Situation in the year 2100 5:05. Welcome Mick Neven – Genius Mind & 'What do you have'? 7:20. When running from the tiger when do you rest? 8:30. From your childhood what do you bring? 9:00. Ben and Tim’s biological relationship 09:30. Mark Wales .... from Survivor....  Sux! 12:20. Ben and Tim’s early story 14:00. Talking SAS Selection 20:15. Would you have ‘them’ in your workforce? 22:15. Why Mick is in elite company! 24:25. How Comedians are funny- from Mick (not Ben and Tim!). 31:00. Australian v UK Comedy demand. 42:00. Ben wants high tech stuff in the Zombie Apocalypse! 44:30. Plans and the Zombies! Mick is sceptical! 47:45. Mick’s skills are critical!!!! 52:00. Mick thinks Ben and Tim can’t unite anyone! 52:40. Cray fisherman 56:45. What skills do we need in the apocalypse? 58:00. Obstacle Planning 1:04:00 Park runners we need you!!! 1:05:30 Tim’s obstacle plan- “The Molasses Pit” 1:06:00 How to kill with combine harvesters., 1:08:30 Tim takes a selfie on the edge of - “The Molasses Pit”. Doesn’t end well. 1:11:30 Designing a “The Molasses Pit”. 1:12:00 Farewells and pleasantries!   Music. NEW Music from The Externals in this Episode. Music from The Externals is available on Spotify.   More  www.unforgiving60.com Contact Us debrief@unforgiving60.com

    1h 21m

  3. 05/31/2025

    S5E17- Ashley Semmens: The Clearance Diver who is finning the English Channel

    Ashley Semmens is a former Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diver who served for 18 years, specialising in explosive ordnance disposal. He has deployed multiple times, including to Afghanistan, and participated in Australia's military withdrawal in 2021. After surviving trauma from an IED attack, a sniper incident, and a horrific shark attack aftermath in Sydney Harbour, Ashley was medically discharged due to PTSD. Now, he's preparing to swim the English Channel — not just any swim, but on his back, using fins. It's a fundraising mission for the Navy Clearance Diver Trust and a deeply personal journey into fear, resilience, and purpose. In this episode, Ash opens up about overcoming fear of the water, losing close mates, post-service mental health, and how he’s turning pain into a platform for support and recovery. Key Moments 00:00 – Ben and Tim intro the episode and Ash’s unique goal: finning across the English Channel 01:14 – Comparison to Sam Penny’s Channel swim (Season 1, Episode 27) 01:40 – Ash’s clearance diving background and fear of water after trauma 02:45 – Military and Afghanistan service; PTSD and recovery journey 04:00 – Ash joins the conversation, starts with early life and growing up in Adelaide 06:00 – Competitive swimming as a teen; early struggles and successes 07:45 – 2003: Racing against Grant Hackett at Nationals 09:18 – Backstroke vs freestyle debate; Ash’s short course gold medal (with caveats) 10:00 – Natural transition to the Navy from competitive sport 11:01 – Joining as a direct entry diver and diver vs boatswain's mate decision 12:01 – Clearance Diver selection process explained — 10 days of being wet, sandy, and psychologically tested 14:07 – What Ash learned about focus, fatigue, and resilience during selection 15:00 – 2009 shark attack incident: Ash explains what happened to Paul de Gelder 17:34 – Ash’s role in the aftermath: trauma from cleaning the boat, psychological impact 18:29 – Lingering fear of large bodies of water, even lakes 20:00 – Later incident at Jervis Bay: panic before dive leads to difficult team moment 21:12 – Realisation of responsibility and shame around not seeking help 22:30 – Stigma and lack of psychological support during service 23:45 – What clearance divers do: diving, EOD, underwater repair, and land-based ops 25:16 – How Ash ended up doing EOD work in Afghanistan despite being too junior 27:22 – Becoming the most junior sailor to deploy for combat operations in Afghanistan 28:46 – Motivation to deploy: “It’s like a footballer wanting to play a grand final” 29:00 – Getting targeted by an IED during deployment 31:30   About the Bushmaster 34:42   Pressure builds up 39:30   PTSD, cracks, symptoms and care 44:00   ‘More to live for’ – side story 49:10   Medical discharge… and there are no protective factors in the military uniform 51:00   Role identity fusion 54:30   Finning the channel- breaking it down     External Links Navy Clearance Diver Trust Paul de Gelder – Shark Attack Survivor & Advocate S1E27 – Sam Penny swims the English Channel Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email: debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram & Twitter: @Unforgiving60   Music With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

    1h 9m

  4. 10/31/2024

    S5E16 – Jade MacDonald Razvi: Freediving and ‘EH4AR’

    Jade MacDonald Razvi is a prominent Australian free diver and occupational therapist. She holds the second deepest dive in Australian history and recently won a bronze medal at the Free Diving World Cup. On this episode we talk about Jade’s growing up and freediving- how it works and how she trains. As well as EH4AR (‘everything happens for a reason').   00:40       Starts with Ben’s hijack! 04:15       Jade on her lineage and growing up. 07:15       Sign language demonstration for the podcast audience 11:45       Jade’s swimming background- swimming into life! And swim times. And injuries. 19:00       What is an OT? 23:58       What is freediving? 25:20       Mermaids and Merbutlers 30:05       How Jade got into freediving and explaining competitions 39:00       How Jade rains for freediving…. without deep water. 46:30       Professional freedivers- are they a thing? 48:45       Breaking records! 1:01:33    How does Jade get herself through profound discomfort? 1:04:20    Applying a mantra and meditation in her diving 1:10:15    Can you lose the edge? 1:12:15    What is Jade’s limit? 1:14:00    EH4AR… Jade explains 1:18:20    Book recommendations and audiobook 1:20:45    Jade’s Power song and country music 1:23:25    Underwater predators       External Links Jade’s Insta Martin McPhilimey episode is here   Contact Us   www.unforgiving60.com   Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com   Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60     Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify Mitchell Martin - available on Spotify

    1h 33m

  5. 09/09/2024

    S5E15 – Leigh Anderson: The Paramedic Mindset

    We first had the privilege of meeting Leigh Anderson on the 2022 Resilience Retreat and have been stoked to stay in touch from there – particularly so given the recent publication of his book, ‘The Paramedic Mindset’.  In this episode, Leigh talk with us about that book, as well as his 14+ years as a paramedic.  Leigh discusses the ups and downs of the role including not only the amazing lifesaving assistance he has provided on countless occasions, but also those rare moments when his best wasn’t good enough.  Along the way, he’s developed some impressive practical tools for grappling with pressure, trauma and failure, which he shares with us as well.    06:00       Leigh’s backstory – paramedicine via a close brush with professional rugby league! 11:15       Ben reveals his ignorance and asks ‘what exactly is a paramedic?!’ 15:30       The human side of paramedicine 17:20       What DON’T you learn at paramedic school?! 19:20       What technique does Leigh recommend to stay calm and think clearly during high stress situations? 23:20       How partners can assist in high pressure situations 29:00       The (often unspoken) excitement of a really nasty job…and how paramedics can deal with continued exposure to trauma 34:00       An alternate (and brilliant) definition of success 37:00       Dealing with failure – and growth from trauma 40:00       The perils of role/identity fusion within paramedicine 46:00       Leigh’s experience on the 2022 Resilience Retreat (on a related note, sign up now for the 2024 Resilience Retreat – 24-27 Oct 2024 in the Gold Coast hinterland!) 48:15       How does Leigh put trauma behind him? 52:00       What is Leigh’s powersong?!  (Maybe not what you’d expect – check it out!)   External Links Leigh’s website and Insta Buy Leigh’s book or audiobook Monica Lewinsky’s TED talk on shame   Contact Us   www.unforgiving60.com   Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com   Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60     Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

    57 min

  6. 07/25/2024

    S5E14 – Kat Rae: On Art, Soldiering and Creativity Through Loss

    Kat Rae is an artist who works across an incredible variety of media.  Her confronting work, Deathmin, was recently recognised as winner of the 2024 Napier Waller Art Prize and represents the fourth time Kat has been shortlisted for this prestigious award.  In this podcast, Kat talks about her artistic journey, including her first career within the Australian Army during which time she met her husband Andrew.  Tragically, it was Andrew’s death that inspired her prizewinning piece and Kat very bravely talks to this devastating event and how she channelled this grief and frustration into Deathmin.    06:30       Kat’s background and early years – how she got into art….and the Army! 07:15       Some of Kat’s artistic inspiration included the ‘Angry Penguins’ – many of whom had completed military service 07:40       Art and Army – does that mix?!  11:30       Kat’s time at ADFA – the Australian Defence Force Academy 15:00       The Royal Military College Duntroon – not as much fun as ADFA…. 16:00       Into the big world of Army – Kat’s military career, including a stint within the prestigious Australian Federation Guard 23:00       The tragic death of Kat’s husband Andrew 29:00       Kat discusses her Napier Waller prizewinning piece, Deathmin 36:30        So what is the Napier Waller art prize?  And a little about Kat’s previous entries, including… 40:30       Cloud Slide, Coming Home and Reckoning 48:00       How did it feel to win on her fourth submission? 51:00       With all that she’s experienced – positive and negative – how does Kat now feel when she looks at the Australian Army? 1:02:40    What’s next for Kat – including within the art space?   External Links Kat’s website – katrae.net Kat’s Insta - @kat_a_rae Kat’s 2024 prizewinning Napier Waller submission   Contact Us   www.unforgiving60.com   Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com   Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60     Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

    1h 8m

  7. 07/18/2024

    S5E13 – Bill Lennan: Making us 40% Better

    This week we host Bill Lennan who will teach us how to be 40% better! He was a kit who was introverted and had social anxiety.. so Bill built his own toolkit.   As Bills tells his story...   Friend: How'd you get that role? Me: Talking with strangers. Friend: What? Talking with strangers is a gateway skill. It enables you to talk with team-mates, stakeholders, leaders, execs, and clients. It also makes interviews way easier.   Let’s get into it     04:50       Bill growing up… and Tim needs to grow up (according to Ben) 06:15       Bill working on cars- Ferraris and more…. 07:30       More beautiful car ever made?                  Ferraris or Lamborghini? 10:15       Life after playing with supercars 12:00       Introversion and anxiety-  Bill’s toolkit 13:45       Everything is a system…. And so understand the mental models 15:00       Dialectical behavioural therapy 20:40       Getting use to discomfort- that is about growth! 22:50       Critical thinking skills- is this unsafe or not. How do you look at scary things? 24:30       The value in physical risk 29:20       Talking AI and software. The future? 33:11       The phones not the problem. It’s the absence of alternatives that is the problem! 34:20       Risks and growing up 36:00       Farming and how rural setting change our focus 38:15       Leaders- system, reps and recipes- ‘latticework’s’. The big models for leadership development 44:15       What is kaizen and why does it work? 46:30       Talking people and performance 52:20       Making tough and unpopular decisions- how to do it if we are overly familiar? 55:50       What’s in Bill’s library 1:00:00    Bill’s Powersong!                          External Links   Bill on Linked In   Contact Us   www.unforgiving60.com   Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com   Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60     Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

    1h 7m

  8. 06/20/2024

    S5E12 - Martin McPhilimey: Take a Deep Breath

    Tim and Ben love breathing.  Not just for the fact that it keeps them alive (although that is undoubtedly a strong benefit…) but also for the opportunity it gives to tap into the body’s autonomic nervous system and impact its emotional state.  In this episode, they speak with Martin McPhilimey – someone who was researching the impacts of breath long before it was cool - and find out how the differences between some popular breathing techniques and when these are best applied.   07:30       Breath as the ‘core of the dynamic interplay’ between mind and body 08:30       Martin’s background – how he got interested in stress, breathing and sleep 10:30       The link between breathing and sleep 15:00        The importance of being a scientist and a practitioner 16:00       How Martin starts with a new client 21:00       The impacts and requirements for oxygen and carbon dioxide within the body 22:00       What is air hunger, why is it so powerful and what triggers it? 28:50       The benefits of increasing our air hunger tolerance 33:20       Using wearables to monitor and improve your breathing 36:15       Martin’s take on the utility and applicability of some of the more popular breathing techniques, including: 37:00       Box (or combat!) breathing… 38:30       …4-7-8 breathing… 40:25       ..and could 4-7-20 be better than 4-7-8?!... 41:00       …the physiological sigh, and… 43:45       Wim Hof or tummo style hyperventilation techniques 47:30       What Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu can teach you about breath 51:00       Tips and trick for increasing our tolerance to air hunger? 54:30       Martin’s business – Performance Through Health 59:15       The Performance Through Health breath science certification 1:01:30    How to incorporate breathing techniques for children 1:04:00    What does Martin do for Martin?  (Including his jiu-jitsu practice with Ground Control Jiu-Jitsu) External Links Performance Through Health Martin’s Insta – some great stuff on here, give him a follow Martin’s LinkedIn   Contact Us   www.unforgiving60.com   Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com   Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60     Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

    1h 10m
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About

Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.

Information

  • Creator
    Ben Pronk, DSC & Tim Curtis
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    99
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2019 All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    The Unforgiving60

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