90 Miles from Needles: the Desert Protection Podcast

Chris Clarke
  • 4.9 (53)
  • Nature
  • Updated Biweekly

Join Chris Clarke and a variety of guests as they explore the challenges and opportunities of the American Southwest's fragile ecosystems. Engaging interviews with experts, activists, and advocates on conservation, land management, and environmental justice. Science and sentiment, politics and philosophy, hiking and history, culture and creativity all go into defending the desert. Be forewarned: We are out to recruit you to the cause.

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  1. 4d ago

    S5E29: Why Was the North Kaibab Trail Still Open?

    Journalist Joe Dana of 12 News in Phoenix joins Chris Clarke to discuss questions raised by the August 29 flash flood in Grand Canyon National Park—and what happened inside the National Park Service before the disaster. After the 2025 Dragon Bravo Fire, Grand Canyon Trails Supervisor Adam Gibson warned publicly that the upper North Kaibab Trail had become a substantially more hazardous environment. In a March appearance on The Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show, Gibson described debris flows, hydrophobic soils and risks likely to persist for years. Dana's reporting goes further. Sources told him that Gibson had recommended keeping the North Kaibab Trail closed for the 2026 season, and that park leadership initially appeared receptive to that recommendation before the entire trail reopened May 15. NPS had previously described its reopening strategy as adaptive, promising to “open what we can, where we can, when we can,” while balancing visitor safety, resource protection and operational readiness. Chris and Joe talk about the pressures on park managers to restore public access, the risks faced by trail crews and visitors in a recently burned landscape, and the larger question built into National Park Service management: how do you provide public enjoyment of extraordinary places while ensuring that those places remain unimpaired for future generations? NPS policy says conservation ultimately takes precedence when those purposes genuinely conflict. The August 29 flood killed two hikers, left a third missing, prompted roughly 80 rescues, and devastated infrastructure along Bright Angel Creek. As of September 8, the North Kaibab Trail, Phantom Ranch, Bright Angel Campground and several other inner-canyon areas remain closed, with no estimated reopening date. Links and background Joe Dana and 12 News Grand Canyon Hiker Dude: Adam Gibson's March 4 interview NPS: North Rim reopening announcement, March 25 NPS: Current North Rim and North Kaibab Trail status National Park Service Management Policies: conservation and public enjoyment Chris will also be taking 90 Miles from Needles to El Paso for the Fourth Chihuahuan Desert Conference, November 4–6, 2026, at the El Paso Zoo and Botanical Gardens. Chihuahuan Desert Conference information Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E29: Why Was the North Kaibab Trail Still Open?

  2. Sep 4

    S5E28: 4 Things You Need to Know about Desert Flooding

    Episode thumbnail photo by Bo Insogna. The deadly August 29 flood in Grand Canyon National Park received national attention, but it was not an isolated event. Flooding struck communities, parks and backcountry destinations across Utah, Arizona and New Mexico throughout the summer. Chris Clarke presents four things we should understand about desert flash floods: they are regional rather than isolated disasters; they are fundamental forces that build desert landscapes; blaming victims can undermine safety; and better preparation, warnings, closures and land-use decisions can reduce the danger. The episode also explains why violent monsoon floods do little to relieve the Colorado River drought. Key takeaways The Grand Canyon flood was part of a much wider period of destructive Southwest monsoon flooding. Flash floods are not aberrations in deserts. They carve canyons, move boulders, reroute washes and build alluvial fans. Experience and preparation reduce risk, but they cannot eliminate it. Blaming victims encourages people to treat safety warnings as advice intended for someone less competent. Closures, permits, upstream monitoring, better flood maps and responsible land-use decisions can save lives. Intense local flooding does not necessarily produce enough water to replenish major reservoirs or end a regional drought. Notable quote“The sustained river incision and the geological uplift are the canvas. The flash floods are the brushstrokes.” Griffiths, Peter G., Robert H. Webb, and Theodore S. Melis. 2004. “Frequency and Initiation of Debris Flows in Grand Canyon, Arizona.” Journal of Geophysical Research: Earth Surface 109(F4).DOI: 10.1029/2003JF000077 Melis, Theodore S., Robert H. Webb, Peter G. Griffiths, and T.J. Wise. 1994. Magnitude and Frequency Data for Historic Debris Flows in Grand Canyon National Park and Vicinity, Arizona. USGS Water-Resources Investigations Report 94-4214.DOI: 10.3133/wri944214 Cannon, Susan H., et al. 2008. “Storm Rainfall Conditions for Floods and Debris Flows from Recently Burned Areas in Southwestern Colorado and Southern California.” Geomorphology 96(3–4): 250–269.DOI: 10.1016/j.geomorph.2007.03.019 Goodrich, David C., et al. 2018. “Southwestern Intermittent and Ephemeral Stream Connectivity.” Journal of the American Water Resources Association 54(2): 400–422.DOI: 10.1111/1752-1688.12636 Swain, Daniel L., et al. 2020. “Increased Flood Exposure Due to Climate Change and Population Growth in the United States.” Earth’s Future 8.DOI: 10.1029/2020EF001778   Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E28: 4 Things You Need to Know about Desert Flooding

  3. Aug 28

    S5E27: Sonoran Toads and the Dirty Business of Ego Death

    Journalist Kimon de Greef joins Chris Clarke to discuss his new book, The Ego Trip: Psychedelic Toads, a Trail of Deaths, and the Guru Who Peddled Transcendence. The Sonoran Desert toad (Incilius alvarius) spends most of the year underground, emerging to breed during summer rainstorms. It is also the only animal known to produce 5-MeO-DMT, an extraordinarily powerful psychedelic compound, in its defensive secretions. That biological curiosity has made the toad the center of a global psychedelic industry.  Chris and Kimon discuss how Sonoran toad secretions changed from a little-known psychedelic tool into an international spiritual commodity; how outsiders profit from romanticized ideas about Indigenous tradition; and what the resulting trade means for the toads, the people hired to collect them, and communities living amid poverty and cartel violence. They also examine parallels with the commercial appropriation and poaching of white sage, and consider an uncomfortable contradiction: people seeking healing, transcendence and communion with nature may be supporting a supply chain built on wildlife exploitation, misinformation and harm. Content Note This episode contains discussion of drug use, addiction, death, animal mistreatment and abusive psychedelic practices. It is not intended as medical advice or encouragement to use 5-MeO-DMT or any other controlled substance. About Kimon de Greef Kimon de Greef is a South African journalist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Guardian, National Geographic, Guernica and other publications. He has a master’s degree in conservation biology from the University of Cape Town and a master’s degree in journalism from New York University. Much of his reporting concerns wildlife trafficking, illicit economies and the complicated relationships between human desire and the natural world. Kimon de Greef’s website Kimon on Instagram Buy The Ego Trip through Bookshop.org Publisher’s page for The Ego Trip In this episode The remarkable monsoon-dependent life of the Sonoran Desert toad What 5-MeO-DMT is, and why “toad licking” is both inaccurate and dangerous How Octavio Rettig helped popularize toad-derived 5-MeO-DMT Claims that toad smoking is an ancient Comcáac/Seri tradition Psychedelic tourism, cultural appropriation and spiritual marketing The economic realities behind supposedly “responsibly sourced” toad secretions Toad collection, repeated “milking,” displacement and disease transmission Why synthetic 5-MeO-DMT removes the need to exploit wild toads Parallels between the toad trade and the international market for poached white sage What scientists know and don't know about the toad’s population status The difficulty of conducting conservation research in cartel-controlled areas Why a potentially profound experience can still leave a trail of real-world harm Selected timestamps 00:02:07 — How Kimon found the story 00:03:52 — Sonoran Desert toad natural history 00:06:20 — 5-MeO-DMT and the toad’s defensive secretions 00:08:47 — Octavio Rettig and the rise of “toad medicine” 00:11:34 — The Comcáac community and claims of recovered tradition 00:14:50 — Is there evidence of ancestral toad use? 00:20:15 — Psychedelic tourism and its consequences 00:22:30 — Seri ironwood carving and the creation of “tradition” 00:30:10 — The parallel with white sage 00:34:59 — Toad-derived versus synthetic 5-MeO-DMT 00:38:44 — Inside the toad-secretion supply chain 00:44:35 — What is happening to wild toad populations? 00:50:27 — Psychedelic experience, reporting and ethical distance Further reading and resources Kimon de Greef’s original New Yorker investigation, “The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads” De Greef on the collection trade, “The Psychedelic Toad Milkers” High Country News, “A Hallucinogenic Toad in Peril” Sonoran Desert Toad Fund, supporting research and conservation throughout the species’ range Tucson Herpetological Society, whose president Robert Villa has worked extensively on the toad’s conservation Sonoran Desert toad species account from AmphibiaWeb U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Sonoran Desert toad species profile PLOS One, “Diet and Chemical Defenses of the Sonoran Desert Toad” California Native Plant Society, White Sage Protection Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E27: Sonoran Toads and the Dirty Business of Ego Death

  4. Aug 14

    S5E26: Maps, Vanished Lakes, and Two Desert Squirrels

    We think of range maps as static representations of where plants and animals belong. It doesn't often occur to us that maps are just snapshots of a constantly changing world. In the Mojave Desert, two sister species of desert ground squirrel coexist nearly side by side. A field guide's range maps will tell you where those species live right now. But those maps also convey hints out of Deep Time, and those hints can explain not only why the squirrels live where they do, but also how the two species evolved in their own directions. Host Chris Clarke shares the story of those sister species: the Mohave and Round-tailed ground squirrels. One is doing well and is abundant. The other has been designated as a threatened species. Each of them is a library of history... if we know how to read them. Chris also announces the launch of our Fellowship for Desert Reporting: prospective Fellows can start by filling out the application form at https://thedamn.org/fellowship-application. Resources  Mohave ground squirrels California Department of Fish and Wildlife: Mohave Ground Squirrel Species overview, conservation status, recordings and access to the state conservation strategy. CDFW Mohave Ground Squirrel Philip Leitner, “Current Status of the Mohave Ground Squirrel: An Update Covering the Period 2013–2020” Reviews the animal’s current distribution, apparent losses from portions of its historical range and continuing conservation concerns. Status update PDF Mohave Ground Squirrel Technical Advisory Group CDFW’s archive of technical documents and meeting materials from researchers, agencies and other specialists. Technical Advisory Group Mohave Ground Squirrel Conservation Council: Publications A bibliography covering the species’ taxonomy, ecology, genetics, distribution and conservation. Publications list Separation, contact and hybridization Kayce C. Bell and Marjorie D. Matocq, “Regional Genetic Subdivision in the Mohave Ground Squirrel: Evidence of Historic Isolation and Ongoing Connectivity in a Mojave Desert Endemic” Animal Conservation 14 (2011): 371–381. Examines genetic structure and historical isolation within Mohave ground squirrel populations. Article and abstract Philip Leitner, Jennifer S. Rippert and Marjorie D. Matocq, “Genetic Structure Across a Contact Zone Between Xerospermophilus Ground Squirrels in Southern California” Western North American Naturalist 77 (2017): 152–161. Documents both species and genetically admixed animals near Hinkley. It also reports expansion across the former barrier of no more than approximately 30 kilometers—an average of no more than five meters per year. Full article “Distribution and Genetic Status of Xerospermophilus Ground Squirrels in the Barstow Region” Includes useful maps of trapping records and genetically identified Mohave, round-tailed and hybrid or backcrossed animals around Barstow and Hinkley. CDFW-hosted report Mojave River and vanished lakes Marith C. Reheis et al., “Geomorphic History of Lake Manix, Mojave Desert, California: Evolution of a Complex Terminal Lake Basin” Geomorphology 392 (2021). A detailed modern synthesis of the lake basin’s development, changing river routes, tectonics and climate history. USGS publication page USGS: Surficial Geology and Stratigraphy of Pleistocene Lake Manix Detailed geologic mapping of Lake Manix, its component basins and the deposits exposed by the Mojave River and Afton Canyon. USGS Lake Manix map and report Marith Reheis and Joanna Redwine, “Lake Manix Shorelines and Afton Canyon Terraces: Implications for Incision of Afton Canyon” Discusses the overflow of Lake Manix and relatively rapid initial incision of Afton Canyon at approximately 25,000 calibrated years ago. USGS publication record USGS: Mojave River and Associated Lakes An accessible introduction to the Mojave River, Lake Manix, Lake Mojave and the modern Soda and Silver Lake playas. Mojave River and Associated Lakes Range maps and Joshua trees USGS: High-resolution distribution maps for western and eastern Joshua trees Describes empirical and modeled range maps for Yucca brevifolia and Yucca jaegeriana across four states. USGS Joshua tree distribution study Smith et al., “Genome-Scale Data Resolves the Timing of Divergence in Joshua Trees” American Journal of Botany 108 (2021). Estimates that the two Joshua tree species diverged approximately 100,000–200,000 years ago. Journal article Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E26: Maps, Vanished Lakes, and Two Desert Squirrels

  5. Aug 7

    S5E25: The Vaquita Can Still Recover

    The vaquita is the world’s smallest and most endangered cetacean, but the handful still living in Mexico’s Upper Gulf of California may be more resilient than recent headlines suggest. In 2025, researchers concluded that there was a 67 percent probability that seven to ten distinct vaquitas had been observed in the study area. That was a count of animals seen, not an estimate of the species’ total remaining population. Researchers also found evidence that vaquitas are continuing to reproduce. Dr. Lorenzo Rojas-Bracho, one of the world’s leading vaquita experts and chair of the International Committee for the Recovery of the Vaquita, joins Chris Clarke to explain why the species is not necessarily doomed by its small population. Surviving vaquitas appear healthy, continue to produce calves, and retain the genetic capacity to recover—if people stop killing them in gillnets. The vaquita is also a desert porpoise. Its only habitat lies in a marine ecosystem made exceptionally productive by its desert setting. Evaporation, concentrated saltwater, tides, wind, and upwelling continually move nutrients through the Upper Gulf. Although the loss of Colorado River flow has profoundly changed the delta and harmed some species, Rojas-Bracho says there is no evidence that food scarcity or habitat degradation is driving the vaquita’s decline. The principal threat is bycatch in gillnets used for shrimp, fish, sharks, and especially totoaba. Totoaba swim bladders command extraordinary prices in an illegal international market, bringing organized crime into a conservation problem already complicated by government resistance and the legitimate needs of fishing communities. Saving the vaquita requires eliminating gillnet deaths while developing fishing gear and markets that allow Upper Gulf communities to make a living without driving another species to extinction. About the Guest Dr. Lorenzo Rojas-Bracho has studied the vaquita for decades and helped establish the International Committee for the Recovery of the Vaquita, known as CIRVA, which he has chaired since its creation. His research has addressed vaquita abundance, bycatch, genetics, habitat, fisheries policy, and the species’ prospects for recovery. He is affiliated with the National Marine Mammal Foundation and has worked extensively with Mexican and international scientists, conservation organizations, fishing communities, and government agencies. Quotable Moments “Vaquitas are strong animals. If you stop killing them, they will recover. It’s amazing how resilient they are.” “I would be satisfied if I see the population trend being positive, or at least not declining. I can die peacefully if I see that.” “We cannot be stupidly optimistic, but we are optimistic because the data shows that we can be optimistic.” “I don’t want Mexico to be the country that loses the vaquita.” “Don’t give up. That’s the worst thing.” In This Episode Why seven to ten vaquitas observed does not mean only seven to ten exist How the vaquita became adapted to natural rarity Why genetic evidence shows that inbreeding does not necessarily doom the species How a desert evaporation basin creates an exceptionally productive marine ecosystem What ending Colorado River flow has—and has not—done to vaquita habitat How fisheries authorities used habitat degradation to deflect attention from bycatch Why totoaba gillnets are particularly deadly How the illegal swim-bladder trade brought organized crime into the Upper Gulf Why protecting vaquitas cannot mean abandoning fishing communities The need for effective vaquita-safe fishing gear and better markets for safely caught seafood What listeners can do to help Resources Viva Vaquita — Background on the species, its habitat, the totoaba trade, conservation work, and current developments. Act Now for the Vaquita — Suggested actions include writing Mexican officials, supporting conservation work, making sustainable seafood choices, and avoiding shrimp and fish caught with gillnets. 2025 Vaquita Research Campaign report — The complete acoustic and visual survey report, including the seven-to-ten observation range, its statistical limitations, and evidence of continued reproduction. IUCN Cetacean Specialist Group: Vaquita — Scientific background, distribution, conservation status, and updates from cetacean specialists. CIRVA reports and archive — Reports from the International Committee for the Recovery of the Vaquita, including recommendations on eliminating gillnet mortality and developing viable fishing alternatives. The critically endangered vaquita is not doomed to extinction by inbreeding depression — The 2022 genomic study discussed in the episode. Researchers concluded that the vaquita’s longstanding natural rarity has reduced its burden of damaging genetic variation and that recovery remains possible if bycatch stops. Mexico must save the vaquita from gill nets — A 2024 Science commentary coauthored by Rojas-Bracho and other vaquita researchers. Bycatch in gillnet fisheries threatens Critically Endangered small cetaceans and other aquatic megafauna — A study coauthored by Rojas-Bracho placing the vaquita crisis within the worldwide threat that gillnets pose to small cetaceans and other marine animals. Take Action Visit Viva Vaquita’s action page for sample letters to Mexican officials and other ways to help. Seafood buyers can also ask where shrimp and fish were caught and whether gillnets were used. Public attention matters: it gives officials who want to protect the vaquita political support to act and makes continued inaction harder to ignore. The vaquita’s situation is desperate, but extinction is not yet inevitable. The animals are still feeding, reproducing, and surviving. The remaining question is whether people will give them the opportunity to recover. Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E25: The Vaquita Can Still Recover

  6. Aug 1

    S5E24: Tree Sit at the Border

    Border-wall contractors have destroyed three ancient Fremont cottonwoods in Lochiel, Arizona. Estimated to have been 200 to 250 years old, the trees stood in the path of two proposed 30-foot walls through the San Rafael Valley. One landmark cottonwood remains. Activists have occupied it in what may be the first tree sit organized against border-wall construction. Kate Scott joins Chris Clarke from the Casita de la Esperanza, the activists’ base at the former Lochiel port of entry. She describes the loss of the cottonwoods, the wildlife that depended upon them, and the apparent absence of meaningful environmental monitoring as the trees came down. She also explains why organizers are demanding protection for the surviving tree and an end to plans for a secondary wall through the community. The fight is about more than one cottonwood. The tree represents the ecological richness, cultural history and cross-border relationships threatened by wall construction throughout the Arizona–Sonora borderlands. Key Takeaways Contractors destroyed three of Lochiel’s four landmark cottonwoods to make way for border-wall construction. Activists are maintaining a tree sit in the remaining cottonwood and demanding that it be spared. Organizers also want the proposed secondary wall through Lochiel abandoned. The cottonwoods provided habitat for barn owls, flickers, kingbirds, insects and other wildlife. Scott also reports hearing a threatened yellow-billed cuckoo. Scott says Customs and Border Protection had promised protections for active bird nests, but activists saw no meaningful environmental monitoring during the tree removal. Organizers are combining direct action with art, music, ceremony and public gatherings. Wall construction threatens wildlife movement, a historic border community, neighboring ranchland in Sonora and potentially significant archaeological resources. Notable Quotes “We do not want a double wall through this historic community.” “Each one is unique—a universe in and of itself.” “This is not a crossing point. This is a wildlife migratory corridor.” “We’re not taking this anymore. We’re making our stand here.” “Don’t obey in advance.” About Kate Scott Kate Scott is a southern Arizona organizer and a co-founder of the Madrean Archipelago Wildlife Center. Her work includes community organizing and direct action to protect the San Rafael Valley and the wildlife, cultural resources and cross-border relationships threatened by border-wall construction. Resources Rally for the Valley on Instagram Support the Lochiel tree sit and campaign The Guardian: Protesters occupy a 200-year-old border cottonwood Episode image modified from a photograph by the Center for Biological Diversity. Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E24: Tree Sit at the Border

  7. Jul 24

    S5E23: Beyond Laws: Building a Movement to Save Our Deserts

    Federal environmental laws matter. They have prevented destructive projects, protected wildlife and cultural sites, and given communities a way to challenge powerful interests. But laws are only as durable as the political support behind them. As the Trump administration weakens environmental and cultural protections, Chris Clarke asks what happens when desert advocates rely too heavily on Washington. If federal law is the only defense a landscape has, one election or court decision can leave that landscape exposed. The alternative is not abandoning federal protection. It is building additional layers beneath it: local ordinances, community relationships, persuasive stories, political constituencies and a shared understanding of what people stand to lose. Protecting the desert requires more than winning a legal argument. It requires enough organized public support to make destruction politically difficult. Key Takeaways Federal environmental laws remain essential, but laws alone cannot provide permanent protection. Political administrations can weaken regulations, reduce enforcement and reinterpret longstanding statutes. Environmental harm commonly produces concentrated private profits while distributing costs across the public. Local ordinances and policies can add protection when federal safeguards fail. Desert advocates need durable relationships with residents, workers, businesses, Tribal communities and local institutions. Successful movements give people reasons to defend a place before a destructive proposal appears. Building political power requires narratives rooted in community needs as well as ecological facts. Notable Quotes “The public loses more than money. We lose wildlife habitat, we lose groundwater, we lose archaeological and cultural sites, we lose wilderness.” “Profits become concentrated by one party, and the costs are borne by the public.” “Those of us who love a place shouldn’t just rely on Washington to defend it.” “A president can weaken federal laws. And if federal laws are the only layer of protection that we have for places that we love, then we find ourselves in the position that we’re in right now.” Join the Conversation What has helped people protect a place in your community? Which local campaigns have built lasting support across political or cultural lines? Chris would especially like to hear about community and independent radio programs covering desert issues. Email: chris@90milesfromneedles.com 90 Miles from Needles Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E23: Beyond Laws: Building a Movement to Save Our Deserts

  8. Jul 17

    S5E22: Morgan Sjogren on the War on Utah's National Monuments

    On July 13, 2026, President Trump announced new reductions of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monuments, removing protections from nearly three million acres. The action again places Tribal cultural landscapes, wildlife habitat, watersheds and public lands at risk from mining, drilling and other development. Writer Morgan Sjogren joins Chris Clarke from southern Utah. Sjogren has traveled these landscapes extensively and written about Glen Canyon, uranium mining and the conflicting legacies carried by public lands. She describes the disorienting contrast between an enormous political assault and the apparent quiet of the country itself. The conversation also considers what landscape-scale knowledge provides: an understanding that rivers, mesas, wildlife, plant communities, rural towns and Indigenous homelands cannot be separated by conveniently redrawn lines on a government map. Key Takeaways The July 2026 actions removed national-monument protections from most of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante. Bears Ears is an Indigenous cultural landscape whose protection was developed through years of Tribal leadership and advocacy. Reduced protections could expose lands to uranium and coal mining, drilling and other extractive uses. National-monument protection also safeguards rivers, watersheds, wildlife habitat, archaeological sites and public access. Sjogren argues that traveling through these places at landscape scale reveals connections that political boundaries conceal. Supporting organizations based in and near the monuments remains an important way to respond. Notable Quotes “The air is filled with tension, and the noise is mostly online, but outside it’s eerily quiet.” “Monuments are one of the most robust protections we have for rivers in this country.” “I’ve been getting to know my riverside neighbors: both the human and more-than-human, plant communities, wildlife, Tribes, rural Americans, urbanites, farmers.” “Vote like this landscape and our lives depend upon it.” About Morgan Sjogren Morgan Sjogren is a writer, adventurer and longtime traveler through the landscapes of the Colorado Plateau. Her books include Path of Light: A Walk Through Colliding Legacies of Glen Canyon, Outlandish: Fuel Your Epic, and The Best Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument Hikes. Resources Morgan Sjogren’s Glen Canyon Backcountry Club Grand Staircase Escalante Partners Bears Ears Partnership Conservation Lands Foundation: Defend Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante Become a desert defender!: https://90milesfromneedles.com/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    S5E22: Morgan Sjogren on the War on Utah's National Monuments
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Join Chris Clarke and a variety of guests as they explore the challenges and opportunities of the American Southwest's fragile ecosystems. Engaging interviews with experts, activists, and advocates on conservation, land management, and environmental justice. Science and sentiment, politics and philosophy, hiking and history, culture and creativity all go into defending the desert. Be forewarned: We are out to recruit you to the cause.

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