Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Michael Liebreich, Bryony Worthington
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  • News Commentary
  • Updated Weekly

Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

  1. Can Asia Ever Move Beyond Coal? | Ep264: Ravi Menon

    1d ago

    Can Asia Ever Move Beyond Coal? | Ep264: Ravi Menon

    Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the world, yet plays a unique role as one of Asia’s main financial and oil refining hubs. So how is it using its influence to help or hinder the transition? Ravi Menon has spent his career at the heart of Singapore’s economic and financial strategy, serving as Managing Director of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (the country’s central bank) before becoming the country’s Ambassador for Climate Action. In this conversation with Michael Liebreich, Menon explains why Asia’s energy transition will follow a different path from the West. With growing energy demand, dependence on coal and the need for affordable and reliable power, the challenge is not just building clean energy but replacing the systems already in place. They discuss Singapore’s role in shaping Asia’s future energy system, from cross-border electricity trade and new financing models to carbon markets, electric vehicles and the growing link between energy security and the move away from fossil fuels. Topics include: Why Asia’s path to net zero will look different from the West Singapore's unique challenges with decarbonization How growing economies can move past coal How to fund Asia’s enormous climate transition The future role of carbon markets in climate action The link between energy security and the shift to clean energy Singapore’s role as a catalyst for regional decarbonisation Newsletter: Sign up to the Cleaning Up newsletter at cleaninguppod.substack.com, for all the latest from the show, including new episodes of our Deep Dive Australia series.  Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Ravi Menon’s bio: https://www.impactsg.org/board/ravi-menon Fast-P Fund: https://www.fast-partnership.com/ Dr Ma Jun on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu6giWzTxAY Mark Carney on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtA5ufMzKAU Pierre Wunsch on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2xS5e5EGEg Rachel Kyte on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1m2lm2n_EE The Asian Development Bank: https://www.adb.org/what-we-do/topics/climate-change/overview CDM - Clean Development Mechanism: https://unfccc.int/process-and-meetings/the-kyoto-protocol/mechanisms-under-the-kyoto-protocol/the-clean-development-mechanism •GFANZ - Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero https://www.gfanzero.com/

    59 min
  2. How Australia Became The World's Battery Champion | Deep Dive Australia 01: Darren Miller

    3d ago ·  Bonus

    How Australia Became The World's Battery Champion | Deep Dive Australia 01: Darren Miller

    Today, Cleaning Up launches its Deep Dive Australia series. Featuring conversations with nine leaders of the climate and clean energy scene, the series explores where Australia is leading the world, where it is not, and how it got there. This is an important moment for Australia. The country was extraordinarily exposed to the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, being the largest per capita importer of diesel in the world. It's also uniquely dependent on China as the destination of its mineral exports and the source of a lot of its technology imports. And in November, Australia will be co-president with Turkiye of the COP Climate Summit in Antalya.  In the first of Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia series, Michael Liebreich speaks with Darren Miller, the CEO of ARENA (the Australian Renewable Energy Agency), the federal body responsible for deploying over $14 billion AUD in grants to clean energy projects across Australia. Michael Liebreich speaks with Darren about where Australia is leading the world, and where it still has ground to make up. They explore how ARENA funds innovation into pioneering clean tech, why Australia has quietly become the world's third largest battery market, and what it will take to turn the Pilbara's iron ore into green steel. They also discuss the Hydrogen Headstart Fund, the slow uptake of EVs, vehicle-to-grid, community batteries, and the moment the Hormuz crisis exposed Australia as the world's largest per capita importer of diesel. Topics include: How ARENA's funding model works and what makes it different from a typical government agency Australia's green iron and steel opportunity The Pilbara ore challenge Where Australia could achieve solar at $20 per megawatt hour How Australia became the world's third largest consumer battery market Transport electrification: vehicle-to-grid, EV charging, and the plug-in hybrid problem Sustainable Aviation Fuel: ARENA's newest frontier and the cost challenge ahead Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Newsletter: Sign up to the Cleaning Up newsletter at cleaninguppod.substack.com, for all the latest from the show, including new episodes of our Deep Dive Australia series.  Links: Darren Miller’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenhmiller/ ARENA https://arena.gov.au/ Liebreich: The Pragmatic Climate Reset - Part I | BloombergNEF Mariana Mazzucato on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7mhh53GOw Acronyms: AMGC - Australian Manufacturing Growth Centre ACAP - Australian Centre for Advanced Photovoltaics DNSP - Distribution Network Service Provider OEM -  Original Equipment Manufacturer UNSW - University of New South Wales SAF - Sustainable Aviation Fuel DRI - Direct Reduced Iron CEFC - Clean Energy Finance Corporation PERC - Passivated Emitter Rear Conductor Cell, HEFA - Hydroprocessed Esters and Fatty Acids

    1h 7m
  3. How The US Makes and Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: John Kerry

    Jun 24

    How The US Makes and Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: John Kerry

    Since Donald Trump returned to the Presidency in 2025, the US has become increasingly isolationist. It has pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and the IPCC, left the World Health Organisation, as well as a whole host of other international organisations and agencies. So, when President Trump leaves the White House, will the US be able to rebuild trust on the international stage? This week on Cleaning Up, former US Secretary of State and Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry sits down with Michael Liebreich and reflects on some of the defining diplomatic efforts of his career, from negotiating the Iran nuclear deal to helping secure the Paris Climate Agreement. Secretary Kerry explains how years of relationship-building and behind the scenes diplomacy helped bring Iran to the negotiating table and why he believes the original nuclear agreement succeeded in limiting Iran's nuclear programme. He also shares his frustration at what he sees as the dismantling of agreements and relationships that took years to build, and the challenge of restoring trust in US leadership on the global stage.  Secretary Kerry also shares his perspective on working with China, the importance of international cooperation, and the role diplomacy still has to play. They also discuss rebuilding trust in US leadership, and the shifting balance between the US and China in clean energy. Topics Include: How the Obama administration negotiated limits on Iran's nuclear programme The diplomacy behind the Paris Climate Agreement The meaning of "common but differentiated" in climate diplomacy Lessons from Kyoto, Paris and Dubai on international climate agreements Why engaging adversaries matters more than isolating them How can the U.S. rebuild trust on a global stage? Petrostate vs electrostate: the shifting US-China dynamic Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: John Kerry’s bio: https://galvanizeclimate.com/team/secretary-john-kerry Galvanize https://galvanizeclimate.com/ Our Ocean Conference https://www.ouroceanconference.org/ Todd Stern on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffnZzO6CMI8 Ernie Moniz on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shzlRv4MTY Acronyms: ADNOC - Abu Dhabi National Oil Company LNG - Liquified Natural Gas OPCW - Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons ESG - Environment, Social and Governance IRGC - Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps

    49 min
  4. Build Fast, Build Now: How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li

    Jun 17

    Build Fast, Build Now: How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li

    Professor Ning Li has spent decades at the intersection of energy, technology and industrial strategy. A nuclear engineer, complexity scientist and founding Dean of the School of Energy at Xiamen University, he is also credited with coining the term "Small Modular Reactor" nearly 20 years ago. In this wide-ranging conversation with Bryony Worthington, Ning Li explains why China has weathered recent global energy shocks better than many expected, how electrification is transforming economic resilience, and why solar panels, batteries and electric vehicles have become China's most important exports. They explore whether the world is really swapping dependence on fossil fuels for dependence on Chinese electrotech, why modularity has become the defining feature of successful modern technologies, and what lessons other countries can learn from China's rapid industrial scaling. The discussion also covers the future of nuclear power, the role of coal in supporting China's grid, the untapped potential of heat pumps, and why the energy transition should be framed not as a burden, but as an opportunity for growth. Topics include: Why China has been relatively resilient to oil and gas disruptions The rise of the "electrostate" China's new energy exports: EVs, batteries and solar Why modular technologies scale faster The origins of the Small Modular Reactor concept The changing role of coal in China's power system Heat pumps and industrial electrification Nuclear power's future in China Climate action as economic development Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Ning Li bio: https://thebreakthrough.org/people/ning-li Octopus’ Fiona Howarth on the EV partnership with BYD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL64XW5ZRBA

    1h 7m
  5. How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen

    Jun 10

    How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen

    Today, wind power accounts for just under 10% of all electricity globally, around the same as solar, recently overtaking nuclear power. 20 years ago, the figure was under 1%. In that time, the sector’s leadership has moved around from Europe to the US to Asia, but one specialist European manufacturer has stayed in the leading group throughout: Vestas — a member of the global wind energy aristocracy. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Henrik Andersen, CEO of Vestas, to discuss the extraordinary growth in the wind energy industry, the challenges it faces with rising interest rates and political hostility, and where the best place to build turbines is in 2026.  Together they do some myth-busting and answer: If wind is so great, why does it need subsidies?  Is wind pointless because it’s intermittent? Are turbines killing all the birds? What happens to the turbines at the end of their lives? Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Vestas’ website: https://www.vestas.com/en/pages/campaigns/sustainability/200-gw Henrik Andersen’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henrik-andersen-/ WindEurope 2026: From crisis to confidence — https://windeurope.org/news/windeurope-2026-from-crisis-to-confidence/

    57 min
  6. RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.

    Jun 3

    RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.

    For more than 15 years, the RCP8.5 climate scenario has shaped headlines, policy decisions, financial stress tests and public understanding of climate risk. Now, the scientific community has declared it implausible. So what comes next? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes Professor Roger Pielke Jr. back to explore why RCP 8.5 became the dominant "business as usual" climate scenario, and what its demise means for climate research, policymaking and public debate. They discuss the origins of the scenario, how assumptions about coal consumption drove projections beyond plausible futures and ask whether fear-based climate communication has ultimately helped or hindered public support for climate action. They tackle tipping points, extreme weather, climate policy, scientific self-correction, and the crucial question of how societies should respond to climate risk in a world that is still warming. Until recently, Roger was a tenured professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder. He is now senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and publishes an influential Substack called The Honest Broker. He last made an appearance on Cleaning Up in June 2022. If you want to know the background to the RCP8.5 controversy you should listen to that episode, linked below. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Van Vuuren’s 2026 paper on RCP8.5 becoming implausible: https://gmd.copernicus.org/articles/19/2627/2026/ Van Vuuren’s 2011 paper on the development of the Representative Concentration Pathways (RCPs): https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-011-0148-z The Honest Broker Substack: https://rogerpielkejr.substack.com/ Michael's writeup on RCP8.5: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/rcp-85-is-officially-bollox Roger Pielke Jr’s past appearance on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2LpMpkrP1w Johan Rockström on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/eIJkt_mY12s Jim Skea on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/oAWUdL5ZKsk

    1h 4m
  7. Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall

    May 27

    Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall

    As electricity demand rises and renewable generation continues to expand, the same question keeps arising: how do we keep power systems reliable, affordable and resilient? This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Håkan Agnevall, CEO of Wärtsilä, to discuss the changing role of flexible generation in modern electricity systems, the growing importance of grid stability, and why balancing technologies will be critical as renewables become an ever-larger share of the global energy mix. They explore how rapidly growing electricity demand, including from data centres, is reshaping investment decisions, why flexible gas generation may play an important transitional role, and how batteries, renewables and thermal assets can work together to build a more resilient power system. The conversation also examines the future of shipping decarbonisation following delays to the International Maritime Organisation’s proposed global carbon-pricing mechanism, the importance of fuel flexibility for vessel owners, and how digital technologies and AI are improving efficiency across industry. Håkan and Michael cover a wide variety of topics, including: Why flexible generation remains essential in renewable-heavy grids How growing electricity demand is changing energy infrastructure planning The role of gas engines, batteries and storage in maintaining grid stability What data centres mean for future power systems Shipping decarbonisation and the IMO's delayed carbon-pricing vote Fuel flexibility and efficiency in maritime transport How industrial companies are using AI to improve performance and reliability Energy security, competitiveness and the changing geopolitical landscape Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Wärtsilä's website: https://www.wartsila.com/ Episode 208 with Anders Lindberg, Wärtsilä's head of energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtsCCJ4o1WA Episode 229 with Professor Tristan Smith of UCL, on the delayed IMO agreement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUCidkeDto Episode 235 with Rob Dunn, inside the Start Campus data centre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w

    1h 1m
  8. Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich

    May 20

    Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich

    In this special episode of Cleaning Up from San Francisco Climate Week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack the geopolitical shocks reshaping the global energy transition. From escalating tensions in the Gulf and their impact on oil and LNG markets, to China’s accelerating electrification revolution, the conversation explores how energy security, industrial strategy and climate ambition are colliding in real time. Bryony and Michael debate whether the West can realistically compete with China’s manufacturing dominance, why electrification is becoming the defining energy strategy across Europe and Asia, and whether hydrogen has any meaningful role left to play. They also examine California’s energy paradox, the future of AI-driven electricity demand, and whether nuclear power can help meet the coming compute boom. Along the way, they tackle the politics of trade, the economics of resilience, the rise of clean tech nationalism, and the uncomfortable societal questions posed by artificial intelligence and automation. This episode covers: The energy implications of instability in the Middle East Why electrification is accelerating globally China’s EV and battery dominance The future of LNG, coal and renewables in Asia  Why Michael thinks hydrogen is dead policy walking AI, data centres and the coming electricity crunch California’s clean energy transformation Whether nuclear power can support the AI revolution Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Absolutely Electrifying - Ep158: Saul Griffith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=238XVTF4ang How Nvidia Made Chips 100,000x More Efficient | Ep215: Josh Parker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KtA9WKZ3U The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOaF-qQ_TU

    55 min
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4.8
out of 5
73 Ratings

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Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

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