What Do You Mean By That?

Sara and Misasha

Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode. If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?

  1. 20: Where the Girls Were, with Kate Schatz

    FEB 24

    20: Where the Girls Were, with Kate Schatz

    Today's conversation is one about history — but also about now. About 1968 and about 2026. About who gets control over their own body — and who never truly has. About the quiet, complicated ways parents try to protect their children, and the unintended harm that can hide inside "what's best." About the tension between safety and freedom. Between acceptance and autonomy. Between love and control. We're so excited to talk with a podcast favorite, Kate Schatz, about her new book Where The Girls Were, in today's episode, and we REALLY dive into everything we mentioned above, and more. If this resonates, please share - we think this is a book and conversation that everyone should be having and reading right now.  What to listen for:  How personal this topic is for Kate, and the return to her creative storytelling roots That each parent wants what's best for their children – and the ways that show up differently for each set of circumstances Zooming into a tiny nugget of a topic (birds) and out to a tremendously wide topic (abortion rights) What to do differently:  Grab this novel and discuss it with your book club Share this idea with your elders to see if they have any stories from their generation Talk with the younger generation about pregnancy, how the body works, different experiences people have accessing healthcare – anything to normalize these conversations so they don't feel as alone as the main character does in the novel!  About the author:  Kate Schatz is a feminist author from California. She's the New York Times bestselling author of Do the Work: An Anti-Racist Activity Book, with W. Kamau Bell, and the "Rad Women" book series (including Rad American Women A-Z, Rad Women Worldwide, and Rad American History A-Z). Her book of fiction, Rid of Me: A Story, was published as part of the cult-favorite 33 1/3 series.

    31 min
  2. 19: The Conversations We All Need to Have About Black History Month

    FEB 10

    19: The Conversations We All Need to Have About Black History Month

    Here we are, February, which is also Black History Month (and for the record: Black history is American history. We'll say this all day, every day, until everyone gets on this train.). It's not lost on us that this is the shortest month of the year. It's also not lost on us that, currently, our administration is actively erasing or whitewashing our nation's history in real time, including this month itself, and we are being gaslit in the process. So, this Black History Month, we encourage everyone out there to take a moment to learn our real history, expand the narrative of Black excellence in our country, and actively question the racist tropes and more subtle - yet still overt and noticeable - rewriting of history that is taking place. Many things can be true at once, including fear and the need to not stay silent. Listen in to hear more about what we think about that and simple ways to get these conversations started. What to listen for:  The blatantly racist actions our current administration is taking How the administration is pushing for the whitewashing of history – for example, by requiring the murderer of Medgar Evers, a civil rights legend who was gunned down on his own driveway, to no longer be called racist.  Though murderer Beckwith was "a member of the racist and segregationist White Citizens' Council" and Ku Klux Klan. What can we each do this Black History Month to hold the line?  Focus on your community, sharing Black excellence, expanding your book club discussions, and asking your local schools what they're doing to teach Black history (which is American history, all year long).

    25 min
  3. 18: What to do about (Secret Pol)ICE In Our Communities

    JAN 27

    18: What to do about (Secret Pol)ICE In Our Communities

    *** We recorded this episode before ICE murdered Alex Pretti, a 37 year old ICU nurse who was attempting to help a woman up who had been pushed to the ground by ICE agents in Minneapolis on the morning of January 24, 2026. Despite the administration's attempt to cover up and justify this murder by claiming that Pretti was holding a gun (he wasn't, it was a phone), the facts are clear: ICE is murdering American citizens. And then, they are lying about it.   This is not the America we want for ourselves or for our children. We stand with Minnesota, Maine, and everywhere else that is fighting back. Part of our fight is this episode, and the resources we share in it. Please share widely. We are strongest when we stand together. NO ICE.   We leave you with the words of Alex Pretti's parents, who, in the face of the callous killing of their son, left us with who he truly is, in their statement that they released on January 24:   "We are heartbroken but also very angry. Alex was a kindhearted soul who cared deeply for his family and friends and also the American veterans whom he cared for as an ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA hospital. Alex wanted to make a difference in this world. Unfortunately, he will not be with us to see his impact.   I do not throw around the 'hero' term lightly. However, his last thought and act was to protect a woman. The sickening lies told about our son by the administration are reprehensible and disgusting. Alex is clearly not holding a gun when attacked by Trump's murdering and cowardly ICE thugs. He had his phone in his right hand and his empty left hand is raised above his head while trying to protect the woman ICE just pushed down, all while being pepper sprayed.   Please get the truth out about our son. He was a good man."   Horns honking, people chanting ICE OUT as they crowd busy intersections. Horns honking, ICE agents smashing car windows, and grabbing people from their cars. Which scenario sounds like the America you know?  Which one, more importantly, sounds like the America you want to be fighting for? Regardless of what you answered, this episode is a must-listen. We unpack the history of ICE (it's not a long one, despite what might be suggested by our current administration), why ICE acting as the secret police for the administration is not only incredibly illegal today but also reminds us of another secret police which rhymes with Schmestapo, and what we can all DO about ICE in our communities, especially when it seems like we have no agency.  What to listen for: ICE's history in America is fairly new – it was formed after the attacks on 9/11/2001. The purpose and guideposts around ICE have shifted with administrations. Most recently? This federalized force of vigilantes, loosely recruited with even looser standards, has been weaponized and deputized to create mass terror, egged on by a fascist leader with an outsized ego and zero morality. The historic precedent:  Brownshirts → SA. Like the Proud Boys but 1930s style, and this is where we're at now. But Himmler wanted educated men to be this force, which developed into the SS. Let's not find out what happens in America if and when we get to the SS stage. What can you do? We have tons of ideas for using your body, wallet, writing/petitioning power, and joy. Listen in for our suggestions. Easy links to click to take action:  Tell Congress to listen to "wine moms" and stop ICE Tell Congress to stop funding ICE & CBP and demand accountability Urge senators to pass the DREAM Act  Use 5calls to make your voice as a US constituent heard   Names of companies supporting ICE, courtesy of The Nation, that you can boycott Resources:  KNOW YOUR RIGHTS if ICE shows up (we've printed this out to make sure our teens see it too)  What to know if you're thinking about planning an event  Example of how it can be done: A local Colorado grassroots organization

    46 min
  4. 17: New Year of Actions + Why Getting Names Right Matters

    JAN 13

    17: New Year of Actions + Why Getting Names Right Matters

    If you're a repeat listener to the podcast over the last almost SEVEN years, you know that sometimes, we've done seasonal arcs in which we focus on a topic or theme for the season. (And if you've just found us - hello!)  This year, we're doing something different: a year-long focus on action, which is the third pillar of our listen, learn, and act framework. It moves us from "what can I do?" to "here's how I show up."  We'll take the things that you've been curious about (but didn't want to ask about, maybe), break down the history behind them, and walk you through why these things matter.  And then we'll throw in tips on how, now that you know about them, you can make small changes in your own lives to make a huge impact in your communities and in the fight for all of us.  We're in it to win it this year. Hope you'll come along for the journey. Welcome to 2026, and a whole new year of What Do You Mean By That? - the podcast about asking better questions, having deeper conversations, and taking action that helps all of us. Make sure you're signed up for our newsletter to catch all the details in between. What to listen for:  What does a name actually carry beyond just identification? The cocktail party effect of perking our brains up, increasing engagement, attention, and memory. Plus, the big answer: belonging. Even to a whole country. Why does mispronouncing or misspelling someone's name — even unintentionally — have an impact? Just ask Miasma… I mean Misasha. AKA "Sasha" in coffee shops. Why do people so often hesitate to ask for help with names? Perfectionism, fear of awkwardness (but isn't it also awkward to get it wrong?!), and the effort it takes to actually listen to and learn someone's name.  What happens when people feel pressured to shorten, change, or "Americanize" their names? Sure, study after study proves we are biased against certain names. But is that enough reason to ask folks to erase their heritage, their parent's pride, their sense of identity - so you can call them "Alice"?  Getting names right is a simple but powerful practice of belonging. Make the effort. For more like this, listen to our conversation with Mita Mallick (another "get my name right" advocate) on colorism. And this conversation with Naomi Raquel Enright on specific phrasing around identity (i.e., presumed to be White, instead of White-presenting or passing for White)   Finally, to read more, check out our book Dear White Women: Let's Get (Un)comfortable Talking About Racism.

    26 min
  5. 15: Raising Boys in an Age of Backlash: Soraya Chemaly on Power, Gender, and What Comes Next

    12/16/2025

    15: Raising Boys in an Age of Backlash: Soraya Chemaly on Power, Gender, and What Comes Next

    In today's episode, we sit down with feminist author and activist Soraya Chemaly for a conversation that feels both urgent and deeply grounding. Soraya's new book, All We Want Is Everything, traces how male supremacy shows up everywhere—our politics, our homes, our faith spaces, our workplaces, and especially in the lives of our children. Together, we talk about the rising backlash against women and queer people, the ways boys are being pulled into misogynistic online spaces, and why so many young men are drifting toward anti-democratic movements without even realizing they're being manipulated. Soraya offers a powerful reframe for what we're seeing culturally, along with real, everyday actions that families can take to disrupt old gender scripts—on sports fields, around dinner tables, and in the tiny moments we rarely name but constantly repeat. This conversation is challenging, hopeful, beautifully honest, and filled with the clarity that can actually shift how we move through the world. Let's dive in. What to listen for:  What inspired Soraya to write this book, now, beyond the backlash from the presidential elections. The one cultural shift she'd want to see in the next decade: Young men understanding that the anti feminism they are largely accepting and in many cases promulgating is a manipulation. "If boys could understand that they, too, are part of progressive movements in a way that allows them to accept women as equals, and that means also equal competitors, for example, in school, then that's what I would want to see. "  Specific actions that hold the line for feminists and womanists, and the roles we have to play What practices we all use to sustain ourselves in challenging times About our guest:  Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning author and activist. As a cultural critic, she writes and speaks frequently about gender norms, social justice, free speech, sexualized violence, politics, and technology. The former Executive Director of The Representation Project and Director and co-founder of the Women's Media Center Speech Project, she has long been committed to expanding women's civic and political participation. Soraya's most recently released book, All We Want is Everything: How We Dismantle Male Supremacy, has been called "a potent rallying cry for a beleaguered feminist movement."  In it, she challenges dearly held beliefs about gender and equality today, drawing clear lines between the dynamics of intimate inequality and global anti-feminist, anti-democratic backlash and machofascism. Her first book, Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, was recognized as a Best Book of 2018 by the Washington Post, Fast Company, Psychology Today, and NPR, and has been translated into multiple languages. She is a contributor to several anthologies, most recently Free Speech in the Digital Age and Believe Me: How Trusting Women Can Change The World.  Soraya is also a co-producer of a WMC #NameItChangeIt PSA highlighting the effects of online harassment on women in politics in America.  Her work is widely featured in the media, documentaries, books, and academic research.  As an activist, Ms. Chemaly also spearheaded several successful global campaigns challenging corporations to address online hate and harassment, restrictive content moderation and censorship, and institutional biases that undermine equity and negatively affect free speech. Before 2010, Ms. Chemaly spent more than fifteen years as an executive and consultant in the media and data technology industries.

    45 min
  6. 14:  Becoming Smarter News Consumers, with the founder of Ad Fontes Media, Home of the Media Bias Chart

    12/02/2025

    14: Becoming Smarter News Consumers, with the founder of Ad Fontes Media, Home of the Media Bias Chart

    In an age where AI can fake a video, social platforms reward outrage, and even the word 'misinformation' means different things to different people, one question rises above the noise: how do we know what to trust?   Today, we're joined by Vanessa Otero, the lawyer-turned-media-analyst behind Ad Fontes Media and its well-known Media Bias Chart, to explore exactly that. Vanessa takes us inside the mechanics of bias, the structures driving extreme content, and the habits that actually make us smarter news consumers.  This episode is your practical guide to staying informed without getting manipulated.   What to listen for: What the Ad Fontes media bias chart looks like, and how to use it: their mission is to rate all the news to positively transform society. Knowing that there's a high correlation between high bias and low reliability Advice for media consumers who are trying to recognize bias without all the tools – including considering disbelieving everything until you can verify it through multiple sources New ways to discuss the media landscape. Example: Instead of saying "fake news" or "misinformation," which are politically charged and open to interpretation, consider using more accurate language like "misleading information" or "inaccurate information."  About our guest: Vanessa Otero is the Founder and CEO of Ad Fontes Media, the company that rates news for bias and reliability. Ms. Otero founded Ad Fontes in 2018 with a mission to rate all the news to positively transform society. She created the original Media Bias Chart in 2016, which was the seed idea for creating the company. She is passionate about bringing people together and overcoming the challenges of political polarization in our present environment. Prior to starting Ad Fontes, she practiced as a patent attorney specializing in software. Vanessa holds a B.A. in English from UCLA and a J.D. from the University of Denver.

    40 min
  7. 13: How to Have Difficult Conversations, featuring Dr. Bill Doherty, Co-founder of Braver Angels

    11/18/2025

    13: How to Have Difficult Conversations, featuring Dr. Bill Doherty, Co-founder of Braver Angels

    Are you a little worried about holiday conversations with your relatives and family members in this increasingly polarized political climate? You're not alone. Welcome to something new – a live discussion with our guest, Dr. Bill Doherty, co-founder of Braver Angels and a deeply experienced relationship therapist, coaching one of us (Sara) through how to have difficult conversations, not in theory, but with an actual extended family member who has differing political viewpoints from me. Nowadays, politics is personal. So, as much as it's tempting to bury our heads in the sand, these conversations are skills of democratic living - we can't abandon them at a family level and expect our political leaders to do it for us.  You won't want to miss the discomfort, the realizations, the tips and perspectives that can help us ALL have better, more meaningful connections and conversations with the people we love in our lives – even and especially if we don't always agree with them.  What to listen for:  What are the two types of conversation levels, and what you should do when one or both are challenged by something like a provocative question Why it's important to have difficult conversations like these 1-1, versus in a group How we approach these conversations with a "grownup" mindset, despite what we're seeing these days on a more global scale About our guest:   Bill Doherty is a Professor Emeritus in the Department of Family Social Science at the University of Minnesota. As a therapist, he focuses on couples on the brink of divorce and on political stress in relationships. He has authored 14 books for professionals and the public. Following the 2016 U.S. Presidential election, he co-founded Braver Angels, a citizen initiative bringing conservatives and liberals together to counteract political polarization and restore the fraying social fabric in American society. Bill is the chief designer of the Braver Angels workshops and has conducted workshops all over the country, including for state legislatures and Members of Congress. Braver Angels now has volunteers working in all 50 states. Among his awards is the Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Family Therapy Academy. Related episodes:  How to have uncomfortable conversations, our primer for holiday seasons How to have compassionate dialogue, with Dr Nancy Dome

    46 min
4.7
out of 5
140 Ratings

About

Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode. If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?

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