SPILL THE (GREEN) TEA: How to talk about sustainability without getting called out

Katie Treggiden, Malin Cunningham
  • 4.9 (9)
  • Entrepreneurship
  • Updated Semimonthly

Making Design Circular is evolving. With a new name, a new remit, and a new co-host, this next chapter is all about one of the most urgent conversations in business today: how to talk about sustainability with honesty, nuance, and confidence. Katie Treggiden is joined by Malin Cunningham, founder of B Corp-certified B2B thought leadership consultancy Hattrick, to launch Spill the Green Tea – a podcast exploring how brands can communicate their environmental efforts without tipping into greenwashing… or disappearing into greenhushing. In a world saturated with content, polished claims, and call-outs, the real differentiator is authenticity. Together, Katie and Malin unpack how to share imperfect eco-efforts with clarity and credibility, so your sustainability story builds trust instead of backlash. Expect thoughtful conversations, practical insights, and honest reflections on what it really takes to speak up responsibly in today’s climate-aware marketplace. If you care about communicating sustainability in a way that stands up to scrutiny and still stands out, subscribe now and be the first to tune in to Spill the Green Tea PS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

  1. Jul 15

    What good sustainability comms looks like

    In this episode, Katie and Malin record from the middle of the UK's second heatwave of the summer, with climate change dominating their feeds. Rather than add to the noise, they set out to do the opposite: share the good news stories they've gathered, proof that sustainability comms are being done well in plenty of places. From the green economy overtaking healthcare in market value, to furniture passports, tap water with a conscience, and a climate campaign borrowing its swagger from an unlikely source, this is Katie and Malin's antidote to doom-scrolling. In this episode, we cover: The green economy is too big to call niche — new figures show it's now worth $10 trillion and would be the third-largest sector in the world if counted on its own, directly contradicting the assumption that sustainability is either expensive or marginal. Second-hand is coming for the built environment — a Vinted-style matchmaking platform for reclaimed construction materials, spotted at Futurebuild, points to specifiers getting the same resale infrastructure that's already transformed how people buy clothes. Message layering, done properly — Deadgood's furniture passports give specifiers a simple traffic-light headline with full substantiation available underneath for anyone who wants it, a textbook example of Katie's Credible Comms Framework in action. The tell that separates real commitment from performance — a Danish water brand that tells customers to choose tap water over its own product if they can, and why what's served at industry events says as much about a brand's values as its official comms. Craving company, not protecting an edge — from a chocolate brand publicly celebrating the rival that beat it to the top of an impact ranking, to a lighting company happy to see its idea copied, genuine progress looks like inviting others in rather than guarding a competitive advantage. Serious doesn't have to mean solemn — a climate campaign that borrowed the look of "Make America Great Again" to put science back in the spotlight shows that playfulness and rigour can sit in the same sentence. Resources Mentioned London Stock Exchange Group — Green Economy Mark Report Futurebuild — the annual built environment sustainability conference and showcase Madaster — the circular real estate and materials platform behind "Madaster Match," the Vinted-style marketplace for reclaimed construction products Deadgood — the furniture brand behind the furniture passports Design Conformity — the sustainability certification and back-end partner behind Deadgood's furniture passports Dekiln and Johnson Tiles — the Manchester-born non-fired tile technology partnering with Stoke-on-Trent's Johnson Tiles to bring low-carbon tiles to market Postevand — the Danish B Corp tap water brand in plant-based cartons We Don't Have Time, and its Make Science Great Again campaign — Ingmar Rentzhog's campaign putting science at the centre of climate communication Positive News — referenced as a source of good-news stories to counterbalance heavy news cycles Check out the photos we mentioned here More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    What good sustainability comms looks like

  2. Jul 1

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Ingmar Rentzhog

    This episode digs into why Ingmar thinks the comms and marketing industry is the most under-recruited force in the climate movement and what he wants them to do about it. In this episode, we cover: Why the current climate narrative is failing and what it would take to fix it — Ingmar argues there's a gap between the polite sustainability crowd and the radical protesters, and that gap is exactly where humour, provocation and smart communications could live Why greenwashing discourse may be doing more harm than good — the climate movement, Ingmar argues, has a habit of attacking the companies that are trying while ignoring those that do nothing. We make a case for "calling in" rather than calling out and for redirecting criticism towards the companies staying silent beneath the radar Why W Social exists and what's different about it — with AI flooding existing platforms with disinformation and US-owned social media becoming increasingly unreliable, Ingmar and his team are building a European alternative that requires verified human identity to join More from Ingmar We Don't Have Time — Ingmar's global media platform for climate action; the world's largest of its kind W Social — the new European social media platform for verified humans; public beta launched June 17th Make Science Great Again — We Don't Have Time's campaign reclaiming the red cap and the slogan for science Resources mentioned: National Emergency Briefing — the UK initiative that briefed over 1,200 MPs, business and civic leaders on climate and nature science in November 2025; community screenings are ongoing across the UK via The People's Emergency Briefing film Berkana Institute Two Loops Model — the systems change model Katie references to explain how connectors and bridge-builders make impact even when it can't be measured in gallons of water; developed by Margaret Wheatley and Deborah Frieze Patagonia Work in Progress Report 2025 More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Ingmar Rentzhog

  3. Jun 17

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Charlie Martin

    Charlie's work is driven by a mission to promote honest communication, responsible leadership, and greater accountability in business. In this episode, Katie and Malin dig into the mechanics of trust, the cost of what you don't say, and why sustainability comms might be the most powerful trust-building tool a business has, if only more of them were brave enough to use it. In this episode, we cover: Why signing up to an anti-greenwash commitment feels like putting a target on your back — in the current climate of greenhushing, organisations worry that making a public commitment to responsible comms only invites closer scrutiny; Charlie argues that's exactly the point, and that showing leadership requires a degree of courage that the best actors are already demonstrating. Trust as a strategic asset, not a soft value — research into the FTSE 350 suggests as much as 28% of brand value is linked to trust signals, and yet most organisations have no formal strategy for building or measuring it; Charlie makes the case that sustainability comms is one of the most effective levers available, yet it's routinely abandoned out of fear. Why the 'where we can improve' section has to come first — one of the core requirements of the Anti-Greenwash Charter is that organisations publish a Green Claims Policy that leads with what they're not doing yet; putting the gap-acknowledgement at the front. What truMRK actually does and what it's trying to become — the verification service analyses sustainability reports across three dimensions (claim substantiation, use of language, and context), produces a scored Transparency Report, and optionally awards a verified badge If trust is built by consistently doing what you say you'll do and evidencing it over time, then sustainability comms isn't a risk to be managed; it's the infrastructure through which trust gets built. More from Charlie: The Anti-Greenwash Charter truMRK Connect with Charlie on LinkedIn Resources mentioned: Asket Impact Report Strategic Sustainability by John Pabon The Responsible Edge Podcast The CMA Green Claims Code Naked Paper Patagonia More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Charlie Martin

  4. Jun 3

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Dean Connell

    One of seven original designers at WeWork who helped create the coworking product that transformed the industry, Dean went on to lead design teams across New York, London, Shanghai and Tokyo, delivering more than 3 million square feet of workspace. That front-row seat to commercial real estate's endemic waste problem sent him in a new direction: in 2024, he completed the Circular Economy Masterclass at the University of Exeter Business School and launched his 'Circular by Design' furniture collection — a direct challenge to the throwaway culture he'd watched up close for two decades. But it's not the furniture that brings Dean to Spill the Green Tea. It's something he said on a panel at the Surface Design Show earlier this year that stopped Katie in their tracks: environmentalism needs a new narrative. In this episode, they dig into exactly what that means and what it looks like in practice. In this episode, we cover: Why ignorance might be our most environmentally unfriendly habit and why acknowledging what we don't know is not a weakness but the starting point for genuine progress The difference between spreading opinions about sustainability and doing the actual work within your unique sphere of influence, and why focusing on where you can have the most disproportionate impact matters more than sweating every detail Why the current environmental narrative is failing — when the language of fighting, saving, and activism only resonates with a narrow slice of society, the conversation stays small; true progress means communicating in ways that work for everyone, not just those with the luxury of caring How Dean helped redirect $98 million worth of furniture away from landfill by building a business case, not an activist campaign, and speaking the language of the boardroom How Dean's furniture collection makes circularity invisible to the consumer but baked into every material and production decision None of us can save the planet single-handedly but if we each play our part within our sphere of influence, that adds up to something far greater than all of us spreading ourselves too thin. Resources mentioned: Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder  Emotionally Durable Design: Objects, Experiences and Empathy by Jonathan Chapman Black and British: A Forgotten History by David Olusoga Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown AI News & Strategy Daily with Nate B. Jones Work in Progress by Dean Connell  The Ellen MacArthur Foundation Butterfly Diagram More from Dean Website: https://iamdc.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamdeanconnell More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    Spill The (Green) Tea with Dean Connell

  5. May 13

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Caroline Till

    With expertise rooted in sustainable design and innovation, Caroline is a former founder and director of the Material Futures postgraduate course at Central Saint Martins. She is co-author of Radical Matter: Rethinking Materials for a Sustainable Future (Thames & Hudson) and guest curator of Our Time on Earth, which opened at the Barbican in 2022 and continues to tour globally. In this episode, we cover: Why sustainability needs to be uncoupled from innovation — as long as it sits inside an innovation budget, it's treated as experimental and therefore expendable; the real shift is understanding it imbues everything, from materials to product lines, and can't be ringfenced. Why the great green hush is driven by more than fear - economic and political instability makes companies default to risk aversion, and the hidden cost of going quiet is that marketing silence often kills the innovation budget alongside it. Why bold voices are the most underrated commercial asset - without visible leaders, businesses comfort themselves that they don't need to move; silence removes the precedent-setting that gives the whole sector permission to progress. The consistency problem - one of the most common mistakes Caroline sees is companies shifting their sustainability narrative every campaign cycle; being boring and consistent, she argues, is often the most effective communications choice available. The gap between earthy and aspirational — the sustainability communications world hasn't closed the gap between deep systems thinking and the seductive visual language of the commercial world; immersive, tactile, animation-led storytelling is the bridge. This conversation is ultimately about what happens when the courage to speak gets mistaken for the risk and why staying silent has consequences that run far deeper than staying safe. More from Caroline: Website: https://tiltfutures.co/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/tilt_futures/ LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tiltfutures/ & https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-till-b701626/ Resources mentioned: All About Love: New Visions by Bell Hooks From What Is to What If by Rob Hopkins Awe: The Transformative Power of Everyday Wonder by Dacher Keltner Accidental Gods Podcast hosted by Manda Scott Material Matters hosted by Grant Gibson GreenSHOUTING — Creatives for Climate Tipping Point East Material Cultures Superflux Marshmallow Laser Feast Too Good To Go Tarkett More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Caroline Till

  6. Apr 29

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Rob Hopkins

    Rob's two most recent books, From What Is to What If and How to Fall in Love with the Future, have made him one of the most distinctive voices in the climate space, not for telling people how bad things are, but for insisting that giving people something to long for is the most radical thing any of us can do.  In this episode, we cover: Why cynicism isn't clever, it's just lazy! It feels like intelligence because it's always proved right; you can forever find reasons to despair. But Rob argues it's a self-reinforcing spiral that actively prevents the kind of action that might change things, and that hopelessness isn't a breeding ground for good things.  "Hoping to" versus "hoping that" —passive hope (hoping that something will happen) is very different from active, grounded hope.  The cultivation of longing at scale is the biggest task of the climate movement, and the people who know how to cultivate desire aren't scientists, they're artists, poets, and the people who work in advertising.   The internet as a war on attention, and what that means for green communicators   What emerges from this conversation is both a provocation and an invitation. The future as we currently envision it is dark and scary and we need to create a sense of longing or what Rob calls “memories of the future” for a more positive outcome to give people something to move towards rather than run away from.  More from Rob Website: https://www.robhopkins.net/ Podcast: https://www.robhopkins.net/podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yoodooright1968 Resources mentioned:  From What Is to What If by Rob Hopkins  How to Fall in Love with the Future by Rob Hopkins  The Nutmeg's Curse: Parables for a Planet in Crisis by Amitav Ghosh   2040 — documentary by Damon Gameau, described as "an experiment in evidence-based dreaming"  Hurry Slowly podcast hosted by Jocelyn K. Glei  Screw This… Let's Try Something Else podcast hosted by Maryam Pasha and Matt Golding  Purpose Disruptors — a network of advertising insiders working to transform the industry to tackle climate change  Muslim Futures NK Tegelwippen — the Dutch national tile-flipping competition  More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    Spill the (Green) Tea with Rob Hopkins

  7. Apr 15

    The Net Zero conversation we've been avoiding - How to communicate when you're not on track

    Inspired by an article by Solitaire Townsend, they explore why so many businesses are falling short, why both greenwashing and greenhushing are the wrong response, and what brave, honest communication could look like instead. In this episode, we cover: Why so many businesses set ambitious net zero targets without a clear plan to deliver them, and why a mass missing of those targets is now inevitable The systemic barriers beyond individual companies' control and why that makes the comms challenge so much harder The generational divide between those who set big, hairy, audacious goals and the Gen Z workforce inheriting them and what that means for how we communicate imperfect progress Why transparent, substantive communication about missing targets builds more credibility than silence A practical framework for what "brave" comms actually looks like: own what you've done, explain what you haven't and why, separate systemic barriers from organisational ones, and always include a "what now" The episode is equal parts reality check and rallying cry because talking honestly about imperfect progress isn't a comms risk, it's the most credible thing a brand can do right now. Resources mentioned: How to Dodge the Imminent Net Zero Mass Failure by Solitaire Townsend, Chief Solutionist at Futera  Accenture analysis (November 2024) the fourth annual Destination Net Zero report, provides a clear-eyed, empirical assessment of where the world’s largest companies stand on their decarbonization journeys  The Power of TED* (*The Empowerment Dynamic) by David Emerald — on moving from the drama triangle (victim/rescuer/persecutor) to empowered communicator, challenger and coach (this is an affiliate link) The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey — specifically the circles of control, influence and concern (this is an affiliate link) Eden, by Tim Smit (this is an affiliate link) The Carbon Literacy Project The Anti-Greenwash Charter 1% for the Planet Brand examples: Ace & Tate, Patagonia, Tony's Chocolonely, Fairphone   You can access the full episode transcript here More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    The Net Zero conversation we've been avoiding - How to communicate when you're not on track

  8. Apr 1

    3Cs models that will change how you talk about sustainability

    In this Episode of Spill the (Green) Tea, Katie and Malin speak about how to communicate sustainability clearly, credibly, and without getting called out sharing their two different (but surprisingly aligned) 3Cs frameworks for navigating climate communications. Together, they unpack what it really takes to build trust, avoid greenwashing, and bring audiences with you on the journey, not just at the finish line. In this episode, we cover: Why clarity and action must come before communication Two practical 3Cs frameworks for stronger sustainability messaging How transparency and progress build trust, even when things aren’t perfect yet The shift from vague claims to confident, specific communication How to structure and layer your messaging so it actually lands This episode is a practical deep dive into what responsible sustainability communication actually looks like and how it’s rooted in clarity, action, and honesty.   Resources mentioned: Green Claims Code (UK guidance on environmental claims) Anti-Greenwash Charter B Corp Certification Science Based Targets initiative (SBTi) How Bad Are Bananas? By Mike Berners-Lee Small99 Toolkit- A fun and engaging way to learn about carbon emissions and start conversations on practical actions organisations can take for a better future. Climate change: Earth's giant game of Tetris - Joss Fong Oatly You can access the full episode transcript here More from Katie Green, Not Greenwashed: Get the clarity and confidence you need to talk about your eco-efforts without the fear of greenwashing.Follow Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1More from Malin Greenwashing 101: Green or Greenwashed? Essential insights for sales and marketing professionals to make sense of sustainability and avoid falling into greenwashing's trap.Follow Malin on LinkedIn @malin-cunninghamPS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

    3Cs models that will change how you talk about sustainability
See All (48)

Trailer

4.9
out of 5
9 Ratings

About

Making Design Circular is evolving. With a new name, a new remit, and a new co-host, this next chapter is all about one of the most urgent conversations in business today: how to talk about sustainability with honesty, nuance, and confidence. Katie Treggiden is joined by Malin Cunningham, founder of B Corp-certified B2B thought leadership consultancy Hattrick, to launch Spill the Green Tea – a podcast exploring how brands can communicate their environmental efforts without tipping into greenwashing… or disappearing into greenhushing. In a world saturated with content, polished claims, and call-outs, the real differentiator is authenticity. Together, Katie and Malin unpack how to share imperfect eco-efforts with clarity and credibility, so your sustainability story builds trust instead of backlash. Expect thoughtful conversations, practical insights, and honest reflections on what it really takes to speak up responsibly in today’s climate-aware marketplace. If you care about communicating sustainability in a way that stands up to scrutiny and still stands out, subscribe now and be the first to tune in to Spill the Green Tea PS Looking for Brackish? That has a new home at https://brackishbykatietreggiden.substack.com/t/podcast

Information

You Might Also Like