The Case for Conservation Podcast

www.case4conservation.com

The case for conserving nature and its biodiversity needs to be robust and credible. Sometimes that requires a willingness to re-examine conventional wisdom.Monthly episodes of The Case for Conservation Podcast feature introspective conversations with fascinating experts - from ecologists to economists, young professionals to Nobel laureates,  journalists to media personalities.

  1. JAN 26

    63. What is the full cost of the energy transition? (Saleem Ali)

    This episode does not argue against renewable energy—renewables are essential to decarbonization—but it does ask what the transition looks like when you account for materials, extraction, and infrastructure. The clean energy transition is often framed as a straightforward swap: renewables replace fossil fuels, emissions fall, problem solved. But beneath that story sits a harder set of questions. How material-intensive is a renewables-led grid, really? What happens when you account for the steel, concrete, and critical minerals that make wind, solar, and battery storage possible? And if mining expands dramatically to enable decarbonization, what are the environmental and social trade-offs? To explore these questions, I spoke with Saleem Ali, a systems scientist and industrial ecologist at the University of Delaware who studies the “materials–energy nexus”—the idea that energy systems are constrained not only by fuels and emissions, but by infrastructure, extraction, and supply chains. We talk about why wind and solar can be surprisingly material-heavy up front, how storage options like pumped hydro compare with large battery farms, why nuclear and biofuels remain part of the conversation, and what a more pragmatic approach looks like when every option carries trade-offs. Links to Resources The fight over minerals for green energy — and a better way forward - Saleem's 2024 TED TalkVisit www.case4conservation.com

    42 min
  2. 09/15/2025

    60. What’s the role of youth in environmental decision-making? (Mika Tan)

    Multilateral environmental agreements (MEAs) are negotiated by national governments, but they also include input from various societal groups. One of these groups is youth, and their role in negotiations has grown more visible and coordinated over time. But are these contributions helping to enrich discussions and inspire ambition, or simply adding another layer to already complex processes? And why have separate groups if governments are meant to represent all of their citizens? In this episode, we take a closer look at the place of youth in forums like these — and what constructive and meaningful participation looks like. My guest is Mika Tan, advisor to the Southeast Asia chapter of the Global Youth Biodiversity Network (among other roles) and a passionate advocate for youth voices in global decision-making. Links to resources: Youth in international nature conservation: The example of youth participation in the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) - Analysis of the extent and quality of youth participation within the CBD (German article, English abstract).The contradictions of youth participation for intergenerational justice in urban environmental planning - An article that critiques the politicization of the application of intergenerational justice.Global Youth Biodiversity Network - Website of the organization that Mika mentions in our discussion.Visit www.case4conservation.com

    53 min
  3. 06/04/2025

    57. What are we getting wrong about biodiversity loss? (Maria Dornelas)

    The concept of biodiversity loss is absolutely integral to conservation, and I have never met anyone who has seriously challenged the idea that too many species are going extinct, nor that their extinction is a result of human pressures. So, what do we make of multiple studies telling us that we shouldn’t be focusing so much on biodiversity loss? These studies say that, on average in samples across the world, roughly equal numbers of sites are increasing in species richness and decreasing. Maria Dornelas is the ecologist, from the University of Lisbon and the University of St Andrews, at the centre of this research and she joins me to elaborate. It should be mentioned right at the start that Maria is not suggesting that biodiversity loss is not a problem, but she explains why she thinks we are doing conservation a disservice by focusing on it the way we do. Maria emphasized the importance of nuance in conversations about conservation, and this discussion is an illustration of the importance of avoiding too much generalization and simplification. Links to resources: Looking back on biodiversity change: lessons for the road ahead - 2023 article by Maria and colleagues.Assemblage Time Series Reveal Biodiversity Change but Not Systematic Loss - Maria's 2014 paper in Science, which announced the surprising results of her research.BioTIME - Global database of assemblage time series for quantifying and understanding biodiversity change.Inside Biodiversity - Related IDIV podcast that is referenced in the intro to this episode.Visit www.case4conservation.com

    54 min

About

The case for conserving nature and its biodiversity needs to be robust and credible. Sometimes that requires a willingness to re-examine conventional wisdom.Monthly episodes of The Case for Conservation Podcast feature introspective conversations with fascinating experts - from ecologists to economists, young professionals to Nobel laureates,  journalists to media personalities.