In this episode of Walk the Line Podcast, Ives Wittman talks about how he helps people, develop deep connections with themselves, with others, or with a higher power. Episode Transcript So I've could you tell me a little bit more about that? The identity issue that would be thinking about recently. What's your take on it? So in my experience working as a counselor, especially and, you know, even in other areas of my life, I've worked with a lot of individuals from a lot of different backgrounds. So I've worked with individuals from very different places, Africa, Eastern Europe, India Pakistan, Central America, even in Far, East Asia, Vietnam. Cambodia, and some of the things that I'm realizing is in the culture today. It's really important to be aware and acknowledge someone's cultural background and to try to understand where they're coming from their culture and this is a part of their identity. And what I've come to learn, is those pieces of their identity, those pieces of their life, how they've kind of frame themselves and to find themselves, Are in and of themselves, sort of part of it, and part of their veneer. And some of that goes, very deep Beyond being a veneer. And what I like to see and what I've noticed over time is there is an element of a universal Humanity that start to show up with people. This means that we all sort of end up at the same place in some ways at the core and root of what we are looking at. My work is about helping people, develop deep connection with themselves with others, may be a higher power. And also a depth of being so that they fully can Plumb the depths of their core of who they are. So the universal Humanity, ideas it at the core there. I believe that in many ways were contending with similar issues of which culture and gender and race and Ethnicity religion. All these things play a role that shape and conform it along with our biology. So what I was discussing recently was, I've had this happen a couple times and it has happened recently with a couple of African-American clients where they are sharing a story about their life. May be from Africa, they may be from the inner city of New York yet. What starts to happen is in this case, both of these men were sharing about there. Relationships with their fathers. And the idea here in my work is one of the ways we come at this as we all sort of pick up a script about how we're supposed to live our life and something that I ran into a phrase or an idea. Randall couple years ago at one of my counselors offices. Was when you're writing the story of your life make sure you're the one holding the pen. Now, that's difficult because, you know, as we're growing up, you know, we are influenced by pretty powerful people. So nonetheless, this situation showed up with these men's fathers and one in particular was attempting to live out a particular way of life in his profession, how we saw himself through what his father wanted for him now. Present seems pretty simplistic. You know, pretty easy to pick up, make sense, yet it becomes a very deep operative inside of us. That's beyond. Just we get it in our head. It becomes part of our instinctual being or emotional being if it can even tap into our heart. So these things are very wetted us and we have a particular type of loyalty to these scripts and to the people who have sort of expose dust to their way of being and then Their definition of us. So this man's story became my story to in this way, because I also had a relationship with my father. And he was extremely demanding in a particular way. He wanted me to show up for myself and how I wanted to be make my way into the world for me for him, that I became a doctor. And that exerted, all kinds of other pressures school. And that was a big one. Getting certain types of crates. So this impacted a lot of part of my story and Part of trauma, emotional, trauma is being pushed into being something. You aren't. And most people, I would say doing this work of me have had to fit themselves into a square box and there may be around bag and over time, this can wear someone down and there's a lot of shame that can start showing up because of the fact that they aren't abiding by the family script, or the cultural script. One thing that seems to me to be and I would love to know from your perspective. This is just an impression or not, but it seems to me that this, this sort of issue that you described especially what in real in relation to Identity. It's very, it's a very recent issue or at least the The abundance of cases seem to be very recent, is that true? Well, they awareness of it is, definitely now. Surely become a deluge and it's important. And I don't intend to disparage, it trust me because I don't think the emphasis was placed on this for many years in this way, for sure. And I think what's been good about this is we are now becoming more open to each other's identities and understanding those identities. The challenge becomes Holy seeing that as Who We Are. We are more than an American. Who's a white male? We have a lot happening or an African American who came from Nigeria and is now here. So, it is definitely on everyone's radar now, and when that happens, sometimes all of our attention Narrows to that one place, Is it, is it the case that some identities are being pushed to be set being celebrated more than others? And that could be, could that be a problem as well, when when, you know, some people may be seen their own identity being repressed or being previous for being distracted. That's a, that's a can of worms, I can only again speak from my own experience. I would say that yes there are certain you know there are certain ethnicities certain religions certain races that say all these things colors you know by POC would be one transgender be another that are at the Forefront in many ways of a lot of social media, political discussion educated mean all kinds of things. so, This happens, you know, it can also happen with the elevation of the needs for women. And as a white male, we have sort of, in some regards, have this Limelight, the center of light in this culture. So to make room for others. It's definitely a challenge and the that's a fine line you have to be nimble about How we go about celebrating other cultures at inadvertently, the expense of others. Again it's sort of a dynamic that I've observed rightly or wrongly where we sort of take one part of of the discussion and make it the hole. And we cast one particular group as one way with particular merits and another group with not any not much Merit, and it's an unbalanced picture. Do you think there is there is room or the other? Is there room for a reset in terms of the identity conflict is there room for some sort of a maybe not in the macro, State of things. But you know, at least in the family State, you know, the families are in the small groups. So give me an example of what you're thinking about here. Well, let's say, let's say, well you mentioned you mentioned a few identity groups and and let's say one of those groups has a strong claim that it's being oppressed or attacked by the other group, right? How to how to reach. A state where everyone can start from zero and is there is that even desirable like this moment where people can just say, hey, you know what, we all made mistakes, some of us made more mistakes than others. But how about we have a like a future where we try not to make any more mistakes? Instead of a of this, which seems to be the case, so many, so many times. Now of constant and Conflict between identities. well, I would the way I look at it is I don't think we ever started zero because we're already bringing our history. That's an impossibility. The question is, how do we Re-examine that history and take what worked and didn't work. Understand the hurt that has occurred an integrated into a new meaning and a new way of seeing particular Cultures races, genders and so forth. It's a requiring of its can be a bit of a, it's not an easy task. Because really the goal in the end is is we all would like in some ways I believe is deep connection and that also means that we have to maintain our own separate identity along the number of lines cultural personal race religion. And we also have to coexist exist as different people. So again, how do we Create Harmony amongst the groups. I think it's naive to believe that we can get everything on an equal playing field. And everything will eventually mirror, some sameness an equality, everything has its own level of equality, and inequality, and some sameness. So, again, it's the personal work, possibly the group work of learning how to accept and welcome your own situation. And where you come from understanding, what has happened to you, as a result of that, part of who you are. They identity part. and then finding ways to heal and integrate the healing into a new meaning of what who you are as a particular identity, whether your Christian Muslim Jewish, you know, a particular race. So that you have some modicum of degree of comfort because there's always going to be a tension between groups. And how do we continue to navigate those groups when it spills over? Now you did make a comment that it is equal. It is difficult for four people have been oppressed to if they're not we're not careful my own. Religious upbringing has had a history of going through very difficult tragic, generational, traumatic things and to be able to work through that enough. So that we don't find ourselves dwelling in a victim place which can happen in the culture. And there are many people that have moved beyond that and their many people have not and sometimes I wander in and maybe one of them exposed to that on. A whole we're struggling with this issue right now. And the idea of coming back to zero again seems very naive. What to do then? When one identity part of that identity is the exclusion or the The or, you know, pr
