Phoenix and Flame Podcast

Dana Skaggs: psychotherapist and keynote speaker

Phoenix and Flame is a podcast by Dana Skaggs, M.A. She is called the "Queen of Boundaries" as well as the "Sassy Psychotherapist." Her podcast is about going From Ash to Flight on the Wings of Boundaries. If you feel alone in your struggle, check out the candid interviews with inspiring guests. You'll hear their authentic journey through struggle, what helped them, what hurt them, and how they finally rose from the ashes. Dana asks direct, thought-provoking questions infused with snarky humor and therapeutic commentary, designed so her listeners will take away useful and applicable rubber-meets-the-road coping strategies.

  1. 6d ago

    Why the Clearest Voice Wins

    [iframe style="border:none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/43573744/height/100/width//thumbnail/no/render-playlist/no/theme/custom/tdest_id/5280105/custom-color/87A93A" height="100" width="100%" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen] First aired 11/1/2026 Dr. Kristine Sickels spent 20 years climbing the corporate ladder, rising to senior vice president of marketing for a $2 billion portfolio of household brands. Along the way she noticed a problem she couldn't unsee: in boardrooms and conference rooms, the experts were often women, and they were either softening their point of view or not speaking up at all. Now a speaker, coach, CEO of Mic Drop Workshop and author of The Clearest Voice in the Room, Kristine helps women speak with power and intention at work. She and Dana talk about the "seven silencers" that keep women quiet, why communication is a power skill and not a soft skill, what Nokia's downfall teaches us about the cost of silence, and practical ways to build the confidence to speak up, starting long before the big meeting. Watch this episode https://youtu.be/R4ygVtMmSzE In this episode The seven silencers, from fear of hearing "no" to worrying about being liked, and why "I'm just not good at it" isn't true Why it's not about being the loudest voice in the room, but the clearest How to kindly name it when you're talked over or someone repeats your idea Why silence is one of the biggest hidden costs in an organization, and how leaders can build a culture where every voice is heard Practical tools: low-risk speaking reps, the "moose on the table," a risk-vs-benefit check and bullet points that keep you steady when emotions run high Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dr. Kristine Sickels, former SVP of marketing, CEO of Mic Drop Workshop and author (02:12) Why so many women in the boardroom stayed silent or softened their point of view (04:33) The seven silencers: fear of a "no," wanting to be liked and "I'm just not good at it" (07:45) Executive presence, and why the loudest voice isn't the clearest (11:01) Perfectionism, being talked over and how to name it with kindness (15:21) Finding the middle ground between silence and overcorrecting (18:21) Defining your values: optimism, curiosity and candor (21:46) Why communication is a power skill, not a soft skill (22:30) The real cost of silence, and what happened at Nokia (25:16) How leaders can encourage every voice, and putting the moose on the table (28:09) Practical tips for team members: low-risk reps, preparing a point of view and speaking early (30:16) Weighing the risk vs. benefit of using your voice (31:51) Using bullet points as guardrails when emotions run high (35:02) Where to find Dr. Kristine Sickels and The Clearest Voice in the Room About Dr. Kristine Sickels Dr. Kristine Sickels is a speaker, coach and author who helps women speak with clarity and confidence at work. She spent 20 years in corporate marketing, rising to senior vice president of marketing for a $2 billion portfolio of household brands including Rubbermaid, Crock-Pot, Calphalon, Mr. Coffee and Oster. She is CEO of Mic Drop Workshop, which helps women get on stage and book paid speaking engagements, and co-founder of C-Sweet, a women-owned consulting firm. She holds a doctorate in business administration from Georgia State University and an MBA from the University of Michigan. Connect with Kristine on LinkedIn or visit her website. Her book, The Clearest Voice in the Room: How to Speak with Power and Intention at Work, is available on Amazon in print, Kindle and Audible. Favorite quotes "It's not about being the loudest voice in the room. It's about being the clearest." —Dr. Kristine Sickels "Speaking is a muscle. It is not your identity forever." —Dr. Kristine Sickels "Silence has a real cost in organizations." —Dr. Kristine Sickels Resources mentioned The Clearest Voice in the Room: How to Speak with Power and Intention at Work by Dr. Kristine Sickels: Amazon (print, Kindle and Audible) Mic Drop Workshop: public speaking training for women Dr. Kristine Sickels' website Dr. Kristine Sickels on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript Dana Skaggs (00:01) Welcome to Phoenix and Flame. If you are here for the first time, I'm so glad you're here. If you're returning, that's amazing. And we have a fabulous guest with us today, Dr. Kristine Sickels. She spent 20 years climbing the corporate ladder, becoming the senior VP of marketing for a $2 billion portfolio of brands, including. Rubbermaid, Crock-Pot, Calphalon, Mr. Coffee, and Oster. However, along the way, she noticed a problem. She could not unsee. Women's voices were often missing from the rooms where decisions got made. So she spent the second half of her career changing that. Kristine, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. Dr. Kristine Sickels (01:01) Thanks for having me. So excited to be here. So thank you. Dana Skaggs (01:05) Well, and guys, you'll find out along the way also that Kristine and I know each other from the Mic Drop Academy, which is an amazing women's public speaking. Well, it's an academy that you go through where you learn all kinds of skills of how to feel more confident and comfortable speaking, whether it's in front of a a PTA group or in front of a boardroom or wherever it must be. And Kristine is one of the wonderful coaches on that. And you'll hear more about that on my mid-roll minute. all kinds of things. Mic drop workshop, boot camp, all kinds of fun stuff. Now, also, Kristine, you you have writing. You're writing and you're speaking and you're coaching, and you help women to speak with clarity and confidence at work. So Tell us start wherever you would like. some of your experiences along the way or, why you decided to dig in when it finally hits you that something, something's not right here. And and you started noticing that. Dr. Kristine Sickels (02:12) Yeah, well I would say that one, as you mentioned, I was in corporate America for over twenty years, and there were times when I would notice that we would be in a boardroom, a conference room, important meetings, and the experts in the room who oftentime were women weren't speaking up about their ideas or their functional expertise. And they may have some information that would be really helpful to the conversation. And I saw one of two things happening. Either one, they were softening their point of view or maybe translating it or dialing it down a bit versus what they really wanted to say, or they just weren't speaking up at all. And then as I left corporate America and started doing consulting work, and as you mentioned, started working with Mic Drop Workshop, I continued to see the same trend. So many women not using their voice, but yet had so many valuable things to say. And that's where I decided that I wanted to write a book about it. that could be helpful to today's generation, but also the next generation that's coming in behind us to help women think about how to use their voices with power and intention at work. Dana Skaggs (03:28) I love that so much. And I have experienced the same thing. And I would say the vast majority of the women and men that are listening right now have been in these group scenarios where there are women that they knew from chats around the coffee pot or chats in the hallway, they knew that women had amazing things to share. And then they would go in a team meeting and would look over. And expect her to pipe up and she's either just sitting there like this and they keep looking at her like, are you gonna say your thing, right? Or Dr. Kristine Sickels (04:03) Yeah. Dana Skaggs (04:03) she does, but she's very soft-spoken. I'm wondering from your experience and your conversations, why do you feel like this has been the trend where they don't speak up and if they do, it's very soft-spoken. Why is that? And also an a second follow-up question to that is. What are the dynamics in the room? do you notice if it's mostly women in the room, is it the same thing? If it's co ed, is it the same thing? If it's majority of men, is it the same thing? What have you noticed with that? Dr. Kristine Sickels (04:33) So first, I I identify in my book what I call the seven silencers, which I see are the main reasons that women identify why they don't speak up in meetings. And so I'll talk through some of them. We don't have to go through all of them, Dana Skaggs (04:49) Fabulous. Dr. Kristine Sickels (04:49) but one is I'm afraid I'm gonna get a no. I have an idea and I am ready to like bring it to the organization. But I've been observing in other meetings what might what happened. And then all of a sudden if I get a no, it feels like a failure. And so I don't want to speak up. Well, the thing that I would say about that is is that's going to happen, right? as we sit in organizations, we're not always going to get the yes. And I used to think that when I was young in my career, the best presentation I give is when everybody's like, yes, let's do Dana Skaggs (05:22) Yes. Dr. Kristine Sickels (05:23) it. We've all we're going to take your idea just as it came. But

  2. Oct 25

    How Boundaries Break the Cycle of Control

    [iframe style="border:none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/43392894/height/100/width//thumbnail/no/render-playlist/no/theme/custom/tdest_id/5280105/custom-color/87A93A" height="100" width="100%" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen] First aired 10/25/2026 Rev. Jocelyn Jones spent a decade leading a church youth nonprofit before a "holy discontent" pushed her to build a ministry beyond the four walls of the church. What began as a weekly blog about how God helps people heal from trauma grew into a national Christian trauma healing ministry, and eventually a coaching practice for women who want to turn their calling into a sustainable business. But behind the scenes, Jocelyn was carrying wounds of her own. She opens up about running from sexual trauma by pouring herself into ministry work, and about finding herself in an abusive marriage while helping others heal. Dana and Jocelyn talk about how to know when God is calling you somewhere new, how to recognize abuse that isn't physical, why boundaries threaten people who seek control, and why faith-driven women need to charge their worth. Watch this episode [https://youtu.be/B7PxWjyL1Kc] In this episode How to recognize "holy discontent" and three questions to help you discern your calling Why you can have Jesus and a therapist, and how faith and mental health work together The many forms of abuse (spiritual, emotional, financial and more) and why talking discreetly to someone trained is a safe first step How boundaries protect you, and Dana's yard analogy for knowing what is and isn't yours to carry Ministry and money: building a sustainable kingdom business without giving everything away for free Timestamps (00:40) Welcome and guest intro: meet Rev. Jocelyn Jones, speaker, two-time best-selling author and Christian business coach (02:06) From church youth center director to building ministry beyond the walls of the church (03:07) How a blog, Faith Fridays and Zoom trauma healing groups grew into a national ministry (06:52) Holy discontent: three questions to discern whether God is calling you somewhere new (10:58) Running from trauma through ministry, and why you can have Jesus and a therapist (13:13) Helping others heal while living in an abusive marriage (17:58) Recognizing abuse that isn't physical, and why to talk to someone trained (23:17) Saying no, backing down and the signs of emotional abuse (27:15) Dana's yard analogy for understanding boundaries (30:03) Why couples counseling can be risky in abusive relationships (31:48) Ministry and money: building a sustainable kingdom business (33:38) Why women need to charge their worth (36:45) Where to find Rev. Jocelyn Jones, her books and her free Ministry Launch Starter Kit About Rev. Jocelyn Jones Rev. Jocelyn Jones is a speaker, two-time best-selling author and Christian business coach who helps purpose-driven women turn their calling into sustainable, impactful businesses. She holds a master's in social work and a master's in theology, and is the founder of Faith on the Journey, a Christian trauma healing ministry offering Christ-centered healing groups, church retreats and resources. Drawing on her own story as a survivor of sexual trauma and domestic violence, she speaks boldly about healing, faith and the truth that abuse is not God. Connect with Rev. Jocelyn on Instagram or LinkedIn, or visit RevJocelyn.com. Her books, Sister, Start Your Ministry and Breaking the Power of the Mask, are available at [where to buy], and women ready to build a ministry beyond the walls of the church can grab her free Ministry Launch Starter Kit on her website. Favorite quotes "You can have Jesus and a therapist." —Rev. Jocelyn Jones "Abuse is not God." —Rev. Jocelyn Jones "Charge your worth, charge your value." —Rev. Jocelyn Jones Resources mentioned Sister, Start Your Ministry by Rev. Jocelyn Jones Breaking the Power of the Mask by Rev. Jocelyn Jones Free Ministry Launch Starter Kit: at RevJocelyn.com National Domestic Violence Hotline: call 1-800-799-7233 or text START to 88788 Rev. Jocelyn Jones on Instagram: @REVJOCELYN Rev. Jocelyn Jones on LinkedIn:  Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript Dana Skaggs (00:40) Welcome friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Reverend Jocelyn Jones. Reverend Jocelyn Jones is a speaker, two-time best-selling author, and Christian business coach who helps purpose-driven women turn their calling into sustainable, impactful businesses. Reverend Jocelyn, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. Rev. Jocelyn Jones (01:18) Thank you so much for having me. it's a joy. Dana Skaggs (01:21) This is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun. So gosh, where do I even begin? You later on in your bio, you talk about helping women gain clarity, build structure. it just goes on and on. I've got all kinds of questions, but let me back away and give you some space to just tell us a little bit about yourself. And you can start wherever you would like. Some people really like stories from the very beginning that that really are impactful to them. Some people want to start later, but wherever you start, we'll end up weaving wherever we need to weave in the conversation. So what tell us a little bit about you and why why this interest? How did you get to this place? Rev. Jocelyn Jones (02:06) Thank you, Dana. Well, I I tell you, it's been quite the journey. And for me, I have been working in full-time ministry since the age of 23. And I was offered an opportunity to work at my church at the nonprofit youth center, and I became the executive director there. For about 10 years, I served diligently, and it was very rewarding work. But have you ever had that time in your life where even though what you were doing was rewarding? You knew you were in the right season at some point, but you knew that season was coming to an end. And I felt like God was calling me to more. I felt like God was calling me to build something beyond the walls of the church that was ministry, but it looked different. And I didn't quite know how that looked. But over time I I prayed, I fasted, went to seminary school trying to find myself and eventually I I made the decision to step out of The box, if you will, and start my ministry that we're gonna talk about today. And it started off as a blog, me writing stories about how God helped people to heal from trauma. And I published that weekly on Fridays, calling it Faith Fridays. And then over time I started writing books and podcasts. But what really was a life-changing moment for me, someone invited me to a Christian trauma healing group. It was a Bible study that included mental health. Health principles to help people heal from trauma. And it was in March of 2020, right at the beginning Dana Skaggs (03:42) Mm. Rev. Jocelyn Jones (03:43) of COVID. You know exactly what was happening then. And Dana Skaggs (03:45) Mm-hmm. Rev. Jocelyn Jones (03:47) I have a background in social work. I have my MSW and my master's in theology. And when I saw this curriculum, I was like, this is amazing. This combines both my loves. And I started doing that on Zoom because we were all locked down. But because I started doing these regularly on Zoom, that allowed for me to connect with people across the country who were looking for healing, who wanted connection. And that over time allowed for me to grow my ministry from that blog to national Christian trauma healing business over the last several years. And from that, that's when I connected with other women who wanted to learn how to start their faith-based ministry in business. And that's when that second arm began of me supporting other women. Dana Skaggs (04:30) I love this so much. And I already have so many questions for you. And and before I have several already written down, but before I get to those, as you were just describing this, I'm thinking of a lot of people that are that are in church. I I grew up in church myself and I'm a Christian. it's I don't know, it seems easier for people sometimes when they're following the status quo. When they're following the path that seems to be the vanilla path, which is not the path I've taken, by the way. but I'm not a vanilla gal, but it just seems like it's easier sometimes, it seems easier when people are following the path that everyone seems to be doing and that everyone seems to expect them to do too. And when God calls you to take the exit, to go somewhere else, I think of for example, like Jonah. he didn't want to go to Nineveh. He's like, I ain't going to Nineveh, no way. Uh-uh, I'm doing that. But we saw, we know how that ends. And so my question to you is, for someone right now who is maybe working at a church or or going to church, but they feel how how do they know if if they if their path is my is leading somewhere else? Because maybe they're maybe the spirit is prompting them with something, but they're like, ooh, I don't know. I don't know. I think I should just keep coming and doing the same thing and and follow what everyone else is doing. Cause that seems that's what in it

  3. Oct 18

    Why HR Needs a Seat at the Table

    First aired 10/18/2026 You've spoken up. You've set the boundary. Two years later, nothing has changed. For a lot of high performers, that's the moment burnout sets in and they quietly check out. In this episode, Dana sits down with Timothy Ernst, an HR and organizational development leader with more than three decades of experience in manufacturing and construction, to ask what really has to change when saying the words isn't enough. Tim got into HR "backwards," moving from broadcast journalism into organizational development, and he has spent his career learning the work from the assembly line to the construction site. Together, they talk about why HR needs a seat at the table, the difference between listening and truly hearing, why turnover is the clearest measure of culture, what to do when your company has no HR department, and why AI is a tool, not a replacement for people. Watch this episode https://youtu.be/Vlkctg2-GaI In this episode Why HR earns its seat at the table by understanding operations and the P&L, and how to move from tactical to strategic The difference between a manager who listens and a leader who truly hears, and why humility and owning mistakes build trust Why turnover, especially among your high-potential employees, is the clearest measure of your culture, and how quiet quitting begins What to do when you've spoken up and nothing changes, including when there is no HR department Why AI is a powerful tool but people still have to execute, and the five connected systems behind a healthy culture Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Timothy Ernst, an HR and organizational development leader with 30+ years of experience (02:58) Getting into HR "backwards": from broadcast journalism to organizational development (04:55) Lessons from Whirlpool and a "PhD level education in human emotion" (06:20) Why HR needs a seat at the table: learning the business and the P&L (07:57) How HR is viewed and the pain points of working in HR (09:04) Tactical vs. strategic HR, and creating a safe space to talk (10:26) Keeping veteran knowledge in-house by leveraging experienced leaders for their minds (12:48) You've spoken up for two years and nothing has changed: now what? (14:54) Listening vs. hearing, and why leaders need humility (16:51) Daily management systems: what happens when nobody's watching (18:18) Leading virtual teams and building trust through intentional check-ins (19:53) Belonging, burnout, and quiet quitting (21:21) Turnover and high-potential employees as a measure of culture (21:46) "Do more with less," overwhelm, and the cost of burnout (23:59) What leaders and HR can do: play to strengths and give stretch assignments (26:56) No HR department? Ask your manager: can you take a risk? (28:01) Dana's "yards" model of boundaries (29:27) How AI will impact the workplace: a tool, not a replacement (32:03) Authenticity in an AI-assisted world (33:14) Keeping your own voice, and Tim's book Systems Over Slogans (35:17) Where to find Timothy Ernst and his books (37:53) Why his book is different: communication, conflict, and five connected systems About Timothy Ernst Timothy Ernst is an HR, organizational development, and leadership development professional with more than three decades of experience at the intersection of people, operations, and business strategy. He began in broadcast journalism, found his way into organizational development at Western Kentucky University, and went on to work at Whirlpool and in the construction industry, where he made a point of working alongside crews to see the job through their eyes. He is writing two books: Systems Over Slogans: How Leaders Build Cultures That Perform, Adapt, and Endure, and a second on leveraging HR as a strategic partner. Connect with Timothy on LinkedIn and follow him there for updates on his books. Favorite quotes "There is a very big difference between listening and hearing." —Timothy Ernst "They've quit on the job, they just forgot to tell you." —Timothy Ernst "You're never going to know that until you take that risk and ask the question." —Timothy Ernst Resources mentioned Systems Over Slogans: How Leaders Build Cultures That Perform, Adapt, and Endure by Timothy Ernst: follow Timothy on LinkedIn for release updates Timothy's second book on HR as a strategic partner: currently in progress Timothy Ernst on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript Dana (00:01) Welcome friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Timothy Ernst. Now, Timothy, for more than three decades, worked at the intersection of human resources, organizational development, leadership development. Dana (00:28) And business strategy, but then he became fascinated with a question. Why do some organizations achieve sustainable success while others struggle? Even though all the organizations have access to similar resources, technology, and opportunities. Tim, welcome to Phoenix in Flame. Timothy Ernst (00:56) Thanks for having me, Dana. I really appreciate it. Dana (00:59) This is amazing. Now guys, I I ran across Tim on LinkedIn because as we'll do and and I'm wanting to support high performers and burnout and and all the things and so I'm trying to connect with people. Well what you what happens on LinkedIn, for those that don't know, it can be a fabulous place and sometimes you run into folks that I don't know, they're dry. They seem like they're they have good words. Dana (01:29) Good words, good descriptions, but then when you try to make a connection and you try to create a relationship to get something to happen, there's just there's not a lot there. either they're not interested or to be brutally honest, and that's what we're like on Phoenix and Flame, they're just really boring. Right? It's just like you fall asleep talking to them, all right. So Dana (01:55) Tim and I, that's not what happened. We I I found him on there. I'm like, my gosh, I love what he was standing for. I love his his supportive people, which we're gonna get into all of this. And then we reached out and we had a connection call. And we really we had fun, we laughed, we we we had a good time and we talked about stuff that really mattered because I could tell from Tim, and we're gonna we're gonna unpack it here, that he was willing to go there and address the real things and say the words. Dana (02:22) Because I really don't have a lot of patience for people that aren't willing to go there and address the real issues. Cause as a therapist, I hear about these real issues in my office. So this is where people really live. And so if we can't talk about it, we're wasting time as far as I'm concerned. So Tim, I'm very glad to have you on Phoenix and Flame. So, I like to create space in the beginning of the podcast for my guests to Timothy Ernst (02:47) That's fair. Dana (02:47) decide, do you want to start at the beginning? Dana (02:52) Y H R. Or do you have a story you want to jump right into? We'll go wherever you want to go. Timothy Ernst (02:58) Well, I like to tell people that I got into the HR space backwards. I was I I tell the story, I'm one of these guys that knew exactly what he wanted to do when he graduated high school. I went into college, jumped into broadcast journalism, radio and TV news. And by my junior year, I was going, there has got to be more to life than dealing with everyone's tragedies. the the media back then is definitely not the media that it is today. Timothy Ernst (03:28) this whole if it bleeds, it leads mentality. It just it it really wore on. I was asked April before May graduation, where I went to the Western Kentucky University. They asked me, Hey, do you want to come back and work on your master's degree? We feel like you've got a lot of things that you can teach us. We still feel like we have things that we can teach you. and by the way, we'll pay you to teach. Okay. Hey. Timothy Ernst (03:57) Real life or stay in school. I'll stay in school. I very quickly learned why I was there. I found this class in training and organizational development. This is where I say I got into HR backwards. I went in through the OD side of things. learned how to connect. I had used a lot of the knowledge and skill that I had developed in the broadcast field, started doing safety videos, stuff like that. Timothy Ernst (04:27) I ran across Dr. Randy Caps. He was the head of the Department of Communication and Broadcasting. he one of his largest customers that he was working with through his consulting business was the Lowpool Corporation. He asked me if I would work, come and work for him. he took me under, yes, ma'am, the local pool corporation. Dana (04:44) Was that whir whirlpool you said? Okay. Gotcha. Timothy Ernst (04:48) Right Randy took me under his wing. And I I can honestly say that when we look back at my career. Timothy Ernst (04:55) There are individuals that I can say, I am where I am because they made me a better version of me. Randy really lit that flame. so at Whirlpool, after about five years there, moving a 53-year-old manufacturing facility from a management-based organization and a team-bas

    Why HR Needs a Seat at the Table
  4. Sep 27

    Why Men Refuse to Admit They're Struggling

    First aired September 6, 2026 Dennis Bairos oversees more than 29 fitness locations across Texas, and somewhere between the grand openings and the late-night emails, he noticed a pattern: he was the guy who'd rather miss a flight than admit he needed help, the coach whose sideline energy made his own wife ask if he was okay, and the traveler who'd rather squeeze in one more phone call than let 20 free minutes in a rental car go to waste. That pattern became his book, Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It!, a look at the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, and on the sideline of a kid's game that shape how men actually behave, often without them noticing. We talk about why "I got it" might be the most dangerous phrase a man can say, the difference between healthy work ethic and ego-driven burnout, why men go all-in on a hobby and then abandon it completely, and how his wife became the one voice who could see what he couldn't. Watch this episode https://youtu.be/sRsXcIgmVAo In this episode Why "I got it" might be the most dangerous phrase men say, and the ego hiding underneath it How Dennis's competitive, all-or-nothing wiring showed up coaching his kids' T-ball team, and the moment his wife had to tell him he'd gone overboard The real story behind missing a flight because he couldn't stop multitasking, even for a 20-minute drive to the airport Why work ethic can be a genuine skill and a trap at the same time, and how to tell the difference before it becomes burnout What's actually happening when a man goes all-in on a hobby, buys all the gear, and then drops it completely a year later How framing "asking for help" as the next level of leadership, instead of a weakness, changes the way teams operate Why a leader's pace becomes part of their identity, and the hidden cost that pace puts on everyone who reports to them Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dennis Bairos, author of Wired Like This (00:57) His background in high-growth fitness leadership, and how that pace carried over to parenting (03:51) "Stop half-assing it": the moment Dana's own son called out her push, push, push mentality (05:54) Is "I got it" a male trait, or does Dana see it in women too? (08:38) The fear of slowing down: work ethic, ego, and the competition to be first in, last out (12:06) The missed flight: a real-time example of multitasking costing more than it saves (14:55) Why "I got it" might be the most dangerous thing men say (18:25) Reframing asking for help as the next level of leadership, not a weakness (22:13) What his wife saw in his coaching that he couldn't see in himself (24:52) The T-ball season that revealed his coaching had gone overboard (27:13) Why men go all-in on a hobby, then drop it completely (33:22) The airport conversation that changed how he leads: why a leader's pace becomes their identity (36:53) Where to find Dennis, his book, and his Instagram About Dennis Bairos Dennis Bairos is the author of Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It! A husband and father of three, he oversees more than 29 fitness locations across Texas as a senior leader in high-growth, high-volume organizations. He writes about the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, and on the sideline of a kid's game that shape how men actually behave. Connect with Dennis on Instagram or LinkedIn. His book, Wired Like This, is available exclusively on Amazon. Favorite quotes "I got it" might be the most dangerous thing men say. —Dennis Bairos "When your pace becomes your identity, the people who follow you don't just see the results — they see the costs." —Dennis Bairos "You will be more successful, and looked at as someone that's admired a little bit more, because you took that extra step and showed courage to ask for help." —Dennis Bairos Resources mentioned Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It!: Dennis's book, available exclusively on Amazon Dennis on Instagram: @keep.the.edge Dennis Bairos on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript [Dana] (00:01) Welcome, friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Dennis Bairos. Dennis is the author of Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It! He's a husband, a father of three, with a background in senior leadership. He writes about the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, on the sideline of a kid's game, that shape how men actually behave. Dennis, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. [Dennis] (00:47) Yeah, thanks for having me. Guilty — yeah, all of that's correct. I did write that book. Happy to be here, and looking forward to the conversation. [Dana] (00:57) This is fantastic. First of all, I'm interested in a bit of your background. You said you were in senior leadership — since I do a lot of work in the corporate space, helping people with burnout, that was one of the things that drew me to you: the masculine, the male mindset that could possibly trip somebody up at work. I work with high performers, and they say the things that are in your book. So I want to create some space for you to share — what experiences have you had in senior leadership, what have you noticed there, and also with your family, and how these things helped you arrive at writing a book? [Dennis] (01:47) Yeah, so I've been in the fitness industry for quite some time — practically my entire career. Most of the organizations I've been with, including the current one, have been really high-volume, high-growth companies. I currently oversee over 29 locations here in Texas, big-box fitness spaces, so really rampant growth. Most of my career, I've had to move pretty fast — it's nonstop. I've had to work a lot, and most of it is self-induced, just me trying to keep up and trying to be a high performer myself. I think that's natural for me — I'm a natural leader, so I'm always taking probably more ownership than the average person. And that's carried over to my family and my children. I noticed early on that I brought that over to my kids as well. Once they started getting into youth sports, that drive, that push, the long practices, the long hours — it's funny, on a podcast last week I was asked, "do you feel like you're bringing over your own competitiveness from your past as a child competing in sports?" And I thought about it for a second — I don't think so. I don't have this unsettled, failed athletic career I'm trying to settle through my children. I think it's just natural for me to push, to teach kids that if you want to get better at something, you've got to keep practicing, keep moving. I'm kind of an all-or-nothing person. I don't watch many sports, but the ones I do, I'm all in, a diehard fan. That's really how I run my life — it's very much natural. [Dana] (03:51) I love this description. I'm taking notes as you're talking, because I don't want to interrupt you. I'd like to be able to say the same — no, I'm a very competitive person. I get bruises playing musical chairs, and that's not hyperbole — I literally had bruises from my shoulders to my ankles playing musical chairs one year at a fall festival at my church. So I'm thinking of the phrase, "if you're not bleeding, you're not playing." I have three kids as well, and my husband is also a very competitive person. And my youngest son confronted me, appropriately so, one time — I'd said to him one too many times, "stop half-assing it," and he called me on it. I feel like it was appropriate, because I was so in my own head about push, push, push, push, and he'd had it — I'd gone too far. I think that's a lot of what you're talking about in your book, and I want to hear more. Your book is focused on men, and I want to ask — if your experience has been, not necessarily with your daughter, but with coworkers, friends — do you feel like this can be a personality style? Have you run into men who didn't have this "I got it, I'm not going to use GPS, I'm going to figure this out" kind of drive? How much of that do you feel is a male trait, which I think a lot of people would agree with, and have you seen these traits in some of the women you've interacted with as well? [Dennis] (05:54) Certainly. From a female perspective — my wife and I, the dynamic between us — my wife works incredibly hard, works remote, homeschools all three of our children, works out every day, but she's got this self-regulation in her that I don't seem to have, or at least mine doesn't work the same way. She'll come up with reasons to sleep and the need for sleeping, and I come up with reasons not to sleep. Even though I have a fitness-minded background and know the importance of it, for whatever reason, I can't seem to sleep past 6 a.m. on a Saturday. So I see similarities across the board. What's interesting is when I released the book, I started getting calls and texts, or I'd run into people — men who I'd think have completely different personalities from mine. Guys who don't have children, don't participate in sports, aren't ultra-competitive — they'd read my book and tell me, "we're a lot alike." I found tha

    Why Men Refuse to Admit They're Struggling
  5. Sep 6

    Why Your Nervous System Won't Let You Rest

    First aired September 6, 2026 Dr. Charleanea Arellano has spent over 30 years as a clinical psychologist and leadership coach, but the framework she's best known for now, the Embodied Narrative Framework, didn't come from a textbook. It came from putting away laundry five years ago and noticing her own body bracing for impact, for no reason at all, at age 55, after decades of actually being safe. Dr. Arellano built her career studying how high-achieving women lead while carrying nervous systems shaped by trauma, and by the added weight of managing how their race, sexuality, or gender is perceived in the room. As a queer Latina psychologist who didn't come out publicly until 2024, and who spent years often being the only person of color at the table, she's lived the pattern she now helps her clients unwind. We talk about what a chronically activated nervous system actually feels like in the body, the subtle and not-so-subtle ways bias shows up in a room, why "just get a massage" isn't a real fix for high achievers, and the simple, several-times-a-day nervous system reset she teaches instead. Watch this epsiode on Youtube | Subscribe  In this episode Why Dr. Arellano's own healing journey, not her doctorate, is what actually led her to the nervous system work she's known for today What it felt like to be the only person of color in the room for decades, and the subtle versus overt ways bias and microaggressions actually show up How to tell when your nervous system is activated, from bracing for impact to chronic anxiety, and why it starts in the body, not the mind The physical toll of years of unresolved activation: TMJ, chronic headaches, fatigue, digestive issues, and more Why women and men are socialized to handle stress so differently, and what that means for high-achieving women specifically The several-times-a-day nervous system reset Dr. Arellano teaches her clients, and why it only takes seconds Balancing connection and protection with family members who caused real harm, and what it looks like to set a boundary without needing them to understand it Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet psychologist and Embodied Narrative Framework founder Dr. Charleanea Arellano (03:07) Her path into psychology: curiosity about human behavior, a high school class, and a PhD by 29 (05:26) "We are a version of our perfect client": how her own experience as a high achiever managing perceptions shaped her work (07:52) The subtle and overt ways bias shows up in a room, from stopped conversations to backhanded compliments (11:49) Stepping away from the professional world in 2003 after years of navigating belonging and credibility (13:24) What it actually feels like when your nervous system is activated: bracing, anxiety, and the body's fight-or-run response (20:35) The chronic physical toll: TMJ, headaches, fatigue, digestive issues, and chronic pain (24:30) Why women carry stress differently than men, and what that means for high-achieving women (25:57) The several-times-a-day nervous system reset, and why "just get a massage" doesn't work for high achievers (33:36) Her books: the memoir Terrible Gifts and The Last Dance, on intergenerational trauma with her father (37:01) Balancing connection and protection: boundaries with family members who caused real harm (40:06) Where to find Dr. Arellano and her work About Dr. Charleanea Arellano Dr. Charleanea Arellano is a licensed psychologist and Board Certified Life Coach with over 30 years of clinical and leadership experience, and the founder of the Embodied Narrative Framework. A queer Latina psychologist, she helps high-achieving women understand how nervous system patterns, trauma-adapted achievement, and the added stress of managing how their race, sexuality, or gender is perceived shape the way they decide, lead, and relate to success. Her own healing journey, including decades of navigating rooms where she was often the only person of color, informs her work today. She's the author of the forthcoming memoir Terrible Gifts: Finding the Light in the Darkest of Places, and The Last Dance, which explores intergenerational trauma through her relationship with her father. Learn more at Dr. Charleanea's website, or connect with her on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "We are a version of our perfect client." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano "It starts with the nervous system. The nervous system is online before we have any conscious thought about it. It's running the show." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano "This is hygiene. This is another form of hygiene — nervous system hygiene that you do throughout the day." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano, on why a 30-second reset matters as much as brushing your teeth Resources mentioned Dr. Charleanea's website: home to her coaching practice and more on the Embodied Narrative Framework Terrible Gifts: Finding the Light in the Darkest of Places: Dr. Arellano's forthcoming memoir, currently in the publication process The Last Dance: her book on intergenerational trauma, told through her relationship with her father Dr. Charleanea Arellano on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Take the free Work Boundaries Quiz

    Why Your Nervous System Won't Let You Rest
  6. Aug 23

    Why Business Leaders Need Negotiation Skills

    First aired August 23, 2026 Annette Mullin spent 24 years with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, nine of them as a crisis negotiator, eventually leading one of the busiest negotiation teams in the country â€" averaging over 100 call-outs a year. She worked patrol, sexual assault, internal affairs, and homicide, becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, before spending her final years as the department's director of employee wellness in the aftermath of the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting, the largest mass shooting in U.S. history. Now a negotiation instructor and coach at the Black Swan Group, founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss, Annette translates those high-stakes lessons into practical tools for leaders, teams, and individuals navigating pressure, conflict, and growth. We talk about the universal need she discovered in every person she ever negotiated with, why the crime itself is almost always a secondary issue, what "tactical empathy" actually looks like in practice, and why most of us were never actually taught how to listen. Watch this episode Youtube episode link here In this episode How the O.J. Simpson case and a criminalistics program in LA sparked Annette's path into crime scene investigation, and why she chose Las Vegas over LAPD Joining LVMPD's crisis negotiation team, and what made Las Vegas's team one of the busiest in the country Becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, and the advice that helped her navigate a male-dominated field without making it about gender Why removing assumptions, and getting curious instead of judgmental, changed how she worked with people in crisis The universal need Annette discovered every person in crisis shares, no matter how different the circumstances Why the crime itself is almost always a secondary issue, and what's usually driving it underneath How Chris Voss's "tactical empathy" model, from Never Split the Difference, turns negotiation into collaboration instead of a tug-of-war The five levels of listening Black Swan teaches, and why most of us are trained to listen to respond instead of to understand Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet retired LVMPD crisis negotiator Annette Mullin (02:23) From the East Coast to Las Vegas: the O.J. Simpson case and her path into crime scene investigation (04:42) Joining the crisis negotiation team, and Las Vegas's brutal call-out numbers (06:36) Retiring after serving as director of employee wellness following the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting (08:15) What drew her to law enforcement as a kid, from Nancy Drew to Quincy, M.E. (10:10) Navigating gender in a male-dominated field, and becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant (14:00) Removing assumptions: why curiosity beats judgment when someone has "a chip on their shoulder" (16:52) The universal need every person in crisis shares, and why that surprised her most (20:05) Why the crime is almost always the secondary issue (24:28) From hostage negotiation to the boardroom: Chris Voss, Black Swan Group, and tactical empathy (28:43) The biggest obstacle to listening, and the five levels of listening Black Swan teaches (31:50) The number one struggle business leaders bring to her, and why practicing in "low stakes" moments matters (34:12) Where to find Annette, Black Swan Group, and the new book Fight Less, Win More About Annette Mullin Annette Mullin is a retired Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department leader with 24 years of law enforcement experience, including nine years as a crisis negotiator and eventual leader of LVMPD's crisis negotiation team, one of the busiest in the country. Over her career she worked patrol, community policing, sexual assault, internal affairs, and homicide, becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, before serving as the department's director of employee wellness in the aftermath of the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting. Now a negotiation instructor and coach at the Black Swan Group, founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss, Annette teaches the principles behind Never Split the Difference, including tactical empathy, to leaders, teams, and individuals navigating pressure and conflict in business and life. Learn more at the Black Swan Group, or connect with Annette on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "There is a universal need for every person to be heard, to be seen, and to be understood."  "Not everybody is like you. Removing assumptions was really key, let them show you or tell you."  "If I read a book about working out every week but never lift a weight, I can't expect to see anything different."  Resources mentioned Black Swan Group: negotiation training founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss: the book that brings hostage-negotiation principles like tactical empathy into business and everyday life Fight Less, Win More: Chris Voss's newest book, adapting those same skills for personal relationships Annette Mullin on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard.

  7. Aug 16

    Why Comedy Might Be the Best Medicine For Mental Health

    First aired August 16, 2026 For over a decade, Dave Mowry couldn't get out of bed, couldn't shower, and couldn't walk to his own mailbox without waiting until dark so a neighbor wouldn't catch the look in his eyes. In 1994, a psychotic break sent the successful businessman and family man into a depression so deep it cost him his house, his career, and 14 years he calls his "lost years." He slept in his clothes for months at a time. At parties, he'd stand against the wall and pray no one came over to talk to him. Then, at his wife's urging, he walked into a stand-up comedy class for people living with mental illness, and by the second session, something shifted: he started looking for the joke inside the pain. Dave is now a bestselling author, a blogger with over a million reads, a peer support specialist, and, in his own words, "a comic who shatters stigma one joke at a time." We get into what clinical depression actually feels like from the inside, why his wife is the true hero of his story, how a ten-week comedy class became group therapy in disguise, the gentle suicide joke that helped save a young man's life, and why people in the mental health field need to stop trying to "protect" the very people they're meant to be supporting. Watch this episode In this episode Why a 1994 psychotic break sent a successful businessman into 14 "lost years" of homelessness and depression What clinical depression actually feels like: the showers he couldn't take, the mailbox trips timed for after dark, and the panic attacks that came out of nowhere Why "just do something small," like sitting in a different chair, was enough to keep Dave from getting stuck in hopelessness What family members need to understand about mental illness, and how Dave's wife became "the hero of his story" How a NAMI stand-up comedy class turned Dave's pain into laugh-out-loud jokes, and eventually a sold-out show at Helium Comedy Club Dave's gentle suicide joke, why it works, and the night it helped save a young man's life Why people in the helping professions need to stop trying to "save" people with mental illness and start supporting them instead Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet comic and mental health advocate Dave Mowry (01:16) The 1994 psychotic break, and the 14 "lost years" that followed (03:56) What clinical depression actually feels like: showers, blending into the wall, panic attacks (07:10) The exhausting weight of "just getting out of bed" (08:41) Don't get stuck: the small, deliberate choices that kept hope alive (10:15) What family members need to understand: it's not a moral failing (11:26) Dave's wife, the true hero of his story (14:34) Finding NAMI's stand-up comedy class, and the moment humor clicked (17:59) Selling out Helium Comedy Club, and becoming "a thing" (19:51) Blogging, "OMG, that's me," and shattering stigma one joke at a time (25:32) Teaching comedy: the setup, the punchline, and getting students to open up (26:10) Dave's gentle suicide joke, and the night it helped save a life (32:42) Boundaries, mania, and giving himself permission to say no (37:25) Where to find Dave, his books, and how to reach him About Dave Mowry Dave Mowry is a bestselling author, blogger, and stand-up comic who shatters stigma one joke at a time. After a 1994 psychotic break led to 14 "lost years" of severe depression, homelessness, and hospitalization, Dave found his way back through NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and a stand-up comedy class for people living with mental illness. He went on to sell out Portland's Helium Comedy Club, teach comedy classes to people living with mental illness, and become a peer support specialist. He's the author of OMG, That's Me! and Healing with Humor, and his blog for bphope.com has been read over a million times. Learn more and get in touch at Dave's website, or reach him directly at davemowry2@gmail.com. Favorite quotes "It's not a moral failing. It's a medical condition." —Dave Mowry "Afterwards, I called my wife for help. She said, 'There are more pills under the sink.'" —Dave Mowry, on the gentle suicide joke that's helped save lives "We don't need to be saved. Support us and all that, but don't try to save us. We don't need it." —Dave Mowry Resources mentioned Dave's website: home to his books and a contact form OMG, That's Me!: Dave's bestselling book on what it's really like to live with a mental illness, available on Amazon and Kindle Healing with Humor: Dave's newest book, telling the story of six comedy-class students and their transformation NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness): the organization that connected Dave to the comedy class that changed his life Helium Comedy Club (Portland): where Dave's class sold out a 185-seat show Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with,

    Why Comedy Might Be the Best Medicine For Mental Health
4.9
out of 5
42 Ratings

About

Phoenix and Flame is a podcast by Dana Skaggs, M.A. She is called the "Queen of Boundaries" as well as the "Sassy Psychotherapist." Her podcast is about going From Ash to Flight on the Wings of Boundaries. If you feel alone in your struggle, check out the candid interviews with inspiring guests. You'll hear their authentic journey through struggle, what helped them, what hurt them, and how they finally rose from the ashes. Dana asks direct, thought-provoking questions infused with snarky humor and therapeutic commentary, designed so her listeners will take away useful and applicable rubber-meets-the-road coping strategies.

You Might Also Like