Let's talk Transformation : The business leaders podcast

Suzie Lewis
  • 5.0 (1)
  • MANAGEMENT
  • UPDATED SEMIMONTHLY

"Let's talk Transformation" is a podcast for busy yet curious people who want to stay connected. Bite sized chunks of thoughts and ideas on transformation and change to inspire and inform you - be it about digital, culture, innovation, change or leadership... ! Connect with us to listen to dynamic and curious conversations about transformation.

  1. Transforming conversations for change with Jeff Wetherhold

    1D AGO

    Transforming conversations for change with Jeff Wetherhold

    "The way we talk about change is more important than how we plan it.." 88% of organizational change efforts fail to produce lasting results. What if the solution isn’t a new framework, but a new conversation? This episode challenges leaders to reconsider why change efforts fail, pointing to a surprising culprit: a lack of listening and communication. Jeff and I explore how shifting our approach to conversations can transform outcomes and build stronger, more adaptive organisations. We literally change the conversation, digging into the fact that individuals are often ambivalent about change, possessing both reasons to accept it and reasons to hesitate. This ambivalence is not fixed but fluid, and can be navigated intentionally Motivational interviewing (MI), originally developed in clinical psychology, provides a framework for guiding individuals toward change they cannot be compelled to make. Motivational Interviewing teaches us to listen for “change talk” and “sustain talk” — people’s own reasons for and against change. This deep listening reveals the raw ingredients for productive dialogue, moving beyond fixed attitudes to address underlying concerns. It’s about meeting people where they are, acknowledging their ambivalence, and helping them clarify their own path forward. This approach doesn’t dismiss models; it feeds them the human insights they need to succeed. How do you differentiate between true resistance and genuine hesitation in your teams? The main insights you'll get from this episode are : Conversations about change need to be front and centre in organisations – organisational change requires communication, commitment and engagement, making it easy to find excuses not to undertake it.Failed organisational change comes at enormous cost, making successful organisational change essential for the bottom line - everyone is ambivalent about change, but leaders often interpret hesitation as resistance.Change management has unhelpfully popularised the word ‘resistance’, yet attitudes towards change are not fixed - the many reasons why people are for or against change fluctuate; tweaking this balance can move the needle towards change.‘Resistance’ attributes intention without discretion or discernment, whereas it might be due to a lack of understanding or training - calling people resistant is self-fulfilling; likewise silence does not always signify defiance.Motivational interviewing (MI) for organisational change can be defined as a set of conversational tools and skills for helping people move towards change that you can’t make for them – this makes it relatable and teachable.Understanding how to listen differently, speak differently, and help build belief in different modes of communication means that small steps can be interleaved with immediate effect (MI-inspired microskills).Learning to listen for change talk (someone’s own language of change) and sustain talk (someone’s own language against change) brings to light the ‘raw ingredients’ for a different kind of conversation.Frameworks and models (i.e. planning) for organisational change don’t work, are unsustainably expensive and alienate staff; ‘all models are wrong, some are useful’ is true if they are used consistently.span class="ql-ui"...

    33 min
  2. Relational leadership for sustainable impact with Celine Schillinger

    DEC 22

    Relational leadership for sustainable impact with Celine Schillinger

    "Leadership is a collective ability. It’s not an individual skill set." Now more than ever this phrase rings true for leadership in teams, organisations and society as a whole. The inherited leadership model is destructive, not productive in today's interconnected world. Never has it been more important to challenge the status quo, to unlearn old formatting and build new patterns so that organisations and teams can thrive. The best way to avoid risk is to actually do nothing.- Celine's observation highlights a critical issue in modern leadership. Many organizations inadvertently foster environments where inaction is safer than innovation. I see this firsthand frequently. Leaders, fearing blame for mistakes, often maintain the status quo. This “risk of doing versus risk of not doing” dynamic stifles creativity and energy. We need leaders to challenge this complacency. Rather than trying to be the best, leaders should challenge themselves ethically and morally; pursue human pastimes to maintain emotional and creative ability; hold space to think and feel; and improve the quality of relationships with their people and between people - leadership is a collective ability, not an individual pursuit. Celine shares her insights and experience from working with leaders all over the globe and from researching her book : Dare to Unlead. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : The inherited leadership model is destructive, not productive: it is evident in the corporate world that leadership has been transformed into an industry, making it difficult to progress (business- and human-wise) in large, industrialised companies.Toxic patterns are reproduced, resulting in a male-dominated, ego-drive, territory-obsessed culture with the heavy infrastructure of prediction and control that is slow, outdated, inefficient, and comes at enormous personal, social and planetary cost.Red flags often come in the form of multiple small indications, such as cultural, ethnic, and gender homogeneity at decision-making level; a prevalence of no vs yes; and difficulties driving innovative projects forwards because leaders are risk averse.A lack of accountability for not doing the right/wrong thing leads to complacency and ‘yes’ people who maintain the status quo, leaving no room for new blood or change, which in turn produces stagnant energy that is directed into negative politics.In the workplace, we have to be with people we haven’t chosen or who aren’t like us, giving us an opportunity to develop our diversity muscle in terms of dealing with different opinions, worldviews, etc. against a clear mandate of making the business work.Leadership is about enabling something productive; creating value across the board; and mobilising all talent - energy and power are omnipresent and can be either a constraint or an opportunity, depending on the mindset.Familiar power structures are still honoured, e.g. one knowledgeable expert has the right to overrule all other opinions, but they are no longer applicable given that managers now are often less knowledgeable than their direct reports.Knowledge and relational work has changed the foundations of old decision-making systems, with more agility and diversity required - leaders must stop seeing themselves as the centre/top of the system, and rather as an

    48 min
  3. Work different - How to Win with People in the Age of AI with Kate Bravery

    DEC 15

    Work different - How to Win with People in the Age of AI with Kate Bravery

    "If my top talent walked out tomorrow, or AI shook things up overnight, would I still know how to win with people ?" This is the question Kate and I discuss - the urgent need to rewire work and change the way we view talent, skills and the workplace. One of the shifts is moving from viewing individuals as mere “employees” to recognising them as “contributors.” This change fosters a sense of agency within any organizational system. The topic of agency highlights a crucial shift: workers have agency to choose and the long time loyalty contracts are gone. People, particularly the younger generations now prioritize health benefits, time off, and flexible working over pay raises. This signifies a deeper desire for lifestyle integration and genuine care from employers. It’s about feeling valued for one’s skills from day one, having a voice, and ensuring long-term employability, especially with AI on the horizon. If our identity is tied to what we know, how do we adapt when AI “knows more”? Historically, the more people got used to new tech, the less anxious they became. But with AI, it’s the opposite! The closer people get, the more nervous they feel. This isn’t just about understanding the tech; it’s about our identity and status tied to what we know versus what we’re willing to learn. This paradox calls for a fundamental shift: from being “know-it-alls” to “learn-it-alls.” Leaders must foster environments where learning and adaptability are paramount, rather than relying solely on existing expertise. If you had the opportunity to redesign work in this department how would you do it differently ? The insights you'll get from this episode are : -      It is people, not technology, who breathe life into businesses and keep them competitive; the pressure businesses are under puts a premium on talent and GenAI is increasing the gap between average and high-performing employees. -      Hiring, development and promotion must be right for a business to unlock opportunities, but workers have more options than ever before - Gen Z feel work is broken and the lift provided by augmented AI does not fix what is broken. -      The proximity paradox, i.e. the nearer people get to AI, the more nervous they are about it, is the opposite of past experiences with tech – if people are worried about losing their jobs and using AI, they will not innovate and look forward. -      This paradox is also a human paradox – GenAI provides no reassurance as it is always changing and learning, which is at odds with a system that values knowing over learning: know-it-all v learn-it-all is a threat to identity and status. -      Companies must care about guiding employees so that they stay relevant, and managers must have honest conversations with employees about how AI will change their jobs – this may well involve not having all the answers. -      The employee turnover rate is driven by the labour market and HR must know what the company’s reputation is externally to prevent the top talent from leaving in a flexible and fluid talent supply – motivation is key here. -      More agility in the workforce requires intentional work redesign - fixed v flex v fully flow roles - to solve real human problems and supply gaps through e.g. offshoring, right-shoring, making use of global capacity centres. -      Leaders must be able to work across temporal, digital, cultural and behavioural boundaries, and across generations, i.e. manage paradox, sense markets and people, have a global mindset, and embrace DE&I. -      Upskilling is crucial, as skills are the real

    39 min
  4. Constrained Independence : Square system transformation with Matthew Person

    DEC 8

    Constrained Independence : Square system transformation with Matthew Person

    “Most organisations don’t fail through lack of strategy, but because the strategy never reaches the front line.”  How do we ensure that our organisational strategy truly reaches the front line of operations, preventing it from remaining solely at the board level? Matt & I delve into this critical challenge facing leaders today. We uncover how to bridge this gap, ensuring your strategic vision translates into frontline execution and sustained growth. The tension between “explore” (innovation) and “exploit” (business as usual) is a constant balancing act for organisations. and we need to inherently foster both. But how ?  The Square management system provides an architecture for leaders to scale their culture without stifling innovation, a critical balance for companies. Matt shares his journey, from transforming underperforming sports franchises to investment banking and corporate development, where he observed how different companies created or captured value. He realised the importance of intentional organisational design when asked how to maintain culture across multiple offices and states, leading to the development of his book and approach. “square” does not imply a rigid, binary system but represents a dynamic space for culture. He defines good culture as the alignment between an individual’s perceptions, beliefs, and values and the company’s systems and procedures. The “square” changes in size and shape depending on the company’s needs. Discover the four "I"s—Identity, Instruction, Intercommunication, and Information Feedback—that form the foundation of an effective organizational design. We discuss how leaders can utilize this system not just as a culture tool, but as a comprehensive operating framework, especially vital during M&A integrations or major reorganizations.  How do you balance freedom for innovation with the need for operational consistency in your organization ? The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Regardless of sector, there are commonalities in terms of workplace cultures and thriving, i.e. understanding where value lies and how to create or capture it - the square management system is an architecture for leaders to scale culture without suffocating innovation. -      The Culture of Alignment is a philosophical exercise around how to run a company, a model for operationalising strategies into tactics, as strategy often stays at the top, without penetrating the front line. -      Rather than copying what others have done, it offers a way to intentionally structure a high-performing organisation, with direct tools to provide for growth and scale - not a blueprint, but an invitation to create a bespoke model. -      The system factors in both alignment and flexibility by understanding what the culture is and intentionally designing for it: the culture is the square, but the size of the square and the walls can change. -      The square comprises: identity (do customers and staff know what we stand for), instruction (expectation for performance standard across the organisation), intercommunication (flow of information across the company), information feedback (data and information on the company and employees). -      The fifth i in the middle of the square is constrained independence (the known degree to which an employee can action their own ideas) = culture; a lack of constraint leads to mini squares = chaos. -      Most companies fall short in one area: identity deviation erodes trust; instruction deviation leads to a varying standard of...

    40 min
  5. Curiosity based transformation with Julie Pham

    DEC 1

    Curiosity based transformation with Julie Pham

    "Think about how stretchy you are and what you accept. Where are your breaking points?" One particularly striking data point: 70% of people face obstacles asking questions at work.  This statistic underscores a core issue. Curiosity is often cited as a value, yet many environments make it unsafe to ask for clarification or challenge ideas. Fear of looking incompetent, challenging authority, or slowing down progress often silences valuable input. Julie and I discuss how curiosity, respect, and self-awareness can transform organisational life. We explore practical strategies for leaders to foster psychological safety and inclusive collaboration, using Julie's own unique journey and the powerful “Seven Forms of Respect” framework for guidance. We often talk about “soft skills” in organisations, but as teams become more global and complexity increases, these skills are anything but soft. They’re foundational. We discover a refreshing perspective to curiosity, respect, and self-awareness, showing us how to make these invisible dynamics tangible and actionable. This in turn allows leaders to shift from just “knowing” to truly “learning” — a real leadership superpower in our changing world. Recognising your “rubber band” stretchiness - Understand personal boundaries and breaking points, and communicate them to others is also key as it prevents snapping and strengthens relationships. This episode offers key insights into navigating complex team dynamics and maintaining a learning mindset in high-pressure environments. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Being a self-taught organisational development consultant taught the critical value of sharing resources and building communities in times of crisis; there is tension and friction in any community but making the invisible relational dynamics tangible helps to understand them. -      When it comes to learning from other people, curiosity and self-assessment are required for the shift from knowing to learning, and to decode the different dynamics; curiosity requires questions, but do people feel safe enough to ask questions? -      Internal narrative and cultural formatting influence communication - we are all members of multiple cultures, communities and identities simultaneously, and inward curiosity is a prerequisite: What matters to me? -      Our multiple identities mean that we must slow down and reflect to enable good decisions to be made from a place of curiosity; leadership rituals (e.g. meeting facilitator rotation) can help teams maintain curiosity when under pressure, create empathy and force listening. -      Using the seven forms of respect as a framework for collaboration helps understand how respect is relative, dynamic, subjective and contradictory: Procedure, Punctuality, Information, Candor, Consideration, Acknowledgement, Attention. -      A useful analogy here is with language: the organisational level represents the national language; departments represent dialects; and the individual is represented by their own language – we all need to be multilingual. -      Intercultural working results in unclear messages, which lead to perpetuated actions and unmet expectations that were never made explicit - a team must understand what respect means to them, not by guessing, but by asking others. -      Inward curiosity is about self-reflection and admitting what challenges us and what our expectations are – this can be difficult to acknowledge given that it can be perceived as a challenge to our identity. -      Curiosity in practice means approaching...

    44 min
  6. In-formalising Transformation with Hilton Barbour

    NOV 24

    In-formalising Transformation with Hilton Barbour

    "it’s faster to implement a piece of technology than it is to get 10,000 people to stop doing what they’ve been doing for a decade and start to do new things and work in new ways" Hilton and I unpack the hidden dynamics of organizational change, and the influence of informal power dynamics on transformation. Most change programs falter, not due to strategy, but because leaders often overlook the invisible power of trust and connection networks. Amidst the 'talent' lists and org charts, do you know where your powerful influencers are in your organisation ? Hilton shares his powerful “people, not pixels” philosophy, explaining how technology investments frequently overshadow the critical human element. It is difficult to budget for, and prioritise, translating a ‘people not pixels’ approach into culture change; similar to what we are finding with AI today, digital transformation stands and falls with the people and the culture of an organisation, not the technology. We also dive into the “3% rule" from Innoviser, exploring how identifying and activating informal power networks can create significant momentum and surface untapped potential and highlight the 'key influencers' in your organisation. This conversation challenges traditional views of leadership and offers a fresh perspective on cultivating a resilient, adaptable culture. Discover how to transform your approach to change by understanding the relational and emotional infrastructure that truly drives performance. Learn why acknowledging emotions and mapping your organisation’s real connections are non-negotiable for future success. Look at where and how you can unlock potential in your teams and organisations. How can you use data differently to understand the potential of your organisation ? The main insights you'll get from this episode are : o  C-suite is under such immense pressure that people are overlooked and investment is made in technology, which becomes an efficiency tool that is quicker to implement and yield results than changing people’s habits. o  We ignore previous failures and neglect to learn lessons, yet without an enthusiastic commitment of the culture to change, strategy will flounder and adoption will slow – the vital balancing act is to engage humans proactively: tech + humans, not tech v humans. o  The invisible part of culture is where it has been made amorphous and ambiguous, so that it is seen as the ‘soft’, human-related aspect of change when it is actually the most challenging aspect – to motivate, entice and energise others. o  How humans behave and make decisions within an organisation is important because of how we interact with each other across ecosystems – the many decisions that are made (or not made) on a daily basis must align with the strategy. o  Culture can be defined as the worst behaviour tolerated by management - this is pivotal to sustainable transformation because of the importance of the relational and emotional infrastructure when building culture and performance. o  Functioning informal power networks and humanly - not digitally - connected organisations are built on the basic tenets of humanity, i.e. trust, advocacy, commitment and energy, which in turn are reliant on relationships as the currency of systems. o  In terms of influence, leadership impact involves many other parties on the edges who build communities, create momentum, and unlock hidden potential (cf. Innovisor’s rule that 3% of employees drive 90% of change in an organisation). o  The inherently human approach of organisational network analysis to define the connectors in the organisation enables leaders to unlock potential by engaging those people who provide the ideas and the energy and invite trust. o  Agency is diluted by a lack of clear accountability – a more...

    41 min
  7. Between you and AI with Andrea Iorio

    NOV 10

    Between you and AI with Andrea Iorio

    "The future won’t belong to humans or machines, but to those who master the hybrid skill set combining AI literacy and human literacy." The future of work is not about humans versus machines. Instead, it belongs to those who master a unique hybrid skill set. This blend combines AI literacy with essential human capabilities. Literacy in today's world lies in the ability to learn, unlearn and relearn - this has never been more true as it is in today's partnership with Agentic AI. Andréa and I delve into the what these combined forces could look like, and how to build the framework for operational implementation. Digital transformation requires a hybrid skill set that fulfils the three different facets of transformation (cognitive, behavioural and emotional), which in turn align with the aspects of workplace culture (how we think, act and interact). We discuss how to build a culture of trust in AI, essential for successful collaboration and highlight a critical distinction : humans interpret data semantically, giving it meaning and purpose, while AI processes it syntactically, based on patterns and probabilities. This difference impacts decision-making and ethical considerations.  Leaders of the future must be honest about and clearly see what tasks should be augmented using AI and how the time saved should be spent, i.e. what does AI do best now and, consequently, what should humans do better? How are you ensuring that you, your teams & your organisation are developing the skills necessary to complement AI’s analytical power and drive results together. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Democratising access to a hybrid skill set means defining how to navigate the ‘fear vs. opportunity’ narrative of human potential in a world of AI, harking back to ‘man vs. machine’ as opposed to embracing a ‘man with machine’ approach. -      Digital transformation requires a hybrid skill set that fulfils the three different facets of transformation (cognitive, behavioural and emotional), which in turn align with the aspects of workplace culture (how we think, act and interact). -      The cognitive transformation element, i.e. decision-making, is the most problematic for leaders as humans still believe in the old way of making decisions; leaders are most exposed to this risk due to their past successes. -      In the words of Rasmus Hougaard, “ego is the worst enemy of leadership” and hampers effective decision-making - AI makes new things possible and humans are taken aback by the exponential rate at which we must learn and unlearn. -      Prompting, data sense-making and re-perception mean that we need to craft better input for AI but also ask humans better questions - unexpected questions open our minds to novelty and creativity. -      Our inherited educational model rewards good answers, not good questions, yet this stifles creativity and re-perception; the latter goes against the human (and educational) grain, but AI tools represent a good sparring partner. -      Rather than a product-centric approach, we are now called upon to make sense of data, but AI and humans interpret data differently: humans interpret it semantically (adding their own perspective); AI interprets it syntactically (as tokens without understanding meaning). -      The problem inherent to AI is that it does not understand or give meaning to its decisions and has no conscience about the action taken - humans must have responsibility for giving data meaning and not outsource this to AI. -      AI learns on a binary basis without context; tasks that are too demanding...

    46 min
  8. Elevate Your Human Leadership with AI with Rasmus Hougaard

    OCT 27

    Elevate Your Human Leadership with AI with Rasmus Hougaard

    "Any AI you use today will be the worst AI you will use. You need to really learn how to challenge AI and learn how to have AI challenge you." Rasmus and I delve into the research and questions of how leaders can embrace AI to become more human in their leadership, and how can this accompany them on the journey of navigating uncertainty and a more transactional workplace. Currently less than 20% of leaders are ready for AI, despite it being a strategic necessity – it is an uncomfortable prospect that AI will take our jobs, but we can counter this by embracing AI and being better human leaders. AI democratises knowledge, strategic thinking and decision-making - it will flatten organisations and leaders must embrace this, aiming to embody gratitude, humility and selflessness. This shift from ego to eco, and from doing to being is the key to leveraging what AI can enable in our humanity. Leaders must guard against cognitive laziness and human disconnection caused by AI, and actively challenge its outputs to ensure true human engagement. AI surpasses humans in information access and processing speed, making it unwise for humans to compete in those areas. Instead, leaders should focus on what AI cannot replicate : Awareness involves understanding oneself, emotions, biases, and others. Wisdom is the ability to ask good discerning questions, distinct from AI’s knowledge. Compassion stems from a true intention to support & connect on a human level, which AI lacks despite its ability to process emotional data. Rasmus shares his research and insights from his latest book 'more human' and from working with leaders and companies across the globe on how to create more human centred leadership in today's workplace. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      AI augmented leadership requires three core competencies of awareness, wisdom and compassion: AI will have more information and faster processing power than any human brain but cannot be completely human. -      AI can help make us more aware if we use it as a sparring partner, providing it with everything there is to know about us to help us make decisions based on multiple different perspectives - context and mindset are vital here. -      Our neuroanatomy is uniquely human in that we perceive, discern, then respond (sentience). In terms of leadership, this translates to awareness (of biases, emotions and systems), discernment (wisdom not knowledge) and compassion. -      We are formatted to ‘do’, but AI requires us to react using our soft skills and human traits - being human at work is the blueprint for future leadership, driven moreover by purpose. -      It is the choice of every individual leader to ask not just what AI can do for me, but also to me: AI makes us cognitively lazy given that it is confidently both wrong and right - we must not fall prey to accepting its output without question. -      AI also has huge user bias – we must challenge it and have it challenge us, deploying mental hygiene when engaging with AI to make us more aware, wise and compassionate, fostering a mindset of equanimity. -      Having an AI proxy carries the risk of putting information in the hands of a tech firm, but once it has all the requisite information, it can provide very helpful answers in the form of outside-in views with psychometrics, etc. -      Asking AI for compassion-based responses highlights blind spots and gives actionable feedback to push us back into human compassion and awareness, e.g. asking for the worst possible outcomes of a potential decision. -      The workplace...

    32 min
See All (151)

Ratings & Reviews

About

"Let's talk Transformation" is a podcast for busy yet curious people who want to stay connected. Bite sized chunks of thoughts and ideas on transformation and change to inspire and inform you - be it about digital, culture, innovation, change or leadership... ! Connect with us to listen to dynamic and curious conversations about transformation.

Information