OT for Inclusive Occupations: Stories of Not Just Being Invited to the Party but Dancing

Savitha Sundar
  • 4.9 (31)
  • Education

This podcast is for school-based occupational therapists and other educators who are invested in creating a more inclusive world for their students.

  1. Jun 5

    Season 5, Episode 6: Partnering for Change (P4C Model): Reimagining School-Based Occupational Therapy Service Delivery — Dr. Wenonah Campbell

    In this episode of Inclusive Occupations, host Savitha Sundar speaks with Dr. Wenonah Campbell—the John and Margaret Lillie Chair in Childhood Disability Research, Associate Professor at McMaster University, Scientist at CanChild, and co-developer of Partnering for Change (P4C). Dr. Campbell’s work focuses on improving school-based occupational therapy service delivery to promote inclusion, participation, and engagement in learning. P4C is an evidence-informed, collaborative model that brings therapists, educators, and families together to identify student needs, share expertise, and develop strategies that support children’s participation in everyday school activities. Together, Savitha and Dr. Campbell explore how occupational therapists can move beyond traditional referral-based and pull-out service models toward more collaborative, context-based, and capacity-building approaches in schools. In this conversation, Savitha and Dr. Campbell explore: 🌱 Partnering for Change (P4C) How P4C developed as a collaborative model of school-based OT focused on participation, inclusion, and engagement. 🏫 School as the Natural Context Why OT support is most meaningful when embedded in classrooms, routines, transitions, and everyday school activities. 🤝 Collaboration and Capacity Building How therapists, educators, and families can work together to identify needs, share strategies, and build inclusive school communities. 🧩 Tiered and Flexible Service Delivery How universal, targeted, and individualized supports can help OTs respond earlier and support more students in context. 📚 Research to Practice Dr. Campbell discusses the importance of knowledge mobilization—ensuring that research informs real-world school practice and policy. 🔄 From Service Provider to Systems Partner The conversation invites school-based OTs to see themselves not only as direct service providers, but as collaborative partners who can influence routines, environments, and systems to support student participation and belonging. Resources & Links Partnering for Change Website https://canchild.ca/discover-canchild/current-studies/partnering-for-change/ Partnering4Change Guide to Success https://p4cguide.com/⁠ This online hub includes an evidence-based, step-by-step guide to help school teams build a strong foundation for P4C through collaborative, capacity-building approaches, along with additional implementation resources such as courses, webinars, a video library, and practical tools. Dr. Wenonah Campbell — CanChild / McMaster University Information about Dr. Campbell’s research on school-based health support services, inclusion, participation, engagement, and knowledge mobilization.-https://canchild.ca/team_members/10-dr-wenonah-campbell/ Podcast transcripts available at https://otter.ai/u/YISaqlUYJOH5rjzmHFIIt1fnL68?utm_source=copy_url

    Season 5, Episode 6: Partnering for Change (P4C Model): Reimagining School-Based Occupational Therapy Service Delivery — Dr. Wenonah Campbell

  2. Mar 17

    Season 5, Episode 5: The EMPOWER Model for Neurodivergence Affirming Occupational Therapy Practice- Bryden Carlson-Giving

    In this episode of Inclusive Occupations, host Savitha Sundar speaks with Bryden Carlson-Giving—a multiply disabled, multiply neurodivergent, queer occupational therapist, artist, and creator of the Empower Model, a neurodiversity-affirming framework for occupational therapy. Bryden shares his professional journey—from working in an ABA clinic, recognizing practices that felt harmful, and intentionally seeking out autistic perspectives—to ultimately leaving that setting and developing a model that centers neurodivergent participation, lived experience, and disability justice within occupational therapy practice. Together, Savitha and Bryden explore how occupational therapists can rethink traditional approaches and move toward practices that support authentic neurodivergent development, identity, and belonging in school and community environments. In this conversation, Savitha and Bryden explore: 🌱 Neurodiversity & Neurodivergence ⚖️ Ableism in OT and Education How ableism can show up in IEPs, evaluations, “functional” goals, and behavior expectationsWhy saying “we’re not ABA” is not enough if occupational therapy continues to rely on compliance-based, neuronormative practices🌟 The Empower Model Bryden introduces the Empower Model, a neurodiversity-affirming framework grounded in four foundations: Strengths-based practiceTrauma-informed careAnti-racismDisability justiceAt the center of the model is lived experience, which serves as the connective thread guiding meaningful and ethical occupational therapy practice. Bryden describes the anti-ableist process that includes: Critical reflexivityInclusive evaluationsAffirming services and supportsNeurodivergent outcomesAdvocacy🏫 Belonging and Educational Placement Bryden challenges listeners to rethink segregation in education and emphasizes the idea that: (a) “All students are general education students first.” (b) The conversation explores how we can reimagine special day classes, segregation by disability, and what true belonging in general education could look like.🤝 From Compliance to Collaboration Bryden encourages occupational therapists to rethink how they respond to behaviors often labeled as “non-compliance.”Instead of focusing on control, practitioners can approach these moments through:Co-regulationCuriosityMeaningful participation goalsThis shift invites therapists to ask deeper questions:Is this skill meaningful to the student?Is the environment supportive?What expectations or systems might need to change?🧭 Working Within Ableist Systems Bryden also discusses the realities of practicing within imperfect systems and how therapists can sustain themselves through: Avoiding burnout from trying to fix the entire system aloneValuing micro-advocacy—small but meaningful shifts in conversations and practiceGiving ourselves grace when we cannot challenge everything, all the timeResources & Links Mentioned in the Episode Bryden’s Website:https://neurodivergentnexus.com  Resources, tools, and updates on the Empower Model and Bryden’s upcoming book. The Empower Model A neurodiversity-affirming occupational therapy framework centered on strengths-based practice, trauma-informed care, anti-racism, disability justice, and lived experience Upcoming Open-Access Article (OJOT) A forthcoming article detailing the Empower Model and practical examples for occupational therapy practice. (Link will be added once published.) Empower Model Action Template A planning and reflection tool designed to help practitioners apply the model with real students. (Link will be added once the resource is published.) Podcast transcripts available at Otter.ai- https://otter.ai/u/MfPnD7hB-fR0ihps8f1q1SrZQAg?utm_source=copy_url

    Season 5, Episode 5: The EMPOWER Model for Neurodivergence Affirming Occupational Therapy Practice- Bryden Carlson-Giving

  3. Feb 9

    Season 5, Episode 4: The 9-Step Inclusive IEP Process- Dr. Jessica Apgar

    In this episode of Inclusive Occupations, host Dr. Savitha Sundar welcomes Dr. Jessica Apgar, educator, scholar, and researcher for 16 years. Dr. Apgar spent 8 years as a dual-certified inclusive educator in public schools and has worked with pre- and in-service teachers for the past 11 years. Her professional interests include inclusive education, systems change, literacy, and curricular alignment—all in service of social justice through high-quality, rigorous instruction, particularly for students with the most extensive support needs. In this conversation, Savitha and Dr. Apgar spotlight a powerful tool created by a team of educators-turned-researchers- Jessica Apgar , Kate MacLeod, and Michael McSheehan : The 9-Step Inclusive IEP Process.Together, they unpack how inclusive education truly begins with an inclusive IEP—one that moves beyond compliance to intentionally design for access, participation, and belonging across the school day. Together, Savitha and Dr. Apgar explore:🌟 Why inclusive education begins with an inclusive IEP—and the common traps that keep IEPs from translating into real participation.🧭 The 9-step process, step-by-step—how each step builds clarity, shared responsibility, and actionable supports.🧑‍🏫 Team collaboration that works—how to bring general educators, special educators, related service providers, and families into a unified plan.📚 Literacy and curricular alignment—strengthening rigor and access for students with extensive support needs.🏫 Designing for real school routines—how IEPs can support inclusion across classroom instruction, specials, lunch, recess, transitions, and extracurriculars.✅ Making it sustainable—turning inclusive intent into consistent implementation through repeatable team structures. Inclusive IEPs are not paperwork—they are blueprints for belonging. When we plan intentionally for access and participation, we reduce “invisible barriers” and create clear supports that teachers can actually implement. Dr. Apgar offers a roadmap for systems change that is both values-driven and practical for real schools. ​Inclusion doesn’t happen after the IEP—it is designed in the IEP.​Strong IEPs translate into clear supports in real contexts, not just goals on paper.​Shared processes and shared language make inclusive planning more efficient and more consistent.​Rigor, literacy, and curricular alignment are essential for meaningful inclusion—especially for students with the most extensive support needs.​Key Takeaways, Resources & Links:​1. The 9-Step Inclusive IEP Process Template by Jessica Apgar, Kate MacLeod and Michael McSheehan. - Click Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1conn6_Dy7qkX9g8IEvVgi3XjSwIZe-n0/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=113473970588582202532&rtpof=true&sd=true) ​2. The Continuum of Supports (NOT Placements) by.Michael McSheehan, Jessica Apgar, Debbie Taub, Mary Schumer andKate MacLeod) https://courses.evolveandeffect.com/products/digital_downloads/Continuum-of-Supports ​3. Creating Inclusive Individualized Education Program- Microcredentials: https://farmington.edu/academics/graduate-continuing-education/graduate-academics/creating-inclusive-individualized-education-programs-micro-credential/​Podcast transcripts available at Otter.ai: https://otter.ai/u/QgDqitCxJ9Kb9M--WcQXTvYUDfI?utm_source=copy_url

    Season 5, Episode 4: The 9-Step Inclusive IEP Process- Dr. Jessica Apgar

  4. Jan 20

    Season 5, Episode 3: "Interoception & Inclusion: Empowering Every Student Through Body Awareness" - Kelly Mahler

    In this episode of Inclusive Occupations, host Savitha Sundar welcomes Kelly Mahler, OTD, OTR/L—occupational therapist, educator, and internationally recognized voice in interoception and mindful self-regulation. Kelly is the creator and author of The Interoception Curriculum, a widely used, step-by-step framework that helps learners notice body signals, connect them to emotions, and choose supportive actions. In this conversation, Savitha and Kelly unpack why interoception is foundational to inclusion—especially for students with extensive support needs, autism, anxiety, sensory differences, or complex communication profiles. They explore how “behavior” is often communication of internal discomfort, and how OTs can support students’ participation across real school routines by building body awareness and emotional insight. Together, Savitha and Kelly explore: 🌟 What interoception is —and why it’s often overlooked in school-based support. 🧠 Body–Emotion–Action—a simple framework to teach self-awareness and self-regulation with consistency across adults. 🏫 School-ready strategies—how to embed interoception support into morning meeting, transitions, lunch, recess, specials, and academic tasks. 🗣️ Supporting students with limited expressive language/AAC users—making internal states visible, teachable, and actionable. 🤝 Collaboration that sticks—how to coach teachers and paraprofessionals with shared language and quick routines (not “one more program”). ✅ Practical starting points—small changes that build regulation and participation without disrupting instruction. Key Takeaways Resources & LinksInteroception isn’t just a “self-regulation topic”—it’s a pathway to access, communication, dignity, and belonging. When students understand their body signals, they gain tools to advocate for needs, persist through demands, and participate more fully with peers. Many challenges in the classroom are better understood as body-signal confusion, not “noncompliance.” Teaching interoception is most effective when it is explicit, routine-based, and shared across the team. Inclusion improves when we support the “invisible barriers” (stress, discomfort, confusion, overload) that limit participation. OTs are uniquely positioned to bridge body awareness → regulation → participation in natural contexts. Check out Kelly Mahler’s website for a wealth of resources and offerings- https://www.kelly-mahler.com/ Kelly’s research on Interoception- https://www.kelly-mahler.com/kellys-research/ Interoception 101 videos and other free resources- https://www.kelly-mahler.com/interoception-videos/ “My Interoception Workbook” (adolescents/teens/young adults): https://www.kelly-mahler.com/product/my-interoception-workbook-a-guide-for-adolescents-teens-and-young-adults/ Book your training with Kelly -https://www.kelly-mahler.com/learn-with-kelly/book-kelly/ Podcast Transcripts Available at Otter.ai-https://otter.ai/u/OdjTVQpHLGBEOmYEkt--8jRrU9c?utm_source=copy_url

    Season 5, Episode 3: "Interoception & Inclusion: Empowering Every Student Through Body Awareness" - Kelly Mahler

  5. 10/03/2025

    Season 5, Episode 2: "FLIP Recess: Transforming Social Connections for Students with Disabilities"Dr. Mathew Brock

    In Episode 2, Season 5 of Inclusive Occupations, host Savitha Sundar welcomes Dr. Matthew Brock, a Professor of Special Education and Faculty Associate at the Crane Center for Early Childhood Research and Policy. His research focuses on inclusive practices for students with significant cognitive disabilities, with an emphasis on peer-mediated interventions, preparing teachers and paraeducators to implement evidence-based strategies, and literacy supports for students with complex communication needs. A former preschool and elementary school teacher and U.S. Peace Corps educator, Dr. Brock has published over 60 peer-reviewed articles, authored It Isn’t Inclusion Without Peers, and secured more than $6 million in federal grants, including a Fulbright award in Mongolia. His work has earned national recognition, including the 2023 Martin J. Kaufman Distinguished Early Career Research Award, the 2021 CEC Research Award, and placement in Stanford’s World Ranking of Top 2% of Scientists. In this episode, Dr. Brock introduces the FLIP Recess Program (Focus on Learning, Interaction, and Play) — a $3.2 million grant-funded project designed to foster meaningful peer interactions and social connections for students with extensive support needs during recess. Implemented in over 30 schools and involving more than 100 students with disabilities and hundreds of peers, FLIP is already demonstrating powerful results. Together, Savitha and Dr. Brock explore: 🌟 The origins of FLIP – how his teaching experiences shaped a shift from adult-led strategies to peer-centered models of inclusion. 🎥 Two components of FLIP – peer mediation and video modeling – and how these intentional supports enable authentic play, communication, and friendships. 📊 Research findings – dramatic increases in peer interactions, social network connections, and participation beyond recess. 🚧 Barriers and solutions – from scheduling challenges to misconceptions about workload, and how creative problem-solving (even AI-assisted scheduling!) makes FLIP feasible in schools. 🧩 The role of occupational therapists – why OTs are uniquely positioned to support recess participation, communication access, and collaborative IEP goals that extend beyond fine motor skills. ❤️ Personal journey – how Dr. Brock’s background, including growing up with a sister with Down syndrome, fuels his commitment to inclusive education. Inclusion doesn’t have to be complicated—practical, peer-centered approaches like FLIP can transform school culture. Recess is more than a break; it’s a critical occupation for building friendships, belonging, and community. Occupational therapists and educators can collaborate to create sustainable, inclusive practices that extend beyond the classroom. Learn more about Dr. Brock’s work and his book, It Isn’t Inclusion Without Peers. Key TakeawaysResources & Links All About the FLIP Recess: https://crane.osu.edu/our-work/focus-on-interaction-learning-and-play-flip/ Dr. Brock's Book- It Isn’t Inclusion Without Peers: https://a.co/d/duZaNPq Podcast Transcripts Available at Otter.ai-https://otter.ai/u/auYOBJpYVdKYnFF2RxBPhzEWb0w?utm_source=copy_url

    Season 5, Episode 2: "FLIP Recess: Transforming Social Connections for Students with Disabilities"Dr. Mathew Brock

  6. 08/30/2025

    Season 5, Episode 1: “B.E.T.T.E.R Ed: Transforming Disability Awareness in Schools”

    In this kickoff to Season 5, Savitha Sundar welcomes Amrita Sareen-Tak and Kaya Duggan, the dynamic duo behind B.e.t.t.e.r Ed Guide, an initiative dedicated to transforming how schools approach disability awareness and inclusion. Drawing from their personal journeys as parents and advocates, Amrita and Kaya share how their experiences inspired them to create tailored workshops and immersive programs that foster inclusive mindsets in school communities—especially in independent (private) schools.The conversation explores: The meaning behind the BETTER acronym: Battle stigmas, Embracing differences, Transforming thinking, Teaching future leaders, Eliciting action, Recognizing strengths. Why disability must be recognized as a vital part of human diversity and identity. Practical strategies for integrating disability studies concepts across curricula and school culture. Real-life stories of inclusion, challenges, and progress in both public and private school settings. The power of student agency, universal design for learning, and the need for intentional efforts to foster belonging. Key Takeaways: Inclusion is a collective, ongoing process that benefits all students. Language, mindset, and intentional action are critical to dismantling ableism in schools. Empowering students and educators with disability studies frameworks leads to lasting change. Everyone—educators, parents, and students—can play a role by being curious, asking questions, and embracing discomfort as a path to growth. Call to Action: Explore resources on disability studies and accessibility, such as “Demystifying Disability” by Emily Ladau. Be curious and ask questions to challenge inequalities in learning environments. Bring new concepts and resources into your classroom or community. Resources Mentioned: “Demystifying Disability” by Emily Ladau Connect with Better Ed Guide:Learn more about Amrita and Kaya’s work at www.betteredguide.com Podcast Transcript: https://otter.ai/u/X0fk8HQwnOkuz1HQhLiaFchg8ec?utm_source=copy_url

    Season 5, Episode 1: “B.E.T.T.E.R Ed: Transforming Disability Awareness in Schools”

  7. 07/09/2025

    Inclusion Story 6: When Faith Meets Disability- A Mother's Perspective on Acceptance and Advocacy: Meet Jeropha Shekinah

    In this season finale of Inclusive Occupations, we turn our attention to a topic often left at the margins—but one that belongs at the heart of our conversations: spirituality—defined as a deep sense of connection to something greater than oneself, often rooted in the search for meaning, purpose, and belonging. Our guest, Jeropha Shekinah, is a mother and graduate student specializing in religious ministries for individuals with disabilities and their families. She shares her transformative journey shaped by the birth and diagnosis of her son, Jeriel, who lives with autism and intellectual disabilities. Together, Dr. Sundar and Jeropha explore themes rarely addressed in traditional faith or disability dialogues—how religious communities can either empower or unintentionally alienate, and how spirituality can serve as a wellspring of strength, clarity, and belonging for families navigating the world of disability. Topics Explored: ​Parenting without a manual—but guided by divine wisdom​Moving from “fixing” to fully accepting​Finding unexpected moments of community and grace​Challenging cultural assumptions and religious misconceptions​Advocating for joy, choice, and strengths-based inclusion in schools and worship spacesKey Takeaways: ​Every child brings unique strengths—if we have the eyes to see them.​Inclusion isn’t about tolerance; it’s about celebrating the image of God in every individual.​Faith communities must break theological and cultural barriers to foster true inclusion.​Educational systems must shift from deficit-based to strengths-based support.Resources Shared by Guest Jeropha: ​Joni and Friends – A global Christian disability organization offering church training and family retreats​“Autism and Your Church” by Barbara Newman – A practical guide for faith-based inclusion​Special Needs Family Ministry Program – Dallas Baptist University​Every Child is Welcome by Katie Wetherbee & Jolene Philo​Leading a Special Needs Ministry by Amy Fenton LeeCall to Action: ​Re-examine how your school or faith community views disability​Learn from lived experience, not just theory​Embrace an inclusion that goes beyond rhetoric—grounded in empathy, access, and joy

    Inclusion Story 6: When Faith Meets Disability- A Mother's Perspective on Acceptance and Advocacy: Meet Jeropha Shekinah

  8. 05/05/2025

    Inclusion Story 5- A Mother’s Insights: Braden, Belonging, and International Inclusion Efforts

    In this heartfelt and eye-opening episode of Inclusive Occupations, host Savitha Sundar meets with Lori Boll, Executive Director of SENIA International, a passionate inclusion advocate and parent to a young adult with autism and intellectual disability. Lori’s journey is both deeply personal and professionally impactful, rooted in her experience raising her son Braden and shaped by her work across international school communities. Together, Savitha and Lori explore: ​The emotional journey of navigating a late autism diagnosis​Grief, resilience, and redefining success for families of children with high support needs​What belonging looks like for adults with disabilities today​How educators can build trust with families and foster inclusive team relationships​Practical takeaways for occupational therapists and special educators supporting students with complex needsThey also discuss Lori’s powerful book, Navigating Special Education Relationships, co-authored with Dr. Amanda Ly, which offers invaluable insights into building collaborative, trust-based partnerships in special education. Key quote from Lori: "Your story is what you have—it’s something to own." — Michelle Obama About the Guest: Lori Boll is the Executive Director of SENIA International, an organization dedicated to promoting inclusive practices in international schools worldwide. With over 25 years of teaching experience and a personal mission inspired by her son, Lori brings a powerful dual lens, as both educator and parent, to the global inclusion movement. Key Takeaways: ​Presume competence in students and the professionals who support them​Don’t apologize for your child’s neurodivergence—demand better from systems instead​Prioritize early access to communication and sensory regulation supports​Keep showing up, keep advocating, and don’t forget to laugh along the way Resources Mentioned: ◦📘 Navigating Special Education Relationships by Lori Boll & Dr. Amanda Ly- https://www.amazon.com/Navigating-Special-Education-Relationships-Amanda/dp/1032634286 ◦🌍⁠ SENIA International (https://www.seniainternational.org/)⁠ – Supporting inclusion across global school communities ◦Lori Boll's Podcast- The SENIA Happy Hour Podcast- https://www.seniainternational.org/podcast/

    Inclusion Story 5- A Mother’s Insights: Braden, Belonging, and International Inclusion Efforts
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This podcast is for school-based occupational therapists and other educators who are invested in creating a more inclusive world for their students.

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