The Bleeders: about book writing & publishing

Courtney Kocak
  • 5.0 (10)
  • BOOKS
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

The Bleeders is a podcast (and support group!) about book writing and publishing. Transparent conversations with authors, agents, and people in the publishing industry about how to write and sell books. The title is a nod to the famous (potentially misattributed) Hemingway quote: “There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed.” Sign up for The Bleeders companion Substack! https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome

  1. Before & After the Book Deal: The Truth About Publishing Success with Courtney Maum

    5D AGO

    Before & After the Book Deal: The Truth About Publishing Success with Courtney Maum

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today’s guest is Courtney Maum—novelist, memoirist, and author of Before and After the Book Deal—and she talks candidly about the reality of a writing career, the myth of the breakout book, and why longevity matters more than literary hype.In this episode, Courtney breaks down what publishing actually looks like across every lane: Big Five launches with national tours, indie presses that nurture your inner “art witch,” and self-publishing born out of necessity. She shares the story behind the book that almost never happened—and how the lowest advance of her career became the one that defined her platform—plus why the industry now expects authors to function as marketers, publicists, event planners, and content creators all at once.We also discuss building an audience in the newsletter era, the limits of social media, and why “a thousand true fans” is a better goal than virality. Courtney explains how writers can protect their mental health in a system built on comparison, what’s actually changed since 2020 (AI, proposals, platform pressure), and why readers—not gatekeepers—ultimately determine a book’s shelf life. This conversation is essential listening for any writer trying to build a sustainable creative career in today’s publishing landscape. Preorder Courtney Maum's latest book Alan Opts Out and preorder Courtney Kocak's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild. Subscribe to Courtney Maum's Substack Before & After The Book Deal. Follow her on Instagram @cbmaum, and buy your copy of Before and After the Book Deal on Bookshop.org, or wherever books are sold! The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar

    53 min
  2. How Sari Botton Blew Past Gatekeepers to Build a Writing Life on Her Own Terms

    12/28/2025

    How Sari Botton Blew Past Gatekeepers to Build a Writing Life on Her Own Terms

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today’s guest is Sari Botton, writer, editor, and publisher of the Substack hits Oldster and Memoir Land, joining The Bleeders to talk candidly about her unconventional path through publishing, why she ultimately chose ownership, longevity, and creative control over chasing traditional industry validation, and how she built a thriving ecosystem around her work. In this episode, Sari breaks down what it really takes to build a sustainable writing and publishing career outside the gatekeepers. She shares how she launched bestselling anthologies like Goodbye to All That and Never Can Say Goodbye after being repeatedly told “you can’t do that,” what it was like working at Longreads during a pivotal moment in digital publishing, and why Substack ultimately gave her the freedom she’d been seeking all along.  We also dig into her debut memoir And You May Find Yourself... and the realities of publishing creative nonfiction, including the emotional and ethical challenges of writing about real people, the importance of blurring and revision, and why small presses—and even self-publishing—can sometimes offer more protection and creative freedom than major publishers. This conversation is a must-listen for writers questioning what success in publishing actually looks like in the creator economy. Subscribe to Sari’s Substacks Oldster, Memoir Land, and Adventures in "Journalism." Follow her on Instagram @saribotton, and buy your copy of And You May Find Yourself... on Bookshop.org, or wherever books are sold! The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: How to Make 2026 Your Best Writing Year Yet: Manifest Your Writing Goals: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakNew Year’s Newsletter & Pitch Party Extravaganza (use code BLEEDERS for $100 off): https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/new-years-newsletter-pitch-party-extravaganza-2026How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak

    47 min
  3. Building a Book Like a Startup: Ali Kriegsman’s Playbook for Self-Publishing Success

    12/21/2025

    Building a Book Like a Startup: Ali Kriegsman’s Playbook for Self-Publishing Success

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today’s guest is author and entrepreneur Ali Kriegsman, joining The Bleeders to talk candidly about her path through traditional publishing, burnout, rejection—and ultimately choosing to self-publish her debut novel "The Raise" on her own terms. In this episode, Ali breaks down what it really took to launch a book without a traditional publisher: owning 100% of her rights, deciding not to invest in PR, building a highly visual TikTok-driven campaign, and treating herself as the CEO of her own book launch—and it WORKED. Ali even earned the Reese's Book Club stamp of approval! Ali opens up about the ego hit of not selling her novel on submission, the mindset shift required to embrace self-publishing, and how redefining success helped her rebuild confidence in her creative work. We also dig into the realities of book marketing, the trade-offs between traditional and self-publishing, genre confusion, rights ownership, audiobook decisions, and why writers have to decide what they’re optimizing for—whether that’s bestseller lists, longevity, or adaptation potential. Subscribe to Ali’s Substack New Motives, follow her on Instagram @alikriegs, and buy your copy of The Raise on Bookshop.org, Amazon, or wherever books are sold! The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: How to Make 2026 Your Best Writing Year Yet: Manifest Your Writing Goals: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakNew Year’s Newsletter & Pitch Party Extravaganza (use code BLEEDERS for $100 off): https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/new-years-newsletter-pitch-party-extravaganza-2026How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak

    53 min
  4. The Agony & Ecstasy of Going on Submission with Chloe Caldwell

    08/04/2025

    The Agony & Ecstasy of Going on Submission with Chloe Caldwell

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today's guest is author Chloe Caldwell's second interview for The Bleeders podcast. In this episode, Chloe shares two submission stories—one a nightmare and one a dream—along with advice for other writers on submission. Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeeeecaldwell and buy her new memoir, Trying, out on August 5th from Graywolf Press.  If you missed Chloe's first interview, listen here. The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writeordiemag.com/workshops/p/the-multi-passionate-writers-lifeHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarBack to School Pitch Party (use code BLEEDERS for $75 off): https://www.courtneykocak.com/teachingCreating Your Podcast: https://www.roadmapwriters.com/products/creating-your-podcast-0Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarPodcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop

    23 min
  5. “Brutalities” Author Margo Steines on Being a Teen Dominatrix, Pregnancy After ED & More

    07/14/2025

    “Brutalities” Author Margo Steines on Being a Teen Dominatrix, Pregnancy After ED & More

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today's guest is Margo Steines, author of ⁠Brutalities: A Love Story⁠. In this episode, we discuss Margo's experience as a dominatrix, sex work then vs. now, the toxic societal pressures on women's bodies in the 90s and how that resulted in eating disorders for both of us, her stint as a high-rise welder, advice she would give her former self about an abusive relationship, what it was like to be pregnant during the pandemic, how she feels about motherhood, and more. Follow Margo on Instagram ⁠@redstateblues⁠. For more episodes like this, search Private Parts Unknown wherever you listen to podcasts or visit privatepartsunknown.com. The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writeordiemag.com/workshops/p/the-multi-passionate-writers-lifeHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarCreating Your Podcast: https://www.roadmapwriters.com/products/creating-your-podcast-0Podcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop

    32 min
  6. What to Expect When You're on Submission: Elle Nash

    07/07/2025

    What to Expect When You're on Submission: Elle Nash

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today's guest is Elle Nash, author of Animals Eat Each Other, Nudes, Gag Reflex, and Deliver Me. In this episode, Elle shares her experiences with the book publishing, including getting an agent, going on submission, receiving rejections, and ultimately landing a deal with an independent press. Elle also gets into the arbitrary nature of the publishing industry, the importance of managing expectations, and the value of staying true to one's artistic vision. Follow Elle on Instagram @saderotic. The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarCreating Your Podcast: https://www.roadmapwriters.com/products/creating-your-podcast-0Podcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop

    21 min

  7. 06/30/2025

    How I'm Emotionally Fact-Checking My Memoir

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome In today's episode, host Courtney Kocak shares her experience attending a college reunion and how it's impacted her heading into the final revision of the manuscript for her debut memoir, GIRL GONE WILD, out March 2026 with Trio House Press! The trip brought together a close-knit group of old friends and gave her the chance to revisit college landmarks—leading to some real-time fact-checking… and what she’s calling “emotional fact-checking.” The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarCreating Your Podcast: https://www.roadmapwriters.com/products/creating-your-podcast-0Podcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop

    7 min
  8. What to Expect When You're on Submission: Dedeker Winston

    06/23/2025

    What to Expect When You're on Submission: Dedeker Winston

    Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome Today’s guest is Dedeker Winston, author of The Smart Girl’s Guide to Polyamory and co-author of Multiamory: Essential Tools for Modern Relationships. In this episode, Dedeker talks us through her publishing journey—from landing an agent to selling two books, including one co-written with her former polycule and podcast co-hosts. She opens up about the challenges of collaborative writing, the perks of working with more than one agent, and the emotional highs and lows of being on submission. Follow Dedeker on Instagram @dedekerwinston. The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com. Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in: Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarCreating Your Podcast: https://www.roadmapwriters.com/products/creating-your-podcast-0Podcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop

    30 min
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The Bleeders is a podcast (and support group!) about book writing and publishing. Transparent conversations with authors, agents, and people in the publishing industry about how to write and sell books. The title is a nod to the famous (potentially misattributed) Hemingway quote: “There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed.” Sign up for The Bleeders companion Substack! https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome

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