Our Agile Tales

Mun-Wai Chung & JF Unson
  • 5.0 (2)
  • Management
  • Updated Semimonthly

Once upon a time, in an agile land, we navigate corporate levels and political waters to transform the business to be adaptable to this forever changing world. We are excited to share with you our agile journey. Enjoy our tales as we weave our stories together, sometimes with others, on our podcasts.

  1. 1d ago

    [Episode 5] Joy and HR - Lessons for Creating an Intentionally Joyful Culture

    Welcome to our Agile Tales as we continue our conversations with Rich Sheridan, founder, CEO, and chief storyteller at Menlo Innovations. Aside from founding and leading Menlo Innovations, Rich is also the author of the best-selling books Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer, which argue that joy is essential to productivity and profitability in the workplace. Rich recounts his journey from early programming success and a rapid rise to VP to feeling despondent amid chaotic, late, over-budget software delivery, which sparked a search for better ways to organize people.  In this episode, after a story of engineers hiding when a boss arrives late on a Friday, Rich explains how fear shuts down the brain functions needed for creativity, imagination, invention, and innovation, and suggests responding to “that won’t work here” with “why don’t we try it before we defeat it?” He shares how MassMutual used desk balloons to signal experiments, increasing energy and initiative, and contrasts fear-based accountability with “circular accountability,” including an Atlanta seminar where a VP recognized fear-driven management was harming results. Rich then describes Menlo’s intentional culture and hiring: valuing “good kindergarten skills,” using tours as recruitment, and conducting “extreme interviews” with paired candidates, paid real-work trials, and a focus on supporting others. 00:00 Welcome to Our Agile Tales01:38 A Friday Fear Story03:22 Fear Kills Innovation04:21 Try It Before Defeat06:04 MassMutual Balloon Experiments10:23 Why Fear Fails Leaders11:28 Circular Accountability Lesson16:27 Menlo Culture and Hiring16:55 Kindergarten Skills Hiring18:58 Tours and Culture Alignment23:22 Extreme Interview Process27:06 Paid Trials and Onboarding29:41 Closing and Next EpisodeAbout Rich Sheridan Rich Sheridan is the CEO and Chief Storyteller at Menlo Innovations and the best-selling author of Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer. He has spent years traveling across four continents and nearly 20 countries, helping organizations rethink not just how they work but also what it feels like to be part of them. His core message is simple: joy isn’t optional—it’s essential to productivity, profitability, and real team energy. Rich’s ideas have been featured in Forbes, Inc., NPR, and Harvard Business Review. What sets him apart is that he’s been living these principles for over 20 years at Menlo, the company he co-founded in Ann Arbor, Michigan—now known worldwide for its uniquely joyful culture. Follow Rich Sheridan at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menloprez You can check out Menlo Innovations' tours and workshops at: https://menloinnovations.com/tours-and-workshops Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    30 min

  2. Jun 16

    [Episode 4] Joy and HR - Lessons for Creating an Intentionally Joyful Culture

    Welcome to our Agile Tales as we continue our conversations with Rich Sheridan, founder, CEO, and chief storyteller at Menlo Innovations. Aside from founding and leading Menlo Innovations, Rich is also the author of the best-selling books Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer, which argue that joy is essential to productivity and profitability in the workplace. Rich recounts his journey from early programming success and a rapid rise to VP to feeling despondent amid chaotic, late, over-budget software delivery, which sparked a search for better ways to organize people.  In this episode, Rich explains Menlo’s “High Tech Anthropology,” a patented term for designers who study end users in their native environments to learn workflows and vocabulary, aiming to end “human suffering” caused by technology and create software that delights without manuals or training. He shares examples of widespread frustration with systems such as electronic medical records and ERP systems, then revisits the Langley vs. Wright brothers story to highlight purpose-driven discovery. He then presents an airplane model for organizations: lift of human energy over the weight of bureaucracy, and thrust of purpose over the drag of fear, emphasizing clarity, completing meaningful work, reducing meeting load, taking action through experiments, and eliminating fear-based management. 00:00 Welcome to Our Agile Tales01:46 High Tech Anthropology Explained04:30 Designing for Real Users06:59 Why Software Causes Suffering09:14 Wright Brothers Purpose Story14:23 Airplane Model for Organizations16:44 Lift Human Energy at Work19:09 Meetings and Bureaucracy Trap22:17 Drag of Fear Leadership24:39 Closing and Next EpisodeAbout Rich Sheridan Rich Sheridan is the CEO and Chief Storyteller at Menlo Innovations and the best-selling author of Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer. He has spent years traveling across four continents and nearly 20 countries, helping organizations rethink not just how they work but also what it feels like to be part of them. His core message is simple: joy isn’t optional—it’s essential to productivity, profitability, and real team energy. Rich’s ideas have been featured in Forbes, Inc., NPR, and Harvard Business Review. What sets him apart is that he’s been living these principles for over 20 years at Menlo, the company he co-founded in Ann Arbor, Michigan—now known worldwide for its uniquely joyful culture. Follow Rich Sheridan at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menloprez You can check out Menlo Innovations' tours and workshops at: https://menloinnovations.com/tours-and-workshops Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    25 min

  3. Jun 2

    [Episode 3] Joy and HR - Lessons for Creating an Intentionally Joyful Culture

    Welcome to our Agile Tales as we continue our conversations with Rich Sheridan, founder, CEO, and chief storyteller at Menlo Innovations. Aside from founding and leading Menlo Innovations, Rich is also the author of the best-selling books Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer, which argue that joy is essential to productivity and profitability in the workplace. Rich recounts his journey from early programming success and a rapid rise to VP to feeling despondent amid chaotic, late, over-budget software delivery, which sparked a search for better ways to organize people.  In this episode, we asked Rich whether removing meetings changes culture, and he avoids a blanket “no meetings” rule and instead distinguishes unproductive meetings from structured rituals (kickoffs, estimation, show-and-tell, planning games) with clear roles, artifacts, decision capture, and visible system effects, drawing on systems thinking from Peter Senge’s The Fifth Discipline. He argues disengagement reflects management’s failure to create conditions and an intentional culture (at Menlo, defined by “joy” and expected behaviors like pairing and sharing). He urges an external focus that extends even to employees’ families, citing Menlo’s practice of allowing newborns at work. To overcome “that won’t work here” drag from anyone, he advocates “Let’s try it before we defeat it—run the experiment,” emphasizing small, low-risk experiments, trust, and purpose as a simple, memorable guide through tough times and culture shifts like mergers, reinforced through daily practices and HR processes (noting Menlo has no HR department). Key topics and timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to Our Agile Tales01:37 Meetings vs Rituals03:58 Systems That Reduce Drag05:31 Intentional Culture Basics06:56 Beyond Customers Impact08:14 Babies at Work Story11:51 Try It Before Defeat15:39 Experiment Culture Spreads18:28 Measuring Experiments Trust19:56 Purpose That Endures Storms22:37 Transform Default Culture26:16 ClosingAbout Rich Sheridan Rich Sheridan is the CEO and Chief Storyteller at Menlo Innovations and the best-selling author of Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer. He has spent years traveling across four continents and nearly 20 countries, helping organizations rethink not just how they work but also what it feels like to be part of them. His core message is simple: joy isn’t optional—it’s essential to productivity, profitability, and real team energy. Rich’s ideas have been featured in Forbes, Inc., NPR, and Harvard Business Review. What sets him apart is that he’s been living these principles for over 20 years at Menlo, the company he co-founded in Ann Arbor, Michigan—now known worldwide for its uniquely joyful culture. Follow Rich Sheridan at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menloprez You can check out Menlo Innovations' tours and workshops at: https://menloinnovations.com/tours-and-workshops Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    27 min

  4. May 19

    [Episode 2] Joy and HR - Lessons for Creating an Intentionally Joyful Culture

    Welcome to Our Agile Tales as we continue our conversations with Rich Sheridan, founder, CEO and chief story teller at Menlo Innovations. Aside from founding and leading Menlo Innovations, Rich is also the author of the bests-selling books, Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer, whose message is that joy is essential to productivity and profitability in the workplace. Rich recounts his journey from early programming success and a rapid rise to VP to feeling despondent amid chaotic, late, over-budget software delivery, which sparked a search for better ways to organize people.  In this episode Rich argues that fear shuts down the brain functions organizations need—creativity, imagination, invention, and innovation—and describes common, often subtle, fear-inducing management behaviors like overload, ambiguity, and constant reprioritization. He shares a Menlo Innovation story where he inadvertently scolded an employee under a poster reading “It's okay to say I don’t know,” and how a long-tenured teammate compassionately held him accountable, leading to an apology and learning.  Using an airplane analogy, he maps organizational success to increasing human energy (lift) over bureaucracy (weight), strengthening purpose (thrust), and reducing fear (drag). He explains how Menlo pumps fear out through pair programming, frequent pairing rotation, an interview process emphasizing helping others succeed, leading without bosses, and replacing long status meetings with a short daily standup that exposes problems without solving them in-meeting. Key topics and timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to Our Agile Tales01:46 Fear Kills Innovation04:59 Everyday Fear Triggers08:04 Owning Your Mistakes12:19 Why Fear Lingers13:59 Airplane Forces Model19:05 Defining Human Energy21:22 Pumping Fear Out24:41 Leading Without Bosses27:17 Meetings That Drain Teams27:37 Daily Standup Fix29:54 Closing About Rich Sheridan Rich Sheridan is the CEO and Chief Storyteller at Menlo Innovations and the best-selling author of Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer. He has spent years traveling across four continents and nearly 20 countries, helping organizations rethink not just how they work, but how it feels to be part of them. His core message is simple: joy isn’t optional—it’s essential to productivity, profitability, and real team energy. Rich’s ideas have been featured in Forbes, Inc., NPR, and Harvard Business Review. What sets him apart is that he’s been living these principles for over 20 years at Menlo, the company he co-founded in Ann Arbor, Michigan—now known worldwide for its uniquely joyful culture. Follow Rich Sheridan at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menloprez You can check out Menlo Innovations tours and workshop at: https://menloinnovations.com/tours-and-workshops Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    30 min

  5. May 5

    [Episode 1] Joy and HR - Lessons for Creating an Intentionally Joyful Culture

    Welcome to Our Agile Tales as we start off this new season with Rich Sheridan, founder, CEO and chief story teller at Menlo Innovations. Aside from founding and leading Menlo Innovations, Rich is also the author of the bests-selling books, Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer, whose message is that joy is essential to productivity and profitability in the workplace. Rich recounts his journey from early programming success and a rapid rise to VP to feeling despondent amid chaotic, late, over-budget software delivery, which sparked a search for better ways to organize people.  He defines workplace joy as externally focused delight in serving end users, distinct from perks or simple happiness. He describes an “aha” moment when his eight-year-old daughter observed that no one could make decisions without him, revealing a hero-based organization, and a “click” moment in 1999 influenced by Kent Beck’s Extreme Programming Explained, IDEO’s Nightline segment, and meeting his co-founder, James Goebel. Rich details early resistance to pair programming, how experiments and a “Java factory” open-room approach shifted behavior, and how the internet bubble burst led him to found Menlo Innovations in 2001. He explains how IBM tours and a conference invitation launched his storytelling and how Edison’s Menlo lab inspired Menlo’s name, concluding that the risk of change was less than the risk of staying the same. Key topics and timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to Our Agile Tales00:22 Meet Rich Sheridan02:30 From Programmer to Burnout05:53 Defining Joy at Work08:21 Aha Moment Leadership Shift10:36 Click Moment XP and IDEO12:53 Pairing Experiment Begins15:54 Java Factory Culture Change19:19 Menlo Innovations Is Born20:59 Joyful Workdays No Overtime22:38 Tour Guide to Storyteller28:04 Risk of Change vs Staying30:05 ClosingAbout Rich Sheridan Rich Sheridan is the CEO and Chief Storyteller at Menlo Innovations and the best-selling author of Joy Inc. and Chief Joy Officer. He has spent years traveling across four continents and nearly 20 countries, helping organizations rethink not just how they work, but how it feels to be part of them. His core message is simple: joy isn’t optional—it’s essential to productivity, profitability, and real team energy. Rich’s ideas have been featured in Forbes, Inc., NPR, and Harvard Business Review. What sets him apart is that he’s been living these principles for over 20 years at Menlo, the company he co-founded in Ann Arbor, Michigan—now known worldwide for its uniquely joyful culture. Follow Rich Sheridan at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menloprez Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    30 min

  6. Apr 21

    [Episode 8] Beyond Budgeting: 25 Years of Management Innovation

    Welcome back to Our Agile Tales as we continue our conversation with Bjarte Bogsnes, exploring case studies from his latest book, This Is Beyond Budgeting. The book distills nearly three decades of experience challenging traditional budgeting, targets, and control-based management. In this final episode of the series, we discuss with Bjarte what distinguishes business models (external interaction) from management models (internal organization). He introduces the Viable Map, inspired by the Business Model Canvas, to help management teams assess their management model against the 12 Beyond Budgeting principles, considering business environment from SUSO (simple, understood, stable, orderly) to VUCA and employees on a Theory X–Y scale. He emphasizes the need for coherence between values/purpose-based leadership claims and often “fixed” budgeting processes, calling mismatches “poisonous gaps.” He argues listed companies can adopt beyond budgeting, as markets want sustainable performance, and recommends starting by separating budget purposes—targets, forecasts, and resource allocation—implemented in parallel. He contrasts beyond budgeting’s enterprise-wide focus with Agile’s origins in software, shares disappointing and rewarding client experiences, and points listeners to bbrt.org and key books. Key topics and timestamps 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro01:09 Business vs Management Models01:59 Viable Map Framework05:16 Assessing Coherence Gaps08:02 Empowerment Needs Process Change09:40 Markets Wall Street Myths12:08 Why Beyond Budgeting Sticks14:34 Where to Start Separating Budgets17:45 Pilots vs Big Bang19:12 Disappointing Transformation Story21:20 Most Rewarding Successes23:06 Learn More About Beyond Budgeting25:20 Wrap Up and Next SeriesAbout Bjarte Bogsnes Bjarte Bogsnes is Chairman of the Beyond Budgeting Round Table, a former global finance executive, and a leading thinker in management innovation. He is the author of Implementing Beyond Budgeting and This Is Beyond Budgeting, showing how organizations can replace rigid, calendar-driven systems with models built on trust, transparency, and adaptability — creating companies that are both more responsive and more human. Follow Bjarte at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/ Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    26 min

  7. Apr 7

    [Episode 7] Beyond Budgeting: 25 Years of Management Innovation

    Welcome back to Our Agile Tales as we continue our conversation with Bjarte Bogsnes, exploring case studies from his latest book, This Is Beyond Budgeting. The book distills nearly three decades of experience challenging traditional budgeting, targets, and control-based management. In this episode, we discuss with Bjarte  how target setting evolved at Equinor from 2005 onward through separating target setting, forecasting, and resource allocation, including allowing indicators without targets and emphasizing team-set, often more ambitious goals and relative “reality targets” versus peers. Bjarte says Beyond Budgeting adoption spans many industries, is stronger in Europe, and is equally relevant in the public sector, citing Norway’s NAV contact centers eliminating cost budgets and a 12,000-inhabitant municipality using self-managed teams, continuous decisions, and stakeholder alignment while still submitting an external “budget.” He argues budgets embed distrust and predictability assumptions, making true agility impossible without Beyond Budgeting, challenges absolute annual financial targets, and advocates relative targets, holistic evaluation, and common incentives. Finally, he describes surveys by Boston Consulting Group and Bain & Company linking Beyond Budgeting to benefits like higher sales and leading financial planning practices. Key topics and timestamps 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro01:06 Evolving Targets at Equinor03:39 Who Adopts Beyond Budgeting05:14 Public Sector Breakthroughs05:41 NAV Pilot No Cost Budgets07:10 Municipality Self Managed Teams10:00 Funding Constraints Not Earmarks14:24 Why Budgets Block Agility18:24 No Budget No Targets22:09 Forecasting and Ambition23:28 Consulting Surveys and Benefits27:16 Wrap Up and Next EpisodeAbout Bjarte Bogsnes Bjarte Bogsnes is Chairman of the Beyond Budgeting Round Table, a former global finance executive, and a leading thinker in management innovation. He is the author of Implementing Beyond Budgeting and This Is Beyond Budgeting, showing how organizations can replace rigid, calendar-driven systems with models built on trust, transparency, and adaptability — creating companies that are both more responsive and more human. Follow Bjarte at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/ Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    28 min

  8. Mar 24

    [Episode 6] Beyond Budgeting: 25 Years of Management Innovation

    Welcome back to Our Agile Tales as we continue our conversation with Bjarte Bogsnes, exploring case studies from his latest book, This Is Beyond Budgeting. The book distills nearly three decades of experience challenging traditional budgeting, targets, and control-based management. In this episode, we ask why Silicon Valley firms rarely appear in Beyond Budgeting case studies; Bjarte posits that these companies excel at technology innovation but fear management innovation, sometimes reinforced by IPO-focused CFOs, though being public is not a true barrier (Many Beyond Budgeting adopters are listed on Wall Street.)  He explains Beyond Budgeting can improve performance in both good and tough times and cites Handelsbanken’s long-term stability. The discussion covers Morningstar’s self-management and the need for enterprise-wide coherence, then Haier’s radical micro-enterprise model and rapid evolution. Finally, Bjarte details Equinor’s (formerly Statoil) beyond budgeting journey since 2005 via “Ambition to Action,” integrating strategy, risk, actions/forecasting, indicators, and HR with a 50/50 split between “what” and “how,” emphasizing transparency, event-driven cadence, decentralized ownership, and holistic performance evaluation. Key topics and timestamps 00:00 Welcome01:05 Why Silicon Valley Lags in Management Innovation04:11 Public Markets and Budgets04:53 Boom Bust and Stability06:40 Morningstar and Self Management08:48 Haier Radical Micro Enterprises13:00 Equinor Beyond Budgeting Origins16:32 Ambition to Action Framework20:11 Alignment Cadence and Transparency25:37 Holistic Performance Evaluation28:15 Wrap Up and ConclusionAbout Bjarte Bogsnes Bjarte Bogsnes is Chairman of the Beyond Budgeting Round Table, a former global finance executive, and a leading thinker in management innovation. He is the author of Implementing Beyond Budgeting and This Is Beyond Budgeting, showing how organizations can replace rigid, calendar-driven systems with models built on trust, transparency, and adaptability — creating companies that are both more responsive and more human. Follow Bjarte at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/ Music: https://www.purple-planet.com Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

    29 min
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
2 Ratings

About

Once upon a time, in an agile land, we navigate corporate levels and political waters to transform the business to be adaptable to this forever changing world. We are excited to share with you our agile journey. Enjoy our tales as we weave our stories together, sometimes with others, on our podcasts.

Information

  • Creator
    Mun-Wai Chung & JF Unson
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2026
  • Episodes
    111
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Our Agile Tales
  • Show Website
    Our Agile Tales