MinistryWatch Podcast

Warren Smith and Natasha Smith

Transparency and accountability are vital to the renewal of the evangelical church in America. Hosts Warren Smith and Natasha Smith highlight the top stories of the week from the unique MinistryWatch perspective and give you a peek behind the curtain to show why and how we do the investigations we do.

  1. 3h ago

    Ep. 613: The Revival Myth Persists, NPR Blunder, Texas Schools Bible Readings, iPhone Degrees

    Christina Hello, everyone, I’m Christina Darnell, the managing editor of MinistryWatch. Welcome to the MinistryWatch podcast. In today’s extra episode, I talk with Warren Smith about some news items that are slightly (even significantly) outside of our normal charity and philanthropy “beat.” So, Warren, what’s up first?  Warren William Bennett famously said, “The plural of anecdotes is not data.” Journalists who write about religion often forget that reality. Christina The latest example came from Carson Daly of the Today Show. He wants us to believe that young people are packing Catholic Churches, and they are leading a Catholic resurgence in this country. But you’re not buying it. Warren I’m not. The data tell a different story. I turned to the 2023–24 Pew Research Center Religious Landscape Study, based on nearly 37,000 randomly selected American adults, for a reality check. Among its findings: About 19 percent of U.S. adults identify as Catholic, unchanged since 2014 — but well below historical levels. Even more telling: 43 percent of Americans raised Catholic no longer identify as Catholic. Only 1.5 percent of American adults have become Catholic after being raised in another religion or with no religion. Catholics have experienced the largest net losses of any major Christian tradition through religious switching. Christina What about young people? That seemed to be the focus of the Carson Daly piece. Warren It was, but even among young people, the data don’t support that conclusion. Among Americans ages 18–24, 12 percent have left Catholicism, while only 1 percent have converted into it. Pew concluded there is “no clear evidence” of a nationwide religious revival among young adults. Christina Why has this revival narrative been so persistent. We’ve been seeing it in the Protestant church as well. Warren Journalists want to find unusual stories. The slow secularization of religion over the past 50 years is not unusual. It’s been told, and journalists are looking for a new story. As the old saying, “Dog bites man” is not a story. “Man bites dog” is a story. As for the Catholic resurgence story? Well, to torture the metaphor: “That dog won’t hunt.” Carson Daly might be able to find a parish whose young adult Mass grows from 50 to 400 people, but that does not make up for the thousands of parishes experiencing gradual (and sometimes significant) decline. Christina Years ago, David Letterman had a routine that he called “Stupid Pet Tricks.” The first story we did, plus the next one, might qualify this episode of the podcast for its own “Stupid Media Tricks” segment. Warren You’re right. This week saw another significant media story that caused me to wonder. In this case, veteran National Public Radio Supreme Court reporter Nina Totenberg wrote a story that Justice Samuel Alito had retired. Christina And, to be clear, Justice Alito has not retired. Warren That’s right. But the story that he had retired made it through NPR’s editing process and onto the website before someone discovered the mistake. And, of course, if it makes it to one website, the algorithms soon have it everywhere. Christina About an hour after publication, NPR retracted the story, issued a correction, and apologized. But the damage had been done. Warren To be fair, the damage was not severe – except, perhaps, to the credibility of NPR. But it does provide a lesson in how modern media work. Charlie Warzel, writing for The Atlantic, does a fascinating post-mortem on the episode, saying the error highlights several habits of modern journalism that are pathological. Among them: “That a breakneck news cycle is forcing even the best reporters and editors to move too fast, that modern beat reporting itself has become too consumed with being first to report stories.” Warzel’s story is a smart look at how the journalistic sausage is made. I recommend it. You can find a link in today’s show notes. Christina Our next story is also a media story, of sorts. Warren I had not thought of it that way, but I think you’re right. Our friend Joseph Slife forwarded me a story that Michigan’s Cornerstone University was offering a degree that could be completed “100%” on a smartphone. Christina Warren, did you check the date on that story. Are you sure it’s not an April Fools Day prank? Warren I did check, because that was my first thought. Alas, it is not. According to The College Fix, “Cornerstone University, located in Grand Rapids, is offering an associate degree and bachelor’s degree in strategic business management along with a master’s in organizational leadership through its new program. Students pay a fixed rate of $2,400 per four-month term or $3,750 for graduate level work. The intended audience is working adults.” Christina That’s pretty cheap, and – as a working adult – I couldn’t imagine trying to get to a nearby college a couple of nights a week for classes. Warren I get that. 100  percent. I am not a Luddite. I use my iPhone for a lot of things – including learning. YouTube videos have helped me learn new licks on the guitar, have helped me repair my toilet, and have helped me gain new insights into the human condition. Christina But learning via iPhone is a different experience than face-to-face, in classroom learning. Warren That’s exactly right. Especially from a wise and well-qualified teacher, in a community with other learners who are grappling with the same ideas — both in class, but also around the dinner table in the dining hall. Christina So what you’re saying is that virtual learning is not worthless. It is just different. Warren I do not oppose colleges offering programs virtually, but to offer accredited degrees that carry all the prestige and credentialing power of an in-person degree…well…that is just bearing false witness. Christina Let’s conclude today with news that the Texas State Board of Education passed a new required reading list that includes Bible passages. Warren On Friday, June 26, the Republican-controlled board voted 9-5-1 to approve a first-of-its-kind list that will affect more than 5 million public school students. Required readings for younger students include illustrated Old Testament stories such as Noah’s Ark and David and Goliath. By upper elementary school, students read New Testament passages about Jesus’ teachings and parables. Middle school and high school lessons pair scriptural themes with classic literature. Christina Most Christian groups are praising this decision. But you say…not so fast. Warren I will have to say that net-net I am glad they are reading the Bible in the classroom. You simply cannot understand most of Western literature – from Dante to Shakespeare to Faulkner to Eliot – without some biblical literacy. And I know that there are a lot of great public school teachers who will handle these texts with care and respect. Christina I sense a big fat…however…coming on. Warren Ha. So I’ll say it.  However… I do wonder what will happen when you put scripture into the hands of militantly secularized teachers, and you give them a platform to air their grievances. They may be forced to read the bible, but what if the teacher spends the rest of the class presenting arguments for its unreliability? Christina So are you opposed to reading the Bible in classrooms? Warren Absolutely not. I’m very much in favor of it, but I do wonder how it’s going to be taught. I would recommend that parents in Texas remain vigilant. Time will tell whether this was a positive innovation for the classroom, or one full of unintended consequences. Until then, though, I know that “God’s word will not return void.” So, I trust that the positive impact of scripture reading will be greater than any efforts to undermine it. Christina Any final thoughts before we go? Warren If you have not discovered our YouTube channel, check it out here. We now have nearly 200 videos there, and they have attracted tens of thousands of views. Subscribe, like, and share to spread the word about our work. I am in Albuquerque next month. If you live in the Land of Enchantment, one of my favorite states, reach out to me. I would love to share a meal or a cup of coffee with you. My email is wsmith@ministrywatch.com. We’d love to have your financial support as we approach our fiscal year end. Just go to www.ministrywatch.com/donate Christina The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m Christina Darnell, along with Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.

    15 min
  2. 1d ago

    Ep. 612: Is America Experiencing A Revival? George Barna Has His Doubts

    Evangelical Christians should earnestly hope for, pray for, and work for revival. Maybe that’s why we’re always looking for and too often declaring, with only limited evidence, that revival has broken out. We want it to be true, so we declare it to be true with just the slightest encouragement. We should also not be ignorant to the fact that many purveyors of revival talk have financial incentives. If I can say that God is at work here, and you should support the work that God is doing, that provides a powerful and sometimes manipulative message that will separate well-meaning but naïve Christians from their money. Revival talk sells books, fills auditoriums and arenas, and causes donations to flow. And while we do not want to quench the spirit (to use biblical language), we should be clear-eyed and discerning when we hear people talk of revival. And we’ve been hearing a lot lately that America is experiencing revival. Kenneth Copeland has repeatedly declared that America is entering a season of revival. On his broadcasts and at ministers’ conferences, he has described the nation as being on the verge of “the greatest awakening” and has tied it to his own prophetic announcements. Mario Murillo has been one of the strongest proponents of the “America is in revival” narrative. He argues that mass tent meetings, conversions in California and elsewhere, and openness among young people indicate that the country is already experiencing a “Third Great Awakening.” Lance Wallnau has likewise said that America is experiencing a spiritual awakening, often linking it with political developments and what he describes as a national “reformation.” But people who study religion say…not so fast. Today, I have one of the godfathers of Christian polling and survey work on the program, George Barna, and we address the question directly: Is America experiencing a revival. His thoughts on the subject may surprise you. George Barna is one of the best-known researchers of religion and culture in the United States. He founded the Barna Research Group in 1984, pioneering the use of survey research to measure Americans’ religious beliefs, church attendance, worldview, and cultural trends. After selling the Barna Group in 2009, he launched several research initiatives focused on faith and public life. Today, Barna serves as Professor of Cultural Research at Arizona Christian University, where he is Director of Research for the university’s Cultural Research Center. He is also Senior Research Fellow for the Center for Biblical Worldview at the Family Research Council and the author or co-author of more than 60 books on faith, culture, leadership, and worldview. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m your host, Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.

    27 min
  3. 6d ago

    Ep. 611: Truett McConnell University, Ed Young, Saeed Abedini, Barnabas Aid

    On today’s program, a former Truett McConnell president is suing, claiming the university breached his employment contract when it fired him amid claims that he mishandled sexual abuse allegations. We’ll take a look. And, Ed Young retired as pastor of Second Baptist Church of Houston after nearly 50 years. Now, he’s launched a new teaching ministry drawing from his decades of sermons and writings. But church members say the new ministry’s formation raises questions about who controls the church’s assets. We’ll have details. Plus, former Iranian prisoner Saeed Abedini — an international symbol of a Christian being persecuted for his faith — is being accused of abducting his 5-year-old daughter.  But first, Barnabas Aid — a ministry that serves persecuted Christians around the world — is now under direct oversight by regulators in the United Kingdom. The Charity Commission of England and Wales appointed two interim managers on June 19th — removing the charity’s trustees from governance entirely. The commission named Edwina Turner and Catherine Gibbon of Anthony Collins LLP to the role. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Henry Durand, Tony Mator, Bob Smietana, Christina Darnell, and Jessica Eturralde. A special thanks to The Christian Index for contributing material for this week’s podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.

    30 min
  4. Jun 25

    Ep. 610: Bending the ARC, Bethany Reverses Course on LGBTQ Adoptions

    Christina Hello, everyone, I’m Christina Darnell, the managing editor of MinistryWatch. Welcome to the MinistryWatch podcast. In today’s extra episode, I talk with Warren Smith about some news items that are slightly (even significantly) outside of our normal charity and philanthropy “beat.” So, Warren, what’s up first? Warren The Episcopal Church Center in Midtown Manhattan, commonly referred to as “815” because of its street address, 815 Second Ave., is for sale.For critics of the church, the building became a symbol of the bureaucracy and isolation of the denomination’s leadership. Christina Its sale now represents the continued decline of the denomination. Warren “We’ve done a detailed analysis about the best use of the building, with consultants and architects,” Chief Financial Officer Chris Lacovara said in a church news release. “We occupy a fraction of the Church Center space now, and the conclusion is that we don’t need to own and occupy a building in midtown Manhattan.” Christina The building is 12 stories high and has about 146,000 square feet of office space. Warren In 1965, the Episcopal Church had about 3.4 million people. Today, membership is officially listed at about 1.5 million, but less than a half-million attend Episcopal Churches on any given Sunday. Christina Next up, new data from Lifeway, but you have some concerns. Warren I do. I am a big data guy, but recent research from Lifeway does not pass my sniff test. Lifeway says that Gen Z adults who are regular churchgoers attend church at greater rates than other age cohorts. Christina So…regular church attend church regularly? Seems like you wouldn’t need a survey to come to that conclusion. Warren Exactly. The premise of the survey is strange. It is like saying, “In Texas, there are a high percentage of Texans.” Secondly, the Gen Z result is a serious outlier. “While the median churchgoer in each generation attends four worship services each month, the average Gen Z churchgoer attends a worship service at their church 6.2 times a month,” a statement from Lifeway said. This compares with “4.8 times for millennials, 5.1 for Gen X and 4.5 for baby boomers and older. This implies that while the typical Gen Z churchgoer attends at a similar frequency to other generations, there is a portion of young adults who attend at much higher rates.” Christina But other data we’ve reported on suggest that Gen Z is in fact not more religious. So what’s going on here? Warren The evidence increasingly suggests not a broad-based Gen Z revival, but a “committed remnant” phenomenon—fewer young adults in church, but those who are there are often attending with greater frequency and intentionality than previous generations of young adults. Christina Moving on…. Alliance of Responsible Citizenship (ARC) is meeting in London this week. Warren ARC claims to be an international movement of conservative thinkers, political leaders, business executives, academics, journalists, and religious leaders that seeks to renew the cultural, moral, and institutional foundations of Western civilization. Christina Founded in 2023 by figures including Jordan Peterson and Philippa Stroud, ARC describes its mission as helping to “re-lay the foundations of our civilization” by promoting responsibility, free institutions, strong families, economic opportunity, and a renewed sense of cultural confidence. Warren About 4,000 are gathered, from more than 85 countries. Many observers have dubbed it the “Conservative Davos” or the “anti-woke Davos.” Among this year’s speakers are Boris Johnson, Jordan Peterson, Arthur Brooks, Andy Crouch, Eric Metaxas, and Ross Douthat. Christina For Christians, ARC is particularly notable because Christian faith is not merely a side topic but a recurring theme. Warren Evangelical, Catholic, and Orthodox leaders are prominent participants, reflecting ARC’s belief that cultural renewal requires moral and spiritual renewal as well. Rod Dreher has been posting all week from London, and some of his posts have been pretty humorous. A nerd’s view from the cool kids’ table, you might say. You can find one of those posts here. Christina As we have reported here at MinistryWatch, Bethany Christian Services, one of the nation’s largest adoption and foster care organizations, has reaffirmed its commitment to a biblical sexual ethic. Warren This reaffirmation requires staff, board members and foster and adoptive families to “personally agree and adhere to” a belief statement that defines marriage as “a covenant between one man and one woman.” Christina Katy Faust, a conservative activist who believes same-sex couples should not be parents, celebrated the change. On X, Faust said it was evidence that the “vibe shift” is having a “measurable impact.” Warren It is too early for me to declare a “vibe shift,” but I hope she is right. In any case, it is likely not to impact adoption and foster care efforts much, since the number of LGBTQ+ folk who adopt children are small. According to the Williams Institute, about 35,000 same-sex couples are raising adopted children. That is certainly significant, but the significance diminishes when you consider that about 1.8 million children in the U.S., between 2 and 3 percent of all children, are living with adoptive parents. Supporting Faust’s claim of a “vibe shift” is a recent Gallup survey suggesting that 65 percent of Americans still favor legal same-sex marriage, but that’s six percentage points fewer than its peak in 2022-2023. Similarly, the percentage of Americans who view gay or lesbian relations and gender transitions as morally acceptable have fallen since the early 2020s. Christina Finally, we have some good news here at MinistryWatch. Warren I am pleased to let you know that MinistryWatch has received a grant from the Fund for Investigative Journalism to help us with investigative reporting in the coming year. Christina The FIJ is a nonprofit organization founded in 1969 that supports in-depth, public-interest investigative reporting by providing grants, editorial guidance, and legal assistance to journalists. Warren Its mission is to help reporters pursue stories that expose corruption, wrongdoing, abuses of power, and other issues of significant public concern that might otherwise go uncovered. Over its history, FIJ has awarded thousands of grants to freelance and staff journalists, helping launch investigations that have appeared in major outlets such as The New York Times, ProPublica, NPR, Frontline, The Washington Post, and many regional news organizations. The organization is widely regarded as one of the leading philanthropic supporters of investigative journalism in the United States. Christina Any final thoughts before we go? Warren If you have not discovered our YouTube channel, check it out here. We now have nearly 200 videos there, and they have attracted tens of thousands of views. Subscribe, like, and share to spread the word about our work. I am in Albuquerque next month. If you live in the Land of Enchantment, one of my favorite states, reach out to me. I would love to share a meal or a cup of coffee with you. My email is wsmith@ministrywatch.com. We’d love to have your financial support as we approach our fiscal year end. Just go to www.ministrywatch.com/donate Christina The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m Christina Darnell, along with Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.

    12 min
  5. Jun 18

    Ep. 607: UFC in the White House, Spain Revisited, Microfinancing Questioned

    Christina Hello, everyone, I’m Christina Darnell, the managing editor of MinistryWatch. Welcome to the MinistryWatch podcast. In today’s extra episode, I talk with Warren Smith about some news items that are slightly (even significantly) outside of our normal charity and philanthropy “beat.” So, Warren, what’s up first? Warren Microfinancing is taking a beating in the media these days. In the 1990s and 2000s, microfinancing was all the rage. The basic idea was to give entrepreneurs who could not qualify for loans at traditional banks an opportunity to take out a small loan to finance income producing activities. Christina Women could buy sewing machines and take in tailoring and alteration work to support her family. Men could buy motorcycles to take them to job sites or pick up trucks to start a hauling or construction business. Warren That’s exactly the idea. But new reporting by the Wall Street Journal questions the effectiveness of such microfinancing activities. It is also interesting that Christian ministries who got on the microfinancing bandwagon (Opportunity International, Hope International, Five Talents, and others) are now pivoting to savings groups, financial literacy, and broader economic development because the evidence for traditional microcredit has been more mixed than early advocates expected. Christina Something else that’s been in the news this week has been Steven Spielberg’s new movie “Disclosure Day.” Warren The new movie is being touted as a “takedown” of Christianity. Spielberg suggested that the discovery of extraterrestrial life would create a crisis for the Christian faith. Christina But a lot of Christian apologists have weighed in on this question and they say that’s not accurate. Warren That is right. I’ve got to confess that I’m skeptical of extraterrestrial life on other planets, at least life on any planets within reach. There’s some evidence of water on the moon and on Mars, so we might find some type of organism there, and that would be interesting. But I think we can see deeply enough into space to suggest that there’s nothing significant nearby. Christina But even if there was, nothing about Christian doctrine would be challenged by the discovery of extraterrestrial life. Warren I think that’s right. Christians from C.S. Lewis to Larry Norman (in his song “Unidentified Flying Object”) have written about this idea, and it is interesting but innocuous in terms of its threat to Christianity. A more troubling aspect of Spielberg’s film, according to Rod Dreher, is its overt Gnosticism, and ancient heresy that keeps getting re-heated and half-baked by modernists and post-modernists. Christina So what is Gnosticism? Warren Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious movements that taught that salvation comes through secret spiritual knowledge (gnosis) that awakens the divine spark within humans and frees them from the material world. To read Dreher’s critique of the film, click here. My friends John Stonestreet and Tim Padget over at The Colson Center have also written intelligently about this movie. You can find their commentary at www.BreakPoint.org. By the way, the film is getting decent reviews and is performing well at the box office, taking in $44 million its first weekend, against a $110 million production budget. Christina This week marks the anniversary of the death of someone you hold in high regard. Can you tell us about John Dyer? Warren If you find self-promoting (and, too often, self-destructive) Christian celebrities distasteful, John Dyer could be your palate cleanser. He lived in the 1800s, and he helped bring Christianity to the American West as a Methodist circuit riding preacher. A church he founded in the resort town of Breckenridge is still in operation. He also ended up in the Colorado Ski and Snowboard Hall of Fame. To find out why, read this piece, which I wrote a year ago, but which I call your attention to this week because it is the 125th anniversary of his death. Christina And you’ve been turning your eye toward Europe this week. Why? Warren Culturally speaking, things are strange in Europe right now. Birth rates are plummeting there even more than here. This fact will have profound economic and societal implications in the years ahead. I visited Spain 15 years ago and wrote about what I saw there for WORLD Magazine. (And here.) Here are the headlines from that story: Large, gorgeous, empty churches, an economy that lacked confidence, and conservative political parties hunkered down. Christina But that was, as you said, 15 years ago. Today, things have changed somewhat. Warren The economy is better, though not great. Center-right conservatives, represented by the Partido Popular, have been overtaken by the far-right Vox party. I started thinking about this when I read that Franklin Graham recently did a crusade in Madrid that attracted 10,000 people. That sounds like a lot until you realize that the musician Bad Bunny attracted 60,000 on the same night. Read my friend Bruce Bower’s account of what is happening in Spain here. Christina Another high-profile event this week was the UFC fights at the White House. Do you have any thoughts about that? Warren Christians often talk about the “good, true, and beautiful” as if they are separate things. They are not, these three qualities are unitary, of-a-piece. Something cannot be really TRUE or GOOD unless it is also BEAUTIFUL. Something that is ugly or banal aesthetically is also, to that extent, also less true and less good. These are ideas to consider as we assess the events of June 14, which was — in my view — another “wag the dog” spectacle designed to distract the masses. Juvenal had a phrase for it: panem et circenses. Bread and circuses. He also said that such spectacles were a sign of a nation in decline. Christina Any final thoughts before we go? Warren If you have not discovered our YouTube channel, check it out here. We now have nearly 200 videos there, and they have attracted tens of thousands of views. Subscribe, like, and share to spread the word about our work. I am in Albuquerque next month. If you live in the Land of Enchantment, one of my favorite states, reach out to me. I would love to share a meal or a cup of coffee with you. My email is wsmith@ministrywatch.com. We’d love to have your financial support as we approach our fiscal year end. Just go to www.ministrywatch.com/donate Christina The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m Christina Darnell, along with Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.

    13 min
4.7
out of 5
128 Ratings

About

Transparency and accountability are vital to the renewal of the evangelical church in America. Hosts Warren Smith and Natasha Smith highlight the top stories of the week from the unique MinistryWatch perspective and give you a peek behind the curtain to show why and how we do the investigations we do.

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