B2B Marketers on a Mission

EINBLICK
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On this podcast, we’re on a mission – to change and disrupt the way people think about B2B marketing one insightful conversation at a time. Get inspiration from interviews with B2B marketers and industry experts who share their stories, achievements, thoughts on trending topics, and give B2B marketing tips and recommendations. This show is hosted by Christian Klepp, Co-founder of EINBLICK Consulting.

  1. 6D AGO

    How Rethinking Paid Media Can Drive More Efficient, Sustainable B2B Growth

    How Rethinking Paid Media Can Drive More Efficient, Sustainable B2B Growth In this competitive environment, the fundamentals of effective B2B marketing are more crucial than ever, yet many brands are losing sight of them. As platforms become more inundated with noise, organizations are increasingly over-investing in paid media while under-investing in the strategic groundwork that makes paid campaigns perform. This imbalance leads to wasted spend, mixed messages, and weaker results, just as B2B audiences are becoming more selective. So, how can marketing leaders leverage paid media to drive more efficient, sustainable B2B growth? That’s why we’re talking to Andrea Ness (Head of Media, ddm marketing + communications), who shares her expertise on how rethinking paid media can drive more efficient, sustainable B2B growth. During our conversation, Andrea emphasized the importance of integrating paid media with owned and earned media to creative a holistic customer journey. She stressed that B2B paid media should amplify strong messaging rather than being the sole focus of a marketing campaign. With sales cycles often lasting 6-18 months, Andrea highlighted the need for consistent messaging across all channels and the importance of building long-term trust. She also underscored the significance of long-lasting assets such as website and thought leadership for sustainable ROI. Andrea advocated for a strategic approach to measurement, leveraging full-funnel metrics that go beyond immediate conversions to capture the true impact of a brand’s digital presence. https://youtu.be/HdpEGsfjxuI Topics discussed in episode: [00:00] Why a weak narrative just means broadcasting confusion at scale  [02:44] Why teams skip to conversions and why it backfires in 6–18 month buying cycles  [05:45] The problem found when sales, PR, web, and leadership aren’t saying the same thing  [09:19] How B2B buyer behavior has changed, and why sales calls are the last resort  [13:24] How to reframe brand investment in language leadership buys into  [17:09] The three paid media pitfalls every B2B marketer must avoid [21:59] Why foundational messaging lifts every channel, and how to evolve it  [24:59] Demystifying owned, earned, and paid media [32:11] Long-lasting assets vs. short-term ads: SEO, thought leadership, and repurposed content that compound  [34:48] Brand lift studies, return visitors, time on site, and the metrics that prove full-funnel progress  [37:56] Why you must build the house before you turn on the amplifier Companies and links mentioned: Andrea Ness on LinkedIn  ddm marketing + communications   Transcript Andrea Ness, Christian Klepp Andrea Ness  00:00 People usually don’t convert on the first ad exposure that they see. So you really, really do want to make sure that there are so many other ways that they can get to that information. Advertising helps. But you know, like, like, if you look at you know what your journey is. And really, it’s a great exercise if you don’t have a customer journey, like, laid out on paper and really, and looking at that, not just for paid media channels, but also, you know, like, here’s what we’re doing, foundational like that owned media, you know. And then here’s what you know earned media is doing that they’re really pushing out. And here’s their focus. Christian Klepp  00:31 The fundamentals of effective B2B Marketing have not changed, but in 2026 many brands are losing sight of them as platforms become more crowded and ad costs continue to rise, organizations are increasingly over investing in paid media while under investing in the strategic groundwork that makes paid campaigns perform. This imbalance leads to wasted spend mixed messages and weaker results, just as audiences are becoming more selective. So how can B2B Marketers leverage paid media to drive more efficient, sustainable growth? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Andrea Ness, who will be answering this question. She’s the head of media at DDM Marketing and Communications, where she helps drive digital marketing initiatives for B2B organizations, tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Andrea Ness, welcome to the show. Andrea Ness  01:29 Very good to be here. Christian Klepp  01:30 Really good to have you on. I mean, you know, we’ve, we’ve had such a great free interview conversation where we, we laughed so much about all these random topics, and that was already, like, very telling of, like, what’s to come. But I’m, I’m really looking forward to this conversation. It’s, it’s a very pertinent one. I think it’s something that B2B marketing teams really need to be paying attention to as they move forward. At the time of this recording, at the beginning of 2026 All right, so let’s, let’s jump right in and start the interview. So, Andrea, like for you’re on a mission, I would say, to help B2B companies deliver high impact marketing campaigns that drive measurable results. For this conversation, I’d like to zero in on the topic of how rethinking the role of paid media can drive more efficient, sustainable growth. So I’d like to kick off the conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them, right? So question number one, why do you think paid media should function as an extension of brand trust, rather than the centerpiece of a marketing strategy? And the follow up question is, where do you see many B2B Marketing Teams struggle. Andrea Ness  02:44 All right, I will start with round one, but with the first one, usually, when someone hears media campaign, they go straight to, like the media teams and like going to tactics where, like, where we really want to back up and just say, you know, paid media works as it to amplify the message that you’re trying to put out there, not to create the message. So if you don’t have that, those strong messaging and those components in place, or what we like to say at your house in order, you know, like we’re not going to be the best at creating the message, but only taking really resonating messaging and putting it out to the world. So it we call paid media more like a distribution engine. And it’s not the message itself, you know, and it’s also, you know, to really, really underline brand narrative is, if their your brand narrative isn’t strong, your paid media just amplifies people to get confused. One of the things that we like to talk about with clients is that audiences see 1000s of messages every day, you know. So like, even if we might be in the right channels, you know, with everyone else, if it doesn’t resonate, if it doesn’t align, you know, if it doesn’t connect and strong, then they’re just trying to pass it by with hundreds and 1000s of others. So really, really, what is that message component? What are you trying to tell them? When are you trying to tell them that? And then we just use paid media, the tactics for paid media, just to make sure that we’re amplifying that message to the right people. So that’s with your first question, what your second one was, Christian Klepp  04:14 Where do you see a lot of based on based on that, like, where do you see a lot of B2B marketing teams struggle? Andrea Ness  04:20 So one of the things we keep on we keep on hearing over and over again, because again, you know, I know clients like, really like, their focus on revenue. They’re focused on the end goal. But you know, when we hear a lot of times, when we hear like we need, you know, consistently, more leads, more conversions, more revenue. We got to go straight to the end when what we’re thinking about like, and what we have to bring clients back to is like, what is that customer journey? And, you know, like for us to be able to move them through the funnel, we can’t just go straight to the end and asking them to do something when they don’t even have that trust, or they’re not even, you know, in the consideration journey yet. You know, so with with B2B, especially like consumers, sometimes it’s a quicker side cycle. But with B2B, you know that your cycles are could be like six to 18 months, even longer. So if you’re not talking to them throughout each of the journey and building that trust along the way, you know we’re going to be losing them if you go straight to like, you know, do this and, you know, give us your contact information. We learned, especially now, especially with new generations of people. They don’t like always. Like filling out forms. They like to do their own research in many different ways. And if you’re not there in each of those moments as they’re like, going through and building that trust, wherever they’re going to get those information points, you know, just going out and saying, like, do this now. Deadline approaching, you know, like you’re gonna they’re not going to be ready to do the end the end goal. So, Christian Klepp  05:43 Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, Andrea Ness  05:45 Another thing that we notice is more like the fragmented, like the messaging so, and it’s just, you know, we that’s why we really, really hone in on integrated marketing. Because it really is, if we’re ready, if we have our key messages in place. It’s not just what the ads should say. It’s in every form of their communications. And sometimes people don’t think that way, because businesses are in their different teams. They have their sales team, they’re their PR team and communications team, you know, they have, you know, their web team. They have, you know, like all these other teams. But when, when we are ready to say these are going to be our key messages we’re going to hit out there. We have to make sure that all of these teams are aligned and the messaging resonates. So

    41 min

  2. MAR 18

    How to Leverage Brand Differentiation for Massive B2B Growth

    How to Leverage Brand Differentiation for Massive B2B Growth In the increasingly competitive and saturated world of B2B SaaS and tech, clear brand differentiation and strategic positioning are the most overlooked levers for sustainable growth. While often dismissed, these are critical components in helping companies directly shorten sales cycles and lower their customer acquisition costs (CAC). When done the right way, they can transform everything from strategic alignment across teams to campaign effectiveness and sales velocity. So how can B2B marketing teams develop clear brand differentiation strategy that drives measurable revenue? That’s why we’re talking to Chantelle Little (Founder and CEO, Tiller Digital), who shares her expertise on how to leverage brand differentiation for massive B2B growth. During our conversation, Chantelle discussed why clear brand differentiation and positioning are underrated growth levers for SaaS and tech companies, especially regarding shorten sales cycles and lowering CAC. She also highlighted the importance of strategic alignment and effective positioning, particularly in the face of increasing competition and the market’s maturity. Chantelle discussed why understanding customer pain points is crucial, and how to leverage AI for audience insights. She provided advice on conducting competitor analyses, gathering customer feedback, and leveraging metrics like unaided recall and CAC to quantify brand performance. Chantelle also underscored the necessity of aligning product marketing and sales teams for impactful branding and scaling. https://youtu.be/IF4TaI0QAfU Topics discussed in episode: [00:00] Why brand differentiation is a non-negotiable now in the world of SaaS [02:36] Why AI is a double-edged sword: great for starting positioning work, but dangerous if human judgment isn’t layered in [08:40] The pushback founders give (“it’s too early”) and why those that invest early remove friction from fundraising, hiring, and conversion  [11:49] Key pitfalls to avoid regarding brand differentiation (and branding in general) [20:14] How to make brand ROI tangible: work backward from customer lifetime value (CLV), target a specific CAC reduction, and show the revenue math in founder language  [28:34] The 4-step positioning framework:  1) Define your market and competitive alternatives,  2) Gather customer interviews, surveys and competitor audits,  3) Mine for real differentiation beyond table stakes,  4) Operationalize across the website, sales decks and outbound  [39:31] Metrics for proving brand’s impact: unaided recall, branded search growth, direct traffic, CAC trends, conversion rates, sales cycle length, and inbound lead quality Companies and links mentioned: Chantelle Little on LinkedIn  Tiller Digital G2 Transcript Christian Klepp, Chantelle Little Chantelle Little  00:00 One key pitfall I see is just treating brand as a cosmetic exercise, right? So it’s really, especially when people are, you know, not super familiar with brand, not super familiar with marketing. It can be really easy to, you know, associate logo with brand, and it’s, it’s a lot more comprehensive than that. Christian Klepp  00:19 It’s something that tends to get overlooked in the world of B2B SaaS and tech, yet it’s a crucial component in helping companies to shorten sales cycles and lower Customer Acquisition Costs (CAC) I’m talking about clear brand differentiation and positioning. When done the right way, it can transform everything from strategic alignment across teams to campaign effectiveness and sales velocity. So how can B2B Marketing Teams develop clear brand differentiation for growth? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Chantelle Little, who will be answering this question. She’s the founder and CEO of Tiller Digital that helps B2B, SaaS and tech companies scale through strategic customer centric marketing. Tune in to find out more about what the speed to be Marketers Mission is okay, and away we go. Chantelle Little, welcome to the show. Chantelle Little  01:13 Thanks for having me, Christian. I appreciate it. Christian Klepp  01:15 Great to have you on the show. You know, we had such a great pre interview conversation, and I’m really looking forward to this discussion because, man, this is something that’s so important. And I’m not saying this because I also do branding, but it’s just something that I think is really important. I personally feel from my own experience, it’s something that tends to get overlooked a lot, especially in in the world that you operate in, which is in B2B, SaaS and tech, all right, so I’m going to keep the audience in suspense a little while longer, while I go through the first question. Chantelle Little  01:48 Okay, sounds good. Christian Klepp  01:49 So you’re on a mission to help B2B SaaS teams clarify their story, sharpen positioning, and build websites that drive pipeline. And who doesn’t want that? I think is the better question. But for this conversation, I’d like to narrow it down to the topic of how clear brand differentiation and positioning shorten sales cycles and lower CAC. So for those that don’t know what CAC is, it’s Customer Acquisition Cost. So let’s kick off the conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So question number one, why do you believe that brand differentiation is the most underrated growth lever in B2B? And question number two, as a follow up, where do you see many B2B SaaS companies struggle? Chantelle Little  02:36 Yeah, well, maybe I can kick off with the differentiation and positioning pieces. I think one thought that comes to mind is that differentiation from a branding perspective, perspective has always mattered. But the market has changed a lot in in the last decade, but even in the last 18 months, last two years, it has shifted a lot. One of the things that has changed so much is that the SaaS market in particular has matured a lot over the last number of years. And I love to follow all the stats on what’s happening in the market. And if you just consider that, we’re like mid 2020s, and it’s like the SaaS market is roughly 300, 400 billion. And a lot of you know data out there suggesting that that market could double between now and 2030 so in the next four years, kind of thing, we might see that market reach closer to 700 billion. So I share that, because a decade ago, when people were entering the SaaS market, there were fewer that. There was less competition. There were fewer people to actually compete with. By nature, there were fewer buyers as well, because less companies have shifted a lot in terms of their use of SaaS products in operating their businesses, but the market has shifted so it’s more mature, there’s more competition, there’s higher expectations that come with that as well. And then the other thing you know, in addition to saturation in the market, is that the barriers to entry have dramatically lowered, right? So I think last week, I was reading an article about, yet again, another company that has used lovable to launch a you know, product in market within two weeks and generated millions of dollars of revenue. I’m worried about misstating the facts so, but it was like millions of revenue in a short period of time. So when the barriers are lower, the market is saturated, there’s more of a need for differentiation, and I’m really passionate about that, because if we communicate the same story, and if we communicate sameness, we’re never going to win. AI (Artificial Intelligence), obviously lovable is a good example of an AI platform companies are using, but it also has accelerated the ability to create products, but also it is contributing to sameness, like if you put your your competitors into AI and you ask it to spit out positioning for you and your key messaging, it’s a great start, and I’m actually. A huge advocate of using AI for those those steps, but probably talk about that a little bit later in the podcast too. But it’s really critical that human judgment is layered into that that work. Otherwise, you know, brands will be just spit out from AI, and by nature, they will probably become more similar, not more distinct. So those are a couple to answer. Kind of the first question on why I think it’s underrated. I think if companies can really nail that, it really helps with getting traction, and not just, you know, a little bubble of success, but long term traction and long term performance, which is really key. That’s a that’s a big one for brand. So hopefully that that helps, and then I could go into, like, some of the things where I see companies really struggling. I think there’s a few areas I think that a lot of companies, really, if I’m talking early stage for a moment, a lot of companies that I’ve worked with, or I’ve seen, have really struggled to understand the power of getting those foundational brand pieces figured out. So if I use positioning as an example, if you don’t get your positioning correct, all the money invested after that really might, you know, not work in the way that you’re hoping it will work. So it’s kind of going to that foundational layer, and really making sure the foundation is solid, and then building off of that foundation worth saying, hard to get it right. You know, like the first time, you’re constantly iterating on your positioning, not just in the early stage, but as you scale up, you know, I go back to our positioning as a company every year, if not more frequently than that, and you start to tune and experiment and hone it. But I think the core piece is that if you don’t position yourself, you will be positioned by the market, and it may not be in your favor. So being intentional and s

    47 min

  3. MAR 11

    How to Achieve Outsized Outcomes with a Small B2B Marketing Team

    How to Achieve Outsized Outcomes with a Small B2B Marketing Team With the rapid advancement of AI, machine learning, shifting market dynamics, and more competition entering the ecosystem all the time, B2B marketers are confronted with more challenges than ever before. Teams are constantly facing the challenges of tightened budgets and even tighter deadlines. With this in mind, how can small B2B marketing teams achieve more with less and still deliver exceptional outcomes? That’s why we’re talking to Jordan Buning (Principal and Senior Account Executive, ddm marketing + communications), who shares insights and practical strategies on how to achieve outsized outcomes with a small B2B marketing team. During our conversation, Jordan discussed how teams can navigate market uncertainty and how AI has impacted efficiency. He emphasized the importance of revenue and pipeline metrics to demonstrate the financial contribution that marketing makes to the bottom line. Jordan also stressed the need for small B2B marketing teams to optimize campaigns, avoiding pitfalls like chasing immediate results at the expense of long-term success, and maintain continuous alignment with sales. He advocated for a platform approach over fragmented campaigns, regular metrics evaluation, and a focus on precision over volume. https://youtu.be/31Qts7vadLI Topics discussed in episode: [03:15] Why leadership often views marketing as an expendable variable rather than a core driver of the bottom line. [14:36] Jordan explains how to avoid “strategy whiplash” and over-reliance on performance tactics. [21:20] Discover why right-place, right-time messaging is non-negotiable, especially when it comes to appealing to the buying committee. [28:08] Instead of quarterly campaigns, build a core messaging “soundboard” that provides consistency and longevity. [33:36] Jordan walks through a 3-phase (90-day roadmap) approach consisting of diagnosing, activating, and doubling down to show ROI within one business quarter. [37:14] Why you must lead with pipeline contribution and opportunity creation rate when presenting to the board. [41:32] Why marketing belongs in every part of the organization, from customer experience and billing to employee engagement, not just lead generation. Companies and links mentioned: Jordan Buning on LinkedIn  ddm marketing + communications  Transcript Christian Klepp, Jordan Buning Jordan Buning  00:00 I think you know, the things that probably made this conversation happen in the first place are probably the first metrics you got to have. So it’s probably has something to do with revenue, and probably secondly, has to do with how quality they think the pipeline is filled with opportunities. Your initial metrics that would say this is working or not working. Really have to start there. And it may be two or three steps removed from some of the, you know, inside marketing measurements that that might be there, but at the end of the day, that’s what will kind of matter to them. And so what is, you know, the pipeline contribution looking like? What kind of opportunity creation rate is happening, revenue influence, those, those kinds of things, I think are components that that matter when we talk about revenue and pipeline is, are we actually contributing to the financial success of the organization. Christian Klepp  00:57 With the rapid advancement of AI (Artificial Intelligence) machine learning, changing market dynamics, market uncertainty and more competition entering the ecosystem all the time. B2B Marketers are confronted with more challenges than ever before. Another one of those challenges includes tightened budgets and even tighter deadlines. With this in mind, how can B2B Marketing teams achieve more with less and still deliver exceptional outcomes. Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Jordan Buning, who will be answering this question. He’s the principal and Senior Account Executive at DDM Marketing and Communications who’s committed to doing great things with incredible people inside and outside the company. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Okay? Mr. Jordan Buning, welcome to the show, sir. Jordan Buning  01:48 Thank you. Appreciate you having me. Christian Klepp  01:50 Really looking for this conversation, Jordan. Not like man, I should have recorded the last couple of conversations that we had that, in itself, should have been the episode already, right? But I’m, I’m really looking forward to this conversation. You know, I had a great chat with your colleague, Joanne. And you know, we’re going to talk about a topic today that you and I both know it. It keeps coming up, and you ask 50 people out there, and they’ll give you 50 different answers to this question, right? So let’s, let’s just dive right in. I’m going to say you’re on a mission to help B2B companies deliver high impact marketing campaigns that drive measurable results. But I’d like to focus on this following topic for today’s conversation, and we’ve got plenty to unpack from this one, how small marketing teams can optimize campaigns to reduce waste and achieve outsized outcomes, probably I should highlight bold italic, underline that outsized outcomes, because that one’s going to be the interesting one. Let’s kick off the conversation with the following question, so I’m happy to repeat so why do you think many B2B organizations are spending less on their marketing efforts and shortening the timelines in which teams need to deliver results? And based on those constraints in your experience, where have you seen many marketing teams struggle? Jordan Buning  03:15 But you’re right. There’s a there’s a lot there, and trying to consolidate all of my thoughts down is a unique challenge. But, you know, I think part of it is not that marketing is losing importance sometimes in various circumstances, be it budgetary otherwise, but it’s more about the pressure of reshaping how it gets evaluated. There is a lag, I think in terms of how a lot of individuals perceive the importance in the in the contribution that marketing makes to the organization’s goals and ultimately to its bottom line. So if it’s disconnected, it becomes a variable, and a variable that, while maybe nobody is really wishing for, it sometimes becomes minimized or expendable, and therefore it’s really kind of a big push. And there’s certainly a variety of things that may be driving that. It could be their own, economic uncertainties, their market has changed. Therefore they’re making their adjustments. They’re managing risk. When they’re doing some of those kinds of things they may not necessarily see again that relationship between what they’re attributing to the bottom line. They may have measurements that are not aligned to show performance and not that it isn’t but they don’t have the data that’s that’s doing that and or they may even have a lag. They may have a lot of information, but it’s historical data, and present realities may be slightly different, and they don’t really have a way to connect to it. And then you’ve got a lot of other circumstances, like shift towards more immediate revenue. They may be saying, well, let’s just push out, let’s, let’s push more on. The sales side of this. Let’s work with partners, and let’s have them facilitate the process, and we’re going to get out of the sales and marketing role. Maybe what they say is, we’re going to park acquisition and we’re going to really go after account expansion. So those, those are all things that could be driving all of this. Then you throw in things like AI, where they might say, you know, it looks like there’s a lot of great tools out there. Why don’t we use more of those? Let’s use that to fill the gap where we maybe don’t have the resources that we once had. So those all become drivers in the whole situation. And somewhere in between is reality. One other thing, maybe, you know, a lot of organizations, depending on where they are, probably got where they were without maybe marketing being one of the primary drivers. Maybe they had a great engineering solution. They’re a great production organization, and maybe even a great selling organization. But marketing hasn’t been something that has necessarily been invested in as great they got there in their minds through other things. And so there’s suddenly a shift in terms of how to reconcile the value that marketing is contributing to the whole thing. And so it’s both an opportunity and a challenge. Obviously, in the moment, it’s it’s difficult and it’s painful. But those are, those are some of the circumstances that are kind of going on then based on constraints, where do we think marketing teams struggle? I had to remind myself of the question, so I wrote it down. If I were to zoom zoom out, I think the core struggle is, is somewhat capability and capacity. But it’s really kind of more the issue of time horizon that they might be running into, depending on what the issues are that are getting brought up. There could be a bit of a strategy whiplash where, you know, they had a plan, and the best laid plan has gone to waste, and there’s suddenly kind of a push towards a very different effort. And so the investment now is getting either tabled or stalled and and suddenly they’re they’re wanting to switch horses and go to a different direction. And obviously, from a marketing standpoint, that fear is great. We’ve got lots of activity. We’re doing a bunch of other things. We feel good about that. The other side of it is there’s a cost to losing that momentum of where you were going before. And how do you how do you kind of reconcile that? And then, how do you avoid continuing to have strat

    45 min

  4. MAR 5

    Why Authority Now Matters More Than Visibility in B2B Content

    Why Authority Now Matters More Than Visibility in B2B Content With AI making it easier than ever to create content, B2B buyers are drowning in a sea of digital noise. To rise about the generic, “AI-slop”, the new differentiator is no longer only visibility, but the ability to convey authentic brand authority. More often than not, it is the perceived credibility and depth of a brand’s messaging that decides whether B2B companies are shortlisted or ignored by well-informed decision makers. So how can B2B companies build a solid thought leadership strategy that creates trust and sets them apart from competitors? That’s why we’re talking to Jamie Thomson (Copywriter and Founder, Brand New Copy), who shares his expertise and insights on why authority now matters more than visibility in B2B content. During our conversation, Jamie emphasized that true authority is built through consistent communication and unique insights rather than controversial stances. He criticized the over-reliance on AI for content ideation and encouraged businesses to focus on their unique selling points and authentic company culture. Jamie stressed the need for documented brand positioning and strategic messaging to build credibility across all channels. He also underscored the value of thought leadership and social proof in signalling authority, and suggested that businesses should invest in understanding and documenting their positioning for success in the long run. https://youtu.be/k4H-0M5ZL7g Topics discussed in episode: [02:47] The end of easy visibility: Why AI overviews and shifting algorithms mean you can no longer control traffic through traditional SEO alone. [07:09] Redefining authority: Authority isn’t about being controversial or loud; it is built through the consistency of your message and brand voice. [13:31] Chasing the right metrics: Why “visibility for visibility’s sake” is a vanity metric, and how to tie your content strategy to actual business outcomes.  [19:39] The credibility anchor: How being consistent with your own unique data and statistics keeps your brand from becoming an “average” forgettable competitor.  [21:42] Messaging for committees: A simple 3-step formula to establish messaging that resonates with human decision-makers, even in complex B2B environments. [27:35] Signaling authority: Practical ways to use “social proof” and unique data to back up your claims in proposals and on your website.  [31:18] Future-proofing your brand: Why documenting your positioning today is the only way to maintain longevity over the next decade. Companies and links mentioned: Jamie Thomson on LinkedIn  Brand New Copy  Copywriting Course at Brand New Copy Transcript Jamie Thomson, Christian Klepp Jamie Thomson  00:00 You know, maybe it’s a personality thing, but like, I’m not particularly controversial in my marketing and I do think people take that stance, like we are the young upstarts, or we are going to make a point of disagreeing with this company so that we can get engagement, whether they believe what their sort of stance are taking or not. It’s, it’s almost that sort of strategy of, there’s no such thing as bad press, and it’s probably effective short term and that’s why people are doing it. But if you’re looking to build a sort of a future proof business, comes back to that idea of authority being a bit consistency, unless your whole strategy is to be controversial, it’s more of a short term gain tactic. I think strategy is even a strong word. I think it’s a tactic. Christian Klepp  00:48 With AI making it easier than ever to create content, B2B, buyers are drowning in a sea of digital noise. To rise above this noise, the new differentiator needs to be delivered through authority. More often than not, it’s the credibility of a brand’s messaging that decides whether they’re shortlisted or ignored. So how can B2B companies leverage this and build their credibility? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Jamie Thomson, who will be answering this question. He’s an award winning copywriter and founder of Brand New Copy who puts strategy at the center of the process to define what the copy should achieve. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Okay, and off we go. Mr. Jamie Thomson, welcome to the show, sir. Jamie Thomson  01:34 Hi, Christian. It’s good to speak to you again. Thanks for having me on. Christian Klepp  01:38 Great to have you here. I mean, we had such a dynamite conversation. Like, a few weeks ago, I should have, like, hit record on that conversation too, right? Like, yeah, absolutely, Jamie, I’m really looking forward to this conversation because, you know, one of the things that you’re going to talk about today is, like, near and dear to me as somebody that also dabbles in the world of copywriting for B2B, but um, so here we go, right? So Jamie, you’re on a mission. I’m going to say, to help B2B companies to define their messaging, strengthen their positioning and communicate with authority across every channel. So this is really serious stuff here. Okay, so for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the topic of why authority now matters more than visibility and B2B, right? So I’d like to kick off the conversation with two questions, right? And I’m happy to repeat them. First question is, why do you believe authority is important, especially in an age where AI is creeping into B2B content and everything else. And where do you see a lot of B2B brands falling flat with the authority piece? Jamie Thomson  02:47 Yeah, so I think, I think authority is more important now than ever has been because, like you said, because there’s a lot of like, LLMs (Large Language Models) now kind of doing a lot of the marketing work that was maybe, you know, handled by humans before. I think that you know, sort of the sort of background context to this is that, you know, as Marketers, we don’t have as much control over the visibility of our content as we used to like Google, for example. You now have AI (Artificial Intelligence) overviews. So even if you get to like position one in Google, you’re still at the bottom of the page. Because you’ve got your AI overviews, you have sponsored results, and then there’s the organic listings underneath. And even if you’re position one, you’re still at the bottom of the page earlier. As a result, website traffic has reduced, and people aren’t getting the same kind of like traffic numbers that they used to on LinkedIn as well, like the way that the algorithms are sort of working nowadays. There doesn’t really seem to be any regular reason as to which posts perform well, it seems to be the sort of casual, off the cuff posts that seem to seem to get a lot of attention. There is a genuinely useful, you know, thought leadership stuff has kind of been pushed to the back burner a little bit. So I think authority is important because we don’t have as much control over visibility as we used to, and I think it’s the genuinely useful content that is the stuff that’s going to get shared, whether or not the algorithms are going to push that. So if you have produced a piece of content that has, like, really unique data points that is genuinely useful to other businesses, and it’s get shared online. It’s going to get shared internally between companies, and it’ll get linked to as well. And again, like to answer your second question, and where do a lot of sort of B2B brands like sort of miss the mark? I think. I think the main thing is that they’re the content that they’re producing isn’t genuinely useful. They are a lot of brands across industries that are kind of seeing the same thing as their competitors. And I don’t know for sure, but I have a sort of inclination that is down to LLMs, because they’re kind of relying on like chatGPT for their ideas. They’re asking chatGPT to give them ideas for content. And, you know, chatGPT, it can give you the output, but it can’t give you the input. You know, it’s a technology of averages. So if you’re looking to LLMs for ideation, it’s going to give you the average of what everyone else in industry is saying. So it’s important that your businesses are really doubling down on their ideation and things that make them unique as a company, like their unique selling points, their value propositions, their company culture. You know, the people behind the business, that’s kind of what makes a company’s culture and chatGPT, llms, they don’t really have any first hand experience of that, and it’s such a nuanced thing that you’re never going to get like effective results if you’re asking LLMs for the ideas in the first place. If you’re using it for execution, to help guide style and tone a little bit, then that’s fair enough. But, yeah, it’s important that brands are sort of really doubling down on the ideation. You know, that’s that, I think, just genuine, unique insights that people are actually going to be interested in reading. Christian Klepp  06:38 Absolutely, I had a couple of follow up questions for you there. I mean, this is great stuff. This might sound like overly, like simplified. I mean, for lack of a better description, but like, just, let’s clear the air here a little bit. Define, from your experience and your own interpretation, define authority, because that also gets thrown around very loosely, I feel almost as, almost as much as the term you’ve got to add value. I mean, like, you know, what does that actually mean, right? Jamie Thomson  07:09 Yeah, yeah. So to me, authority is about a brand communicating their messages in a consistent way, whether that is the actual content of the messages or the way that they actually communicate it, in terms o

    38 min

  5. FEB 26

    How to Fix Your Underperforming B2B SaaS Funnel for Quick Revenue Wins

    How to Fix Your Underperforming B2B SaaS Funnel for Quick Revenue Wins In the fast-paced world of B2B SaaS, the ability to go to market, iterate on feedback, and close deals rapidly is the ultimate competitive advantage. Unfortunately, many sales and marketing teams find themselves stalled by underperforming funnels that drain resources without delivering measurable results. When growth plateaus, the challenge lies in transforming these stagnant pipelines into high-velocity growth engines without requiring massive capital or long timelines. So, how can B2B SaaS teams identify the hidden leaks in their customer journey and unlock quick-win revenue through a strategic, data-driven approach? That’s why we’re talking to April Syed (CEO of Aperture Codex), who shares her expertise on fixing an underperforming B2B SaaS funnel for quick revenue wins. During our conversation, April discussed the importance of leveraging data to pinpoint “quick wins,” such as streamlining sales processes and eliminating high-friction points in user onboarding. She explained how to fix “conversion killers” like messaging misalignment and highlighted the necessity of aligning marketing and sales efforts to ensure a seamless experience. April also advocated for a culture of continuous testing, using small, incremental experiments to de-risk major strategic shifts. She emphasized the value of regular customer journey mapping to maintain a predictable, sustainable, and highly efficient path to profitable growth. https://youtu.be/VeeFMznhCfw Topics discussed in episode: [07:24] Why your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) must be a “living, breathing” document reviewed quarterly, not a static file sitting in a deck. [11:24] The critical mistake of treating marketing as a cost center rather than a revenue driver, and how it leads to “vanity metrics” over actual sales. [13:53] Why you should focus on small, incremental tests to “de-risk” big spends before committing to expensive strategies like rebrands. [18:05] The 5-Point Conversion Diagnostic: A framework to analyze time-to-value, messaging alignment, behavioral triggers, follow-up timing, and pricing friction. [23:07] A real-world example of how “pricing friction” (forcing an annual upgrade) caused a loyal promoter to churn to a competitor. [27:24] How to audit your funnel for “Quick Win” revenue opportunities in under 30 days by analyzing where deals stall in the CRM. [35:27] Why no marketing asset is ever “final”, and why high-traffic landing pages should be in a state of constant A/B testing. Companies and links mentioned: Apryl Syed on LinkedIn  Aperture Codex  Superhuman Notion  Motion Transcript Christian Klepp, Apryl Syed Apryl Syed  00:00 Brand for instance, doesn’t work itself into any metric, but it makes every metric better across the board. Sometimes we’re chasing these metrics and like the attribution of where a particular deal came from, or how did they find out about us, and we’re not thinking about all of the things that are outside in the flywheel that are, you know, causing that person to, yes, eventually convert. But were there seven or eight other things that kind of they interacted with. Christian Klepp  00:26 In the world of B2B SaaS speed is the name of the game. Get to market, quickly collect feedback, quickly iterate quickly and close deals quickly. But what happens if your sales and marketing teams get stuck with underperforming funnels that don’t generate the results you need? How can teams turn these funnels into growth machines without massive spend or long timelines? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking with Apryl Syed, who will be answering this question. She’s the CEO of ApertureCodex who gives founders the strategy and the psychology needed to jump into fast revenue gains. Let’s dive in. Okay, and away we go. Apryl Syed, welcome to the show. Apryl Syed  01:12 Thank you so much, Christian. I’m so excited to be here. Christian Klepp  01:15 Glad to have you on the show. I think we had such a great pre interview conversation. I kept telling myself I should have hit record, and I talked to you the first time, right? But, you know, two times is a charm or three times. But anyways, this is the second time we’re talking. So I’m really looking forward to this conversation Apryl, because we’re going to touch on a topic today that I think is not just relevant to sales teams. It’s really important to marketing teams as well. So I’m going to keep the audience in suspense just a little while longer while I set up this first question. Right? So you’re on a mission to help B2B SaaS teams turn underperforming funnels into growth machines without massive spend or lengthy timelines, and for people that didn’t hear that the first time, I think everybody wants something like that, right, quick results without spending massively, right? So for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the following topic and just unpack it from there, right? So how can SaaS teams leverage a quick win revenue approach for better and more predictable growth. And I mean, come on Apryl, who the heck doesn’t want that, right? Who doesn’t want predictable growth, right? So I want to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So first one is, where do you see many SaaS teams struggle with revenue growth? And the second question is, what are some of the key causes of this? Apryl Syed  02:44 It’s really great, by the way. As a side note, I got turned down for a podcast this week because they said I talked too much about quick wins, and they felt that it conflicted with their policy. I won’t mention the name, they’re an agency out there, but they were all about big spend, and they felt that I conflicted with that. And this exactly ties in. This is probably why the subject that I talk about so. Christian Klepp  03:13 Well, I’m sorry for them. Apryl Syed  03:15 Yeah, that’s okay. That’s okay. We don’t, we don’t match. You know, I’m not for everyone. Well, I think that, like SaaS teams don’t realize that they’ve got data. And within their data really, really lies some of the tweaks, opportunities and things like that that can make them extra revenue that they might not be looking at today. And I think, you know, perhaps it’s in tweaking their sales process. Maybe they don’t have a sales process misalignment between sales and marketing. Marketing is talking about one thing, sales is selling another thing, or could be marketing is marketing to one type of industry and user, and sales is saying that’s not the right user. It’s something completely different, that misalignment in itself causes revenue conflict, revenue opportunities. And you know, sometimes it’s spending on expensive tools before you’ve actually broken down some of those points in the funnel. Or could be tools that you’re getting a lot of data from, or they’re not doing anything with the data on a regular basis. So I think, you know, those are where I see some of those, like, struggle with revenue because of some of those issues and and then I think your second question was kind of like, well, how to, how do they kind of avoid some of those scenarios? Right? Christian Klepp  04:40 It was more about the the key causes, but you but, but you did talk about that already, right?   Apryl Syed  04:44 So, right, right? That definitely is there. Well, I think, you know, it’s also could be, you know, where they’re chasing certain metrics and focused in, and we had this conversation earlier. It’s like brand, for instance, doesn’t work at. Yourself into any metric, but it makes every metric better across the board. So sometimes we’re chasing these metrics and like the attribution of where a particular deal came from, or how did they find out about us, and we’re not thinking about all of the things that are outside in the flywheel that are, you know, causing that person to, yes, eventually convert. But were there seven or eight other things that kind of they interacted with before they got to that point? And we had to get them ready? So, you know, can definitely be about just chasing those metrics too much, which means you avoid doing things that don’t give you that instant metric. And I think that is a big challenge and pitfall that that teams can can certainly fall into. I think also the the challenge of treating marketing as a cost center and not letting them be in charge of all of those metrics down to the sale that happen. And that might sound weird to some folks, but I’ve certainly been in enough teams and enough experiences across you know my background that I’ve seen that sometimes you can make a change in marketing. It produces a lot of leads, but those leads aren’t qualifying and they’re not turning into revenue, and yet, if the metric is producing leads, well then marketing can walk away the end of the day and meet their metrics and jobs, but if the metric is revenue, then they’ve got to go all the way to that end cycle and see that it’s a qualified opportunity. That, of course, goes back to my original point that if sales and marketing aren’t in lock sync with each other, and they don’t have a good relationship and dynamic, then it ends up in finger pointing when things aren’t going wrong, instead of both teams coming together, being on the same page and figuring out what’s going to work. And that’s that’s really the key. Christian Klepp  07:03 Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you might have brought it up, and maybe I didn’t catch it, and if not, I apologize. But like, one of the things that I didn’t notice, too, is, like, this misalignment of who, who the who the ICP (Ideal Customer Profile) is, like the assumptions th

    41 min

  6. FEB 19

    How AI Agents are Disrupting the AdTech Landscape

    How AI Agents are Disrupting the AdTech Landscape Semantic content classification driven by AI agents is currently transforming digital advertising and B2B content monetization as we know it. When leveraged the right way, marketers can classify B2B content into actionable signals and find the most relevant content across the open web. This shift toward AI-native advertising allows for a more sophisticated approach to targeting that moves beyond traditional cookies. So, how can brands strategically implement these tools to generate impactful results, and what does the rise of autonomous agents mean for the future of your digital marketing strategy? That’s why we’re talking to Brendan Norman (Co-Founder and CEO, Classify), who shares his expertise and experience on how AI agents are disrupting the AdTech landscape. During our conversation, Brendan discussed the evolution of digital advertising and the critical integration of AI and cloud-based tools to automate manual tasks and improve campaign optimization. He also elaborated on the massive shift from human-centric to agent-centric traffic, predicting that agent traffic will surpass human traffic within 18-24 months. Brendan also explained why he believes that the future belongs to marketers who can blend audience and contextual signals to monetize human and agent attention. He highlighted how new AI-native tools are democratizing advanced ad tech, significantly reducing costs and improving efficiency for large and small advertisers. https://youtu.be/yVobWZTmwco Topics discussed in episode: [03:01] Beyond Keywords: How semantic understanding allows advertisers to target the nuance of a page (like “snow removal” vs. just “winter”) rather than broad categories.  [06:46] Optimizing for AI Agents: Why “Generative Engine Optimization” (GEO) complements traditional SEO, and how brands must prepare for agents retrieving information instead of humans.  [12:34] The Shift in Web Traffic: The prediction that agent traffic will surpass human traffic on the web in the next 6 to 24 months.  [15:50] The Power of Context + Audience: Why the best advertising strategy combines who the user is (audience) with what they are consuming in the moment (context).  [20:47] Democratizing Ad Tech: How AI agents and new frameworks will allow smaller brands with smaller budgets to access sophisticated programmatic advertising tools.  [26:54] High-Fidelity Curation at Scale: How AI reduces the cost of processing massive data sets, making real-time optimization and curation accessible and sustainable.  [33:44] The “Middleman Tax”: A look at the inefficiency of current ad tech where only 35 cents of every dollar reaches the publisher, and how AI can fix this.  Companies and links mentioned: Brendan Norman on LinkedIn  Classify  Bluefish AI Agentic Advertising Org  IAB Tech Lab Transcript Brendan Norman – Classify, Christian Klepp Brendan Norman – Classify  00:00 I think overall, jobs will change. I think that people will have to spend a lot less time doing a lot of the manual, rote tasks that they’re doing today. You know, kind of in parallel with what we’re seeing in terms of vibe coding and people’s ability to build product really quickly, design new web pages really quickly, like get ship things out quickly. I think a lot of the infrastructure layer tools, or just call them like, like, chatGPT style, cloud based tools, LLMs (Large Language Models), we’ll see a lot deeper integration into existing advertising product. And what that does is it helps democratize the whole ecosystem. So I think it frees up people’s time, you know, to not have to do a lot of the basic administrative, you know, reporting, manual, campaign, optimization type stuff, and it will help service a lot better insights. Ultimately, I think the industry grows, and I think it scales even faster and cautiously, optimistically. I think that we, we will have back to building on the curation piece, and, you know, the advertiser, outcomes piece, publisher monetization piece, user experience piece, I think that all those things will increase. Christian Klepp  01:07 When done the right way and leveraging the right approach and technology, you can classify B2B content into actionable insights and find the most similar content across the open web. So how can this be done the right way, and what role do B2B Marketers play? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Brendan Norman about this. He’s the Co-Founder and CEO of Classify, a software that organizes the world’s digital content, making a privacy, safe, searchable and monetizable. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is, and off we go. I’m gonna say Mr. Brendan Norman, welcome to the show. Brendan Norman – Classify  01:49 Thanks for having me, Christian. Christian Klepp  01:51 Great to have you on. I’m really looking for this conversation because, man, like you know, in our previous discussion, besides talking about snow and bad weather, we did have, we did have we did have some interesting discussions around, I’m going to say, AI machine learning, and how that all has some kind of like strong correlation to content. So let’s just dive in. I’m going to start with the first question here. So you’re on a mission to help publishers increase monetization potential and advertisers target the most relevant, curated inventory. So for this conversation, I’m going to focus on the following topic, and we can unpack it from there. So how B2B brands can optimize their own content. And you know, let’s be honest. Brendan, who the heck doesn’t want to do that, right? So your company classify, if I remember correctly. It’s a software that organizes the world’s digital content, making it privacy, safe, searchable and monetizable. So here’s the two-pronged question I’m happy to repeat. So first one is, walk us through how your software does that and B, how does this approach benefit? B2B companies looking to optimize their own content? Brendan Norman – Classify  03:01 Historically, how a lot of content gets categorized, classified, organized, it’s fairly unsophisticated, and it’s been fairly unsophisticated for a long time, just because, you know, the technology is difficult to do, and we haven’t really had the foundational ability to understand it in a way like a human understands it until fairly recently, and do it at Deep scale. So good analogy for this question is like, if you were having a we were having a conversation just a minute ago about the snow, you know, happening in Canada, and how cold it was and how much snow you got, and, you know, also around the fact that, like you had to shovel your driveway, you have a snow blower you were putting the snow. There’s a lot of different nuance to that conversation. I as a human, and most humans, are able to interpret all of that nuance and kind of positively negatively, understand that there’s a snow blower involved in that snow blower was used to remove the snow historically that conversation, you know, if it was just a blob of text, or if it were a web page, the the basic technology to understand it would have reduced it down to a category like snow or maybe winter, and that’s it, and that’s all the targeting that would have happened to that page. So our conversation, you know, gets transcribed. It gets put on a blog, or it gets put on a news site. The only thing that a machine could understand about it was, you know, snow and then potentially a keyword, tagged snow blower. And that’s all so we took a very different one. One of the reasons why you know that that makes it challenging for advertisers and also for publishers. If you’re the publisher of that content, you’re not able to help advertisers really understand the nuance to like, what are we talking about here? Because maybe an advertiser wants to sell snow blowers for that specific site. Maybe they’re looking to sell ski and since we were talking about removing snow from a driveway, probably not the best application to go sell skis on. What is helpful is to deeply understand all the nuance to like we were talking about a driveway. We were talking about removing snow from that driveway. So we invented, you know, a much better, more sophisticated way to scrape content, classify it according to all of the different, you know, nuances semantic understanding much more like a human would, and then embed all of those different, you know, semantic understandings into, you know, this, this, this file, and then we organize that in a way that makes it searchable and kind of understands all the relationships very quickly. And what that does is it helps advertisers, like if you know, I’m Honda selling snow blowers, which they make, arguably the best snow blower in the market, if they’re looking to reach people that are talking about snow removal from the driveway, they can very quickly see the list of all the different URLs across the internet, and they can build, you know, a deal ID, or they can build a targeting, contextual targeting segment to specifically pinpoint those very specific web pages. And that’s kind of how the technology works, and then also, also why it’s relevant to advertisers. Christian Klepp  06:21 Thanks so much for sharing that Brendan that definitely helps us give, you know, some perspective into, like, what your software does. And you know, just, I’m asking you this from, from somebody who probably has learned to write one or two lines of code, and that’s as far as my dev skills go. But like, how, how is your software different from like GEO (Generative Engine Optimization), or is there some kind of overlap? Brendan Norman – Classify  06:46 It’s fairly complementary. I mean, the problem that GEO, you

    38 min

  7. FEB 12

    How to Scale Faster with B2B Brand Strategy

    How to Scale Faster with B2B Brand Strategy Here’s a common scenario in B2B marketing: you launch campaigns, hit the deadlines, and fill the pipeline, but the results feel disconnected from your long-term goals. Internal messaging discussions resurface, campaigns feel shallow and reactive, and when you ask people what your brand stands for, you get 50 different answers. This inconsistent approach creates friction and impedes scalable growth. So what can B2B marketers do when their tactical execution is outpacing their brand strategy, and how to do you realign for lasting impact? That’s why we’re talking to JoAnne Gritter (COO, ddm marketing + communications), who shares her expertise and actionable insights on how to scale faster with B2B brand strategy. During our conversation, JoAnne underscored why a foundational strategy is crucial for building credibility and trust in competitive markets. She also discussed the role of AI in marketing, commenting that while it can support with idea generation and research, it shouldn’t replace direct communication with customers and employees. JoAnne shared some common pitfalls such as messaging misalignment and inconsistent branding, which can lead to distrust and reduced credibility, She explained the importance of having a cohesive brand strategy that aligns values, messaging, and customer experiences across all company touchpoints through proactive brand management. https://youtu.be/_Alwkinhw-g Topics discussed in episode: [02:36] The “Soul vs. Body” framework: Why marketing is just the body in action, while brand strategy is the soul that provides direction and values.  [06:51] Red flags that your marketing has outpaced your strategy: When content feels fragmented and sales teams are telling completely different stories.  [08:52] Defining true brand strategy: Moving beyond logos and colors to include deep research, stakeholder analysis, and internal alignment.  [14:41] The critical differences between a brand refresh (auditing existing assets), a complete revamp (starting from scratch), and branding during a merger.  [24:10] Actionable steps you can take to realign your brand: – Audit your customer journey – Define messaging pillars – Ensure HR and onboarding match the brand promise  [29:37] Why “data-only” marketing fails: The importance of human emotion and psychology that performance data often misses.  Companies and links mentioned: JoAnne Gritter on LinkedIn  ddm marketing + communications  Transcript JoAnne Gritter, Christian Klepp JoAnne Gritter  00:00 AI can be used as a tool. It should not replace thinking and actually talking to your customers and your employees and your sales team. So you can use AI as a crutch to to like, ask it for ideas, idea generation. You can use it for deep research on your on your audience, and stuff like that. But nothing replaces the gold standard of talking to people. I see this in messaging misalignment or content misalignment. If content feels like it’s been written by four different people or completely different companies, that’s a red flag. Christian Klepp  00:37 This is a common scenario for B2B Marketers. You launch campaigns, hit the deadlines and fill the pipeline. It all looks great on paper, but something is still off internal messaging discussions resurface. Campaigns feel shallow and reactive, and when you ask people what the brand stands for, you get 50 different answers. So what can B2B Marketers do when their marketing is outpacing their brand strategy? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to JoAnne Gritter, who will be answering this question. She’s a member of the leadership team at DDM Marketing Communications that provides integrated marketing solutions to drive business success. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is and here we go. JoAnne Gritter, welcome to the show. JoAnne Gritter  01:25 Hi Christian. Happy to be here. Christian Klepp  01:27 We you know, we had such a wonderful, like, pre-interview conversation. I almost feel like we’re neighbors or something, and something to that extent. But I’m, I’m really, like, happy to have you on the show, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because this topic is, I’m a little bit biased because I am in the branding space, so it’s a bit near and dear to my heart, but it’s also something that’s extremely important, because you’ll agree. I mean, you, I know you’ll agree because you wrote an article about it. JoAnne Gritter  01:54 Yeah Christian Klepp  01:55 It’s something that marketing teams tend to overlook. And good, goodness gracious me, I’m gonna, like, stop keeping people in suspense. We’ll just jump right in all right. JoAnne Gritter  02:04 Okay Christian Klepp  02:04 So JoAnne, you’re on a mission to provide integrated marketing solutions that drive B2B business success. So for this conversation, let’s focus on this topic, how brand strategy helps B2B organizations to realign for long term growth. So I’m going to kick off this conversation with the following question. In our previous conversation, our previous discussion, you talked about how marketing without a brand is a strategy without a soul. Could you please explain what you meant by that? JoAnne Gritter  02:36 So I just made the comparison kind of to the whole human, as in, like the brand is your soul, meaning like your values, what drives you, why you’re here, what differentiates you, what makes you different than the person standing next to you, whereas, like marketing is your body in action, or action in general, where you hopefully, if you if you’re a trustworthy person, what is, what are your values internally are matching your actions externally? And that is often where we see a divergent in companies, because they don’t think about those as like two sides of the same coin. It is really important that you make sure that you know the direction that you’re going as a company and what you stand for and who you’re there to support or serve, and what markets you’re there to do, and like your whole company, everybody that’s part of interfacing with customers understands that and is and is speaking the same language. Christian Klepp  03:37 Yeah, no, absolutely. And I suppose the the follow up question to that is like, where do you see a lot of, like, marketing teams go wrong. Because, like, you know, more often than not, a lot of teams are like, Okay, we’ve we’ve implemented the campaigns check. We’re generating results and driving pipeline or filling the pipeline, rather check. So where does it all go wrong? JoAnne Gritter  04:00 If you are not paying attention to your branding, you can have a lot of activity without a lot of traction. So or you can have a lot of different messages going out that seem not cohesive or fragmented. And so you can or more examples you can have, like your sales folks going out and telling different stories about about what your company stands for and what you do and how you’re different, that creates a lot of waste, because then you’re continuously trying to get more activity and more campaigns going more sales people out there, because you’re not getting the quality leads that you need, because nobody really knows what you stand for. Everybody says it a little bit differently, and that goes for customer service too. Branding. People think about branding as a marketing problem, or a marketing, you know, teams problem. But if, let’s say part of your brand is your brand identity or values is to put the customer. First, if you don’t really solidify that from your sales team and your customer support team, then there would be a mismatch there, right then you’re just putting out into the world that customers first, but that doesn’t match up with what the customer is experiencing. Christian Klepp  05:16 Yeah, there’s certainly some kind of misalignment there, and you touched on it, like, briefly. It’s interesting to me, like, even in my own experience, one of the telltale signs of that is when you ask people within the organization, well, what makes you different? And you get 50 different answers, and some of them are similar, and some of them are completely, like, different. And it’s like, okay, yep, okay, I see where this is going, or to your to your other point, when sales teams are having those discovery calls, and you listen back to some of those recordings, which I hope you marketing people out there are doing, and you listen to the way that the sales deal with objections, and maybe the procurement team or people like, you know, on the prospect side, they’re probably not phrasing it exactly the way I’m going to say it right now, but like, but they probably are asking something to the effect of, okay, what makes you different from vendor B, C and D, right? What is different about your solution? Like, why are you charging this guy? Why are your rates like, this high. JoAnne Gritter  05:16 Right. Absolutely. And if they have different answers, or if you go and you listen in on four different sales calls and they’re all a little bit different, then that tells you have a branding issue that people don’t fully understand your brand and how you’re different and who you support and serve. Christian Klepp  05:16 Yep, absolutely, absolutely. So you’ve touched on it a little bit, but like, tell us about some more of these. I’m going to call them red flags, right? That signal when marketing has outrun brand strategy. JoAnne Gritter  05:16 Sure, I see this in messaging misalignment or content misalignment. If content feels like it’s been written by four different people or completely different companies, that’s a red flag. If, like we mentioned, your sales te

    36 min

  8. FEB 5

    How to Fix Boring Brand Podcasts

    How to Fix Boring Brand Podcasts If we’re going to be perfectly honest, many branded podcasts are either boring or they sound just like a recycled commercial. To win the hearts and minds of your B2B target audience, you must move beyond generic corporate messaging and create high-quality content that addresses your listeners’ needs. So how can brands produce engaging content that will resonate with their audiences, and what strategic role does B2B storytelling play? That’s why we’re talking to Jen Moss (Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer, JAR Podcast Solutions), who shared her expertise and strategic insights on how to fix boring brand podcasts. During our conversation, Jen discussed the importance of creating engaging brand podcasts that build trust and loyalty. She explained why B2B podcasts should go beyond product promotion and focus on deeper stories and societal issues. Jen also highlighted the need for creative courage, proper planning, rigorous pre-production, and engagement with the audience. She advised against rushing into production without proper ideation and marketing budget. Jen also underscored the power of authentic B2B storytelling and cautioned against relying too heavily on AI for content creation. https://youtu.be/sVlsvotzFEE Topics discussed in episode: [02:22] The definition of a successful brand podcast: It shouldn’t just be a CEO talking about products, but rather a way to facilitate deeper conversations on industry issues.  [05:12] Why brands need “creative courage” to stand out in a saturated market, including experimenting with fiction or narrative formats.  [08:32] How to tell a good B2B story by focusing on “beats,” high stakes, and the transparent struggle rather than just the solution.  [17:28] The top pitfalls in podcasting: Failing to budget for marketing, ignoring audience analytics, and drop-off rates.  [29:25] A real-world example of how Genome BC used human storytelling to make complex scientific topics accessible and engaging.  [37:40] Why using AI purely for speed and volume is a mistake, and why the mission of podcasting should be connection, not efficiency. Companies and links mentioned: Jen Moss on LinkedIn  JAR Podcast Solution  Genome BC Bumper Ira Glass Cory Doctorow Nice Genes! Podcast Another Round Podcast Hot Ones Podcast Transcript Christian Klepp, Jen Moss Jen Moss  00:00 Podcasting, especially audio podcasting, I will say, is a sacred space between the ears. You are literally whispering in people’s ears if they don’t like what they’re hearing, if they start to feel like you’re shilling to them, they will yank out the earbuds and it’s game over for you. Christian Klepp  00:17 If we’re going to be perfectly honest, many brand podcasts are either boring or they just sound like a commercial. To win the hearts and minds of your target audience, you need to create content that serves your listeners and is something they actually want to hear. So how can you achieve that? And what role does B2B Marketing play in producing successful brand podcasts? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Jen Moss, who will be answering that question. She is the Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer of JAR Podcast Solutions, which helps create quality podcasts that earn trust. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is, okay, and I’m gonna say, Jen Moss, welcome to the show. Jen Moss  01:05 Thank you so much for having me. Christian Klepp  01:07 Great to have you on. We’ve had such a fantastic conversation before. I hit record. I probably should have recorded this earlier, but in any case, Jen Moss  01:14 Yes, if anyone needs any parenting tips, we got your back. Christian Klepp  01:18 Absolutely, absolutely that that book is coming out soon on Amazon. I’m just kidding, But Jen, really looking forward to this conversation, because, man, we are going to cover a topic which, you know, might rock the boat a little bit, but it’s all, you know, constructive, and you know, it’s all for the sake of growing in a positive way, right? Jen Moss  01:35 I think so, Christian Klepp  01:36 At least I like to think so. Jen Moss  01:38 That is the goal. Christian Klepp  01:39 Absolutely, absolutely, all right, so here it comes. So Jen, you’re on a mission to help brands craft story first, podcasts that earn trust, build loyalty and connect deeply with the audiences that matter most. So for today’s conversation, I’d like to zero in on the following topic. Here comes how to fix boring brand podcasts. I know we’ve got a ton to talk about, but let’s kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So what is it about brand podcasting that you wish more people understood? And number two is, where do most brand podcasts go wrong. Jen Moss  02:22 Okay, so those are both great questions, so that what is a branded podcast is probably a good place to start. A lot of people might think that it’s, you know, the CEO of a company talking about their products and services ad nauseam. And if you happen to want to buy those products and services, maybe you would listen to it, because you could get more information, like, kind of an informational, almost transactional thing. I think that’s what a lot of people imagine when they hear the words branded podcast. However, that there’s a lot more to branded podcasting than that, and a lot of the smarter sort of, I would say, savvy brands, the ones with kind of sophisticated marketing campaigns that are multifaceted, are looking at podcasting as a way to tell deeper stories, engage with conversations that are ongoing in society that really matter so, sort of a chance for the brand to show its stripes a little bit, and an opportunity to offer something to a target audience that is sort of like a kind of a gift. You know, like we’re going to give you something of value that you actually will benefit from or enjoy, learn something from, be emotionally moved by, you know, hear a good story, and it’ll be in an area that the brand cares about, that that kind of ticks the boxes in terms of, like, what are the brand’s values, but is not specifically, and this is very important, is not specifically related to the brand’s products and services, per se. So it’s more like, okay, the brand maybe exists in a certain wider industry, and there’s an issue in that industry that keeps coming up, or a new technology that’s affecting everything, something like that, something that needs to be talked about. And so they’ll, they’ll set out to kind of facilitate those kinds of conversations through their podcasts. And a branded podcast doesn’t need to be just a one on one interview. It could be, it could be a fiction podcast if you were feeling extra frisky and creative that day, you know, if you wanted to do something fun, like I had a conversation with a solar company not that long ago, and we actually pitched them a fiction podcast about a world powered by sun. And because we thought the opportunity for a solar panel company to sponsor a fiction podcast about a world powered by sun like sci-fi would be, would be exciting and different. Christian Klepp  05:11 How did that go? Jen Moss  05:12 Yeah, well, we didn’t end up getting that job because they didn’t have the creative courage to do it. And so this is, this is the kind of conversation that I’m always on with brands is like, have the creative courage to do something that’s a little out of the ordinary because there’s 500 million podcasts or whatever, so you’ve got to stand out. And so you’ve got to think about how to stand out, and one of the best ways to do that is to do something different that hasn’t been done before. For example, there is a great branded fiction podcast called Murder in HR, and it’s by an online HR platform company. And, you know, like, it’s just a scripted fiction true, true crime. It’s not really true because it’s scripted fiction podcast. But, you know, it’s kind of different and fun. So, so there’s stuff like that. There’s, you know what we would call narrative podcasting, which is a mixture of script and clip, where you’re kind of combining on scene recordings with interview tape, with narration, and kind of thoughtfully braiding all those things together, like an NPR (National Public Radio) storytelling experience or a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) storytelling experience. So there’s all of that that can be part of branded podcasting, and so I just frankly think it’s kind of lazy when brands just decide that they’re going to talk about themselves indefinitely in a podcast. If I want to learn about a brand, I and buy something from them, I’ll go to their website. But if the brand wants to win hearts and minds and raise awareness and build trust and kind of operate on that deeper level to widen their impact. That’s where a podcast, and sponsoring a podcast, or getting behind the production of a podcast can really help. So that’s, I mean, I guess that kind of answers your second question, where do brands go wrong? And it’s usually with just doing the obvious, doing the thing that they think is the most direct route to a customer. And with podcasting, I try to remind people there is a difference between a customer and an audience. A customer is someone who already, at least wants to know more about your product and is thinking of buying maybe they’ve bought from you before. An audience may include those customers, but it may include other people as well who have a wider array of interests and are not yet, do not yet know that they need to buy a new pair of running shoes, but then the next time they need a new pair of running shoes, they may think of you because of that ex

    42 min
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About

On this podcast, we’re on a mission – to change and disrupt the way people think about B2B marketing one insightful conversation at a time. Get inspiration from interviews with B2B marketers and industry experts who share their stories, achievements, thoughts on trending topics, and give B2B marketing tips and recommendations. This show is hosted by Christian Klepp, Co-founder of EINBLICK Consulting.

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  • Creator
    EINBLICK
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    211
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    ©2020-2025 EINBLICK Consulting Inc.
  • Show Website
    B2B Marketers on a Mission