Keep Going

John Biggs
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When you're going through Hell, keep going." This is a podcast about failure and how it breeds success. Every week, we will talk to amazing people who have done amazing things yet, at some point, experienced failure. By exploring their experiences, we can learn how to build, succeed, and stay humble. It is hosted by author and former New York Times journalist John Biggs. Our theme music is by Policy, AKA Mark Buchwald. (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/policy/) www.keepgoingpod.com

  1. The Innovators: Making AI Pay Its Own Way With Lava Founder Mitchell Jones

    2D AGO

    The Innovators: Making AI Pay Its Own Way With Lava Founder Mitchell Jones

    On this episode of The Innovators, I sat down with Mitchell Jones, founder of Lava, to talk about one of the least glamorous and most urgent problems in AI right now, getting paid without going broke. Mitchell is building what amounts to billing infrastructure for AI products. If you are running agents, LLM powered tools, or anything where compute costs change by the minute, you already know the problem. Traditional payment systems were built for flat subscriptions. AI is not a flat subscription business. Lava sits in the middle. It routes AI model calls through a gateway, tracks real time usage and cost, and lets companies price that usage in a way that actually preserves margins. You can choose how much you want to make per action, per credit, or per customer, and Lava handles the rest, including paying through to the underlying model providers. What makes this urgent is something most founders are only now learning the hard way. In AI, your best customer can be your worst customer. Power users can quietly rack up massive compute bills while paying the same monthly fee as everyone else. That model worked in SaaS. It breaks fast in AI. Mitchell’s insight is simple and hard to argue with. AI behaves more like a utility than a software license. Utilities are metered. SaaS pricing is not. Lava exists to close that gap. We also talked about where the company came from. Mitchell has spent his career deep in payments, running Facebook’s digital wallet in emerging markets and founding a prior fintech company before starting Lava earlier this year. He did not wake up one day and decide to build an AI company. He talked to customers. Over and over. When everyone said they were duct taping Stripe together and hated it, he knew there was a real problem. The conversation also veered into founder advice, especially for people outside the usual tech pipelines. Mitchell grew up in Dayton, Ohio. His path ran through finance internships, late CS coursework, Dropbox, Facebook, and then startups. His advice was consistent throughout, do not stare at the top of the mountain. Focus on the next step. Compounding effort matters more than pedigree. Lava has moved fast. The company landed its first customers within months, raised a $5.8 million round, and now works with AI startups and legacy companies trying to shift from flat SaaS pricing to usage based models. If you are building anything with AI under the hood and have felt that creeping sense of dread when the compute bill hits, this episode will feel uncomfortably familiar. You can check out what Mitchell and his team are building at lava.so. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    20 min

  2. 4D AGO

    Keep Going: From Corporate Storyteller to Remaking the Story of Anne Frank From a Southern Perspective

    I caught up with Marcos Bravo, a Chilean guy living in Portugal, who has spent most of his adult life bouncing between tech, sales, marketing, and whatever paid the bills. He is 46 now. He has a family. And he is in that phase where you look at your work and ask a blunt question: Is this all I am showing my kids, that life is just paying bills. Marcus is not doing the clean midlife pivot. He is doing the messy version. He wrote a book because he had time, he was unemployed, and he needed to put the stories somewhere or he was going to lose his mind. He got the idea after seeing a tweet about how, with everything going on, we might see another Anne Frank “in our backyard.” That stuck with him. He started writing a kids book, got blocked, then wrote a different story that took shape. It became Ana Luz’s Diary, about a girl named Anna hiding in an attic with her brother and aunt, trying to stay quiet because noise brings the wrong people. He ran it past his daughter, she signed off, and he shipped it. At the same time, he is doing video work for companies because that is what keeps things running. He is starting an ice cream brand with his wife. He is putting together a punk band in Portugal. He is trying things, not because it is efficient, but because he is trying to figure out what feels like his life. He said he does not want to be a one road guy. When something feels right, he wants to take a shot. We also talked about why storytelling still matters when AI can generate words all day. His point was simple. The missing part is connection. You can generate a story, but you cannot replace the feeling of a real person looking you in the eye and saying something that lands. He ties it back to work, too. In marketing and sales, if you do not know people, you cannot connect to people. Your story falls flat. He is also clear-eyed about aging in tech. He worries about how long he can keep doing what he does, and whether the industry will move on without him. His answer is to stop chasing status. He does not want to manage people. He wants to deliver a specific thing well, mentor when asked, and stay useful. He thinks experience will matter again, not as a title, but as real history you can apply. The part that stuck with me was how he thinks about safety. He does not judge people who stay in the cubicle. He just does not want to end up like his dad, who spent decades in one company and now, at 75, feels like he missed his chance to do more. Marcos wants to look back and say, that was a lot, that was worth it. He framed his goals in a way I liked. He wants to give his kids a few core memories they will actually keep. A trip to Japan for his daughter. A steak in New York for his son, yes, Peter Luger. He wants those things, and he wants to be able to say his own life was good too. He even mentioned he stopped drinking and still enjoys life, which is its own kind of data point. This is the whole point. You do not need a clean plan. You need motion. You try things. You keep what works. You drop what does not. You pay the bills, but you do not let that become the only story your kids learn from you. Marcos is doing it in a way that looks chaotic from the outside, but it has a clear center. He is trying to make sure his life is not just a job history, it is a life. His book is Ana Luz’s Diary, by Marcos Bravo. If you want to see what he made, it is on Amazon. Transcript John Biggs (00:27.042) Welcome back to Keep Going, a podcast about success and failure. I’m John Biggs. Today on the show we have Marcus Bravo. He’s Chilean. He lives in Portugal now. I met him in Poland when we were pros approximately, I think, six years old, I think. That’s what it feels like at this point, right? So welcome, Marcus. You’re an author, you’re a marketer, you’ve done loads of work. Marcos Bravo C. (00:46.072) Yeah, something like that. Yeah. John Biggs (00:55.252) over the years with multiple clients, multiple places, and now you’re kind of doing your own brand. You’re kind of building your own presence. So why don’t you tell me what you’re working on. Marcos Bravo C. (01:03.398) So, well, I like you said, I moved to Portugal from Poland two years already here. And yeah, I needed to start something else. I mean, felt that I was getting old for being the tech guy or the sales guy. And I just thought, well, let’s see what I can do. Right. So a mix of crazy stuff. You try to do everything that you think that you feel that it can. be sort of meaningful to yourself, but you really realize that you don’t know what’s meaningful to yourself. So you have to rediscover all of that. one of the things I’m doing now, I just wrote a book, which was on my bucket list, I guess. I wrote a book. I’m starting with video again. I started putting together a punk rock band here in Portugal. mean, Jesus, I’ve been trying to do everything just to figure out. what’s the right thing to do. And when you have a family, you have to figure out how to the bills. So I’m still having an affair with tech. But basically, I’m just trying to still discover things when I’m 46, which is I don’t know if it’s right or not, but it’s weird. John Biggs (02:06.734) Mm-hmm. John Biggs (02:11.011) What is that impetus to discover as we get older? Marcos Bravo C. (02:16.756) I guess I get so used to, well, I have to figure out how to pay the bills and that’s it. I started figuring out, well, what am I showing my kids? Is it all about money? Is it all about just to go through life without trying to not die of hunger? And I wanted to do something that is meaningful for me as well. I had to sort of ask permission. It’s like, do you mind if I don’t do this? crap, I make less money, but I do something else that might be more meaningful. And that’s what I’m doing. I mean, the whole book came out of almost an accident, just like watching videos of people writing books, trying to come up with an idea. And because I couldn’t write the book that I wanted to write, I ended up writing another book that ended up taking shape. And now it’s on sale. mean, every little step that I’m doing is just sort of showing me something new. And like you said, we’ve been around for a while. We’ve been doing tech. John Biggs (02:48.429) Mm-hmm. Marcos Bravo C. (03:15.374) all the stuff for many years, but there’s always a space for something new, something better, something meaningful. John Biggs (03:25.378) What does it mean to be meaningful, right? So your book is Analyst’s Diary, which is a kid’s book, right? And it’s about a little girl, why don’t you tell us the story? Marcos Bravo C. (03:37.382) So basically, Andalus came out, I was writing a kids book, I was writing a bunch of stories, like very cool, fun, weird, scary, whatever. And then when I was blocked, I was like, well, I need to write something else. And I remember seeing a tweet right before started writing. It says like, with all this happening around the world, we soon we’re to have an Anne Frank in our backyard. And I was like, right, well. What if Anne Frank’s still around? There are many Anne Franks around the world, especially with how things are. So I started to write the story, like, how would I see from maybe like a little bit of a Latin view or like trying to add my own experiences into this little girl called Anna who got stuck in the attic with her brother and her auntie and they’re trying to figure out how to be quiet because noise will bring more people, will bring the bad people. John Biggs (04:06.926) Mm-hmm. John Biggs (04:29.976) Mm-hmm. Marcos Bravo C. (04:30.38) And that ended up taking very nice shape. I started adding all of the things that I knew of storytelling. And I created a story that is maybe not an easy to read story, but it made sense to me and it made sense. mean, my daughter had to approve it. So it made sense to her too. It worked. John Biggs (04:48.782) Is the goal to just do this? Is the goal to allow this to be part of your personality, part of how you grow? Do you think it’s Marcos Bravo’s for the rest of your life? Or is it Marcos Bravo who does everything else that you’ve done before, Marcos Bravo C. (05:11.43) I think it has to be a mix. The first thing I realized for sure is that I don’t want to be the one road guy. But every time or anytime there’s something that feels good, that feels right. The world, let’s give it a shot. For sure I’m writing more. I love writing and I’ve been writing since I was a kid and this is the first time I actually said, and this is because I was unemployed. I’m like, I have all this time in my hand. I need to do something, otherwise I’m gonna go crazy. So I need to put stories in there and it felt right and that’s definitely something I want to keep exploring and we’re going to keep doing. John Biggs (05:52.014) Tell me about storytelling in general. How do you use storytelling in your career? How do you use it to, well, mean, first off, beat AI, right? Because right now we can blast out. We could feasibly blast out your book if we gave it the idea. We would just blast it out. It wouldn’t be any good. But how do you keep that humanity? How do you keep that aspect of storytelling? Marcos Bravo C. (06:09.989) Yeah. Marcos Bravo C. (06:16.271) Well, mean, AI, even though it’s been helpful with many things, I I use it quite often for work, but it was a huge threat for me because I mean, my whole career beside marketing and sense of whatever is because of storytelling is because I found that I can tell stories that people want to listen. And rediscovering that people, yeah, they’re okay with that. can create stories in AI like that. But it’s this connection that is missing, like you and I talking, you and I look at each other and having that feeling, that’s irreplaceable. That’s not going to happen anytime soon. It might happen. Absolutely. mean, anything

    17 min
  3. The Innovators: Inside a Startup on the Cutting Edge of Fintech

    FEB 4

    The Innovators: Inside a Startup on the Cutting Edge of Fintech

    On this episode of The Innovators, I spoke with Jasper Fu, CEO of CoinSub, about what crypto payments actually look like when you strip away the hype and aim for real adoption. CoinSub has been operating for roughly two and a half years and has grown to a 22-person team, most of them engineers. The company’s focus is narrow by design. Instead of trying to convince millions of merchants to adopt crypto directly, CoinSub sells infrastructure to payment service providers. These are the companies that already process card payments for thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, of merchants. CoinSub’s bet is that adoption happens faster when crypto looks like just another payment option, not a new system merchants have to learn. Fu framed the problem simply. Crypto and stablecoins are often described as liquid assets, but in practice they are hard to use for everyday payments. Merchants do not want to think about wallets, chains, or conversions. They want money in their bank accounts. CoinSub handles the movement behind the scenes, converting between dollars, Bitcoin, and stablecoins, then packaging that capability so payment processors can offer it under their own brands. For merchants, the experience is meant to feel familiar. Crypto becomes another icon at checkout, alongside cards or digital wallets. Whether funds settle as stablecoins or dollars is not something the merchant has to manage. Fu compared it to card networks. Merchants do not think about how Visa or Mastercard clears transactions, they just expect it to work. That distribution strategy also shapes CoinSub’s view of competition. While many crypto payment companies target merchants directly, CoinSub targets the providers upstream. There are billions of dollars flowing through a relatively small number of payment processors, many of which lack the technical capacity to build crypto infrastructure themselves. CoinSub positions itself as a way for those companies to keep pace without rebuilding their stacks. Usage data suggests there is real demand, even if it remains early. Fu said CoinSub processed roughly $400 million in transaction volume last year. That number varies widely by region and industry, but it reflects actual consumer-to-business payments, not trading or speculation. Some sectors adopt faster than others, including cross-border commerce and industries that struggle to maintain stable card processing relationships. Fu pushed back on the idea that crypto adoption hinges on hype cycles. He views blockchain and tokenization as infrastructure, a more efficient way to store and move data and value. Speculation and scams, he argued, appear in every new technology wave and do not define the underlying system. In his view, hype draws attention, but utility determines what survives. Stablecoins are central to CoinSub’s timing. Fu said regulatory clarity, treasury backing, and growing institutional interest have aligned incentives across governments, issuers, and payment networks. Payments and commerce, he said, are the logical next phase after issuance. Once stablecoins exist at scale, the question becomes how people actually use them. Fu’s path to CoinSub started outside crypto. After leaving a corporate role, he took time off to think about what he wanted to build next. Payments stood out as a place where incremental efficiency could have broad impact. Making money movement cheaper and more accessible, particularly across borders, felt like a net positive use of time and capital. That mindset also shapes CoinSub’s internal culture. Fu said he prefers the startup environment because it allows for empathy-first leadership and long-term thinking. He believes effort cannot be bought, only invited, and that teams perform better when people are treated as contributors rather than interchangeable resources. Looking ahead, CoinSub is expanding beyond its initial engineering phase. The company is working to capture more of the payment service provider market while it still has an early mover advantage. Longer term, Fu sees applications beyond checkout, including payouts, invoicing, and potentially ATMs, anywhere money needs to move across systems or borders. Fu is realistic about maturity. He expects fragmentation before consolidation, with many stablecoins and blockchains competing before a smaller set emerges as dominant. In that environment, CoinSub’s role is to abstract complexity away from customers and let them benefit from whichever systems ultimately win. Crypto payments, in Fu’s telling, are not about replacing everything overnight. They are about quietly fitting into existing workflows until their presence feels unremarkable. That, more than price swings or headlines, is what adoption looks like. Transcript John Biggs (00:07.982) Welcome back to The Innovators, a podcast about amazing people doing amazing things. Today on the show I have Jasper Fu. He’s the CEO of CoinSub, a stable coin operation. We do a lot of crypto on here, so I’m happy to have somebody back from the crypto world. Welcome, Jasper. Jasper Fu (00:27.501) Thanks for having me, John. John Biggs (00:28.588) Yeah. So tell us about CoinSub. How long have you been around and what are you up to? Jasper Fu (00:33.923) Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve been around for two and a half years. The team is about 22 people now with 17 being engineers. And what we jumped into the space to do is like everyone’s heard of this stable coin crypto blockchain Bitcoin stuff, right? And there’s a variety of value, value props. But what we realized is a lot of it’s just not hitting to the mass market. We particularly target payment service providers in fintechs, right? A lot of stable coin around, a lot of Bitcoin around, why can’t we pay with it was our first thought. You say it’s liquid, how do we make it liquid? And as we dug into the space, we realized this early, early stage of adoption, there’s a lot of demand from both the merchants, the businesses, as well as these payment providers to be able to offer this, right? But this is totally new tech to them. And most of the solutions in this space are either going for, hey, directly to the businesses themselves, or they’re these esoteric APIs that are hard for non-technical people to understand. So what we do is we pre-build out the infrastructure so that somebody could go from US dollars to Bitcoin to stable coin to US dollars. And we apply that to different things like payment acceptance and payouts. and we wrap and package that whole thing up and allow other companies, allow other payment providers who are already selling say card payments to now add this additional capability underneath their own brand. John Biggs (02:07.726) Interesting. in a nutshell, is the focus more on stablecoins? Is the focus more on general crypto? What am I as a merchant? So say I’m a merchant, want to sell my widgets online or I want to sell them in the store. What am I doing with you guys? How do you sell to me? Jasper Fu (02:25.924) So merchants usually get their payment products through their payment provider. So that’s the interesting insight that we had, right? You usually only want to work with one person and that might be say your stripe or your clover or whatever it is. So we actually sell to the clovers, you know, the clovers of the world, the payment service, the payment processors of the world. But what that looks like for the merchant is you reach a point of awareness where you’re like, I know that I should probably accept this kind of payment, but at the end of the day, I’m just trying to expand my business and grow my revenue. So for us, it’s just one more thing that gets added on at checkout, and that’s the last thing you have to worry about. Whether it ends up as stable coin or whether it ends up in US dollars in your bank, you shouldn’t have to worry about it. Focus on your business. You don’t worry about how your credit card gets there from Visa or MasterCard, and you don’t worry about how PayPal, Google Pay, Apple Pay, Clarion don’t work. And so that’s the kind of level of adoption we want to bring where people understand that there’s some value there and we just go, great, here you go. Let me make sure that it’s comfortable for you. John Biggs (03:32.383) So the icons when you check out are like credit card, don’t know, PayPal, Venmo, Alipay, and then crypto. OK. You’ve got a lot of competition in that space. How is that working out? Jasper Fu (03:37.997) with crypto. Jasper Fu (03:46.244) So the competition in this space would only apply if the target market is the merchants themselves. There’s very few companies that are actually targeting the payment service providers. If you think about it, there’s hundreds of millions of merchants in the world that capture trillions of dollars of payment volume. But there’s only really thousands of payment service providers, independent sales orgs, and these are the ones that are already kind of selling card processing. they’ve already captured the entire market. And the reality is most of these have been around for 15, 20, 25 years and they’re not tech savvy. So when you get these first movers like a stripe, right, offering stable coin payment acceptance, what that actually does for the rest of the industry is it pressures kind of the middle of the pack or the earlier adopters to take action. And there’s not enough time for them to build it because as you said, the space is saturated and it applies to not just crypto but traditional payments as well. And so the options to buy and to date, we think of ourselves as like orthogonal to the competition. Our difference isn’t in what necessarily we’re offering them as an end product but rather the deployment model. Rather than deploying it to the merchants and trying to onboard millions of merchants, we onboard a couple dozen. payment providers that then grant us access to hundreds of

    20 min
  4. Keep Going: How An Economics Major Turned to Gold

    FEB 2

    Keep Going: How An Economics Major Turned to Gold

    This week on Keep Going I talked with Nelly Mendoza, the founder of Nelly Creative Studios. She has been making jewelry for about ten years, and her story is not a clean startup arc. It starts with her walking into a class in the basement of her college art center, kind of by accident, and finding the one thing she kept coming back to, even while she was majoring in economics. The part that stuck with me was how practical she is about an “impractical” career. She did not raise outside money. She took a few fellowships, one was about $5,000 after graduation, and used it to buy materials, mainly gold, and get herself set up. After that, she kept the loop tight, money from projects went back into materials and equipment. There is no magic here. It is repetition, reinvestment, and staying alive long enough to get better. She also talked about the part people skip when they say “follow your passion.” In a creative business there is no set path. There is no job ladder. It is trial and error, and it can be lonely. She described those stretches where sales slow down and you start asking if you should turn around and do something safer. She had those moments. She also knew that if she took the safe route too early, she might never leave it. So she learned to measure progress in small wins, one new client, one new piece, one new idea, and keep moving. On the growth side, she did the work that actually gets attention. She built a consistent online presence, wrote blogs, kept a “jewelry journal,” and made her brand for both men and women, not just women. She leaned on word of mouth because jewelry is visual, people see it, ask about it, and that conversation sells better than an ad. Then she added something a lot of online brands miss, physical experiences. Last year she rented a gallery, invited people she trusted, and let them handle the pieces in person. No storefront, so she created the moment herself. She is planning another pop-up, and she is careful about safety and about building a real community around the work. One more choice mattered. She took a job at Tiffany, in their innovation studio, for four years. Not to quit her business, but to buy time and learn. She called it a kind of second degree. It gave her skills, contacts, and more confidence in how the industry works. Then she left when she felt the job was taking too much time away from the thing she wanted to own. That is a hard call, and she made it without pretending it was romantic. It was about control and focus. Her economics degree shows up in how she thinks about pricing and tradeoffs. She does not price from feelings. She prices from materials, opportunity cost, and the reality that gold has gotten expensive enough that old prices do not work anymore. She is now thinking about entry-level pieces for younger followers, using different materials, without turning the work into disposable trend-chasing. If you want the lesson from this episode, it is this. Making your own way is slow and it is messy. You do not need a dramatic leap. You need enough runway to learn, enough discipline to reinvest, and enough patience to stick with the lonely parts. Allie built her business the old-fashioned way, one piece at a time, one customer at a time, and one decision at a time. That is still how it works. Transcript: Welcome back to Keep Going, podcast about success and failure. I’m John Biggs. The other show we have Nelly Mendoza. She’s the founder of Nelly Creative Studios, your jewelry maker. Nelly, welcome. Yeah, so you’ve been doing this for 10 years. I think you’re the first person I’ve talked to who is actually making jewelry or some kind of like Nelly (00:58.162) Thank you. Nelly (01:02.184) I have closed ears now, yep. John Biggs (01:09.728) or accessories, etc. So this is a this is a new one for me. So why don’t you just tell me about the business and how you started. Nelly (01:15.45) Yeah, so I started in college kind of by accident. Just enjoyed making jewelry, just walked in into a class one day into like the basement of the art center and then started making jewelry that way. And then I was an econ major, kind of went back and forth in terms of careers, but the one consistent thing was always jewelry. And then once it was time to pick a career, you know, last... last semester or last quarter of school, I decided to try jewelry. I got, yeah, so I started that way. At first, I wasn’t sure what it would look like and how the future would pan out. But as time continued, I kind of figured things out a little bit more. John Biggs (02:04.536) So what was the driving force behind this decision? I mean, you had an economics degree and making jewelry is, I suspect, fairly difficult thing because it’s fashion-based and I can’t imagine that it’s cheap to get started. Nelly (02:23.694) No, it’s not cheap for sure. You have to be creative in terms of, know, I never got any external funding just because I know what that means. It’s like giving up control of who you are and the type of work you’re working on. So the only funding I got was a few fellowships. Like post-graduation, I got like $5,000 to just buy materials. So I just bought gold and a few other things. And then I was kind of set up in terms of a studio space. I used the space in the college for a bit. And then that was my first kind of funding. And then after that, I continued to self-fund whatever projects I would get, I would just kind of put back into my work. So I would just go back into buying gold or materials or equipment. John Biggs (03:14.926) So tell me about the process. How do you start a jewelry business? What were some of the things that you faced? Nelly (03:24.04) The reason I started was because there was really nothing else that I wanted to do. No, you know, it’s, difficult at first. You’re like, okay, I want to do this career, but how do you do it? It’s not as easy as, okay, I want to work in investment banking. Let me apply for different roles. And then I’ll go through these application process, you know, application rounds and interview rounds. It’s more of, okay, you want to do this. You have a goal, but how do you get there? It’s not. Like someone has done that already and laid a path for you. So it’s a lot of trial and error in terms of how do you get to where you want to be right from you. It was always having control of my own work, being independent and just making beautiful things and having people buy by them as well. Right. John Biggs (04:12.794) Mm-hmm. How do you get attention as an artist in that way? mean, obviously, you need to build a fan base. You need to build folks that are repeat customers. But you also have to capture people who are just going to come off the street and say, hey, I like this. What did you do to get started? Nelly (04:31.558) Yeah, so I definitely made sure I had a strong presence online. So all of my socials and whatever I was putting out very consistent. So I would always write blogs and I have a jewelry journal just based on, okay, like this is, you know, what the trends are happening for men. And, you know, and I always focused on having serving both men and women as opposed to just doing jewelry for women. and just having that consistent product, right? So I started my first clients where people I went to school with and then just kind of started telling their friends. And fortunately, jewelry is a very visual product. you know, people see it on you and they’re like, I like it, it’s easy to sell in that way. So you always, you know, I have the work that I wear, but I also, the best people, Are my best clients or those who wear it and kind of tell their friends? So it’s a lot of word of mouth. And then how do you get it to the wider public? Last year I had my first show. So I rented out a gallery and I just invited friends, friends of friends and, and so on. And a few people who walked in, but it was a closed event, private, just kind of getting, you know, it’s like, people have kind of known me for a bit, but don’t really know who I am and letting them interact with my. product, especially since I don’t have a store or anything like that. Just having the physical aspect has also helped. So that’s kind of like the next phase of my business, just continuing those pop-up ideas. So I have one planned for this year, for example, somewhere in SoHo again, and just letting people interact with the product. And this will be for a bigger client base. First one was mostly for people already knew. Obviously you’re dealing with jewelry. You don’t want just anyone walking in. I want people to feel safe when they’re in there as opposed to someone randomly walking in and being a safety thing. So I’m always careful about who I invite and making sure they’re interested just to create, because I’m not just making jewelry or selling jewelry. I also want a good community of people who enjoy my work or who enjoy the arts. Nelly (06:54.648) and as opposed to just, you know, it’s just something I sell. John Biggs (07:00.206) Was there ever a moment when you said, I should probably get back into investment banking? Nelly (07:05.339) that’s very interesting. would say, yes, definitely a few moments where you’re just like, okay, like I’m not selling as much jewelry. just, you know, the creative, the creative career is so interesting because it’s very lonely. You go through these moments where you’re just walking a path and you’re like, this is the right path. Or is it time for me to turn around? I would say once I was past those dark moments of doubt, I was like, all right, I just have to keep going and things, you know, you have to build slowly. And for me, like the reason I didn’t go until one of those traditional careers starting off is because I knew I would get trapped in that safety net very early on. And it’s once you’re in that, it’s so difficult to leave. So at

    18 min
  5. Keep Going: No Founder Should Go to War Alone

    12/29/2025

    Keep Going: No Founder Should Go to War Alone

    This week on Keep Going, I sat down with Karl Alomar, Managing Partner at M13, and former COO of DigitalOcean. Carl’s career, when you say it fast, sounds like a highlight reel. He came to the US from England with an engineering background, started his first company in California in the late 90s, sold it in 2000, got an MBA at Columbia, built a global fintech business to real revenue and exited in 2010, then joined DigitalOcean and helped take it from early product days to IPO. Now he invests at M13. I pushed him on the part people skip, the moment where it almost breaks. He told a story from his first company that still makes my stomach drop. They were raising a big round for the time, about $20 million. Closing day. Fire alarm. Everyone in the parking lot. He gets a call on a brick of a phone. The lead investor tells him the bottom just fell out, they cannot close, they do not know if they ever will. That is not a small problem. That is the whole floor giving way. Carl had to make choices fast. Cut the team in half. Slash spend. Decide whether to try to patch the round together without a lead, which is close to impossible when the mood turns. He had been approached by potential buyers earlier, and in a hot market those talks feel optional, almost annoying. In a cold market, those talks are the only door that still opens. He took the door. In about two months they got an exit. Not the dream outcome, but a real outcome. People got returns, everyone lived to fight again. What stuck with him was not the deal mechanics. It was the loneliness. He said he had no deep bench. No real board support, no real advisor bench, no system around him when the air went out of the room. He was young, the pressure was on him, and he felt like an island. His lesson was blunt. Never go into battle without an army. In plain terms, build a support network before you need it. Investors, board members, mentors, peers, people who can tell you the truth, and keep you steady enough to make good calls. I asked him what that looks like in real life. He was clear that it is not some magic fix. For him it is not a yogi. It is the people you choose to take money from, the board you build, the mentors you keep close, the peers you can call when you are scared and tired and tempted to lie to yourself. He also noted that the culture has changed. Coaching is normal now. Mental health is talked about more openly. In the late 90s, money was just money, and nobody asked what came with it. Then we moved into the question sitting in the room with all of us right now. AI. Are we headed for another crash, another 2000. Carl pushed back on the timing in a way I found useful. He thinks we are closer to 1996 or 1997 than 2000. Early. The “killer” product is not fully settled. He used the browser era as a frame. People thought browsing was the point, but search was the point, and Google won by solving that. His take is that AI still has not found its final shape, not in a way that locks the category down. We have chat tools and model access, but the big lasting system, the one that makes the next giants, is still coming into view. He also pointed out something practical that founders feel every day. Building in AI is still expensive and hard. The tools and the cost curve have not flattened the way cloud did for web builders. If cloud made it cheap to ship software, what makes it cheap to ship AI. Better access to compute, better tools around data and GPUs, better infra. He is excited about the boring part, the picks and shovels that let more people build. I asked the other side of it, the part people whisper about. If you are a regular worker and a wave is coming, what do you do. Carl did not pretend he could map the next 20 years. But he did say the labor market shifts, it does not just vanish. Some work gets automated, other work shows up, and the shift is not overnight. He brought up the growth of gig work, the rise of people building independent lives outside big firms, and the simple fact that lots more people now want to build things than they did decades ago. He sees that trend getting stronger as tools get better. He is not an AI cynic. He thinks cynicism is a way to lose twice, first by missing what is real, then by refusing to adapt. He is optimistic, but he keeps a realist’s eye on the losers that come with any big wave. As we wrapped, I asked what he looks for when he sees the fiftieth “Fitbit for dogs.” He laughed, because he has seen it. His answer was old school. He starts with the founder. Can he work with this person for years. Do they have vision, and can they explain it. Can they hire. Can they raise. Can they steer when the first plan fails. He brought up Slack’s origin story, a good reminder that a strong founder can turn a weak start into a real company. That is the episode in a line. Big waves come, and they always feel obvious after. In the moment, they are confusing, loud, and full of bad copies. The way through is still the same. Keep your head. Build your people around you. Make choices you can defend in the morning. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    23 min
  6. Keep Going: Rebuilding the Middle Class, with Mechele Dickerson

    12/22/2025

    Keep Going: Rebuilding the Middle Class, with Mechele Dickerson

    Some talks stick under your skin. This one did. On this week’s Keep Going I sat down with Mechele Dickerson, a law professor at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law. Her new book is called “The Middle Class New Deal: Restoring Upward Mobility in the American Dream.” It comes out in January 2026. I picked up the pitch because I have the same nagging feeling everyone else has. The middle class we grew up hearing about feels thin now. Like an old photograph in a cracked frame. Mechele has spent more than a decade trying to write this book. That part alone makes her a good guest for a show about success and failure. She started years ago with a book on homeownership. While she worked on that, she kept seeing a larger pattern. Families were not just locked out of houses. They were locked out of everything we used to connect with a stable life. She saw people who made a decent wage yet could not do basic “middle class” things without strain. So she built a bigger project. She sold the first version of the book to a press. The idea was clear. It is harder than ever for lower and middle income people to become and stay middle class. It is even harder if you are not white. Then the world started shifting under her feet. The 2016 election hit. Commentators suddenly cared about “middle class anger” and “anxiety.” She did not buy the story as it was told, but she knew she had to respond to it. So she rewrote the book to fit that moment. Then 2020 arrived. A pandemic tore through the same families she had been studying. You cannot write about money, housing, and work in this country and ignore those years. She rewrote again. That second rewrite blew up. Reviewers tore it apart. The publisher walked away. A decade of work, gone in one email. This is the point where many people quietly give up. Mechele did something different. She took the hit, walked away for a season, enjoyed Thanksgiving and Christmas, then came back and started from page one. A third draft. New press. New title. Same core idea. That alone is a lesson. Sometimes the work is right and the timing is wrong. Sometimes you are right and the gatekeeper is wrong. You rest. You come back. You keep going. The rest of the talk dug into what “middle class” even means. Mechele uses a simple income band, roughly seventy five to one hundred thirty thousand dollars a year. She picked it for a practical reason. It is the range many universities use when they hand out tuition breaks to families they see as “middle income.” It also adjusts over time, which matters. She is quick to note that income does not land the same in each place. That money looks one way in Abilene, Texas, and another in Austin. Still, the markers are familiar. A home you can afford. A job with health care and some sort of retirement plan. The ability to send your kids to college without wrecking your own future. Maybe a bit put aside for shocks. Her bluntest point is simple. We did not arrive here by magic. The old middle class was built by policy. The GI Bill sent people like my dad to college. New mortgage rules turned owning a house from a rich person’s trick into something workers could reach. Employers built health and pension plans when they could not raise wages during the war. We treat those pieces as background now. They are not. They were choices. They could be made again in new forms. Instead, college costs have climbed far faster than inflation since the eighties. Need blind admission is fading. “Merit” scholarships tilt money toward kids from richer families who look good on paper. Employers use a bachelor’s degree as a filter, so a diploma has become a ticket to even knock on the door. On housing, the ladder keeps moving up. The average age for first time homebuyers is rising. People float the idea of fifty year mortgages, which Mechele, quite correctly, calls “rent” with different branding. If you buy at forty and pay for fifty years, do the math. She walked through how zoning locks people out. Large minimum lot sizes. Rules that make it hard to put up multifamily units. Homeowners’ associations that wrap it all in “protecting values” while making sure cheaper units never appear. At city level, at state level, we have built a system that slowly pushes normal families away from the places where opportunity sits. I pushed the conversation toward entrepreneurship, because the show often goes there. For a lot of kids, the fantasy now is that a startup will be their scratch off. You cannot count on a steady wage to get the markers. So you dream of building the next app, or site, or whatever, to leap straight over the grind. She agreed with the feeling, but brought it back to ground. Starting a business takes capital. Capital comes from family wealth, or from a house you can borrow against, or from a system that lends to people with no cushion. If your parents do not have money and you do not own a home, you are playing with thinner odds. That does not mean you should never try. It does mean we should be honest about the risk. Near the end I told a story about my own family. My grandparents in Ohio, steel town on the edge of West Virginia. They had a house. They had food on the table. My cousins had pools, big televisions, a couple of cars in the drive. All on a worker’s paycheck or a small business. Nothing lavish. Just steady. Standing in modern Chicago or New York, you do not feel that world anymore. The core feels like a stage set for the very rich. Everyone else services it from the outside. So I asked the question out loud. Can we go back. Or is that period gone for good. Her answer was measured. We cannot rewind time. But we can recognize that the old middle class was a choice. It came from rules and programs that treated stability as a public goal. We can make new choices. Tighter rules around predatory loans. Better ways to fund college so a degree is not a lifetime chain. Zoning that lets builders put up real housing, not just luxury towers and big lots. None of this is easy. None of it fits on a bumper sticker. It is easier to bark about culture than to rework tax codes or housing law. That is why very little changes. But the path is not mysterious. We have done it before. As we wrapped, she circled back to why she kept going with the book. She is not writing for one side. She wants people in both parties to see that a strong middle class is not just a feel good phrase. It is the base of a stable country. It is who buys the toaster ovens, the cars, the fridges. It is who keeps the lights on in the real economy. For me, this conversation lit up a vague anger I have carried since walking those polished streets in big cities. The feeling that something is off, that the store window that used to be for everyone is now for a tiny slice at the top. Mechele’s work gives that feeling names and numbers and a path forward. Her book is “The Middle Class New Deal: Restoring Upward Mobility in the American Dream.” It lands in January 2026. When it does, I think it will give a lot of people language for what they see and cannot quite explain. In the meantime, the lesson is simple and personal. If she can drag a book through three full rewrites, one public rejection, and a changing world, the rest of us can take one more swing at whatever hard thing is sitting on our desk. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    15 min
  7. The Innovators: This Young CEO Wants to Make Genetic Engineering as Fun as Gardening

    12/11/2025

    The Innovators: This Young CEO Wants to Make Genetic Engineering as Fun as Gardening

    Most people meet plant cell culture in the grocery store without knowing it. You see it in the perfect row of blueberries, the identical bananas, the white orchids that look the same every single year. You do not see the lab bench and the flask behind them. On The Innovators, I talked with Yoni Kalin, CEO of Plant Cell Technology, about the quiet infrastructure under all of that. His company has been working in plant tissue culture since 1993. What started as a small family business selling “pet plants” in jars has grown into a Utah based factory, a catalog of more than 500 products, and a bridge between plants, animal cells, fungi, and the people who work with them. At the core, Plant Cell Technology makes the media and tools that keep cells alive and dividing. In the plant world that means the gel or liquid that feeds tiny cuttings, the nutrients that turn one node into a full clone. In the animal world that means the formulas that keep mammalian cells healthy in dishes and flasks. You can think of them as the food and basic kit that every lab needs before any vaccine or seedling can exist. For the first thirty years they stayed in the plant lane. Last year they bought a manufacturing facility and stepped into mammalian cell culture. Now they blend media for human, animal, and insect cells as well. That move puts them inside the engine room of pharma and biotech, where the same cell lines are used for decades to test drugs and make biologic medicines. Yoni gave a simple example. CHO cells, Chinese hamster ovary cells, have been in use since the middle of the last century. The original cells came from one animal. That line has been split and expanded for more than eighty years. Those cells are a standard test bed. If you want to grow a protein drug or check how something behaves, you feed those cells and watch. That kind of work used to mean a lot of live animal testing. The more you can do in culture, the less you have to do in a whole animal. Plant cell culture is less visible but just as important. Instead of planting a seed and accepting whatever mix of traits comes back, growers take a cutting from a known plant, usually a meristem or small node, and regrow it in sterile media. The result is an exact clone of the parent. Every plant you make that way has the same genetics and the same performance. If you are a berry grower, that consistency matters. It is the reason the box of blueberries you pick up in January tastes like the one you bought in July. If you are a greenhouse operator selling fancy houseplants, it means you can produce a thousand copies of the one pink variegated plant everyone wants instead of hoping more seeds turn out the same way. In orchards, forests, and replanting projects, it means you can fill a hillside with trees that all have the traits you need for that climate. It is also the reason you can walk into a store like Trader Joe’s or Home Depot and see the same orchid color and shape every year. Orchid seeds are rough to work with. Cloning them in tissue culture lets growers keep exact copies of the best lines in circulation. Plant Cell Technology sits in that supply chain as a “picks and shovels” vendor, to borrow Yoni’s phrase. They do not sell the fruit or the orchids. They sell the media, the bioreactors, the lab gear, and the training that lets growers and researchers do the work. That education piece is important and it is where things get interesting outside the pure lab. Until a few years ago, if you wanted to learn plant tissue culture, you went to a university or a big corporate lab. You paid tuition or you got hired. Everyone else was on the outside. Around 2020, while people were learning to bake sourdough and dance on short videos, Plant Cell Technology started posting long form instructional content. They now have hundreds of free videos that cover the basics, from aseptic technique to plant physiology to step by step protocols for setting up a small lab. On top of that they run in person and online master classes that focus on practical scale, not just textbook purity. Their goal is to teach you how to produce ten million banana plants, not just how to pass a midterm. That effort has pulled in a new crowd, hobbyists and small entrepreneurs who want to clone rare plants at home. Anyone who has wandered into a trendy plant shop and seen a single cutting selling for forty or fifty dollars knows the appeal. With basic gear, a clean space, and the right media, you can take a small piece of that plant and grow hundreds of copies. That can feed a side business or just fill your home with green. The same idea applies to fungi. Mycology is booming, and tissue culture is a good way to preserve and expand mycelium strains. It is easier in some ways, since many fungal media formulas are simple, often just agar and sugar. Yoni sees that as a gateway for people who might later move into more complex plant or mammalian work. Behind the scenes, the company is pushing on automation. Tissue culture has been labor heavy for decades. A tech sits at a clean bench, cuts, transfers, seals jars, and repeats. That is slow and expensive. Plant Cell Technology’s answer is a low cost bioreactor they call the BioCoupler, paired with an automated system called BioTilt. Instead of growing plantlets on gel in jars, they suspend plant cells or tiny explants in liquid and cycle them through soaking and draining. Soak, let them breathe, soak again. That simple rhythm gives the plant material full contact with nutrients, then air, which speeds up growth. Yoni says they see multiplication rates many times higher than on static gel media. The cost drops too. Gel agents like agar and gellan gum are not cheap. A single kilogram can run close to a couple hundred dollars. A liquid system needs less of that. The BioTilt handles timing and immersion automatically. Sensors and software can watch the process, adjust schedules, and log data in a way a human tech with a clipboard cannot match. The vision is clear. Larger labs and commercial houses will bring in robotics that can cut and move plant material. Bioreactors will handle the growth phase. AI systems will watch sensors, track contamination, and refine conditions. That kind of setup already exists at the very high end. Yoni wants to drag it into the middle of the market and make it less exotic. When I asked him if this was the future of agriculture, he pushed back a bit. This is the present, he said. Seeds are not going away. Fields and barns are not going away. What he sees coming is a stack. At the bottom, a tissue culture lab where farmers keep their own genetics and do their own breeding. Above that, nursery space. Above that, growing and harvest. Vertical farming has been a buzzword for a while. Tissue culture gives it teeth. You can stack genetics in a small lab that would need vast acreage outside. You can build local food systems that rely less on long chains of seed companies and middlemen. You can give farmers some control over the varieties they plant, instead of locking them into sterile seed contracts that keep them dependent. Plant Cell Technology has moved a long way from a single “pet plant” in a jar. Under Yoni’s leadership, the company has turned into a small ecosystem, part manufacturer, part educator, part guide into a field that is usually hidden behind white coats and controlled access doors. If you are a researcher who needs media, a grower who wants to scale, or a curious person who just wants to clone a favorite houseplant instead of buying three more, their site at plantcelltechnology.com is a place to start. The tools that shape our food and forests are no longer reserved for the biggest labs. They are slowly moving into reach, one flask at a time. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    20 min
  8. Keep Going: Why One Engineer Left a Dream Job to Fix Music Recording

    12/08/2025

    Keep Going: Why One Engineer Left a Dream Job to Fix Music Recording

    I am writing this with an Audigo mic sitting next to a hulking broadcast preamp on my desk. The old rig is a nest of cables and knobs. The Audigo is a small square that looks like it fell out of the future and landed in my hand. That contrast is the whole story. On this episode of Keep Going I talked with Armen Nazarian, founder and CEO of Audigo. He is a drummer who took a long detour through engineering and Tesla before circling back to sound. His company makes a small wireless mic and app that lets musicians record real multitrack audio straight to their phones without feeling like they are engineering a studio every time they press record. If you grew up on tape decks and four tracks, the promise of the phone era was simple. Recording would get easier. Sharing would get easier. What Armen found when he came back to music was that a lot of the gear companies had not moved very far. The boxes looked nicer, the apps were shinier, but the basic problem was the same. If you were a musician and you wanted decent sound, you needed a pile of equipment and spare hours to set it up. At Tesla, his job was to sit in the middle of hardware and software and make them feel like one thing. He saw what happens when one team owns the whole stack. The car feels simple even when the system under it is anything but. That experience ruined him for lazy product work. When he picked up a drumstick again and tried to record, he could not stop thinking about the gap. We have supercomputers in our pockets and yet most people still sound like they are playing in the bottom of a well. So he did the mad thing. He walked away from a great job at one of the most famous companies on earth and started a tiny hardware company in 2020, which is about as bad as a calendar can get for that move. Chip shortages. Travel bans. Factories with shutdowns you could not predict. Parts with twelve week lead times suddenly slipping to sixty five. Most of us would have taken that as a sign from God to go back to work on electric cars. Instead, Armen and his small crew started building the first hundred units by hand. They would write code and design boards during the day, then sit and assemble devices at night. Solder, test, pack, repeat. They did not have the luxury of flying to Shenzhen and living on the factory floor. That meant they had to understand every part of their own build before they could trust anyone else with it. Hardware is hard in a very literal way. If a component changes, you cannot ship a patch. If a factory shuts down, your product line stops. Investors know this. When Armen started raising money, he was doing it at a time when everyone in venture still had the ghost of Juicero in their minds. Add to that the normal suspicion of solo founders and you have a nice little wall in front of you. His Tesla badge helped a bit. It told people he knew what a production line looked like and that he had lived through at least one intense product culture. It did not make money fall from the sky. He still had to convince people that a small box with some mics in it was worth taking seriously. Before he left Tesla he did something I respect a lot. He took a week off, told people he was going on an international trip, and stayed home. He had a short list of ideas. He gave each one a full day. He looked at cost, market, and his own stomach. Could he live with this idea for ten years. Could he wake up every day and care about it. Most people skip that part. They leave out of rage or boredom and then try to figure it out on the fly. He treated that week like a tiny private lab. No slides. No pitch deck. Just him, a notebook, and the question of where to spend the next decade of his life. Audigo is the one that would not let go. He also reframed the risk in a way I wish more people would. Around him, at Tesla, people were quitting to go to business school or grad school. They were about to drop a small house worth of money on an education and walk away from a salary for two years. He looked at that and thought, I could do the same thing and call it a startup. No salary, but no tuition either. Two years of hard learning that no case study could match. That is how you move from theory to action. You do not pretend the risk is small. You set it beside other risks you have already accepted and see it in scale. What I like most about Audigo is not some spec sheet. It is what it does to the slope between idea and first take. Most musicians are already drowning in gear. They have pedals, interfaces, cables, and mics that live in drawers and crates. Every extra step between them and the record button is a chance to give up and scroll instead. Armen built for two very different people. On one side there are signed artists who can fly to any studio they want. They use Audigo because it fits in a pocket and lets them grab song ideas, backstage runs, and live clips without hauling a rig. On the other side there are people in their seventies who have played their whole lives and never once recorded a proper track. For them, this is the first time their voice or guitar sounds like it does in the room. Those are very different use cases. The thread is the same. Less friction. Less shame over bad phone audio when you post. More chances to actually hear yourself and send that sound out. The company is not done of course. They are rolling out an Android app now and a web experience next, so people can log in from a browser, pull up projects, and share them. You can feel where this goes. A small piece of hardware and a cloud that holds your sketches, takes, and mixes, whether you are on a phone, a laptop, or in a van on tour. I asked if I should throw out my big Electro Voice setup and live on this thing alone. He laughed and gave the honest answer. Use it more. See where it fits. Tell us what breaks. The product today is tuned for music, not talk radio. Podcasting is on the horizon, not the core yet. That kind of answer is rare. Most founders will tell you their thing replaces everything you own and will also fix your marriage and your sleep. Armen is more careful. They picked a lane, musicians, and they are staying in it long enough to get the details right. So what does all this mean for you if you are stuck in a big company with an idea in your pocket. The first lesson is boring. Give your idea actual time. Not ten minutes between meetings. Take a real block of days. Work through the numbers and the story and your own limits. Some ideas are fun to talk about and horrible to live with. The second lesson is that “safety” is often just a story you tell yourself. The people you see going back to school are taking a huge financial swing. You just do not flinch because the path is familiar. Starting something of your own feels foolish, but the math is often not that different. The third is that the hardest years are the ones no one claps for. No audience sees you sitting in a room, hand building the first hundred units of anything, wondering if the next part shortage is going to kill you. That is the part of “keep going” that this show is really about. Staying with the work when the timing is bad, the market is cold, and your old job looks very warm and safe in the rearview mirror. Audigo will live or die on the same thing every creative tool lives or dies on. Does it actually help people make more work they care about. From what I have seen, it does. It turns social clips from a chore into a quick side effect of playing. It gives shy players a way to hear themselves without booking a studio. It gives pros a way to stay honest when the hotel room starts to feel like a cage. If you are holding an idea that keeps tapping you on the shoulder, take a page from Armen. Step back from the noise. Study it like an engineer. Feel it like a musician. Give it a week of real thought. Then, if it still will not leave you alone, accept that there is no perfect time, only the time you have right now, and keep going. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    14 min
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5
out of 5
7 Ratings

About

When you're going through Hell, keep going." This is a podcast about failure and how it breeds success. Every week, we will talk to amazing people who have done amazing things yet, at some point, experienced failure. By exploring their experiences, we can learn how to build, succeed, and stay humble. It is hosted by author and former New York Times journalist John Biggs. Our theme music is by Policy, AKA Mark Buchwald. (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/policy/) www.keepgoingpod.com

Information

  • Creator
    John Biggs
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    149
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © John Biggs
  • Show Website
    Keep Going