It's a Numbers Game

Daniel Welling
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The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.

  1. EP132 – Rehearse the Chaos — Why every MSP should be running tabletop exercises with their clients — with Adam Pilton, Heimdal Security

    3D AGO

    EP132 – Rehearse the Chaos — Why every MSP should be running tabletop exercises with their clients — with Adam Pilton, Heimdal Security

    Daniel Welling welcomes back cybersecurity advisor Adam Pilton (Heimdal Security) for a masterclass on cyber tabletop exercises. Adam defines a tabletop as a staged rehearsal where senior leaders and key responders use the organisation's incident response procedure while a facilitator introduces evolving information, aiming to build confidence, stress-test decision-making, and improve communication. They discuss common failures like missing or outdated incident response plans, the facilitator's role in preparing and tailoring scenarios, and differences between SMEs (often using pre-made exercises) and enterprises (more tailored). MSPs should participate, with the on-the-day MSP representative not knowing what comes next, and facilitation can be segmented to reduce bias. Success means surfacing lessons learned, and Adam recommends at least annual exercises, ideally quarterly, including smaller segments within QBRs. He outlines six pillars of effective incident response and highlights the MGM incident as a communication case study.   00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 01:20 Tabletop Exercises Defined 03:13 Game vs Serious Stress 04:20 Incident Plan Pitfalls 06:29 Facilitator Prep and Tailoring 10:51 SME vs Enterprise Approach 12:26 MSP Role and Independence 15:10 What Success Looks Like 17:01 Where and How Often 19:40 Packaging as Recurring Service 22:21 Six Pillars Framework 24:48 Communication Case Study MGM 28:27 Selling Security Upgrades 30:32 Wrap Up and Contact   Connect with Adam Pilton on LinkedIn by clicking here –https://www.linkedin.com/in/adampilton Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    32 min

  2. MAY 4

    EP131 – The Devil's in the Detail – Why your billing team, your margins and your processes need to be ready before you scale – with David Middleton, Flotek

    Dave discusses how Flotek scaled its finance and billing operations from a simple setup (a bookkeeper and a director overseeing finances) to a more structured team while growing rapidly through acquisitions. He explains their philosophy that client-facing billing is part of service delivery, with SLAs and a "wow" mindset to protect relationships and reduce friction from invoice errors. The conversation covers challenges of cost-of-sale reconciliation amid inconsistent vendor billing, the need to accept imperfect acquisition data, and using standard cost models and monthly margin monitoring (with more precision where margins are tighter, like Microsoft). They emphasise simplifying vendors/products, building processes and controls across sales, projects, and finance, capturing historical billing data, and balancing automation with necessary manual review. Dave notes they reached £18M revenue in 3.5 years and wishes he had hired earlier, stressing upfront investment in scalable systems, culture, and pricing for long-term growth.   00:00 MSP Finance at Scale 00:50 Early Acquisition Setup 01:47 Billing as Customer Service 05:24 Wow Factor and Trust 08:17 Cost Reconciliation Reality 10:14 Standard Costs and Margins 14:45 Automation and AI Tools 17:39 Limiting Complexity 19:53 Team Size and Reporting Depth 23:24 Sales Ops to Finance Handoff 27:46 Lessons from Rapid Growth 29:32 Closing and Contact Connect with Dave Middleton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-j-middleton/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    33 min
  3. EP130 – 14 MSP Acquisitions in 4 Years – What Buyers Really Look For with Dave Middleton

    APR 5

    EP130 – 14 MSP Acquisitions in 4 Years – What Buyers Really Look For with Dave Middleton

    Dave joins the podcast to discuss Flotek's M&A journey, having completed 14 acquisitions in three and a half years, and argues the MSP market is diverse, fragmented, and active, with frequent inbound opportunities. He explains deal sourcing through SEO, brokers, network reputation, and supplier referrals, and stresses sellers should do due diligence on buyers. Flotek prioritises cultural and values alignment before numbers, then evaluates stability, cash flow, customer loyalty, customer satisfaction, geography, organic growth, and vendor/tech-stack fit, with a relentless focus on thorough integration. Post-sale, they reassure staff through one-to-ones, emphasise career growth in a larger business, and use phased service integration (often months 6–12) plus strong account management to reduce churn, while acknowledging some customers prefer small-MSP intimacy. On valuation, Dave says it depends on timing and competition, advises not fixating on price versus deal structure and certainty, and notes recurring revenue and longer contracts generally improve value. 00:00 Welcome and Goals 00:51 Biggest M&A Takeaways 01:57 Deal Flow and Market Supply 03:29 Sourcing Acquisition Leads 05:35 Buyer Due Diligence 06:48 Culture Fit First 07:53 What Buyers Look For 09:46 Integration and Tech Stack 13:51 Pipeline Timing and Dating 16:32 Post Sale Integration Playbook 20:16 Customer Retention and Churn 24:41 Valuation Versus Deal Structure 28:00 Wrap Up and Contact   Connect with Dave Middleton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-j-middleton/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    32 min
  4. EP129 – Why Most MSPs get PR wrong with Rahme Mehmet

    MAR 28

    EP129 – Why Most MSPs get PR wrong with Rahme Mehmet

    In this episode, the hosts Adam and Daniel are joined by PR consultant Rahme to discuss an upcoming 2026 collaboration and unpack what PR means for MSPs and vendors: public relations as audience-focused communication that builds reputation, brand awareness, and relationships with influencers such as reporters, editors, analysts, and advisors. They contrast PR with marketing, using a white paper as an example of content that marketing deploys for lead generation while PR uses it to pitch thought leadership and earn coverage, and they explore how PR success is measured through exposure, publication quality, message pull-through, and effects like SEO rather than direct sales attribution. They stress getting fundamentals right (clear positioning, aligned website and social messaging), planning quarterly communications tied to business goals, developing media relationships, and preparing for crisis communications. They also address AI as both an accelerator and a reputational risk in content creation. 00:00 Welcome and Partnership 00:52 What PR Really Means 04:32 PR vs Marketing Lines 08:03 Measuring PR Impact 13:41 Who Should Use PR 17:43 Earned vs Paid Coverage 21:04 Getting Started with PR 24:31 Relationships and Crisis Prep 26:49 AI in the PR World 32:08 Contact and Wrap Up   Connect with Rahme Mehmet on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahmemehmet/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    35 min
  5. EP128 – Using the Working Genius Model to Build Better MSP Teams – with Chris Cooke

    MAR 22

    EP128 – Using the Working Genius Model to Build Better MSP Teams – with Chris Cooke

    Chris joins Daniel and Adam to discuss Patrick Lencioni's Working Genius assessment, a 40-question framework about where people get energy and joy at work, contrasting it with tools like Myers-Briggs and DISC (communication preference). He explains the WIDGET model: Wonder (identify gaps), Invention (generate ideas), Discernment (judge ideas), Galvanizing (rally action), Enablement (help others move work forward), and Tenacity (drive to completion), plus how each person has two geniuses, two competencies, and two frustrations. They cover applying the model in MSPs to improve role fit, career progression (e.g., L1 vs escalations, sales vs sales management), meeting focus (strategy vs tactics), recruitment language, and reducing burnout through intentional time spent in frustration areas. 00:00 Introductions and Banter 00:23 Why Working Genius 02:08 WIDGET Overview 02:32 Wonder and Invention 03:18 Discernment and Galvanizing 04:13 Enablement and Tenacity 05:45 Genius Competency Frustration 07:50 Applying it to Meetings 09:17 Business Gaps and Stages 10:25 Every Job Uses All Six 12:04 Role Fit Sales Example 14:37 Technicians Need Clarity 15:07 Clarity Versus Escalations 15:50 Valuing Level One Talent 17:06 Career Paths and Intentionality 18:17 Time Blocking for Strengths 19:46 Hiring Amid Talent Shortage 22:00 Do Your Results Change 25:21 Engineering into Sales 28:40 Right Seats and QBRs 30:23 DISC Versus Working Genius 32:27 Wrap Up and Contact Connect with Chris Cook on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cookechris Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    36 min
  6. EP127 – Loneliness is the tax you pay for autonomy

    MAR 12

    EP127 – Loneliness is the tax you pay for autonomy

    Loneliness Is the Tax You Pay for Autonomy: The Hidden Cost of Business Ownership Adam and Daniel depart from the usual guest format to discuss the often-ignored loneliness of business ownership, especially in MSPs. They frame autonomy as rewarding but inherently tied to responsibility, asymmetrical relationships, and an unshared cognitive load that leaders can't fully offload to employees or spouses. Adam reads an essay, "Loneliness is the Tax You Pay for Autonomy," arguing loneliness is a byproduct of authority and care, not weakness, and can be offset through structures like EOS, shared vision, peer groups, mentors, therapists, and healthier communication rhythms. They reflect on regrets about not understanding these dynamics earlier, the mixed value and potential competitiveness of peer groups, and the nuanced pros and cons of having a business partner. They close by emphasising authenticity, balancing the "tax" with rewards, and appreciating the journey. 00:00 Why This Episode 00:40 Loneliness at the Top 02:41 Autonomy Loneliness Essay 07:14 Regrets and Recognition 09:23 Naming the Hidden Cost 10:35 EOS and Shared Vision 12:43 Peer Groups and Pitfalls 14:59 Business Partners Debate 19:02 Mentors and Support Systems 23:29 Vulnerability and Balance 25:29 Enjoy the Journey 27:24 Closing and Connect Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/   MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    28 min
  7. EP126 – Becoming the Chief AI Officer for Your Clients with Nils Howland

    MAR 7

    EP126 – Becoming the Chief AI Officer for Your Clients with Nils Howland

    In this episode, we welcome Nils, co-founder of Ironbridge, to discuss the transformative potential of AI for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Nils shares his extensive background and experience in scaling businesses and investing in tech startups. He elaborates on how MSPs can leverage AI to revolutionise their operating models, scale efficiently, and deliver new, high-value services. The conversation covers the transition from traditional IT infrastructure to AI-driven solutions, the importance of strategic partnerships with clients, and actionable steps MSPs can take to stay ahead. Nils also highlights the unique role MSPs will play in the AI era, becoming indispensable partners for SMBs and SMEs by integrating AI into their operations and offering consultative, outcome-based solutions. 00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:58 Nils' Background and Experience 02:37 The Role of AI in MSP Development 03:59 Changing the Commercial Model for MSPs 06:07 The Unique Opportunity for MSPs with AI 08:30 Implementing AI in MSP Operations 12:42 Challenges and Strategies for MSPs Adopting AI 14:13 The Future of MSPs in the AI Era 16:33 Practical Examples and ROI of AI Implementation 29:35 Final Thoughts and Contact Information   Connect with Nils Howland on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/nilshowland/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/   Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/     MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team   We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    33 min
  8. EP125 – The Apple MSP Conference You've Never Heard Of with Justin Esgar

    MAR 1

    EP125 – The Apple MSP Conference You've Never Heard Of with Justin Esgar

    Join us as we chat with Justin Esgar about the ACEs Conference, an event designed to help MSPs (Managed Service Providers) grow their businesses with a focus beyond just technological skills. Justin shares his journey in founding the conference, designed originally for Apple consultants but open to all. He talks about the unique business-oriented aspects of the conference, the importance of non-technical skills, and the vibrant community it nurtures. Additionally, he discusses the scholarship in honour of his late father and hints at future plans for geographical expansion. The conversation also touches on some lighter notes, such as Justin's potential guest-hosting role and his enthusiasm for British television. 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Justin 00:19 Practicing the Podcast Introduction 01:20 Discussing the ACEs Conference 04:13 The Unique Focus of ACEs Conference 04:59 History and Evolution of ACEs Conference 06:25 Business Growth and Success Stories 11:06 Employee Development and Training 16:59 Challenges and Differences in Conference Attendance 23:02 Honouring a Legacy: The Edward Esgar Scholarship 24:37 Final Thoughts and Farewell   Connect with Justin Esgar on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinesgar/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/   Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/     MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team   We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

    30 min
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About

The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.

Information

  • Creator
    Daniel Welling
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    132
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2022
  • Show Website
    It's a Numbers Game

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