A first for us: this episode was recorded live, in the room, in front of the church — just after Dr Amy Orr-Ewing had finished speaking to us on forgiveness. It turns into one of the most wide-ranging conversations we’ve had on the podcast. You can catch up on Amy’s ‘Forgiveness’ talk here: https://youtu.be/OK2P7MBYzpA?si=Fl6veB1mKgTYsK6z We start with the question Amy’s Gen Z godson sent her after the tragedy at a Christian festival: how could something like this happen at a Christian event? Christian faith, she says, is the opposite of karma. It never draws the conclusion that a disaster was the sufferer’s fault, or that God doesn’t love them. It sets suffering inside a world where love required freedom, where we all live downstream of thousands of decisions — and where the last word is a God who wipes every tear away. Then to Westminster Hall in 2023, weeks after the Coronation, where Amy addressed the National Parliamentary Prayer Breakfast — with her father, who came to this country as a refugee, sitting in the room. She chose to talk about forgiveness, and she explains why she thinks it is Christianity’s most useful gift to a culture soaked in outrage and grievance. Crucially, forgiveness that doesn’t minimise harm. The church’s great mistake, she argues, has been letting forgiveness be weaponised against victims — telling the abused to forgive and quietly enabling the abuser. The cross says the opposite: the harm mattered enough to cost the death of the Son of God. Her advice for the rest of us — who will never get the platform of Westminster Hall, only the lift at work and the neighbour over the fence — is disarmingly practical. The middle of the episode is pure adventure. In 1996, aged 19, Amy and two Oxford friends got into Taliban-held Afghanistan on visas obtained through a student newspaper. Getting out was harder — a missed train that only ran twice a week, landmines on both sides of a kilometre of no man’s land, a sandstorm, and a failed bribe, but then something miraculous. Amy also opens up about recovering from trauma, and losing the ability to pray and what she did when she felt like a fraud. Finally, with St Michael’s in its own season of rebuilding, Amy has a word on opposition: expect it, because it’s normal and not evidence that God has left the building. And they speak about rumours of the Quiet Revival. Please note: this episode includes discussion of a recent tragedy, of trauma and therapy, and of abuse in religious settings. If you need support, go to: https://findahelpline.com This episode is for: • anyone wrestling with why God allows suffering — or being asked that question by someone they love • anyone who has been told to forgive in a way that felt like being silenced • Christians who want to speak about faith at work or with neighbours without going into broadcast mode • leaders in a dry season, or anyone who has lost the ability to pray and feels like a fraud for it • churches facing opposition mid-rebuild, and wondering how to be ready for people newly curious about faith Mentioned in this episode: Amy Orr-Ewing’s book Forgiveness: Reclaiming Its Power in a Culture of Outrage and Fear; Amy’s Substack piece: https://amyorrewing.substack.com/p/when-disaster-strikes You can also follow Amy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amyorrewing Make sure to subscribe to this channel too, and we’d love to see you on a Sunday soon. https://stmichaelschestersquare.org/ https://www.instagram.com/stmichaelschestersquare/ https://www.tiktok.com/@st.michaels.chester.sqr
