APAC's B2B Growth Podcast

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On APAC's B2B Growth Podcast, we unpack trends, bust myths, and deliver insights you can put to work today to drive growth in APAC. Hosted by Shahin Hoda & Vinnie Romano Produced by Shahin Hoda & Alexander Hipwell from xGrowth Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC: https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter

  1. The New B2B Playbook, What AI Startups Are Doing That Incumbents Aren't with Scott Albro

    2D AGO

    The New B2B Playbook, What AI Startups Are Doing That Incumbents Aren't with Scott Albro

    Getting your buyer's attention has never been harder. In this episode, Shahin sits down with Scott Albro, serial entrepreneur and GTM advisor to early-stage AI founders, to unpack what modern go-to-market actually looks like. Scott reframes the most common answer to "what's changed?" by showing how AI isn't just a trend; it's an accelerant for the three forces already making buyer attention scarce. From founder brand to manufactured moments, tight customer feedback loops to strategic narrative, Scott shares the GTM pillars he works through with his founder clients. He breaks down why the new breed of AI startups is out-marketing incumbents, what Lovable's live-streamed design competition can teach any B2B team, and why ServiceTitan's origin story is the best strategic narrative he's ever heard. Guest Introduction Scott Albro is a serial entrepreneur and go-to-market strategist who co-founded TOPO, a sales and marketing research and advisory firm acquired by Gartner, and advises early-stage AI founders on building their first go-to-market functions, drawing on 30 years of experience studying the GTM practices of the world’s fastest-growing companies. Key Topics Why attention scarcity is the defining GTM challenge today, and how AI makes it worse across three fronts: information overload, professional busyness, and competitive noiseWhat incumbent vendors like Salesforce and Workday need to do to defend their position as AI-native startups grow more innovative in both product and go-to-marketFounder brand as a strategic GTM asset: why it goes far beyond LinkedIn posts, and how Nick Mehta made Gainsight synonymous with the customer success movementGrowth experiments and the "Mr. Beast for SaaS" mindset: how Lovable drove 40,000 live viewers and 3 million replays with a zero-budget design competitionBuilding tight customer feedback loops: why the company that iterates fastest wins, and how AI is finally making weekly feedback cycles achievableManufacturing moments: how Mark Benioff staged a fake protest at Siebel's user conference to launch the no-software movement and put Salesforce on the mapStrategic narrative done right: why ServiceTitan's "the trades stand frozen in time" story is the best B2B narrative Scott has ever encounteredThe danger of performative nihilism: why shock-value launches like Cluely's generate page views but destroy brand equity Resources & Links People Mentioned Nick Mehta, former CEO of GainsightMarc Benioff, Chair, CEO and Co-Founder of Salesforce Companies & Tools TOPO / GartnerGainsightServiceTitanLovableEvidenza - a synthetic customer research platformSalesforceG2 Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Scott Albro Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    47 min
  2. Building Xero’s Brand from Scratch in Australia with Penny Elmslie

    FEB 26

    Building Xero’s Brand from Scratch in Australia with Penny Elmslie

    What does it take to build a brand from nothing in nine weeks, with no assets, no brand book, and a board breathing down your neck? Penny Elmslie did exactly that as the first Marketing Director Xero hired outside of New Zealand, turning a company most Australians confused with a certain photocopier brand into one of the world's most recognised accounting software businesses. Penny shares the story behind Xero's early Australian growth: the scrappy "Hello, Xero with an X" campaign, guerrilla activations like Cloudstreet, the partner strategy that turned accountants into an army, and the event machine that scaled from 30 people in a winery to thousands globally. She also opens up about joining Affinda as CMO and why AI document processing today mirrors where the cloud was a decade ago. Guest Introduction Penny Elmslie is a CMO, Board Director, and marketing coach who spent over a decade at Xero, rising from Australia's first Marketing Director to Global Director of Brand and Community. She is currently CMO at Affinda, a Melbourne-based AI document processing company named one of Australia's fastest-growing tech companies by Deloitte. Key Topics Building Xero's brand in nine weeks: Launching a full campaign with no brand book, no assets, and a tiny budget, and why the insight was simply making people spell the name correctly.The accountant-as-channel strategy: How Xero built its go-to-market around accountants and bookkeepers, turning that partner network into the most efficient channel to market.From "Hello" to XeroCon: How brand experience evolved from small intro sessions to national roadshows and a flagship conference now running worldwide.Cloudstreet and guerrilla marketing: The pop-up activation that scaled from a city storefront into a shipping container touring Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane.B2C thinking in a B2B world: Why Penny approaches every B2B campaign as human-to-human, and how that philosophy shaped her work at Xero.Joining Affinda: What drew her to an AI-first scale-up and the brand-building opportunity still ahead.Reactive vs. responsive: Why responding to market opportunity beats forcing a proactive plan early in a CMO role.Content quality in an AI-flooded world: Why human expertise must stay on the levers, and why brands that commit to their ICP and tone will win. Resources & Links People Chris Ridd- Former MD, Xero Australia (2011–2016)Rod Drury- Co-founder, Xero Companies & Tools Affinda- AI document processing platform; Penny's current companyAffinda Group- Parent company of Affinda, Draftable, Pathfindr, and VesparumDraftable- Document comparison software for legal teamsXero- Cloud-based accounting software for small businessesMYOB- Accounting software competitorLeo Burnett Australia- Creative agency Penny briefed on day one at XeroSputnik Agency- Melbourne agency Penny partnered with to launch Xero's first Australian campaign Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Penny Elmslie Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    40 min
  3. AI Myths Debunked and The Real Data Behind ChatGPT, Jobs, and Search Traffic With Rand Fishkin

    FEB 12

    AI Myths Debunked and The Real Data Behind ChatGPT, Jobs, and Search Traffic With Rand Fishkin

    While everyone panics about ChatGPT stealing traffic and AI replacing jobs, the data tells a different story. For every search on ChatGPT, there are 373 searches on Google. AI's disruption is far less dramatic than media hype suggests. Rand Fishkin challenges this prevailing wisdom about AI's impact on B2B marketing. In this conversation, Rand and Shahin explore why consensus views are usually wrong, how to build marketing strategies around actual audience behaviour, and what Rand learnt from building Moz versus SparkToro. From audience intelligence research to radical transparency about the venture capital trap, Rand delivers insights that help B2B marketers make smarter decisions. Guest Introduction Rand Fishkin is the co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, an audience research software company, and Snackbar Studio, an indie game development studio. Previously, he founded Moz, where he grew the company from debt to $50M+ in revenue over 17 years. He's the author of Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World and is known for his radical transparency about startup life and his contrarian takes on marketing trends. Key Topics AI's real impact on search: Data shows ChatGPT handles one search for every 373 on Google, and AI hasn't caused predicted job displacement (US unemployment remains historically low).Audience-specific research: Rather than following industry trends, marketers should investigate where their audience spends time using tools like SparkToro to discover relevant channels and influencers.Channel strategy and execution: Effective B2B marketing requires both overarching positioning strategy plus channel-specific tactical approaches for LinkedIn, email, and content platforms.Learning from hype cycles: From mobile apps to crypto, media creates fear-based narratives around technology that rarely match reality, and marketers who chase every trend waste resources.Building companies differently: Rand compares growing Moz with VC funding to building SparkToro through alternative funding, highlighting how serving investors rather than customers creates misaligned incentives. Resources & Links People: Amanda Natividad - VP of Marketing at SparkToro, referenced for her philosophy on social media algorithms and authentic engagement Companies & Tools: SparkToro - Audience research softwareMoz - SEO software platformSnackbar Studio - Indie game development studioChatGPT - Large language model by OpenAIDuckDuckGo - Privacy-focused search engine Books & Resources: Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World by Rand FishkinSparkToro Funding Documents - Open-sourced funding model and incorporation docsSnackbar Studio Funding Documents - Open-sourced funding model for indie game studio Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Rand Fishkin Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    46 min
  4. Standing Out in B2B Marketing Without a Big Budget with Udi Ledergor

    JAN 29

    Standing Out in B2B Marketing Without a Big Budget with Udi Ledergor

    In this episode, Udi Ledergor, Chief Evangelist at Gong and author of Courageous Marketing, explains why bold creativity is essential for startups competing in crowded B2B markets. Udi shares the principle behind Gong’s rise from zero to hundreds of millions in revenue: “different is better than better.” From fuchsia branding and a bulldog mascot to running Super Bowl ads as a startup, he shows how courageous marketing helps companies punch above their weight. The episode also explores practical ways to create standout content, foster experimentation, and turn customers into passionate fans, even on a limited budget. Guest Introduction Udi Ledergor is Chief Evangelist at Gong and author of the bestselling book Courageous Marketing. He served as Gong's first CMO, helping grow the company from zero to hundreds of millions in revenue whilst achieving a multi-billion-dollar valuation. Over his 20-year career, Udi has led marketing teams at successful companies, advised startups, served as a board member and angel investor, and mentored hundreds of marketers. Key Topics Different is better than better: Why startups should stop trying to incrementally beat competitors at their own game and instead do something completely different to get noticedPunching above your weight: How small startups can use guerrilla marketing tactics like out-of-home advertising to appear much bigger than they are when selling to enterprisesCreating raving fans as a company-wide operating principle: Why marketing can't own brand alone, and how every employee at Gong works to create raving fan experiences for customers, candidates, and partnersBuilding a culture of experimentation: The importance of fostering an environment where teams can take calculated risks, fail safely, and learn from both successes and flopsGong Labs content marketing: How Gong created original, data-driven content by analysing millions of sales calls to position themselves as the most informed voice in sales effectivenessCategory creation strategy: When it makes sense to create a new category (and when it doesn't), illustrated through the De Beers diamond engagement ring marketing campaignBold visual identity choices: The decision to use fuchsia pink and purple with a bulldog mascot in 2018 when all B2B competitors were using corporate blueStartup advertising on a shoestring budget: Creative approaches to billboard advertising, Super Bowl commercials, and other typically expensive channels that small companies can leverage Resources & Links People Mentioned: Chris Orlob - First content hire at Gong who created most early Gong content independently. Devin Reed - Former Gong sales rep who transitioned into leading Gong’s content marketing. Kyle Lacy - CMO referenced for using AI to eliminate obvious ideas and push creative thinking. Michael Lewis - Author and podcast host whose show drove inbound interest for Gong. Francis Gerety- Copywriter behind the “A Diamond Is Forever” campaign, cited as a category creation example. Companies & Platforms Mentioned Gong - Revenue intelligence platformGong Labs - Data research and insightsDe Beers - Diamond company referenced for category creation example Books & Resources Courageous Marketing - a practical playbook for B2B marketers to drive impact and accelerate career success. Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Udi Ledergor Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    47 min
  5. How to Book a Meeting with Anyone with Stu Heinecke

    JAN 15

    How to Book a Meeting with Anyone with Stu Heinecke

    What if a $28 Facebook ad could generate $20 million? Stu Heinecke, the father of contact marketing, reveals how micro-focused campaigns connect you with virtually anyone. Stu shares stories of a sales rep who used a live pigeon to reach a famous CEO, a startup that landed Walmart with one targeted ad, and how Kris Kristofferson landed a helicopter on Johnny Cash's lawn to deliver a demo tape. Guest Introduction Stu Heinecke is a bestselling author, Hall of Fame-nominated marketer, and Wall Street Journal cartoonist who helps B2B sellers acquire million-dollar accounts. His campaigns have produced response rates as high as 300% and ROI in the millions of percent. Key Topics Contact marketing defined: Targeted campaigns (as few as one person) marked by creativity, audacity, and relevancePigeon campaign that closed a $250,000 deal with a famous tech CEOOrabrush's $28 Facebook ad that landed a 735,000-unit Walmart orderDeep personalisation through profile research and relevant giftsWhy compelling campaigns exceed 100% response rates through viral sharingGetting started by reading foundational books and researching prospects Resources & Links People Mentioned Dan Waldschmidt - Turnaround specialist who sends swords, achieving 100% response ratesKris Kristofferson - Singer-songwriter who landed helicopter on Cash's lawn for demo deliveryJohnny Cash - Country legend who received Kristofferson's helicopter deliveryJune Carter - Cash's wife who received Kristofferson's demo tapesLeonardo da Vinci - Renaissance artist who used creative approaches with the Count of Milan Books How to Get a Meeting with Anyone - Foundational contact marketing book, top 65 sales books of all timeGet the Meeting! - Follow-up with 60+ illustrated case studies Companies & Organizations Orabrush - Tongue cleaner startup, $28 Facebook ad to WalmartWalmart - Retail giant targeted by Orabrush's Bentonville adsAmerican Marketing Association - Named Stu "father of contact marketing" Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC: https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Stu Heinecke Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    41 min
  6. Rebroadcast: How to Build a Personal Brand Without Losing Your Mind with Caleb Ralston

    JAN 1

    Rebroadcast: How to Build a Personal Brand Without Losing Your Mind with Caleb Ralston

    Caleb Ralston challenges one of the most sacred rules in personal branding: niching down. While it's technically the fastest path to growth, it's also a fast track to burnout and quitting altogether. In this conversation with Shahin Hoda, Caleb shares hard-won insights from working with some of the biggest names in business (Gary Vaynerchuk, Alex and Leila Hormozi) and reveals the sustainable approach to building a personal brand that doesn't make you hate what you've created. From why you should inject your personality into everything you make, to how organisations can build loyalty by empowering team members to develop their own brands, this episode is packed with contrarian wisdom for anyone building content for the long term. Guest Introduction Caleb Ralston is a brand strategist, content producer, and creator mentor who has worked with Gary Vaynerchuk, Leila and Alex Hormozi, and other leading voices in entrepreneurship. He now helps founders and creators scale content in a way that's sustainable, strategic, and honest through his company Ralston. Key Topics Why niching down is overrated: The conventional wisdom on niching down works in theory but leads to creator burnout and audience fatigue in practice. Caleb explains why sustainability matters more than short-term growth hacks.The sustainability framework for content creation: Building a personal brand is like fitness: you get returns by doing it forever, not by sprinting for a year and quitting. Learn how to create systems that allow you to keep showing up.Lessons from working with Gary V and the Hormozis: What most people assume about these mega-brands is completely wrong. Caleb shares the behind-the-scenes reality of how these creators actually build their influence.Injecting personality without losing focus: How to integrate your interests and quirks into your content without confusing your audience or diluting your message.Building personal brands within organisations: The Barstool Sports approach to content: why Dave Portnoy isn't in all the content, and how this creates a more scalable, sustainable media company. How this strategy applies to B2B companies.Strategic hiring for content bottlenecks: Why your first hire shouldn't be another you, and how to identify the specific constraint that's actually holding back your content production.Being 100% yourself in the age of AI: As everyone starts sounding the same on LinkedIn with ChatGPT-generated posts, authenticity becomes your competitive advantage. Caleb's advice: lean into your insecurities and the things you're terrified to share. Resources & Links People Mentioned: Gary Vaynerchuk - Entrepreneur and Chairman of VaynerXAlex Hormozi - Co-founder and Managing Partner at Acquisition.comLeila Hormozi - CEO of Acquisition.comPaddy Galloway - YouTube strategist and content optimization expertDave Portnoy - Founder of Barstool Sports Books & Resources: Crush It! by Gary Vaynerchuk - The book that inspired Caleb to pursue his current pathCaleb's YouTube ChannelRalston - Caleb's brand strategy and content company Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Caleb Ralston Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    47 min
  7. 2x Your Revenue Growth Without Increasing Your Marketing Budget with Robert Chatwani

    12/18/2025

    2x Your Revenue Growth Without Increasing Your Marketing Budget with Robert Chatwani

    What if your CEO asked you to double revenue without adding budget or headcount? Robert Chatwani, President and General Manager of Growth at DocuSign, believes not only is it possible - there's never been a better time to make it happen. In this conversation, Robert unpacks the frameworks and organisational changes required to achieve exponential growth with existing resources. From building agile growth squads that operate like engineering teams to leveraging AI agents for hyper-personalised prospecting, he reveals how DocuSign is transforming from an e-signature company into an AI-powered platform. If you're facing budget cuts but still expected to deliver results, this episode offers a roadmap. Guest Introduction Robert Chatwani is President and General Manager, Growth at DocuSign, where he leads the Marketing & Growth organisation to scale its digital strategy across marketing, product, technology and sales. Before joining DocuSign, Robert was CMO of Atlassian, where he helped scale the business to nearly $3 billion in revenue. He also spent more than a decade at eBay, ending his tenure as Chief Marketing Officer for North America where his teams supported $35 billion in trading volume. Robert is the 2023 American Heart Association Bay Area Heart Walk Chair and serves as a West Coast Board Member at the American India Foundation. Key Topics The 2x-10x challenge: Why companies expect exponential output increases without adding resources, and why Robert believes marketing teams can deliver.Thomas Barta's V-Zone framework: Maximising the overlap between customer needs and company needs to drive business impact and secure executive support.The harsh realities facing B2B teams: CAC is up 60% since the pandemic, traditional channels show diminishing returns, and most GTM models are obsolete - creating opportunities for teams willing to rethink their approach.Operating principles over company values: DocuSign's five core principles - "we before me," "dreaming big," "take action," "ignite the way," and "delivering customer delight" - that guide team behaviours and decisions.Growth squads and agile methodologies: Why effective GTM teams operate like engineering teams with two-week sprints, daily standups, and experiment backlogs instead of traditional campaign structures.Building a culture of experimentation: Robert's framework for systematic testing - generating ideas, prioritising experiments, executing with discipline, and scaling what works.AI-powered prospecting in action: How DocuSign used AI agents to turn tens of thousands of exhausted leads into millions in the pipeline, generating 60 replies and 15 meetings within 72 hours.Designing for the future you want: Why leaders must ask whether their current team structure and capabilities match what they would design from scratch to achieve ambitious growth goals. Resources & Links People Mentioned: Thomas Barta-Marketing leadership expert and author of "The 12 Powers of a Marketing Leader"Jeff Bezos-Founder of Amazon, referenced for the "two pizza team" principle Companies & Platforms: DocuSign-Agreement management platformAtlassian-Collaboration softwareeBay-Online marketplaceAmazon-Benchmark for experimentation cultureNetflix-Benchmark for experimentation cultureAirbnb-Benchmark for experimentation cultureUber-Benchmark for experimentation culture Concepts & Frameworks: The V-Zone (Value Creation Zone)-Maximising overlap between customer and company needsThe 12 Powers of a Marketing Leader-Book by Thomas Barta and Patrick BarwiseTwo-Pizza Team-Amazon's principle for keeping teams small (5-8 people) Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC: https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Robert Chatwani Produced by:  Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    34 min
  8. Don’t Market to the 5% of Buyers Who Are Ready to Buy Today with Jon Lombardo

    12/04/2025

    Don’t Market to the 5% of Buyers Who Are Ready to Buy Today with Jon Lombardo

    In this episode, Jon Lombardo, Co-Founder of Evidenza, unpacks the counterintuitive truth about B2B buying behaviour. Drawing on research from the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute, Jon reveals why most B2B marketers fundamentally misunderstand their audience. The 95-5 rule shows that 95% of potential buyers aren't in the market right now, which means the traditional focus on short-term lead generation is missing the bigger picture.  Jon also explains how AI-powered synthetic research is transforming market intelligence, why B2B needs more brand building than B2C, and what marketers should do about it.  If you're stuck chasing in-market buyers whilst your competitors build future demand, this conversation will change how you think about growth. Guest Introduction Jon Lombardo is Co-Founder of Evidenza, a synthetic AI market research platform that surveys AI-generated customer copies to build evidence-based marketing plans in hours rather than months. Previously, Jon was Head of Research at LinkedIn's B2B Institute, where he helped establish the 95-5 rule and commissioned pioneering research on how B2B brands grow. Key Topics The 95-5 rule: why 95% of B2B buyers are out of market at any given time, and why that matters more than the 5% who are ready to buyThe 11X rule: how B2B buying cycles are 11 times longer than B2C, making brand building even more critical in B2B than consumer categoriesThe evolution from the 60-40 rule to 95-5: how research with John Dawes from Ehrenberg-Bass Institute challenged conventional wisdom about marketing budget allocationMental and physical availability in B2B: creating brand-relevant memories that activate when buyers eventually come into the marketAI and synthetic research: how Evidenza uses AI to interview synthetic customers, delivering market research in hours that would traditionally take monthsBootstrapped growth: how Evidenza launched with paying customers from day one without venture capital, growing to over 100 clientsThe future of AI in marketing: why AI is underrated and will transform marketing beyond what most people imaginePractical applications: how to use AI for execution whilst keeping strategic thinking human Resources & Links People Mentioned: Mark Ritson - Marketing professor, columnist, and founder of Marketing Week Mini MBAJohn Dawes - Professor at Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing ScienceLes Binet - Marketing effectiveness researcher and econometricianPeter Field - Marketing consultant and authorPeter Weinberg - Co-Founder of EvidenzaBrian Watroba - Co-Founder of EvidenzaJenny Romaniuk - Professor at Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing ScienceRachel Kennedy - Professor at Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing ScienceNicole Hartnett - Professor at Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing ScienceByron Sharp - Professor of Marketing Science at Ehrenberg-Bass Institute Companies & Organisations: Evidenza - Synthetic AI market research platformEhrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science - The World's largest centre for research into marketingLinkedIn B2B Institute - Marketing think tank (Jon's former employer) Key Frameworks: The 95-5 Rule - Research on B2B buying behaviour shows that only 5% of buyers are in marketThe 11X Rule - How B2B buying cycles differ from B2CThe 60-40 Rule - Les Binet and Peter Field's framework for balancing brand building and sales activation Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC:https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter Contact & Credits Hosts: Shahin Hoda and Vinnie Romano Guest Jon Lombardo Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

    43 min
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On APAC's B2B Growth Podcast, we unpack trends, bust myths, and deliver insights you can put to work today to drive growth in APAC. Hosted by Shahin Hoda & Vinnie Romano Produced by Shahin Hoda & Alexander Hipwell from xGrowth Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC: https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter

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