The Occupational Philosophers - A not-so-serious business podcast to spark Creativity, Imagination and Curiosity

The Occupational Philosophers
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Would you like to unlock the creative, imaginative and innovative potential in your team or organisation…BUT…don’t want to listen to another serious podcast which offers 7 steps, 5 habits, 3 mantras, and a hard sell in a pear tree? Then join ‘The Occupational Philosophers’, a ‘not-so-serious’ podcast with Simon Banks (middle-aged Australian surfer man, artist and published author) and John Rice (middle-aged British man with a love of curiosity and philosophy) as they chat with a ‘clowder’ (great word!) of curious cats from the fields of Comedy, Academia, Philosophy, Neuroscience, Psychology, Design, Marketing, and Business, to explore how you, your team, and your organisation, can develop your curiosity, spark your creativity, and free your imagination, so you can grow your business and your people….sounds great huh?! But don’t just take our word for it, read what our listeners think: “Worth a listen, one of them has a strange Australian accent” “They’re not philosophers, they’re idiots” “If you like business, philosophy, humour, creativity, and imagination, then have a listen - if not, then I would leave well alone” http://www.occupationalphilosophers.com

  1. 14h ago

    Ep 124: How creativity and imagination within our communities can change the world, with guest Jon Alexander, author of Citizens

    In this episode, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Jon Alexander, author, thinker and practitioner working to change one of the most powerful stories shaping modern society: the idea that our primary role is to be consumers. They explore a wide range of topics including: How we firstly need to honestly face the big challenges we are experiencing if we are to solve them Why we need to change our story from one that casts us as consumers to one where we see ourselves as citizens Examples of what a citizen story looks like from across the world Where do we start? Transforming institutions or transforming communities?  Using Purpose, Platform and Prototype as a more liberating approach to change What we can learn from the ancient wisdom of Lao Tzu Reframing our roles in ‘The Drama Triangle’ as a way forward How might organisations better engage their employees and unleash more of their creativity? Who are Alan and Ralph? And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s: The Ministry of Imagination About Jon Alexander Jon is an author, thinker and practitioner working to change one of the most powerful stories shaping modern society: the idea that our primary role is to be consumers. He began his career in advertising working with major brands at agencies including BBDO and Fallon. He was successful but increasingly found himself questioning the deeper consequences of an industry competing to influence people thousands of times every day. His question became less “How do we make better advertising?” and more “What happens to us when we are continually told that we are consumers?” That curiosity led him away from advertising and into academic study — including three master's degrees exploring consumerism and its alternatives — and ultimately to co-founding the New Citizen Project in 2014. Its central proposition is deceptively simple: what changes when organisations stop treating people primarily as consumers and instead invite them to participate as citizens?  He developed these ideas in his 2022 book Citizens: Why the Key to Fixing Everything Is All of Us, written with Ariane Conrad. Rather than simply arguing that people should behave differently, He is interested in the environments, institutions and narratives that allow people to exercise agency. His definition of citizenship explicitly includes imagination: the capacity to see how things could be, rather than merely accepting how they currently are - and his work therefore has a fascinating overlap with creativity.   He is also a Visiting Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation, and co-host of the How To Save Democracy podcast - an intensely interesting listen! Learn more about Jon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-alexander-11b66345/ https://jonalexander.net/ https://www.instagram.com/thecitizensguy/ https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/citizens-why-the-key-to-fixing-everything-is-all-of-us-jon-alexander/f1ebc4d821caf83b?ean=9781912454884   References https://ash.harvard.edu/resources/doce-beats-doge-the-case-for-meaningful-government-transformation-through-citizen-empowerment/   https://thecynefin.co/   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle   https://www.taoistic.com/taoteching-laotzu/taoteching-17.htm   https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/screw-this-lets-try-something-else/id1863391095   https://www.regen.melbourne/   https://www.nurturedevelopment.org/who-we-are/cormac-russell/   https://www.octaviabutler.com/theauthor   https://sarahwilson.com/   https://www.futurafoundation.org/time-machine-porto   https://events.humanitix.com/jon-alexander   https://www.actionism.space/citizen-friday/     John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse!  Say Hello to the OP  www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN www.bowlandconsulting.com SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au

  2. Sep 27

    Ep 123: If a Museum Curator explored your Organisational Culture, what would they display? With guest, Jenny Theolin

    If a Museum Curator explored your Organisational Culture, what would they display? The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 123 - Jenny Theolin Jenny Theolin is a Stockholm-based designer, facilitator, curator, photographer and author. She spent her twenties and early thirties running an independent creative practice in London before taking her studio back to Stockholm. Since 2009, she's run Studio Theolin, designing learning experiences, keynotes and culture programmes for organisations including Volvo Cars, the European Parliament and the London Stock Exchange. In 2023 she wrote, curated, designed and personally financed Dare to Facilitate: 320 pages, 120 dares and 39 contributors across nine countries. Along the way, she's built exhibitions out of ideas most people would dismiss, including a lolcat art show that raised over £4,000 for a dogs and cats home and a global campaign for Comic Sans's 20th birthday. If that's not enough, she's also the founder of the Museum of Organisational Culture. The conversation starts with how someone who does almost everything makes sense of it (her answer: making ideas happen, and getting shit done). From there it's the importance of aggressive curiosity and the Museum of Organisational Culture: a growing collection of donated objects that make an organisation's invisible culture visible, from a staff T-shirt to the office fruit bowl that vanished in the pandemic. Behind it sits Curatology, her method for reading organisational culture the way a curator reads a collection, in five steps: C.U.R.I.O. - Choose, Uncover, Reflect, Interpret & Offer. Then there's her marvellous book, Dare to Facilitate, her exhibitions and how she designs events from the invitation onwards.  John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse! Timestamps 00:00 – What's caught your curious eye: vertical drinking and the V&A East Storehouse 00:04 – Meet Jenny (and the intro that made Simon and John feel inadequate) 00:07 – Sweden's missing summer and being aggressively curious 00:12 – Dinner party questions: tufting, ceramics, photo lunches and building your own communities 00:22 – The Venn diagram: making ideas happen 00:27 – The Museum of Organisational Culture and curatology 00:37 – A protest T-shirt and the vanishing office fruit bowl 00:40 – Dare to Facilitate, and a game of "dare or dare" 00:47 – Designing learning from the first invite, and why little learning happens in the room 00:56 – Thought experiment: musée or not musée? 01:05 – The LOLcat exhibition 01:10 – Rapid fire, what's next, and where to find Jenny Pre-order Jenny's book!  The Museum You Carry (pre-order): https://www.museumoforganisationalculture.com/the-book  Live links  Jenny Theolin Studio Theolin: https://www.studiotheolin.com  The Museum of Organisational Culture: https://www.museumoforganisationalculture.com  Dare to Facilitate: https://www.studiotheolin.com/shop/p/dare-to-facilitate-buy  The Curatologist (Substack): https://thecuratologist.substack.com  Toolbox Toolbox: https://www.toolboxtoolbox.com  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennytheolin/  People & Work Mentioned V&A East Storehouse: https://www.vam.ac.uk/east/storehouse/visit  Abracademy: https://abracademy.com  Hyper Island: https://www.hyperisland.com  BBC on Jenny's LOLcat exhibition: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-21166326  Charlie Mackesy, The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/439667/the-boy-the-mole-the-fox-and-the-horse-by-charlie-mackesy/9781529105100  Museum of Broken Relationships: https://brokenships.com  Cup Noodles Museum Osaka Ikeda: https://www.cupnoodles-museum.jp/en/osaka_ikeda/  Crocodile Harry's Underground Nest & Dugout: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/crocodile-harry-s-underground-nest-dugout  The National Poo Museum: https://poomuseum.org  The Occupational Philosophers Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com  Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com  John — Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com  Simon — https://www.simonbanks.com.au Standout Line "There's a museum for absolutely everything apart from the place where we are most of our working lives."   As always: Stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life.

  3. Sep 16

    Ep. 122: What can change the world and make it better? Play, creativity, and self-belief with guest Ash Perrin (From the vault)

    How play, creativity and self-belief can change the world with Ash Perrin  In a reboot episode with one of their favourite guests (aren't they all favourites?), The Occupational Philosophers revisit their chat with global humanitarian, childhood conservationist, lifelong play enthusiast and founder of The Flying Seagull Project, Ash Perrin.  Since 2008, The Flying Seagull Charity Project has brought love, light and laughter to more than 200,000 children in 23 countries across four continents in challenging and desperate situations, including hospitals, orphanages and refugee camps. They use clowning, magic, games and arts workshops to replace fear and uncertainty with positive human connections based on respect, happiness and laughter. Ash is the author of ‘The Real Play Revolution’,  a TED Speaker and an all-around creative and joyous person.  In this episode, they explore:  How play is a universal feeling of liberation, creativity and expression and a safety net for learning  Why the world is just waiting for your amazing ideas  How to bring 'play' into the workplace that doesn't make you feel like an idiot  That the best ideas and the most stupid ideas come out of the same well  If you are below the age of 99, being asked to grow up is an act of violence They also dive into:  The emergence of the Monkey Christ  Why neckties should be banned unless fluorescent The board of brilliance and the bucket of goodbyes   As always, there are some great thought experiments such as:  If I were Prime Minister..... Is this a real job or not? (Surf barista anyone?)  Links The Flying Seagull Project https://www.theflyingseagullproject.com/ The Real Play Revolution (book) https://www.amazon.com/Real-Play-Revolution-Need-Silly/dp/1786782235  Ash Perrin Ted Talk https://www.ted.com/talks/ash_perrin_the_power_of_play?language=en  Check out the Bus https://www.facebook.com/flyingseagulls/posts/3741712149233070  The Occupational Philosophers Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com  Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com  John — Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com  Simon — simonbanks.com.au: https://www.simonbanks.com.au Simon Showreel:  Standout Line "It is not the fault of the artist, it is the fault of the person who commissioned the artist!"  As always:  Stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life as always, stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life.

  4. Sep 1

    Ep 121: How to be a better public speaker with guest, Dr Louise Mahler (From the vault)

    How to be a better Public Speaker with Dr Lousie Mahler.  (This is a reboot of episode 71, recorded a few years back - and one of our favourites) Dr Louise is the polymath's polymath and is recognised as a Top 30 Global Guru in both Body Language and Communication. She was an Opera singer for 10 years with the Vienna State Opera.  Louise’s qualifications include B.Econ; B. Mus; Post Grad Dip Music; L.Mus.A; Master of Applied Science in Organisational Change and a Master Practitioner in Neuro-Linguistic Programming.  She has completed an award-winning PhD around the unsung wisdom of the mind-body-voice connection she named Vocal Intelligence. She is a sought-after commentator discussing leadership, body language and effective presentation on television, radio and in the media. Her recent interviews with Channel 7 where she analyses the body language of Harry and Meghan Sussex have over 2 million views. Louise's clients include Fortune 500 clients around the globe.  Louise was voted Keynotes Speaker of the Year in 2021 by the Professional Speakers Association and is the author of "Resonate: for people who need to be heard"  She is the virtuoso of the voice, the high priestess of hot air and the femme fatale of unfailing attraction.  In this episode we explore:  The importance of breathing out (not just in)  Why we all need to channel ancient Rome and have way more Grrrrrrrravitas  Why communication should not just be a linear give and receive  Why we need to stop making excuses for communication (including being left-handed)  How we need to embrace Move, Move, Move  How wit and levity are wingmen for all types of communication  Why it's important to be an active listener, not just a passive listener The importance of saying ‘yes, please!’ more often More about Louise https://louisemahler.com.au/   Say Hello www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/ SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg   Take the Innovation Scorecard! https://empoweringinnovation.scoreapp.com/   Take creativity & innovation to the next level Answer 25 questions and we’ll send you a personalised report to benchmark the  level of creativity and innovation in your organisation It just takes a few minutes takes just a few minutes It’s completely free Receive customised results instantly

  5. Sep 1

    Ep 104 Inbetweener - Creative Insights you can plan your life around

    SHOW NOTES In this short, sharp Inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers continue to delve back into some highlights from the first 100 episodes and some sage advice from guests who have helped populate the ‘Maniguesto’ tree… Ian Gilbert…Do things no-one else does Mike Parsons …If you want to transform the world, start by transforming yourself Professor David Cropley….Creativity is like spinach! Tiffany Markman….In order to be creative, don’t be an insular arsehole …or asshole…. Dr Barbara Doran ….Draw, use your hands Tim Vaughan-Hughes….Fail again but fail better Jemma Enright….Stay curious They hope you enjoy the show.    FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a fruity burst of energy to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.   References: https://www.independentthinking.co.uk/speakers/ian-gilbert/ https://www.moonshots.io/ https://people.unisa.edu.au/David.Cropley https://tiffanymarkman.co.za/ https://www.barbaradoran.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-vaughan-hughes https://www.linkedin.com/in/jemmaenright   Say Hello www.occupationalphilosophers.com   Their day jobs:   JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/ SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

  6. Aug 26

    Ep.120: The fear of being judged Is Killing your Creativity | Nuggets With Dr Peter Lovatt

    Why Movement Changes How You Think | Nuggets With Peter Lovatt The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 120 Nuggets With Dr Peter Lovatt — Dance Psychologist and the show's very first-ever guest. John and Simon launch a new segment, likely the poorly named 'Nuggets', by digging back into the archive and pulling out the three ideas (nuggets) from Peter's original episode: what movement does to thinking, why dancing first beats thinking first, and why fear of judgement quietly kills creativity and curiosity. Timestamps 00:00 — Intro to the show and the new Nuggets segment 00:01 — Meet Dr Peter Lovatt, the show's first-ever guest 00:02 — Idea 1: Movement and thinking — structured movement for convergent problems, improvised movement for divergent ones 00:03 — Idea 2: "Dance first, think later" and how movement disrupts default thinking patterns 00:05 — Idea 3: The fear of being judged, and how it shuts down dance, creativity and curiosity alike 00:07 — Thought experiment: encouraging more movement inside your organisation 00:07 — Practical experiment: designing your day for multiple moments of movement 00:08 — Wrap-up with a Nietzsche quote on movement and ideas 00:09 — Subscribe and outro Find out more  Peter Lovatt https://peterlovatt.com https://academy.doctordance.com https://peterlovatt.com/the-dance-cure https://x.com/DrPeterLovatt   The Occupational Philosophers https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com https://www.bowlandconsulting.com https://www.simonbanks.com.au   Key Ideas Convergent Problems Get Structure, Divergent Problems Get Wiggle — Lovatt's advice for revision was to match the movement to the thinking task: structured movement like running sharpens convergent, single-answer problem solving, while loose, improvised movement (his "bit of a John Travolta") loosens up divergent thinking for open-ended, creative problems. Dance First, Think Later — Lovatt's central claim reverses the usual order of operations. Moving first, before you've worked out what to think, breaks your existing thought patterns and forces the brain into new territory rather than looping the same ideas. Movement Changes Your State Immediately — Beyond the cognitive shift, moving also changes how you feel in the moment, through the endorphins it releases. The state change is instant, whether or not the movement ever tips into actual dancing. The Fear of Being Judged Is the Real Blocker — Dance gets written off early as something only children do, or something you need to be brilliant at to attempt. That same fear of judgement, not a lack of ability, is what stops most adults from dancing, singing, or making anything at all. The Fear Shows Up in the Boardroom Too — The same self-consciousness that stops someone dancing in public is what stops them asking a question in a meeting. Teams that don't challenge assumptions or chase breakthrough moments are often just as afraid of looking silly as a nervous dancer is. Standout Line "Dance first, think later. It's the natural order."

  7. Aug 17

    Ep.119 - The Art of asking Great Questions (and how not to lose it) with guest Larry Robertson - Author, Entrepreneur and Scholar

    The Art of Asking Great Questions (and how not to lose it) The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 119 - Larry Robertson  Larry Robertson is an author, innovation advisor, and Inc. Magazine columnist and founder of Lighthouse Consulting, where he's spent three decades helping organisations successfully manage growth. He's a graduate of Stanford and Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management; he was named a US Fulbright Scholar in 2021, (a rare distinction for someone working outside academia). If that's not enough, he's also an Adjunct Professor!  In his work, he's watched the world drift away from real questions and toward statements dressed up as questions, which, unsurprisingly, is the subject of his fourth book, Great Question: The Art of the Ask. This episode dives into what that lack of curiosity can cost us. Importantly, the book explores what we get back when we relearn the practice of noticing, intellectual humility, and the "adjacent possible" as a way of seeing what's one step from where we already are. It also unearths the bigger question of what it means to be human.  Larry is possibly the world's nicest man, and Simon and John hope you enjoy listening to the show as much as they did recording it. There are so many gems here.  Timestamps 00:00 – What's caught your curious eye and Simon's favourite artwork story 00:08 – Larry's curious eye: yellow finches, and the joy of seeing 00:13 – Dinner party questions: The big question Larry keeps circling back to 00:20 – Larry's Venn diagram, and his to-ask list (with an assist from Mary Oliver) 00:25 – Where the new book started: the pattern across his first three books 00:29 – The 25-year observation: statements replacing real questions 00:32 – Four things a question is: an invitation, a frame, a behaviour, an identity 00:37 – Noticing versus the practiced noticer 00:40 – Stuart Kauffman and the adjacent possible 00:43 – Slow looking, the National Gallery, and Claire Bown's "The Art Engager" 00:47 – Training medical students by having them diagnose art 00:50 – Intellectual humility: the Hero's Journey, three levels, and the mantras for practicing it 00:58 – Warm data versus cold data, and reframing the data-centre problem 01:02 – Why the book matters: mattering, meaning, and being a questioning species 01:07 – Jeopardy! Possibly the world's best ever thought experiment 01:13 – Rapid fire: the manifesto addition, plus book and film recommendations 01:18 – What's next for Larry, and where to find him Live Links Larry Robertson Website: https://lrspeaks.com/ Great Question: The Art of the Ask (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/Great-Question-Getting-More-Really/dp/0983757461 Lighthouse Consulting: https://lighthouse-consulting.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larryrobertson3rd/ Column — Inc. Magazine: https://www.inc.com/author/larry-robertson People & Work Mentioned World Peace Game Foundation (Robin Klingler): https://worldpeacegame.org/ Stuart Kauffman, theoretical biologist and originator of "the adjacent possible": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Kauffman Claire Brown — The Art Engager / Thinking Museum: https://thinkingmuseum.com/ Project Zero, Harvard Graduate School of Education: https://pz.harvard.edu/ Centre for BrainHealth, UT Dallas (art-based medical student training): https://centerforbrainhealth.org/ Temple Grandin: An Open Door (documentary): https://www.templegrandindocumentary.com/ The Occupational Philosophers Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com John — Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com Simon — simonbanks.com.au: https://www.simonbanks.com.au Standout Line "What will you realise soon that you already know?" As always:  Stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life as always, stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life.

  8. Jul 1

    Ep. 118 - Casa de Cambio x Occupational Philosophers, with guest Natasha Redman

    In Episode 118,The Occupational Philosophers dive into a totally different format! Together with Natasha Redman, host of the very popular‘Casa De Cambio’ podcast, they have created their first ‘mash up’ podcast episode which invites them to be both guests and hosts to each other on one show! In this episode they explore a wide range of topics including: What’s the best Quentin Tarantino movie? What was the best career advice you’ve ever received? What have John and Simon learned about curiosity in over 100 episodes? Who are the 4 horsemen of Nirvana? Why saying ‘I don’t know’ is so powerful How to stay curious (even when under pressure) What questions should organisations be wrestling with today? How should any change initiative start? How can you implement changes when ‘all is in flux’? If you change all the planks of the ‘Ship of Theseus’, is it still the ‘Ship of Theseus’? Where do organisations struggle when it comes to change? The danger of ‘Toxic positivity’ and how to counter it Why ‘pet projects’ can derail change programmes What is the secret of the universe….sorry….scrub that, wrong podcast And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s: Who’s in the house? About Natasha Redman  Natasha Redman is an experienced change practitioner and project professional, with a proven track record in system implementations, organisational change initiatives and large-scale transformations. She has managed change initiatives at Australia’s biggest companies (including ANZ, Telstra, Australia Post, Accenture, NAB, Newcrest), holds multiple certifications and is well versed in both agile and waterfall delivery methods. Natasha’s passion for all things change led to her creating and hosting a successful podcast about change, technology, innovation and leadership.   Learn more about Natasha  https://www.linkedin.com/in/natasharedman/ https://www.casadecambio.com.au/   References https://www.thethe.com/ https://www.amazon.com/World-Needs-Your-Art-Creativity/dp/1683503732 https://conneradvisory.com/daryl-conner/ Bad Boy Bubby https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106341/   Casa De Cambio - Free webinar 9th July https://www.linkedin.com/posts/changify_agile-changemanagement-erptransformation-activity-7475121753778806785-K9ax?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAABIFFkBQKyN-YVNoL5dWZCukKlPAEKDwCI   John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse!  Say Hello to the OP  www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN www.bowlandconsulting.com SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au

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Would you like to unlock the creative, imaginative and innovative potential in your team or organisation…BUT…don’t want to listen to another serious podcast which offers 7 steps, 5 habits, 3 mantras, and a hard sell in a pear tree? Then join ‘The Occupational Philosophers’, a ‘not-so-serious’ podcast with Simon Banks (middle-aged Australian surfer man, artist and published author) and John Rice (middle-aged British man with a love of curiosity and philosophy) as they chat with a ‘clowder’ (great word!) of curious cats from the fields of Comedy, Academia, Philosophy, Neuroscience, Psychology, Design, Marketing, and Business, to explore how you, your team, and your organisation, can develop your curiosity, spark your creativity, and free your imagination, so you can grow your business and your people….sounds great huh?! But don’t just take our word for it, read what our listeners think: “Worth a listen, one of them has a strange Australian accent” “They’re not philosophers, they’re idiots” “If you like business, philosophy, humour, creativity, and imagination, then have a listen - if not, then I would leave well alone” http://www.occupationalphilosophers.com

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