SPILL THE (GREEN) TEA: How to talk about sustainability without getting called out

Katie Treggiden, Malin Cunningham
  • 4.9 (9)
  • Entrepreneurship
  • Updated Monthly

Making Design Circular is evolving. With a new name, a new remit, and a new co-host, this next chapter is all about one of the most urgent conversations in business today: how to talk about sustainability with honesty, nuance, and confidence. Katie Treggiden is joined by Malin Cunningham, founder of B Corp-certified B2B thought leadership consultancy Hattrick, to launch Spill the Green Tea – a podcast exploring how brands can communicate their environmental efforts without tipping into greenwashing… or disappearing into greenhushing. In a world saturated with content, polished claims, and call-outs, the real differentiator is authenticity. Together, Katie and Malin unpack how to share imperfect eco-efforts with clarity and credibility, so your sustainability story builds trust instead of backlash. Expect thoughtful conversations, practical insights, and honest reflections on what it really takes to speak up responsibly in today’s climate-aware marketplace. If you care about communicating sustainability in a way that stands up to scrutiny and still stands out, subscribe now and be the first to tune in to Spill the Green Tea PS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

  1. Spill The (Green) Tea with Dean Connell

    2d ago

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Dean Connell

    One of seven original designers at WeWork who helped create the coworking product that transformed the industry, Dean went on to lead design teams across New York, London, Shanghai and Tokyo, delivering more than 3 million square feet of workspace. That front-row seat to commercial real estate's endemic waste problem sent him in a new direction: in 2024, he completed the Circular Economy Masterclass at the University of Exeter Business School and launched his 'Circular by Design' furniture collection — a direct challenge to the throwaway culture he'd watched up close for two decades. But it's not the furniture that brings Dean to Spill the Green Tea. It's something he said on a panel at the Surface Design Show earlier this year that stopped Katie in their tracks: environmentalism needs a new narrative. In this episode, they dig into exactly what that means and what it looks like in practice. In this episode, we cover: Why ignorance might be our most environmentally unfriendly habit and why acknowledging what we don't know is not a weakness but the starting point for genuine progress The difference between spreading opinions about sustainability and doing the actual work within your unique sphere of influence, and why focusing on where you can have the most disproportionate impact matters more than sweating every detail Why the current environmental narrative is failing — when the language of fighting, saving, and activism only resonates with a narrow slice of society, the conversation stays small; true progress means communicating in ways that work for everyone, not just those with the luxury of caring How Dean helped redirect $98 million worth of furniture away from landfill by building a business case, not an activist campaign, and speaking the language of the boardroom How Dean's furniture collection makes circularity invisible to the consumer but baked into every material and production decision None of us can save the planet single-handedly but if we each play our part within our sphere of influence, that adds up to something far greater than all of us spreading ourselves too thin. Resources mentioned: Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder  Emotionally Durable Design: Objects, Experiences and Empathy by Jonathan Chapman Black and British: A Forgotten History by David Olusoga Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown AI News & Strategy Daily with Nate B. Jones Work in Progress by Dean Connell  The Ellen MacArthur Foundation Butterfly Diagram More from Dean Website: https://iamdc.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamdeanconnell More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    54 min
  2. Spill the (Green) Tea with Caroline Till

    May 13

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Caroline Till

    With expertise rooted in sustainable design and innovation, Caroline is a former founder and director of the Material Futures postgraduate course at Central Saint Martins. She is co-author of Radical Matter: Rethinking Materials for a Sustainable Future (Thames & Hudson) and guest curator of Our Time on Earth, which opened at the Barbican in 2022 and continues to tour globally. In this episode, we cover: Why sustainability needs to be uncoupled from innovation — as long as it sits inside an innovation budget, it's treated as experimental and therefore expendable; the real shift is understanding it imbues everything, from materials to product lines, and can't be ringfenced. Why the great green hush is driven by more than fear - economic and political instability makes companies default to risk aversion, and the hidden cost of going quiet is that marketing silence often kills the innovation budget alongside it. Why bold voices are the most underrated commercial asset - without visible leaders, businesses comfort themselves that they don't need to move; silence removes the precedent-setting that gives the whole sector permission to progress. The consistency problem - one of the most common mistakes Caroline sees is companies shifting their sustainability narrative every campaign cycle; being boring and consistent, she argues, is often the most effective communications choice available. The gap between earthy and aspirational — the sustainability communications world hasn't closed the gap between deep systems thinking and the seductive visual language of the commercial world; immersive, tactile, animation-led storytelling is the bridge. This conversation is ultimately about what happens when the courage to speak gets mistaken for the risk and why staying silent has consequences that run far deeper than staying safe. More from Caroline: Website: https://tiltfutures.co/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/tilt_futures/ LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tiltfutures/ & https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-till-b701626/ Resources mentioned: All About Love: New Visions by Bell Hooks From What Is to What If by Rob Hopkins Awe: The Transformative Power of Everyday Wonder by Dacher Keltner Accidental Gods Podcast hosted by Manda Scott Material Matters hosted by Grant Gibson GreenSHOUTING — Creatives for Climate Tipping Point East Material Cultures Superflux Marshmallow Laser Feast Too Good To Go Tarkett More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    56 min
  3. Spill the (Green) Tea with Rob Hopkins

    Apr 29

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Rob Hopkins

    Rob's two most recent books, From What Is to What If and How to Fall in Love with the Future, have made him one of the most distinctive voices in the climate space, not for telling people how bad things are, but for insisting that giving people something to long for is the most radical thing any of us can do.  In this episode, we cover: Why cynicism isn't clever, it's just lazy! It feels like intelligence because it's always proved right; you can forever find reasons to despair. But Rob argues it's a self-reinforcing spiral that actively prevents the kind of action that might change things, and that hopelessness isn't a breeding ground for good things.  "Hoping to" versus "hoping that" —passive hope (hoping that something will happen) is very different from active, grounded hope.  The cultivation of longing at scale is the biggest task of the climate movement, and the people who know how to cultivate desire aren't scientists, they're artists, poets, and the people who work in advertising.   The internet as a war on attention, and what that means for green communicators   What emerges from this conversation is both a provocation and an invitation. The future as we currently envision it is dark and scary and we need to create a sense of longing or what Rob calls “memories of the future” for a more positive outcome to give people something to move towards rather than run away from.  More from Rob Website: https://www.robhopkins.net/ Podcast: https://www.robhopkins.net/podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yoodooright1968 Resources mentioned:  From What Is to What If by Rob Hopkins  How to Fall in Love with the Future by Rob Hopkins  The Nutmeg's Curse: Parables for a Planet in Crisis by Amitav Ghosh   2040 — documentary by Damon Gameau, described as "an experiment in evidence-based dreaming"  Hurry Slowly podcast hosted by Jocelyn K. Glei  Screw This… Let's Try Something Else podcast hosted by Maryam Pasha and Matt Golding  Purpose Disruptors — a network of advertising insiders working to transform the industry to tackle climate change  Muslim Futures NK Tegelwippen — the Dutch national tile-flipping competition  More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    54 min
  4. The Net Zero conversation we've been avoiding - How to communicate when you're not on track

    Apr 15

    The Net Zero conversation we've been avoiding - How to communicate when you're not on track

    Inspired by an article by Solitaire Townsend, they explore why so many businesses are falling short, why both greenwashing and greenhushing are the wrong response, and what brave, honest communication could look like instead. In this episode, we cover: Why so many businesses set ambitious net zero targets without a clear plan to deliver them, and why a mass missing of those targets is now inevitable The systemic barriers beyond individual companies' control and why that makes the comms challenge so much harder The generational divide between those who set big, hairy, audacious goals and the Gen Z workforce inheriting them and what that means for how we communicate imperfect progress Why transparent, substantive communication about missing targets builds more credibility than silence A practical framework for what "brave" comms actually looks like: own what you've done, explain what you haven't and why, separate systemic barriers from organisational ones, and always include a "what now" The episode is equal parts reality check and rallying cry because talking honestly about imperfect progress isn't a comms risk, it's the most credible thing a brand can do right now. Resources mentioned: How to Dodge the Imminent Net Zero Mass Failure by Solitaire Townsend, Chief Solutionist at Futera  Accenture analysis (November 2024) the fourth annual Destination Net Zero report, provides a clear-eyed, empirical assessment of where the world’s largest companies stand on their decarbonization journeys  The Power of TED* (*The Empowerment Dynamic) by David Emerald — on moving from the drama triangle (victim/rescuer/persecutor) to empowered communicator, challenger and coach (this is an affiliate link) The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey — specifically the circles of control, influence and concern (this is an affiliate link) Eden, by Tim Smit (this is an affiliate link) The Carbon Literacy Project The Anti-Greenwash Charter 1% for the Planet Brand examples: Ace & Tate, Patagonia, Tony's Chocolonely, Fairphone   You can access the full episode transcript here More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    35 min
  5. 3Cs models that will change how you talk about sustainability

    Apr 1

    3Cs models that will change how you talk about sustainability

    In this Episode of Spill the (Green) Tea, Katie and Malin speak about how to communicate sustainability clearly, credibly, and without getting called out sharing their two different (but surprisingly aligned) 3Cs frameworks for navigating climate communications. Together, they unpack what it really takes to build trust, avoid greenwashing, and bring audiences with you on the journey, not just at the finish line. In this episode, we cover: Why clarity and action must come before communication Two practical 3Cs frameworks for stronger sustainability messaging How transparency and progress build trust, even when things aren’t perfect yet The shift from vague claims to confident, specific communication How to structure and layer your messaging so it actually lands This episode is a practical deep dive into what responsible sustainability communication actually looks like and how it’s rooted in clarity, action, and honesty.   Resources mentioned: Green Claims Code (UK guidance on environmental claims) Anti-Greenwash Charter B Corp Certification Science Based Targets initiative (SBTi) How Bad Are Bananas? By Mike Berners-Lee Small99 Toolkit- A fun and engaging way to learn about carbon emissions and start conversations on practical actions organisations can take for a better future. Climate change: Earth's giant game of Tetris - Joss Fong Oatly You can access the full episode transcript here More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    44 min
  6. Spill the (Green) Tea with Sangeeta Waldron

    Mar 18

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Sangeeta Waldron

    In this episode, Katie & Malin speak with Sangeeta Waldron, an author and award-winning communications specialist who helps organisations navigate the intersection of purpose, influence, and responsibility with a particular focus on climate change and decision-making under uncertainty. Sangeeta is the founder of Serendipity PR & Media, a Climate Reality Leader trained by Al Gore, and the global contributing editor for the India CSR Network. She has advised senior government officials and some of the world’s most influential organisations on ethical, effective, and culturally intelligent communication, and is a regular guest lecturer at UK universities. She is the author of three books, including What Will Your Legacy Be?, which was presented at Davos 2025, and Corporate Social Responsibility Is Not Public Relations, shortlisted for the UK Business Book Awards in 2022. As a keynote speaker and moderator, Sangeeta is known for bringing warmth, clarity, and deeply practical insight to complex conversations. In this episode, we cover: The power of honest, values-led communication in a polarised climate conversation How storytelling (not statistics alone) builds trust, engagement, and hope The danger of jargon, acronyms, and over-complicated language in sustainability messaging Why diversity of voices is essential in climate storytelling What companies get wrong about CSR when it’s driven by PR rather than values Greenhushing, greenwashing, and why silence can be just as damaging as spin Why admitting mistakes can strengthen credibility rather than undermine it This episode is a candid, hopeful conversation about how honesty, storytelling, and imperfect action can rebuild trust and move sustainability forward without fear or false perfection.   More from Sangeeta Website: http://www.serendipitypr.co.uk/ LinkedIn: @sangeetawaldron Instagram: @sangeeta.waldron Book: What will your legacy be? & Corporate Social Responsibility is Not Public Relations   Resources mentioned: What’s Your Dream by Simon Squibb Podcast: The Rest is Politics with Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart Project Drawdown®   You can access the full episode transcript here   More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    42 min
  7. Is Greenhushing more dangerous than Greenwashing?

    Mar 4

    Is Greenhushing more dangerous than Greenwashing?

    In this episode, Katie and Malin explore the growing tension between greenwashing and greenhushing, starting with clear definitions of both and why the distinction matters. They introduce Planet Tracker’s Greenwashing Hydra as a useful framework for understanding the different ways misleading environmental claims show up, and explain why greenwashing, while problematic, is at least visible and open to challenge, whereas greenhushing removes information altogether and reduces accountability.  The conversation looks at how increased scrutiny, regulation and confusion around the Green Claims Code have led many organisations to retreat into silence, even when they are making genuine progress. They also unpack the wider forces driving greenhushing, from perfectionism and fear of getting it wrong to political pressure, economic uncertainty and the complexity of sustainability data. Katie and Malin discuss why silence slows collective progress, weakens transparency and can lead to fear-based decision making within organisations. At the same time, they highlight the opportunity for “brave brands” to stand out through honest communication, build trust and loyalty, and strengthen relationships with customers, partners, investors and employees.  The episode sets the tone for this new series, that imperfect but transparent communication is far more valuable than saying nothing at all and is essential for moving towards a regenerative economy. In this episode, we cover: The difference between greenwashing and greenhushing Why greenhushing can be more damaging than greenwashing The Greenwashing Hydra framework and six types of greenwashing Why businesses hesitate to talk about sustainability The risks of silence and fear-based governance How honest sustainability storytelling builds trust and credibility Why transparency helps accelerate real progress   Resources mentioned: Planet Trackers The Greenwashing Hydra Competitions and Markets Authority, the government body behind the Green Claims Code Skills for Planet - Design Council Texas Tribune: Texas bans local, state government entities from doing business with firms that “boycott” fossil fuels Globally representative evidence on the actual and perceived support for climate action LinkedIn Green Skills Report Blue Rock Search report The Edelman Trust Barometer 2025 InComms article - ‘Why do so many comms chiefs have sustainability in their portfolio?   You can access the full episode transcript here   More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    41 min
  8. SPILL THE (GREEN) TEA: How to talk about sustainability without getting called out

    Feb 25

    SPILL THE (GREEN) TEA: How to talk about sustainability without getting called out

    Making Design Circular is evolving. With a new name, a new remit, and a new co-host, this next chapter is all about one of the most urgent conversations in business today: how to talk about sustainability with honesty, nuance, and confidence. Katie Treggiden is joined by Malin Cunningham, founder of B Corp-certified B2B thought leadership consultancy Hattrick, to launch Spill the Green Tea – a podcast exploring how brands can communicate their environmental efforts without tipping into greenwashing… or disappearing into greenhushing. In a world saturated with content, polished claims, and call-outs, the real differentiator is authenticity. Together, Katie and Malin unpack how to share imperfect eco-efforts with clarity and credibility, so your sustainability story builds trust instead of backlash. Expect thoughtful conversations, practical insights, and honest reflections on what it really takes to speak up responsibly in today’s climate-aware marketplace. If you care about communicating sustainability in a way that stands up to scrutiny and still stands out, subscribe now and be the first to tune in to Spill the Green Tea PS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    1 min
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Making Design Circular is evolving. With a new name, a new remit, and a new co-host, this next chapter is all about one of the most urgent conversations in business today: how to talk about sustainability with honesty, nuance, and confidence. Katie Treggiden is joined by Malin Cunningham, founder of B Corp-certified B2B thought leadership consultancy Hattrick, to launch Spill the Green Tea – a podcast exploring how brands can communicate their environmental efforts without tipping into greenwashing… or disappearing into greenhushing. In a world saturated with content, polished claims, and call-outs, the real differentiator is authenticity. Together, Katie and Malin unpack how to share imperfect eco-efforts with clarity and credibility, so your sustainability story builds trust instead of backlash. Expect thoughtful conversations, practical insights, and honest reflections on what it really takes to speak up responsibly in today’s climate-aware marketplace. If you care about communicating sustainability in a way that stands up to scrutiny and still stands out, subscribe now and be the first to tune in to Spill the Green Tea PS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

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