Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Michael Liebreich, Bryony Worthington

Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

  1. 1d ago

    Mexico Is On The Brink Of A Solar Boom | Ep281: Alberto Estefan

    Mexico’s energy future is closely tied to its neighbour to the north. It imports much of its natural gas from the US, but could it soon be exporting clean electricity, or even data, in return? With electricity demand surging, Mexico is preparing for a major expansion of its power system, with 30GW of new generation planned by 2030 and more than $40bn in potential investment. This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington speaks to Alberto Estefan, Managing Director of Energy Infrastructure at Actis, about the scale of Mexico’s renewables opportunity. They discuss the country’s growing electricity needs, its dependence on US natural gas, and the investment needed to transform its power system. They also explore the challenges of grid expansion, the role of batteries and whether Mexico could become an energy and data exporter to the US. Topics covered in this episode: Mexico’s renewables boomLatin America’s investment opportunityThe US-Mexico energy relationshipThe economics of solar and batteriesMexico’s new investment frameworkDoes natural gas still have a role?Mexico as a potential data and energy exporterThe risks of delivering the energy transitionEl Niño and Latin America’s energy securityLeadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. Links: Alberto Estefan’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alberto-estefan-71812b63/Actis: https://www.act.is/ Actis' Lucy Heintz on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/nhGDI_0QIHg Robert Capuano on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxbUkAY_jCs    Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Acronyms: CFE: Comisión Federal de Electricidad (Federal Electricity Commission) PPA: Power Purchase Agreement CAISO: California Independent System OperatorEPC: Engineering, Procurement, and ConstructionChapters: 00:00 Intro02:22 Latin America05:10 Mexico’s Growth18:42 Solar Expansion21:14 Investment Framework27:58 Building Businesses34:19 Gas and Renewables37:25 Grid and Batteries44:35 Data Exports48:22 Delivery Risks54:50 El Niño58:18 Outro

    Mexico Is On The Brink Of A Solar Boom | Ep281: Alberto Estefan
  2. 3d ago ·  Bonus

    How To Run An Electricity Grid In A State Of War | Deep Dive Ukraine 04: Vitalii Zaichenko & Volodymyr Kudrytskyi

    The grid is one of the most important assets in any functioning energy system, transmitting electricity from where it's generated to where it's needed. In Ukraine, that challenge is enormous.  The country is very big, 1,300 kilometers from east to west, almost the distance from London to Rome. And the system is under constant attack from Russia, which targets the grid with everything from tiny drones to ballistic missiles.  In this fourth episode of our Ukraine Deep Dive, we're featuring two separate conversations with guests intimately familiar with the operations of that grid: Vitalii Zaichenko, the current chair and CEO of Ukrenergo, Ukraine's national grid operator, and Volodymyr Kudrytskyi, the former CEO of Ukrenergo from 2020 to 2024, and now co-founder of Negen. Michael asks each of them how you protect a grid under constant attack. They also talk about the remarkable story of how Ukraine disconnected itself from the Russian grid and connected itself to the European grid in just three weeks at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, how to build more resilient energy systems, and why there's so much political scandal around the management of Ukrenergo and whether Ukraine could be better prepared for winter. Topics covered in this episode: Russia’s attacks on Ukraine’s electricity gridProtecting substations from missiles and dronesUkraine’s rapid synchronisation with EuropeThe shift towards decentralised power generationBatteries balancing nuclear, solar and windFinancing and insuring energy projects in UkraineThe political controversy surrounding Ukrenergo’s leadershipLessons for global energy system resilienceLeadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä.  Links: Vitalii Zaichenko’s bio: https://ua.energy/about_us/the-management/chairman-of-the-management-board/ Volodymyr Kudrytskyi’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/volodymyr-kudrytskyi-45233161/ Ukrenergo: https://ua.energy/en/ Negen: https://www.negen.energy/en News articles covering Volodymyr’s arrest and bail: https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-ex-grid-operator-chief-detained-over-suspected-embezzlement-of-state-company-funds/ https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2025-11-03/kudrytskyis-arrest-attempt-to-intimidate-representatives-state https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5380xwqjoWärtsilä’s Håkan Agnevall on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A&t=2s Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter:  https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/Acronyms: TSO: Transmission System OperatorENTSO-E: European Network of Transmission System Operators for ElectricityDFI: Development Finance Institution IFI: International Financial InstitutionEBRD: European Bank for Reconstruction and Development Chapters: 00:00 Intro02:34 Ukraine’s Grid08:56 The Need for Flexibility11:18 Protecting the Grid14:10 Repairing the Damage19:58 Connecting to Europe29:04 Ukrenergo Leadership Controversy31:11 Decentralised Power41:20 Kudrytskyi’s Dismissal45:35 Preparing for Winter47:03 Attracting Investment50:54 The Role of Gas53:34 Lessons for the World56:05 Outro

    How To Run An Electricity Grid In A State Of War | Deep Dive Ukraine 04: Vitalii Zaichenko & Volodymyr Kudrytskyi
  3. Oct 28

    Can Indonesia Grow Without Burning More Coal? Ep280: Sandiaga Uno

    Indonesia is facing a defining question: can it continue to grow its economy while making the shift towards a greener future? In this episode of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong speaks with Sandiaga Uno, chair of Mutuagung Lestari International and former Deputy Governor of Jakarta and Minister of Tourism, about Indonesia’s potential to become a major player in the green economy, and why the country’s natural resources, growing energy needs and entrepreneurial ecosystem could create significant opportunities for climate solutions and investment. They explore whether green investing could be the next major growth opportunity, why the economics need to stack up, and how moving beyond the idea of a “green premium” towards “green discounts” could make sustainable business models more competitive. From the challenge of moving away from coal while meeting rising energy demand, to the potential of carbon credits and nature-based solutions, the conversation looks at what it will take to turn Indonesia’s green potential into real economic and environmental value and what investors should consider before taking the plunge. Topics covered in this episode: Indonesia’s green growth potentialGreen investing’s next growth cycleGreen premiums vs. green discountsPolitics and the energy transitionMoving beyond coalCarbon credits and nature-based solutionsTurning green potential into profitsWhat green investors should look forLeadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links Sandiaga Uno’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandiaga-salahuddin-uno-7803b642a/ Saratoga: https://saratoga-investama.com/Sandiaga’s article for the Center for International Relations and Sustainable  Development: https://cirsd.org/horizon-article/from-rebuilding-to-refining-2/ Mutuagung Lestari Tbk (MUTU): https://mutucertification.com/en/ Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com Acronyms: MUTU: Mutuagung Lestari InternationalJETP: Just Energy Transition Partnership SBY: Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, previous President of IndonesiaChapters00:00 Intro00:51 About Indonesia13:03 Saratoga’s Evolution20:47 Green Discounts26:18 Energy Transition32:08 Rising Energy Demand37:14 Growth and Policy43:23 Carbon Credits52:33 Nature-Based Solutions55:21 Climate Investing01:02:31 Outro

    Can Indonesia Grow Without Burning More Coal? Ep280: Sandiaga Uno
  4. Oct 26 ·  Bonus

    How Will The Russia-Ukraine War Come To An End? Deep Dive Ukraine 03: John E. Herbst

    One of the biggest questions when it comes to the brutal and drawn-out Russia-Ukraine war is how it can be brought to an end, and crucially, could it ever be replaced by a stable peace? To understand this, we have to ask not just where we are now, but how we got here. For episode 03 of our Deep Dive Ukraine, Michael Liebreich is in Kyiv with John E. Herbst, Senior Director of the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Centre and former US Ambassador to Ukraine, to explore the origins of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the chance for a stable peace, Russia and Ukraine’s vulnerabilities, and the role of NATO. They also examine the changing US approach to military support and negotiations, and the risks of a peace deal that forces Ukraine to surrender territory. Topics covered in this episode: Why Putin invaded UkraineUkraine’s strikes on Russian oil infrastructureNATO expansion and Russian aggressionThe legacy of the Orange RevolutionThe cracks in Putin’s regimeTrump’s shifting approach to peaceThe risks of territorial concessionsCan Russia’s regime collapse?Links: John E. Herbst’s bio: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/expert/john-e-herbst/Atlantic Council Eurasia Center: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/programs/eurasia-center Michael’s Substack on Ukraine striking Russian oil refineries: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/why-ukraine-should-keep-striking Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com MAP - Membership Action PlanFSB - Federal Security Service (Russia)Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Chapters: 00:00 Intro02:15 The Orange Revolution06:45 Putin’s Ambitions11:00 NATO and Ukraine16:30 US Policy Shifts22:00 Ukraine’s Oil Strikes26:00 Sanctions Hit Russia29:00 Cracks in Putin’s Regime36:00 Ukraine’s Winter39:00 Paths to Peace44:27 Outro

    How Will The Russia-Ukraine War Come To An End? Deep Dive Ukraine 03: John E. Herbst
  5. Oct 21

    We Need More Metals Than Ever. But at What Cost? | Ep279: Rohitesh Dhawan

    The world needs more metals than ever before, but can the mining industry deliver the resources responsibly? The energy transition depends on the mining industry, yet the sector faces hard questions over coal, carbon emissions, environmental damage and the rights of the communities whose land and resources it extracts. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich puts those questions directly to Rohitesh ‘Ro’ Dhawan, President and CEO of the International Council on Mining and Metals (ICMM). Can mining companies credibly commit to net-zero 2050 while continuing to produce coal? Are they taking sufficient responsibility for the emissions generated by the products they sell? And can voluntary industry standards deliver meaningful accountability, or is the industry being trusted to police itself? Michael and Ro also touch on Indigenous consent, the lengthy process of permitting new mines, the economics of mineral processing and the challenge of electrifying some of the world’s largest machines. Topics covered: Responsible mining and global standardsMining's role in the energy transitionCoal production and Scope 3 emissionsTailings dams and industrial safetyIndigenous rights and community consentFaster permitting without weaker safeguardsAfrica's mineral wealth and value chainsElectrifying giant mining trucksChina's dominance in mineral refiningAI, automation and smarter extractionLeadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Rohitesh Dhawan’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohiteshdhawan/ ICMM: https://www.icmm.com/ Mining Indaba 2027: https://miningindaba.com/ Mark Cutifani on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50A_NfgE2A Subscribe to the Cleaning Up newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Acronyms: NGO: Non-Governmental Organisation PRI: Principles for Responsible InvestmentESG: Environmental, Social, and GovernanceR&D: Research and Development GFRP: Glass Fibre Reinforced PolymerChapters: 00:00 Intro04:12 ICMM's Role09:38 Tailings Dam Safety13:01 Investor Accountability16:13 Global Mining Standards22:47 Coal and Emissions31:20 Permitting New Mines38:17 Who Benefits from Mining?42:04 Smelting Economics47:38 Moving Up Value Chains51:29 Electrifying Mine Equipment56:06 Mining Technology Breakthroughs01:01:12 Outro

    We Need More Metals Than Ever. But at What Cost? | Ep279: Rohitesh Dhawan
  6. Oct 19 ·  Bonus

    The Race to Rebuild Ukraine's Energy Infrastructure | Deep Dive 02: Andrii Gerus & Dmytro Boroday

    Can you make energy investments work in a country at war? Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, repeated attacks on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure have devastated its power system. By spring 2024, the country’s dispatchable generating capacity had fallen from 38 GW before the war to just 12 GW, leaving electricity in short supply and heating disrupted for many households. For this week’s Deep Dive Ukraine, Michael Liebreich is in Kyiv speaking to Andrii Gerus, Chair of the Ukrainian Parliament's Committee on Energy, Housing and Utility Services, and Dmytro Boroday, Partner at Horizon Capital, about the race to rebuild Ukraine's energy infrastructure, and the capital needed to make it happen. They examine how Ukraine is attracting international investors into wind, solar and battery storage, why distributed generation makes commercial as well as strategic sense, and how political risk insurance and development finance institutions are helping unlock projects. They also discuss the regulatory reforms needed to attract private capital, the challenge of corruption, and the potential for Ukraine to export electricity to neighbouring European markets. Topics covered in this episode: Ukraine's energy system under attackThe shift to distributed generationWhy renewables strengthen energy resilienceWhat winter is like to live throughFinancing energy projects during warWar risk insurance for private investorsAttracting international capital into UkraineUkraine's future in European electricity marketsLeadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Andrii Gerus’ bio: https://forumkyiv.org/en/speakers/andrii-gerusDmytro Boroday’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitryboroday/Horizon Capital: https://horizoncapital.com.ua/ European Energy Community fund: https://www.energy-community.org/Ukraine/Fund/overview.html Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Acronyms: CHP: Combined Heat and PowerTSO: Transmission System Operator DSO: Distribution System OperatorsIRR: Internal Rate of ReturnIC: Investment CommitteeGP: General PartnerLP: Limited PartnerEBRD: European Bank for Reconstruction DevelopmentIFC: International Finance CorporationDFI: Direct Foreign InvestmentPPA: Power Purchasing Agreement BESS: Battery Energy Storage SystemMIGA: Multilateral Investment Guarantee AgencyChapters: 0:00 Intro 1:06 Ukraine's Energy Crisis3:29 Soviet Energy System6:46 War Damage10:09 Distributed Energy13:31 Attracting Investors17:03 War Risk Insurance21:19 Corruption and Reform27:04 Investing in Reconstruction35:16 Financing New Renewables41:03 Investing During War47:26 Insurance Against War51:26 Invitation To Investors 53:58 Outro

    The Race to Rebuild Ukraine's Energy Infrastructure | Deep Dive 02: Andrii Gerus & Dmytro Boroday
  7. Oct 14

    How Energy Security Became National Security | Ep278: Alexander De Croo

    The world is facing a new era of geopolitical instability, rising energy costs and declining development finance. For many countries, access to reliable, affordable energy is no longer just an economic priority, it is a question of security. Recorded in New York during the United Nations General Assembly and Climate Week, this episode of Cleaning Up sees guest host Ana Rovzar, Chief of Staff at the Global Renewables Alliance, speak with Alexander De Croo, former Prime Minister of Belgium and now Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). They explore how renewable energy can reduce dependence on volatile fossil fuel markets, how decentralised energy systems can strengthen resilience, and what Ukraine’s experience reveals about protecting critical energy infrastructure. The conversation also examines how to attract investment in grids and clean energy, the decline in development assistance, and AI’s potential to accelerate progress. Topics covered in this episode: Energy security as national securityRenewables and fossil fuel dependenceFinancing the global energy transitionUkraine's decentralised energy reconstructionWhy grids are holding back progressDe-risking investment in emerging marketsTurning climate targets into actionAI's potential to accelerate developmentLeadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Alexander De Croo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderdecroo/ Ana Rovzar’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-rovzar-2546b149/ Achim Steiner on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2prrV1dPSUI Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Michael Liebreich’s Pragmatic Climate Reset:  https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i/Acronyms: UNDP: United Nations Development ProgrammeUNGA: United Nations General AssemblyUNEP: United Nations Environmental ProgrammeODA: Official Development AssistanceSDG: Sustainable Development GoalOECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and DevelopmentChapters: 00:00 Intro04:56 UNDP’s Mission07:11 Rethinking Development14:19 Energy Security17:39 Grids and Resilience25:52 From Ambition to Action28:23 Financing the Transition36:44 Development and Security41:27 De-risking Investment45:05 UN Funding50:06 AI and Development57:03 Outro

    How Energy Security Became National Security | Ep278: Alexander De Croo
  8. Oct 12 ·  Bonus

    How Ukraine Can Survive Another Brutal Winter | Ukraine Deep Dive 01

    It's been over four and a half years since Russia unleashed its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and still the war shows no sign of stopping. This week on Cleaning Up, we launch a new Deep Dive looking at Ukraine and how its people and energy systems cope through the war. In this first episode, Michael Liebreich travels to Kyiv to find out what is happening on the ground. How are people coping with these desperate and difficult circumstances? How is the energy system coping? What can we in the international community do to help? And what do we need to learn from Ukraine's energy workers, how have they managed to keep the lights on? In Kyiv, Michael meets Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, Deputy Head of the Kherson Regional Military Administration, to find out how a region on the frontlines is coping with constant bombardment from Russian drones and missiles. He also speaks with Sorina Seitvelieva and Emine Emirsalieva, co-owners of Musafir, a Crimean Tatar restaurant that’s become known as a resilience hub, keeping people fed and warm during winter. And he ventures to an electricity substation under renovation, where he is shown around Oleksandr Kozhukhar, head of the high-voltage network operations department at DTEK Kyiv Grids. Oleksandr tells Michael how he keeps his team safe as they repair Kyiv’s battered electricity system, and why it’s so dangerous being an energy worker in Ukraine.   From backup generators and emergency repairs to the challenges of protecting critical infrastructure from drones and missiles, the episode explores what resilience looks like in practice. It also asks what the rest of the world can learn from Ukraine’s experience, and what support is needed as the country prepares for another winter of war. Topics discussed in this episode: Energy workers repairing infrastructure under firePreparing Ukraine’s energy system for winterWhat life is like under constant drone attacksKherson’s fight to survive, and why civilians refuse to leaveHow local businesses are coping with damaged energy infrastructureThanks to all those who made this episode possible. In particular, Imogen Payter, Heather Buchanan and UK Friends of Ukraine, who've led over 30 parliamentary trips to Kyiv. Gary Edwards and the team at Frontier Global for keeping us safe. Special mention goes to Dominic Culverwell at the Kyiv Independent and Maria Vlokh for her help with translation. Jo Jagger for making sure it happened, the rest of the Cleaning Up team and our Leadership Circle. And to Oscar Boyd, who produced, filmed and edited this episode. Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links Oleksandr Tolokonnikov’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oleksandr-tolokonnikov/   Unbreakable Kherson book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbreakable-Kherson-Ukrainian-Wartime-Resilience/dp/B0H6CYRFH7 DTEK Group: https://dtek.com/en/ Musafir restaurant: https://www.musafir.com.ua/en/UK Friends of Ukraine: https://friendsofukraine.uk/ Kyiv Independent: https://kyivindependent.com/Sign up to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com“мета ”: Ukrainian meaning goal/purpose/aimChapters 00:00 Intro01:40 Journey Into Ukraine04:15 Life During War05:55 The Kherson Frontline09:26 Community Resilience12:38 Preparing For Winter13:31 Energy Security Lessons15:04 The Drone Warfare Threat19:03 Life In Kyiv20:40 Musafir Restaurant29:45 Keeping Ukraine Powered35:35 Lessons For Europe37:49 Outro

    How Ukraine Can Survive Another Brutal Winter | Ukraine Deep Dive 01
4.8
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About

Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

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