The Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast

Anabaptist World and The Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition

In this podcast, an Indigenous woman and a white settler woman — both Anabaptists — uncover the deep structure of colonization that systematically deprives Indigenous Peoples of their human rights today. This deep structure — called the Doctrine of Discovery— is rooted in church doctrines that originated in the15th century and that still justify current laws and policies that justify the removal of land from Indigenous Peoples. Together, Sarah Augustine and Sheri Hostetler started a coalition of Anabaptist people of faith that seek to dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery. Sarah is an activist and scholar, the descendant of the Tewa People, and a displaced person. Sheri is a Mennonite pastor in San Francisco and an activist.

  1. Episode 43: Following the Spirit part 2 - Interview with Coalition Chaplain, Rev. Canon Deborah J. Royals

    10/03/2025

    Episode 43: Following the Spirit part 2 - Interview with Coalition Chaplain, Rev. Canon Deborah J. Royals

    In this second part of our interview with Coalition Chaplain Debbie Royals, we continue our discussion of colonized/colonizing worship and the need for spiritual care in our work. This is a work in progress, as we together seek to realign ourselves with the Creator and Creation through worship. Debbie is Pascua Yaqui from Tucson, AZ, a sister, mother to two wonderful young men and grandmother to four. She is an Episcopal priest, author, retreat leader and educator. Debbie earned a diploma in Nursing, a B.A. in Native American Spirituality and Theology from Prescott College, an M.Div. from the Church Divinity School of the Pacific and a M.A. in Religion and Society from the Graduate Theological Union. She serves as the Canon for Native American Ministry in the Diocese of Arizona and is developing a“new church community called Four Winds serving Indigenous people. Debbie led the Indigenous Theological Training Institute for 10 years and published several journals with Indigenous theologians. She has published in books on prayer and daily meditations. Debbie has navigated the divide by forming a bridge as a Native American spiritual leader and Episcopal priest. Her passion for restorative justice and binding community is evident in every aspect of her life. Watch video recordings of this and other episodes from Season 4 of the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast on our YouTube Channel. Show Notes: Decolonizing Worship happens the last Friday of every month at 1:00 p.m. PT / 4:00 p.m. ET. Register for the Zoom link Sarah and Sheri’s book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis Sarah and Sheri’s Substack: So That We and Our Children May Live You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery).

    37 min
  2. Episode 42: Episode 42: Sacred Imagination and Regenerating for Generations: Tela Troge’s Indigenous Speaker Interview

    09/17/2025

    Episode 42: Episode 42: Sacred Imagination and Regenerating for Generations: Tela Troge’s Indigenous Speaker Interview

    In the Indigenous Speaker Series being released on the Coalition website we asked Indigenous thought-leaders to reflect with us about what might comprise ecologically successful systems. Sarah and Sheri discuss some clips from Sarah’s interview with Tela Troge of the Shinnecock Nation. Tela Loretta Troge, Esq. is a member of the Shinnecock Indian Nation and a member of the Hassanamisco Nipmuc Tribe. Tela is the director of the Shinnecock Kelp Farmers and the Niamuck Land Trust. She recently organized the Warriors of the Sunrise Sovereignty Camp 2020 in an attempt to raise awareness about the plight of the Shinnecock people. Tela graduated from Michigan State University College of Law with a Juris Doctor and certification in Indigenous Law and Policy from the Indigenous Law Program. She has been fighting for tribal sovereignty for the past 11 years as the attorney with the Law Offices of Tela L. Troge, PLLC. Watch video recordings of this and other episodes from Season 4 of the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast on our YouTube Channel. Show notes: Access the Indigenous Speaker Series on the DDoD website Watch Tela’s Indigenous Speaker Series video/interview Sarah’s Substack article about the Shinnecock Nation: Support the Shinnecock Right to Self-Determination Sign up for a New Coalition Volunteer Orientation and/or a Coffee Hour Sign up to receive our Newsletter Prayers for Shinnecock and other Coalition campaigns Sarah and Sheri’s book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis Sarah and Sheri’s Substack: So That We and Our Children May Live You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

    36 min
  3. Episode 41:  Interview with Coalition Chaplain, Rev. Canon Deborah J. Royals: Following the Spirit part 1

    08/12/2025

    Episode 41: Interview with Coalition Chaplain, Rev. Canon Deborah J. Royals: Following the Spirit part 1

    The Coalition has hired a Chaplain! Debbie Royals is piloting this new position, to feel out the possibilities of providing decolonizing worship and spiritual care to our growing movement. In this episode, we talk about what colonized/colonizing worship is and, thus, what constitutes decolonized/decolonizing worship. This is a work in progress, as we together seek to realign ourselves with the Creator and Creation through worship. Debbie is Pascua Yaqui from Tucson, AZ, a sister, mother to two wonderful young men and grandmother to four. She is an Episcopal priest, author, retreat leader and educator. Debbie earned a diploma in Nursing, a B.A. in Native American Spirituality and Theology from Prescott College, an M.Div. from the Church Divinity School of the Pacific and a M.A. in Religion and Society from the Graduate Theological Union. She serves as the Canon for Native American Ministry in the Diocese of Arizona and is developing a“new church community called Four Winds serving Indigenous people. Debbie led the Indigenous Theological Training Institute for 10 years and published several journals with Indigenous theologians. She has published in books on prayer and daily meditations. Debbie has navigated the divide by forming a bridge as a Native American spiritual leader and Episcopal priest. Her passion for restorative justice and binding community is evident in every aspect of her life. Watch video recordings of this and other episodes from Season 4 of the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast on our YouTube Channel. Show Notes: Decolonizing Worship happens the last Friday of every month at 1:00 p.m. PT / 4:00 p.m. ET. You can sign up through this calendar link by clicking on the event. Sarah and Sheri’s book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis Sarah and Sheri’s Substack: So That We and Our Children May Live You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery).

    30 min
  4. Episode 40: Interview with Jonathan Smucker and Tim Nafziger: Catalyzing the Mennonite Story

    06/12/2025

    Episode 40: Interview with Jonathan Smucker and Tim Nafziger: Catalyzing the Mennonite Story

    As groups that came out of Mennonite organizing, Mennonite Action and the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery share similar values. Like our shared commitment towards decolonization. Learn about the origins of Mennonite Action and how the story of Anabaptism has inspired, and sometimes hindered, public organizing in this interview with Jonathan Smucker and Tim Nafziger. Jonathan Smucker has worked for over twenty-five years as a political organizer, campaigner, and strategist. He is the co-founder of Popular Comms Institute, PA Stands Up, Lancaster Stands Up, Common Defense, Beyond the Choir, and Mennonite Action. He is a PhD candidate in sociology at University of California, Berkeley and author of Hegemony How-To: A Roadmap for Radicals. Tim Nafziger lives in the Ventura River watershed on the traditional lands of the Chumash people in southern California. He has been organizing for peace and justice in Mennonite communities for 27 years, including with the Coalition and Mennonite Action. He enjoys writing, board games and photography and works professionally as a digital marketing consultant. Watch video recordings of this and other episodes from Season 4 of the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast on our YouTube Channel Show Notes: “The Courage to Enter the Song,” written by Sarah Augustine, Tim Nafziger and Jonathan Smucker. “Beyond Blaurock: The Other Origin Story of Anabaptism,” by Tim Nafziger. A good article on Mennonite Action and its founding: “I Was Arrested While Singing Hymns for Ceasefire in Gaze.” “The Movement Makes Us Human, An Interview with Dr. Vincent Harding on Mennonites, Vietnam, and MLK,” by Joanna Shenk. Mennonite Action’s website “Front Light” - A Mennonite Action Podcast Sarah’s and my book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis Sarah’s and my Substack: So That We and Our Children May Live You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

    45 min
  5. Episode 38: Interview with Allen Buck: Not Giving Up on One Another

    05/02/2025

    Episode 38: Interview with Allen Buck: Not Giving Up on One Another

    In this episode, Sarah and Sheri interview Allen Buck about his work within the United Methodist Church. Allen discusses the necessity of truth telling in building trust and relationships, and its importance in Repair work within the Church. Dr. William Allen Buck is a Cherokee (CNO) Native American Ordained Elder, currently serving at Great Spirit, the only United Methodist Native American Church in the Oregon Idaho Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. He is also the Director of the Circle of Indigenous Ministries for the United Methodist Church. Social justice, especially advocating for the rights and protection of Indigenous peoples’ spaces, traditions, cultures, and wisdom, is at the heart of his work. He is also passionate about addressing issues surrounding the environment, civil rights, education, intergenerational trauma, and poverty. His vision is to help create a beloved community where all people are embraced and uplifted. Show notes: Circle of Indigenous Ministries for the United Methodist Church: https://greaternw.org/circle/ About Father Wilbur (this is the colonized version of the story) https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/wilbur_james_h_1811_1887_/ Sarah’s and my book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis Sarah’s and my Substack: So That We and Our Children May Live You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

    43 min
  6. Episode 37:  Interview with Frances Loberg and Tracy Howe: Prayer as Presence

    04/17/2025

    Episode 37: Interview with Frances Loberg and Tracy Howe: Prayer as Presence

    Learn about the Chí’chil Biłdagoteel Oak Flat Accompaniment (COFA) team from two current volunteers, Fran Loberg and Tracy Howe. Learn about COFA’s role at Oak Flat, a sacred site that is under threat from a copper mining company, and what led Fran and Tracy to join in the work of protecting sacred land. Frances Loberg lives in the ancestral land of the Kalapuya Indians, now known as Salem, OR. She has three grown children, is a semi-retired lactation nurse, and has been involved in various movements for peace and justice since her early 20’s. In July of 2024 she attended a training to be a member of the COFA team and then accompanied the Apache Stronghold on their six-week prayer journey across the country, visiting other tribes and churches to pray and build unity as they took their case to the Supreme Court on Sept. 11, 2024. Rev. Tracy Howe (she/they/womxn) is a songwriter, author, theologian, and activist and uses their creative expression in cultural organizing toward a world of beauty, care and belonging.They are mixed Pinay (Filipino) and European settler living on Tohono O’odham and Pascua Yaqui land in what is now called Tucson, AZ. She is the founder of Restoration Village Arts, a 501c3, and pursuing a Ph.D. in Applied Intercultural Arts Research at the University of Arizona where she is a practice-led scholar exploring spirituality in 21st century US-based social movements and the relationship between US settler colonialism and present-day fascism. Resources: Apache Stronghold website: apache-stronghold.com/ Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery Study Guide and Bible Reflection Guide Learn more about Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice Check out our Coalition Calendar to register for an upcoming orientation Listen to this previous podcast interview with Dwight Metzger about Oak Flat and Mt. Graham (sacred sister site) If you’re interested in COFA (Chí’chil Biłdagoteel Oak Flat Accompaniment) or getting involved in Mt. Graham you can email our Oak Flat organizer molly block (molly@dismantlediscovery.org) Sarah’s and my book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis Sarah’s and my Substack: So That We and Our Children May Live You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

    32 min
5
out of 5
24 Ratings

About

In this podcast, an Indigenous woman and a white settler woman — both Anabaptists — uncover the deep structure of colonization that systematically deprives Indigenous Peoples of their human rights today. This deep structure — called the Doctrine of Discovery— is rooted in church doctrines that originated in the15th century and that still justify current laws and policies that justify the removal of land from Indigenous Peoples. Together, Sarah Augustine and Sheri Hostetler started a coalition of Anabaptist people of faith that seek to dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery. Sarah is an activist and scholar, the descendant of the Tewa People, and a displaced person. Sheri is a Mennonite pastor in San Francisco and an activist.