WFA's Better Marketing Pod with David Wheldon

World Federation of Advertisers (WFA)
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Hosted by WFA President David Wheldon, WFA's Better Marketing Pod in partnership with Meta looks at the marketing industry’s biggest stories and speaks to some of the industry’s most interesting characters who are shaping those stories.

  1. Ep 46: Grab CMO Cheryl Goh's playbook on how to 'cross swim lanes' for commercial impact

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    Ep 46: Grab CMO Cheryl Goh's playbook on how to 'cross swim lanes' for commercial impact

    Growth doesn’t start with an ad. It starts where your product decisions meet real people. We sit down with Cheryl, newly named Global Marketer of the Year, to unpack how Grab scaled across Southeast Asia by turning marketing into a true commercial engine—where product, pricing, algorithms, and culture work in sync to earn trust and drive results. We chart the journey from a scrappy airport-ride promo to a system of problem-space teams that cross swim lanes by design. Cheryl explains why immersion days keep leaders close to riders and drivers, how fair pricing principles became part of brand architecture, and where consensus can quietly kill velocity. Her hiring lens is refreshingly direct: seek commercial fluency, data and insights mastery, and relentless curiosity; then give those people room to orchestrate product, economics, and operations around the customer. Sustainability emerges as strategy, not slogan. Inclusive design and driver programmes widen supply, improve safety, and boost retention, turning social good into measurable outcomes. As AI becomes the growth engine, we explore why marketers must move upstream—shaping ranking, matching, and pricing so algorithms reflect brand values rather than rewrite them. The result is a practical playbook for CMOs, product leaders, and founders who want marketing to integrate the business, not decorate it. If you care about customer experience, fair pricing, and building teams that ship impact, this conversation offers field-tested ideas you can use now. Subscribe and share with a colleague. About Cheryl Goh Cheryl Goh is Group VP of Marketing and Sustainability and Founding CMO at Grab and the 2025 Global Marketer of the Year. Hand-picked by founder Anthony Tan despite her product and business development background, she scaled MyTeksi from 2012 origins into Southeast Asia's leading superapp across eight markets. She leads the full ecosystem, including product marketing, communications, growth, loyalty P&L (Grab VIP, Unlimited, Coins), sustainability, and customer support, while building a talent pipeline that has placed several of Grab's country heads. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    24 min

  2. 12/14/2025

    Ep 45: Is it all about AI? What's really shaping the CMO Agenda? - 2025 in review

    In this episode we review a year of conversations with Unicef's Frederique Covington Corbett, culture guru Marcus Collins, Cathay Pacific's Ed Bell, Meta's Nicola Mendelsohn, Marcel Marcondes from AB InBev and Global Marketer of the Year, marketing expert Seth Godin, Leyal Eskin Yilmaz from the Magnum Ice Cream Company, and Ogilvy's Rory Sutherland. These conversations led to one clear truth: the best marketing is still about people. We pull together the sharpest lessons for CMOs and brand leaders, cutting through the AI noise to focus on conviction-led leadership, intelligent human connection, and simple ideas that change behaviour. You’ll hear why building AI capability and governance is urgent, but also why tech belongs in the back office while human creativity runs the front. We share how to connect customer insight to commercial reality, and why that shift turns marketing from a cost into a value engine. We dive into the channels where customers already live—messaging platforms—and explain how click-to-message journeys, verified utility updates, and AI agents on WhatsApp are transforming service and commerce globally. Real stories show the upside: faster response times, higher satisfaction, and scalable conversations that still feel personal. Then we move beyond tools to the psychology that makes any of it work. Technology amplifies an idea; it doesn’t replace one. The most effective work pairs clarity and emotional intelligence, proving that a simple, useful solution beats a flashy campaign when it solves a real problem. Finally, we tackle the mindset. Choose your customers and clients with care, because those choices define your future. Lead with conviction, not convenience, even when it costs you. Make space for practical magic, the creative leaps that reconcile contradictions the spreadsheet can’t. As we look ahead, think human creativity as the front office, technology as the back office, and AI as a force multiplier—not the point. If that resonates, follow the show and share this roundup with your team. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    13 min

  3. 11/26/2025

    Ep 44: Rory Sutherland on fat-tailed marketing and why creativity outperforms efficiency

    The biggest wins in marketing rarely fit into neat dashboards. Rory Sutherland joins us to unpack why creativity is “fat-tailed,” how a few outlier ideas create the lion’s share of value, and why short-term incentives push teams to optimise what’s easy to count rather than what actually compounds. From “member since” on a card to names on Coke bottles, we dig into billion-dollar ideas that cost little to make but transform loyalty, fame, and lifetime value. David and Rory get honest about metrics and the bottlenecks they create. When every brand chases the same KPIs, platforms become toll roads and marketers pay rent for access. Rory argues for brand-specific measures that mirror your distinctive value, plus smarter routes to reach people without bidding wars, think influence, communities, and the “Cafe Nero” side door. They also contrast two economic worldviews: the tidy rational model that treats marketing as a cost, and the psychology-first approach that sees value as subjective, created in minds through service, design, and language. The conversation ranges from call centres as underestimated value engines to why family-owned firms often excel at brand building. David and Rory explore how an efficiency mindset blocks innovation by forcing either-or decisions, and how relational capitalism, trust over time, not transactional maximisation, builds resilient brands. The practical pivot: don’t just sell outputs; sell how you think. In an AI age, the durable advantage is reframing problems and resolving false trade-offs, turning contradictions into strengths. If you believe in magic, you’ll notice it, nurture it, and let it power growth. If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a colleague who needs a jolt of creative courage, and leave a quick review to help more marketers find us. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    36 min

  4. 10/01/2025

    Ep 43: Magnum Ice Cream's Leyal Eskin Yilmaz on Unilever, Minecraft ice cream and cultural relevance

    In this episode of the Better Marketing Podcast with David Wheldon, Leyal Eskin Yilmaz, CMO of Europe, UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand for the Magnum Ice Cream Company, shares insights on building a new marketing organisation as the business separates from Unilever. Key points covered: Creating a new company while running the business is like "building a new house while living in it".Each geographic market shaped Leyal's leadership approach differently - Turkey (agility), US (scale), UAE (cultural nuance), Netherlands (systems thinking).Turkish marketers excel globally because Turkey provides a "real-time MBA" with fast-changing markets and intense competition.The new company balances global brands (setting ambition) with local jewels (providing cultural relevance).Purpose remains central to the business strategy, with Ben & Jerry's setting industry standards.Cultural relevance requires long-term partnerships, demonstrated by their Minecraft collaboration.Inclusion and diversity initiatives focus on representation plus active sponsorship of diverse talent.AI is transforming marketing more than any other business function, triggering creativity when used properly.Modern CMOs need to embrace AI capabilities, actively shape culture, and position marketing as the business growth engine.Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    32 min

  5. 08/25/2025

    Ep 42: On story, strategy and stealing attention with marketing guru Seth Godin

    What happens when one of marketing's most influential thinkers shares his unfiltered wisdom about the state of our industry? Seth Godin joins the WFA Better Marketing Podcast to deliver profound insights that challenge conventional thinking about what makes marketing truly effective. Seth dismantles common misconceptions about marketing's purpose: "Marketing is about how we're going to tell a story that other people want to hear," he explains, emphasizing that great storytelling isn't an innate talent but a learnable skill developed through careful observation and adaptation. His pioneering concept of permission marketing, introduced decades ago, rings truer than ever in our attention-scarce digital landscape. The conversation explores the critical distinction between strategy and tactics that confounds many marketers. "A strategy is a philosophy of becoming. It's the hard work we do before the hard work," Seth explains. He contrasts enduring brands like Patagonia and Apple, whose core strategies have remained consistent for decades, with organizations that merely copy competitors in a tactical race to the bottom. Perhaps most powerfully, Seth reminds us that "when you pick your customers, you pick your future." This profound yet simple insight encourages marketers to cultivate relationships with clients who align with their values, even if that means walking away from those who don't. Ready to rethink your approach to marketing? Listen now for timeless wisdom that cuts through the noise and gets to the heart of what makes marketing truly matter. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    33 min

  6. 06/09/2025

    Ep 41: On marketing as the bridge between consumer and business with Marcel Marcondes, AB InBev

    The marketing landscape is undergoing profound shifts, requiring marketers to rethink traditional approaches. At the forefront of this evolution stands Marcel Macondes, AB InBev's Global CMO and winner of the 2024 WFA Global Marketer of the Year award. His philosophy brings a refreshing clarity to how marketing should function today: as a bridge between consumers and business. Throughout this compelling conversation, Marcel talks about how AB InBev now owns eight of the world's ten most valuable beer brands. AB InBev's success stems not from treating marketing as a separate function but from deeply integrating consumer insights into business operations. "In the past, marketers would work to say, 'this is what we do, now let's convince consumers about it,'" Macondez explains. "Given how the world is evolving, our job has changed – we need a strong pulse on what's happening with consumers, then adjust how we work to serve them better." What sets truly exceptional marketing leaders apart? Marcel points to a pivotal career milestone: "The transition between following the agenda to driving the agenda." This shift from management to leadership creates the conditions for marketing to flourish as "the key architect of growth" within organizations. Through the "One ABI Way of Marketing" framework, developed over two years, AB InBev has systematized this approach while maintaining the agility to incorporate emerging trends and technologies. Perhaps most refreshingly, Marcel approaches innovation with balanced wisdom. Rather than viewing AI as disruptive, he embraces it as an enhancement: "AI is here to help us and support us." This exemplifies his guiding principle for marketing leaders: be very ambitious, but also very humble – pushing for excellence while remaining open to continuous learning in an increasingly complex landscape. Ready to transform your marketing approach? Start by deeply understanding both your consumers and your business, then build the bridge between them with creativity, consistency and an unwavering focus on delivering value. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    30 min

  7. 04/28/2025

    Ep 40: On agency experience, AI and messaging with Nicola Mendelsohn, Meta

    In this episode of the Better Marketing Podcast, Nicola Mendelsohn, Meta's Head of Global Business Group, shares insights on how Meta is transforming from a teenage platform to a mature business partner for advertisers with innovative tools, AI implementation and a renewed focus on effectiveness. From her early agency days to her pivotal role at Meta over the past 12 years, Mendelsohn brings a unique perspective that bridges creative thinking with technological innovation. Between Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses that translate languages in real-time and the revelation that messaging platforms are becoming the new frontier for brand-consumer relationships (with over 600 million daily messages between people and businesses), Mendelsohn paints a picture of marketing's near future that feels both exciting and tangible. To CMOs, Mendelsohn says the following: embrace messaging, leverage AI ethically and prepare for a world where every business will have AI agents representing their brand. The future isn't just coming — it's already here for those ready to seize it. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    28 min

  8. 04/02/2025

    Ep 39: Cathay Pacific’s Ed Bell on their marketing secret plus lessons from Asia for marketers

    What does it take to rebuild an airline brand after the devastating impact of a global pandemic? Ed Bell, General Manager Brand, Insights and Marketing Communications at Cathay Pacific, takes us behind the scenes of one of aviation's most remarkable recovery stories. Bell's journey from agency dynamo during China's economic boom to airline marketing leader offers a masterclass in resilience and strategic thinking. Having worked on iconic launches like the Motorola Razr and Beijing Olympics with Adidas, he brings a unique perspective on what truly drives consumer choice in premium markets. At the heart of Cathay Pacific's revival is a refreshingly straightforward philosophy: happy staff create happy customers, who in turn generate strong financial results. During the darkest days of the pandemic, when budgets disappeared and uncertainty reigned, the airline doubled down on celebrating their employees through "Cathay Stories" - showcasing extraordinary acts of dedication that maintained morale when it mattered most. Rather than competing through flashy amenities, Cathay embraces "human-centric design" - creating experiences that make passengers feel genuinely at home. This approach extends from their more residential-feeling lounges to communications that emphasize emotional connection rather than feature lists. As Bell explains, they position themselves as "the winds beneath your wings," not the star of the show. For marketers in any industry, Bell's insights on measuring effectiveness are particularly valuable. Through sophisticated modelling, Cathay has quantified that brand emotions drive approximately 50% of consumer choices, with a 1% increase in consideration across just four markets translating to half a billion dollars in value. This data-driven approach helps marketing secure its rightful place in business strategy conversations. Listen now to discover how Cathay Pacific is soaring again, and why Bell believes that regardless of technology trends, "the battle for business starts in the mind" of your customers. About Ed Bell, General Manager Brand, Insights and Marketing Communications, Cathay Pacific Ed Bell is responsible for the development of brand strategy, consumer insights, loyalty marketing and marketing communications for the Cathay Pacific group globally. He has spent the majority of his career in marketing strategy and later as a CEO for marketing and communication consultancies across Asia and Greater China, working for a diverse set of brands and businesses. A seasoned marketing professional, he is the recipient of the prestigious IPA and Jay Chiat awards for marketing effectiveness and strategy and is a regular author and speaker. Originally from Melbourne, Ed trained in psychology and later marketing. He is married with three children and calls Hong Kong home. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

    32 min
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Hosted by WFA President David Wheldon, WFA's Better Marketing Pod in partnership with Meta looks at the marketing industry’s biggest stories and speaks to some of the industry’s most interesting characters who are shaping those stories.

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