Send us Fan Mail THE FORGOTTEN UFO INVESTIGATOR: WILLIAM STEINMAN, AZTEC AND THE SECRETS OF WHITE SANDS This week’s summer rerun is a very personal episode for host Michael Ryan. Our guest is the late Dr. Frank Thayer—author, UFO researcher, professor emeritus at New Mexico State University and co-author of The Aztec UFO Incident. Long before appearing on UFO Talker, Frank was Michael’s journalism professor and mentor at Centennial College in Toronto. The lessons Frank taught him about journalism, writing and searching for the truth have remained with Michael throughout his career. Since this interview was originally recorded, Frank Thayer passed away on June 28, 2026, at the age of 86. In recognition of Frank’s lasting influence, the entire upcoming fifth season of UFO Talker will be dedicated to his memory. In this interview, Frank discusses William Steinman, the determined but largely forgotten researcher who investigated the alleged 1948 UFO recovery near Aztec, New Mexico. Steinman followed the trail left by Frank Scully’s controversial 1950 book, Behind the Flying Saucers, travelled to New Mexico and located what he believed was the Aztec recovery site. Frank describes Steinman as an intelligent, fact-based and tireless researcher who continued defending his conclusions until the end of his life. According to Frank, Steinman possessed additional information that never appeared in his published work, and his collection of research papers may have been lost following his death. The conversation also explores Steinman’s correspondence with Dr. Robert Sarbacher, including Sarbacher’s statements about scientists who may have been connected to classified UFO crash-recovery work. Frank recounts claims that Steinman was warned against publishing his research, suffered professionally after doing so and later believed he was being watched. Frank also explains why he considered the alleged Aztec recovery potentially even more significant than Roswell. Unlike the badly damaged object reportedly recovered near Roswell, the Aztec craft was said to have arrived largely intact, with 16 bodies allegedly discovered inside. Frank discusses the extensive work undertaken by Scott and Suzanne Ramsey to locate witnesses and determine how such a large craft could have been transported from the mesa to Los Alamos. The discussion then moves to the mysteries surrounding White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. Frank recounts reports of unidentified objects flying alongside experimental missiles, a landed translucent craft, automobile engines stopping beneath a hovering object, unusual V-2 missile incidents and other disturbing stories associated with the restricted military range. Some of these accounts remain unverified, but together they form a fascinating and little-known chapter of UFO history. Highlights include: William Steinman’s investigation of the alleged Aztec UFO recoveryWhy Frank Thayer believed Steinman deserved greater recognitionSteinman’s important correspondence with Dr. Robert SarbacherClaims that Steinman was warned not to publish his findingsThe possibility that Steinman’s unpublished research archive was lostWitness testimony associated with the alleged Aztec recoveryHow an intact craft could reportedly have been transported to Los AlamosUFOs allegedly observed near missiles tested at White SandsStrange aircraft and missile incidents in southern New MexicoFrank’s friendship with Stanton FriedmanFrank’s years teaching journalism at Centennial CollegeHis memories of teaching future Canadian comedy legend John CandyThe story behind the traditional journalism sign-off “30”At the conclusion of the interview, Michael explains that the number “30,” heard at the end of every UFO Talker episode, has always been a quiet tribute to Frank and everything he taught him. In traditional journalism, “30” signalled the end of a transmitted news story—confirmation that there were no additional pages to follow. Appropriately, Frank delivers the final words of this episode himself: “30. That’s a wrap.” Frank Thayer will be deeply missed, but his voice, his work and the knowledge he passed on to generations of students will continue. Visit: www.ufotalker.ca Email: ufotalker@bell.net Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. Keep watching the skies. From the UFO Talker Summer “Best Of” Repeat Series Season 2, Episode 9 Originally aired November 1, 2023 Support the show To buy UFO Talker merchandise follow this link here. Female announcer: Joy Ryan Male announcer: Andrew Helbig The National UFO Records Center link here Christine Scott's Centennial Books 1230 Broad Street. Regina, Sask.
