Valley of Depth

Payload | Ignition | Tectonic
  • 4.7 (59)
  • Investing
  • Updated Weekly

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

  1. 18h ago

    A Firefly Future, with Jason Kim (CEO of Firefly Aerospace)

    On this week's episode of Valley of Depth, our first recorded in person, we sit down with Jason Kim, CEO of Firefly Aerospace, in the company's historic Blue Ghost mission control room in Cedar Park, Texas — the same room where 60 engineers watched their lander touch down at one meter per second last year.    From there, the conversation opens into how Jason actually thinks: about the Moon, about scale, and about being a "mission CEO" rather than a hardware or software one. Firefly went public in 2025, acquired defense software company SciTec within months, and now sits inside Golden Dome. Jason argues the market still prices the company as a pure launch player while he's building an end-to-end stack he puts in the same conversation as Anduril and Palantir. We cover: The last 30 seconds of the Blue Ghost Mission 1 landing, from inside the room where it happened Why Blue Ghost Mission 2 is harder: a three-spacecraft stack and the first US far-side landing Whether small launch makes money, and why Alpha is both a profit center and a strategic asset The Eclipse medium-lift bet, the Northrop partnership, and why Starship doesn't make everyone else obsolete Why the Moon matters, and how big the commercial lunar economy actually gets Why a hardware CEO bought a software company The valuation gap with Rocket Lab and what he believes the market hasn't priced in His honest read on SpaceX, China, the new-launch shakeout, and the path to a $100 billion company   • Chapters • 00:00 - Trailer 00:53 – Blue Ghost Mission 1 04:41 – The bar for success for Blue Ghost Mission 1 07:16 – What is the new objective in Blue Ghost Mission 2? 11:49 – Jason coming into Firefly leadership 16:35 – Day 1 as Firefly CEO 18:53 – AE Industrial and how private equity informs Jason's mindset 21:02 – Product stack 22:34 – Demand signal from responsive launch 24:21 – Alpha and small launch economics 26:20 – Firefly's Eclipse 28:09 – How Starship will impact the launch market 29:41 – Viability of commercial launches 32:15 – Blue Ghost x Eclipse? 33:51 – Why does the Moon matter? 36:02 – Jason's commercial lunar economy predictions 38:02 – The future of Blue Ghost's missions 39:52 – Why Jason acquired Sitec 44:30 – Sitec in the Space Force's Golden Dome contracts 47:16 – Why shift Firefly to being a public company? 49:04 – How does Jason address stock price fluctuation internally? 50:49 – Do the public markets understand the space economy? 52:57 – Is Firefly just a launch company? 55:25 – What part of Firefly has the market not priced in yet? 56:50 – Firefly's strategy in a world where lift becomes effectively free 58:49 – Which launch companies will survive? 59:56 – The China question 1:00:33 – Is there a company out there that doesn't get enough attention? 1:01:53 – How Firefly is thinking about M&As 1:04:25 – The path to Firefly hitting a $100B valuation 1:05:25 – Jason Kim, the person 1:07:07 – Who does Jason call for advice? 1:07:57 – What Jason would tell 25-year-old Jason 1:11:58 – What Jason does for fun when not working on space   • Show notes • Firefly’s’ website — https://fireflyspace.com/ Jason’s’ socials — https://x.com/Jason_Lil_Kim/ Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://x.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://x.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://x.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/   • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), Decoding Bio (biotech) and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

    1h 14m

  2. 1d ago

    Space & Defense Market Update - May 2026 (LIVE from NYSE)

    This month, Mo and Jack host a live show on the future of Commercial LEO Destinations, featuring leaders building the next generation of space stations: Marshall Smith (Voyager Technologies / Starlab) Jonathan Cirtain (Axiom Space)   We discuss station development progress, business models, NASA's role, private astronaut missions, station economics, the transition from the ISS, and what it will take to build a sustainable commercial presence in LEO.   • About us • Arkaea Media is building the definitive media, events, and intelligence platform for the future of the defense industrial base. We deliver high-quality journalism and actionable insights that shape the business, policy, and investment decisions underpinning technically complex and highly regulated industries that influence global security. Our portfolio of publications (so far) includes Payload (space) and Tectonic (defense tech).   Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

    1h 20m

  3. 5d ago

    The Speed Advantage, with Zach Shore (CEO of Hermeus)

    The United States hasn't flown a Mach 3-plus reusable aircraft since the SR-71 was retired in 1990. Hermeus wants to change that and they want to do it faster, cheaper, and with a fraction of the capital. This week we sit down with Zach Shore, newly appointed CEO, at the moment the company's bet is starting to pay off. Zach walks us through his evolution from VP of Growth to CEO, the company's record-breaking $219 million DIU contract, and a $350 million raise that has Hermeus entering its most consequential chapter yet. But the real conversation is about the machine behind the machine …how a SpaceX-trained engineering team is iterating on aircraft the way rockets were once iterated on, and why Mach 3 might be the unlock that makes Mach 5 a foregone conclusion. We cover: Why Zach took the CEO role and what AJ's executive chairman mandate actually looks like The turbine-based combined cycle engine architecture and why Mach 3 is the hardest problem between here and Mach 5 The autonomy stack philosophy: why Hermeus builds trucks, not brains The China threat, the allied opportunity, and why Australia is the most important international partner The commercial Mach 5 passenger vision and why defense has to come first …and much more. • Chapters • 00:00 - Trailer 00:56 – From President to CEO 04:03 – The largest DIU contract ever awarded ($219M) 07:46 – Building the fastest aircraft in the world 11:13 – The operational gap a Mach 5 aircraft can fulfill 13:25 – The road to Mach 5 15:31 – Turbine vs. ramjet engine 18:06 – Is the turbine/ramjet engine hybrid novel? 19:03 – Philosophical concession 20:59 – Overcoming the Mach 3 plateau 23:07 – Where the primes stand on supersonic 25:10 – Thermal challenges of Mach 5 26:50 – Autonomy 29:20 – A manned Mach 5 craft 31:38 – Hermeus's current manufacturing capability and how it'll evolve 34:26 – Biggest opportunity for creating Hermeus customers 37:08 – Adversary capability 40:14 – Is commercial Mach 5 in the near future? 42:40 – Slowdown in innovation 45:40 – Do we need to overhaul the FAA? 47:34 – Aviation in 2035 if Hermeus succeeds 48:47 – Atlanta vs. LA 50:54 – What does Zach do for fun?   • Show notes • Hermeus’ website — https://www.hermeus.com/ Hermes’ socials — https://x.com/hermeuscorp Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://x.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://x.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://x.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/   • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), Decoding Bio (biotech) and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

    53 min

  4. May 20

    The New Ground Truth, with Dan Smoot (CEO of Vantor)

    Commercial geospatial intelligence has moved from nice-to-have imagery to core national security infrastructure. And Vantor is trying to reposition itself for that new era. On this week’s episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Dan Smoot, CEO of Vantor, to unpack the company’s transformation from a legacy satellite imagery provider into a space-based intelligence platform serving defense, intelligence, international, and enterprise customers. The shift is bigger than a rebrand. Vantor is betting that the future of geospatial intelligence is not just sharper pixels from orbit, but the ability to turn space-based data into software, AI-driven insights, autonomous navigation, sovereign intelligence systems, and real-time operational decision-making. We cover: How Vantor is moving beyond imagery into space-based intelligence Why the Maxar rebrand was necessary, even if controversial How commercial GEOINT is becoming a national security layer How Vantor’s 3D data supports autonomous systems and GPS-denied operations Why partnerships with companies like Anduril matter for the future battlefield How Ukraine changed the government’s view of commercial imagery Where Vantor fits into Golden Dome and missile defense Why sovereign geospatial capabilities are becoming a global priority …and much more.   • Chapters • 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:06 – Maxar Intelligence 02:39 – An outside view coming into the space industry 05:12 – The Maxar rebrand 09:00 – Product offerings and customers 12:15 – Vantage and Pulse 16:31 – Does being under a private equity firm change how Vantor operates? 18:53 – Vantor's partnership with Anduril 21:41 – EOCL (Earth Observation Commercial Layer) 25:24 – Cultural impact of commercial intelligence on global conflicts 29:46 – Vantor x Golden Dome architecture 30:48 – How Chinese tech compares to the US 33:25 – Capabilities of Tensorglobe that a customer could deploy today 36:17 – Raptor 38:42 – When will we have a sub-15-minute revisit at sub-20cm resolution? 43:35 – The winning valuation of Vantor for Advent 47:51 – Lanteris's revenue multiples 51:28 – What Dan would change about commercial EO and policy today 53:51 – What does Dan do for fun?   • Show notes • Vantor’s website — https://vantor.com Vantor’s’ socials — https://x.com/vantortech Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/   • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

    55 min

  5. May 13

    Space & Defense Market Update - April 2026 (LIVE from NYSE)

    This month, Mo and Jack host a two-hour live show featuring six leaders from the space industry: Ian Cinnamon (Apex) 05:18 • Philip Johnston (Starcloud) 20:18 • Eric Romo (Impulse) 35:11 • Karan Kunjur (K2 Space) 50:26 • Shahin Farshchi (Lux Capital) 1:05:28 • Delian Asparouhov (Varda / Founders Fund) 1:22:00 • Molly O'Shea (Sourcery) 1:41:25   We discuss satellite manufacturing, orbital data centers, in-space mobility, high-power buses, venture capital, and the future shape of the space economy.   • About us • Arkaea Media is building the definitive media, events, and intelligence platform for the future of the defense industrial base. We deliver high-quality journalism and actionable insights that shape the business, policy, and investment decisions underpinning technically complex and highly regulated industries that influence global security.   Our portfolio of publications (so far) includes Payload (space) and Tectonic (defense tech). Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

    1h 53m

  6. Apr 29

    The Flight Automation Era, with Mark Groden (CEO of Skyryse)

    The U.S. military doesn’t have enough pilots—and automation may be the only way to scale airpower. At the same time, Skyryse is formally launching its new defense unit, bringing its software-defined flight system, SkyOS, into military applications. On this week’s episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Mark Groden, CEO of Skyryse, to unpack how the company is building a universal operating system for aircraft that can dramatically simplify flight, reduce pilot burden, and enable fully autonomous operations when needed. The goal is ambitious: turn helicopters and airplanes into flexible, optionally piloted systems that can shift between crewed and uncrewed missions—unlocking a new model for force projection, logistics, and survivability. The conversation spans the tragic accident that inspired Mark to start Skyryse, why aviation’s biggest safety problem is really a technology problem, how SkyOS works across platforms from Robinson helicopters to Black Hawks, and why defense demand for autonomy is accelerating faster than most people realize. We cover: How SkyOS transforms aircraft into software-defined systems Why helicopters are so difficult and dangerous to fly today What Skyryse Defense is building for crewed, uncrewed, and autonomous missions How optionally piloted aircraft could reshape military logistics and ISR How Skyryse’s Series C positions the company for scale Why the future battlefield requires simpler, more adaptable systems …and much more.   • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 01:34 – The accident that changed Mark's life and mission 04:10 – A PhD in sensor data fusion 06:54 – The evolution of Skyryse 10:09 – Product stack 15:30 – New business unit 17:12 – Skyryse's partnership with the Army 19:39 – Why even build for humans? 21:35 – The software distribution of SkyOS 26:40 – Guinness World Record for autorotation 30:58 – Training commercial helicopter pilots with Skyryse 33:52 – Commercial picture for Skyryse 37:43 – Addressing the pilot shortage in the military 42:22 – Commercial regulations 45:39 – What certification unlocks for Skyryse 47:19 – Military regulatory process 48:53 – What Skyryse plans to do with their Series C funding 51:27 – How people's lives change if Skyryse is everywhere in 20 years 53:30 – Can you buy the Skyryse helicopter? 54:05 – What Mark does for fun when he's not building helicopters   • Show notes • Skyryse’s website — https://skyryse.com/ Skyryse’s’ socials — https://x.com/skyryse Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /   https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/   • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

    55 min

  7. Apr 1

    ARKAEA x NYSE Space & Defense March Update

    Yesterday we launched our first-ever live show from the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) called “The Space & Defense Market Update.” We brought together investors and analysts operating at every stage of the capital stack to stress-test what's real and what’s priced in. Capital markets are moving faster than anyone has clean answers for. Data centers in space are attracting serious money and serious skepticism in equal measure. Public market valuations are demanding a level of conviction that leaves little room for error. And NASA just rewrote its lunar roadmap while an astronaut crew prepares to fly around the Moon for the first time in fifty years. Our guests this month are: Mike Annunziata, Founder & Managing Partner of Also Capital Mark Danchak, Co-Founder & General Partner of General Innovation Capital Partners Mariana Perez Mora, Director, Bank of America Equity Research We get into: Why data centers in space will be willed into existence What early-stage investors can see in space and defense founders that later-stage capital only appreciates once it's obvious How public markets are actually pricing space and defense right now The Palantir valuation framework: what you have to believe, and whether those beliefs hold NASA's new lunar roadmap: Moon base over Gateway, crewed missions twice a year, and what it means for the commercial players already in the queue Why Artemis II launching tomorrow is a bigger deal than most people are treating it   • Show notes • Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Jack’s socials — https://x.com/JackKuhr Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense

    54 min

  8. Mar 25

    Autonomy at the Edge, with Scott Sanders (CGO of Forterra)

    Scott Sanders has seen the defense tech industry from just about every angle. As a Marine officer, he watched promising capability stall somewhere between a program office and the field. As an early employee at Anduril, he helped build one of the companies that bet it could do better.   Now, as Chief Growth Officer at Forterra, he's making that same bet on autonomous ground systems, a market that's been promised for years and is only now being put to the test. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we press Scott on what's actually working, what isn't, and where the hype is running ahead of the hardware.   We get into: Why the gap between a cool tech demo and a real defense business is wider than most founders think What investors still fundamentally misunderstand about defense timelines and business model risk Why most defense startups won't become primes and what the ones that do have in common How Forterra is approaching autonomy, mesh networking, and distributed operations at the tactical edge What it looks like to actually get capability to operators, not just into a program of record The procurement dysfunction that everyone in the room knows about and almost no one fixes   • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 00:50 – Sun Valley 03:14 – Scott’s time in the Philippines 09:04 – Why Scott joined Anduril 14:01 – Working with the government: then vs now 17:34 – What investors should look for in defense tech 20:27 – Forterra in 2022 vs 2026 25:12 – Forterra’s products today 26:39 – Autonomy-as-a-service model 30:13 – Hardware and software 32:36 – Commercial end users 33:52 – Why acquire mesh networking from goTenna? 37:27 – Current programs and contracts 40:55 – Fully autonomous systems in contested environments 44:30 – Hiring in a competitive defense tech industry 47:25 – How many SVDG companies could become primes? 47:52 – Exciting technologies for investors 51:46 – Forterra in 7–8 years 53:34 – What Scott does for fun   • Show notes • Forterra’s website — https://www.forterra.com/ Forterra’ socials — https://x.com/ForterraDrive= Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /   https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/   • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

    56 min
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4.7
out of 5
59 Ratings

About

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

Information

  • Creator
    Payload | Ignition | Tectonic
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    171
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Arkaea Media Group
  • Show Website
    Valley of Depth

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