Mik + One: The Official Project to Product Podcast by Dr. Mik Kersten

Dr. Mik Kersten: Author of Project to Product and Founder and CEO of Tasktop
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Since publishing best-selling book, Project to Product, technology business leader, Dr. Mik Kersten, has introduced transformative frameworks and ideas for delivering software at scale. He has given numerous standing room only keynotes and presentations worldwide and is an internationally recognized thought-leader. In this podcast, Mik + One, nothing is off the record as Mik sits down with industry leading guests and delves into how they deliver value and drive digital transformations in their organizations. Tune in for a new episode every two weeks! Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode. Follow Mik on X: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.projecttoproduct.org

  1. 07/02/2025

    Episode 62: Gene Kim on the Evolution of Product Operating Models in the World of AI

    In this episode, Mik Kersten is joined by Gene Kim—author of The Phoenix Project and The Unicorn Project—for a deep dive into Vibe Coding, his upcoming book co-authored with Steve Yegge. Gene shares how learning to “vibe code”—where the developer supervises AI-generated code instead of writing it line by line—transformed his own productivity and reignited his passion for coding. The conversation unpacks how AI-assisted development drives an unprecedented 10x increase in productivity—and why most organizations are structurally unprepared to take advantage of it. Mik and Gene explore the architectural shifts, leadership models, and organizational rewiring needed to thrive in this new era. From FAFO (Faster, Ambitious, Fun, Optionality) to the fall of monolithic systems, they cover it all. Plus, they draw parallels between AI and past industrial revolutions, touch on real-world stories from Booking.com, Adidas, and the UK government, and preview Mik’s forthcoming book, Output to Outcomes, a playbook for organizations navigating the shift from outputs to measurable, scalable results in the age of AI. Key discussions include: How Mik’s upcoming book Output to Outcomes builds on Project to Product to guide organizations through this next transformation Why traditional team structures and monolithic architectures are holding back the potential of AI The FAFO model (Faster, Ambitious, Fun, Optionality) and what it means for developer experience Lessons from Amazon, Booking.com, and the UK government on adopting GenAI at scale Why modularity and outcome-based teams are essential for thriving in the age of AI Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne For more information about Gene Kim and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: Show Notes and Transcript.pdf

    1h 4m

  2. 01/07/2025

    Episode 61: Patrick Debois, The “Godfather of DevOps,” on AI, Automation, and Innovation

    Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Patrick Dubois. Often referred to as the Godfather of DevOps, Patrick shares his insights on the evolving landscape of DevOps and its intersection with generative AI. He discusses how the principles of DevOps are being applied to the rapidly changing world of AI, emphasizing the importance of testing, automation, and team structures in this new era. Patrick reflects on the lessons learned from past technology transformations and how they can inform current practices in integrating AI into business processes.   Listen as Mik and Patrick as they outline actionable strategies for organizations to move from experimentation to the successful productization of AI solutions, underscoring the importance of collaboration and feedback in driving innovation.     Key discussions include:  The importance of adaptability in applying DevOps principles to generative AI.  Understanding the integration of generative AI requires a shift in team structures and roles.  Feedback and iterative testing are crucial for successfully deploying generative AI applications.  DevOps practitioners have an innate advantage in managing the unpredictable nature of AI systems.  Organizations must balance between innovative AI solutions and maintaining robust governance frameworks.  The journey of integrating AI technologies can be accelerated by leveraging existing data architectures.    Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review.    Follow Mik on X:  @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne    Additional Resources:  YouTube Reference:  - "Every AI Engineer Deserves an AI Platform" https://youtu.be/p1AITmS6JrA?si=sEo2oArZqp1PRaHo - "Generative AI is Changing Our Jobs as Software and DevOps Engineers" https://youtu.be/qMLEI4ZaktE?si=N6aonwLH3bsDHtFp  More Resources: Portfolio SAFe  MarTech  Scrum Studio  Greenfield project  Skunkworks  Bimodal IT  Agile Release Train  Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts

    57 min

  3. 10/15/2024

    Episode 60: Robin Yeman and Dr. Suzette Johnson on Implementing Lean, Agile, and DevOps Principles

    Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One are industry luminaries Dr. Suzette Johnson and Robin Yeman. Suzette and Robin explore the integration of lean, agile, and digital methodologies into the increasingly complex realm of cyber-physical systems. They share compelling insights from their recently published book, "Industrial DevOps: Build Better Systems Faster." Suzette and Robin also stress the importance of integrating agile practices beyond software into hardware and the broader cyber-physical ecosystem, highlighting real-world examples and debunking common misconceptions.    Listen as Mik, Suzette, and Robin reflect on the evolution from small team agility to expansive, multifunctional team cohesion.     Key discussions include: Agile Beyond Software: Agile isn't limited to software; it can and should extend into hardware and cyber-physical systems for holistic efficiency. Importance of a Multi-Horizon Planning: Implementing multiple horizons of planning bridges the gap between short-term agility and long-term strategy. Role of Leadership: Leadership at all levels—especially in setting objectives and prioritizing work—plays a crucial role in the successful adoption of agile and DevOps practices. Data-Driven Decisions: Emphasizing the importance of using empirical data to constantly refine plans and reduce uncertainties. Continuous Learning and Growth Mindset: A perpetual state of learning and adaptation is necessary to keep pace with technological advancement and project complexities.   Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe MarTech Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community

    52 min

  4. 09/16/2024

    Episode 59: McKinsey + Company’s Martin Harrysson & Megha Sinha on Maximizing Business Value Through Product Operating Models

    Martin Harryson & Megha Sinha  Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One are Martin Harryson & Megha Sinha from McKinsey & Company. With a focus on their research which quantified the benefits of shifting from project to product models, Martin and Megha share insights on how these transformations can significantly enhance profitability and efficiency. As technology advances, the integration and upskilling necessary for these models are more critical than ever.   Listen as Mik, Martin, and Megha explore the importance of cross-functional collaboration, the challenges in aligning incentives, and the necessity of robust organizational design.      Key discussions include: The product operating model can significantly enhance return to shareholders and operating margins, with the top quartile companies outperforming others by substantial margins. Crucial elements like psychological safety and cross-functional collaboration are essential for the success of product operating models. Upskilling and capability building are vital, particularly in roles like product management, to ensure the effectiveness of these models. Generative AI can accelerate product development and streamline processes, but its success depends on addressing foundational constraints in the product operating model. Implementing these models requires a combination of high-level vision and detailed, specific actions demonstrated through smaller, focused initiatives.   Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe MarTech Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/martin-harrysson-and-megha-sinha/

    58 min

  5. 08/06/2024

    Episode 58: Steve Mayner on Implementing Pragmatic AI in the Enterprise

    Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Dr. Steve Mayner, a revered expert and coach in digital leadership, organizational change strategy, continuous learning culture, agile contracts, and SAFe practices within government contexts. Mik and Dr. Steve Mayner discuss the nuances of transformative leadership and its pivotal role in driving successful business agility and digital transformation efforts. They also examine the evolution and future of Lean-Agile practices tailored for the fast-evolving AI landscape.   Listen as Mik and Dr. Steve Mayner explore the intersections of digital leadership, Agile transformation, and the emerging impacts of artificial intelligence in the digital age. Key discussions include: Transformational leadership is essential for fostering an innovative and adaptive organizational culture. AI's role in enhancing productivity and operational efficiency requires leaders to embrace these technologies and lead their integration effectively within their organizations. Successful digital transformation hinges not only on adopting new technologies but significantly on leadership that creates an environment of trust and drives organizational change. Continuous learning and leveraging AI tools can exponentially boost a leader's effectiveness, enabling informed decision-making in real-time. Adaptive leadership, coupled with a strong foundation in business acumen, is crucial for navigating the complexities of leading organizations in the digital age. Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe MarTech Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community For more information about Steve Mayner and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/steve-mayner/

    1h 9m

  6. 07/02/2024

    Episode 57: Gene Kim on "Wiring the Winning Organization," Unlocking High-Performance Organizations

    Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is technology luminary Gene Kim. Gene Kim is an esteemed author and technology thought leader with over two decades of experience studying high-performing technology organizations. Mik and Gene look into the groundbreaking insights from Gene's latest book, "Wiring the Winning Organization," co-authored with Dr. Steven Spear. They navigate the pressing need for new organizational frameworks that bridge the gaps left by traditional models like Lean, Agile, and DevOps. They also analyze the core mechanisms vital to achieving optimal organizational performance, such as simplification and amplification.   Listen as Mik and Gene explore the concept of ‘slowification’—the strategic slowdown for long-term gains—and provide practical advice on how technology leaders can implement these changes.  Key discussions include: Understanding the critical layers involved in organizational performance: objects (code, patients), tools (IDEs, MRI machines), and social circuitry (team communication). Learn about the essential mechanisms—slowification, simplification, and amplification—that form the backbone of successful organizational design. Explore the impact of strong, clear feedback loops in optimizing organizational efficiency and uncovering hidden inefficiencies. Discover how partitioning complex systems into modular components can facilitate faster development and deployment cycles. Learn how Gene's book provides a framework that is understandable and actionable at all organizational levels, focusing on practical implementation.   Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe The Unicorn Project by Gene Kim Wiring the Winning Organization by Gene Kim and Steven J. Spear MarTech Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community For more information about Gene Kim and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/gene-kim-ep-57/

    56 min
  7. Episode 56: GitHub’s Scott Densmore on the Copilot Revolution, Coding at the Speed of Thought

    12/14/2023

    Episode 56: GitHub’s Scott Densmore on the Copilot Revolution, Coding at the Speed of Thought

    Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Scott Densmore, VP of Engineering at GitHub, to discuss the future of connected work and the impact of GitHub Copilot on developer productivity. GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, allowing them to write code faster and more efficiently. Scott shares the history of GitHub Copilot and how it has evolved to become a game-changer in the world of software development. He also talks about developer flow and happiness and explains how Copilot enhances these aspects by reducing toil and increasing productivity.  Listen as Mik and Scott discuss the potential for customization and extensibility in Copilot, allowing developers to build their agents and their skills to further enhance their workflows.   Key discussions include:  GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, increasing productivity and reducing toil.  Copilot has been in development for several years, with a focus on fine-tuning the models and prompts to provide accurate and helpful suggestions across multiple programming languages.  Studies have shown that developers using Copilot can complete tasks in significantly less time, leading to increased productivity and happiness.  Customization is a key feature of Copilot, allowing developers to build models on top of their own code and improve the accuracy of suggestions.  The introduction of chat functionality in Copilot allows developers to ask questions, get explanations of code, and even generate tests or refactorings.  GitHub is working on an extensibility platform for Copilot to enhance their workflows and bring in expertise from various tools and services.  Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review.  Follow Mik on X:  @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne  Additional Resources:  Portfolio SAFe  Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2  MarTech  Dave West - podcast episode  Scrum Studio  Greenfield project  Skunkworks  Bimodal IT  Agile Release Train  Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts  Join the Flow Framework Community

    52 min
  8. Episode 55: Professor Mohan Sawhney: Rethinking Product Management with AI

    10/19/2023

    Episode 55: Professor Mohan Sawhney: Rethinking Product Management with AI

    Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Professor Mohan Sawhney, Associate Dean of Digital Innovation and a Clinical Professor of Marketing at Northwestern University. ​ Sawhney discusses the evolution and importance of product management as a discipline. He emphasizes the need for formal training and frameworks in product management and highlights the role of product managers as mini CEOs and customer advocates. Sawhney also explores the challenges and opportunities in implementing product management in different industries, including technology companies, B2B industrial companies, and service-based organizations.  Listen as Mik and Sawhney explore the impact of generative AI on product management, and highlight its potential to enhance day-to-day tasks and improve efficiency and effectiveness Key discussions include: Understanding customer problems and exceeding customer needs The product manager’s crucial role as orchestrator, mini CEO, and customer advocate  The discipline of product management  The potential for growth and adoption in various industries Executive sponsorship and implementing organizational structure  Expansion of product management beyond tech companies to B2B and services industries Rethinking structure, incentives, and process Exploring how to implement product management in organizations How Generative AI can improve persona development, wireframing, and roadmap optimization AI Product management and how it is redefining efficiency for the future Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community

    52 min
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Since publishing best-selling book, Project to Product, technology business leader, Dr. Mik Kersten, has introduced transformative frameworks and ideas for delivering software at scale. He has given numerous standing room only keynotes and presentations worldwide and is an internationally recognized thought-leader. In this podcast, Mik + One, nothing is off the record as Mik sits down with industry leading guests and delves into how they deliver value and drive digital transformations in their organizations. Tune in for a new episode every two weeks! Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode. Follow Mik on X: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.projecttoproduct.org

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