Keep Going

John Biggs

When you're going through Hell, keep going." This is a podcast about failure and how it breeds success. Every week, we will talk to amazing people who have done amazing things yet, at some point, experienced failure. By exploring their experiences, we can learn how to build, succeed, and stay humble. It is hosted by author and former New York Times journalist John Biggs. Our theme music is by Policy, AKA Mark Buchwald. (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/policy/) www.keepgoingpod.com

  1. Sep 28

    Perseverance pays

    What happens when a product takes ten years to become an overnight success? On this week’s Keep Going, I talk with Reid Robinson, founder of Robinson Exotech Corp. and creator of the X Leg, a wearable exoskeleton designed as a hands-free alternative to crutches. The idea came out of Robinson’s own recovery after a serious car crash in 2015 shattered his lower leg and ankle. Over the next two and a half years, he went through 13 surgeries while doctors tried to save his leg. Between surgeries, Robinson started wondering why there wasn’t a better way to remain mobile without putting weight on an injured leg. He sketched an idea, searched for an existing product and, when he couldn’t find one, decided to build it himself. The first X Leg was made in his garage from cut-up crutches, Home Depot aluminum, leather belts and an IKEA cutting board. It looked rough, but it allowed Robinson to cross the street and play soccer with his kids while his injured leg still couldn’t support even five pounds. That prototype turned into five years of research and development. Robinson tested five versions, worked with local patients and eventually secured patents in several countries. X Leg began selling in 2021, but Robinson continued working his IT job while running the company during evenings, weekends and lunch breaks. Until May of this year, he describes himself as effectively working three jobs: being a father, working in IT and building X Leg. This is the part of entrepreneurship that we don’t talk about enough. There is a popular idea that persistence is automatically admirable, but sometimes continuing with a company that isn’t working is simply wasting another year. I’ve talked to thousands of entrepreneurs, and after a decade of slow progress I would normally tell someone to seriously consider whether it is time to stop. Robinson’s story is different because there are signs that the underlying product works for at least some customers. People actively search it out after other mobility devices haven’t worked for them, and Robinson says customer messages about what they were able to do while using X Leg have kept him going during difficult periods. One customer told him the device allowed him to attend his daughter’s wedding in Europe. The problem is getting the product into the existing medical system. X Leg is still relatively expensive, isn’t automatically covered by insurance and needs more clinical evidence before Robinson can pursue the kind of dedicated insurance coverage that could make it easier for patients to obtain. Studies are underway or being planned in the US, Chile and Canada, and Robinson hopes those results will eventually help move X Leg toward standard care. Robinson has spent ten years trying to turn something he built for himself into something other people can use. There is still no guarantee that X Leg becomes a large company, and Robinson is very clear that the device doesn’t work for every injury. But there is an important distinction between blindly refusing to quit and continuing because customers keep giving you evidence that the thing you built solves a real problem. That’s what makes Robinson’s story interesting. Perseverance only pays when there is something worth persevering for. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    Perseverance pays
  2. Sep 21

    From a little red suitcase to a billion-dollar company

    What happens when you finally get everything you thought you wanted, and realize you want something else? Joe Spector came to America from the Soviet Union at ten years old. His family arrived with $100 each. Joe had a red suitcase. He studied his way into Berkeley, finished in three years, and landed a job at JP Morgan. It was the kind of secure, prestigious career his younger self thought meant he had made it. Then he realized he didn’t care about it. Joe left finance, moved into startups, and eventually helped build Hims, taking an idea around hair loss and sexual health and turning it into a public company. Then he left again. During COVID, a $2,000 emergency vet bill for his dog made him start asking questions about veterinary care. He took what he had learned building Hims and started Dutch, a pet telehealth company aimed at making veterinary care easier and less expensive. But one of Joe’s first lessons at Dutch was that past success does not give you a perfect playbook for the next company. He initially tried to copy the Hims model. It didn’t work. Pet care was different. So he changed the model and kept building. Joe’s story is about more than startups. It’s about refusing to confuse security with purpose. Sometimes the thing you worked years to reach turns out to be a place you need to leave. On this episode of Keep Going, Joe and I talk about immigration, Wall Street, building Hims, starting over with Dutch, getting things wrong, and why being an outsider can make taking risks a little easier. And we return to that ten-year-old boy carrying a red suitcase into a new country. What would Joe tell him today? Give yourself the freedom to look beyond what you think you need right now. There may be a much bigger life outside the path you can currently see. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    From a little red suitcase to a billion-dollar company
  3. Sep 14

    Scott Jordan built a brand and a million dollar business on a whim

    Note: The video portion of the interview failed so this is an old-fashioned audio podcast. Scott is a great guy so I wanted to share this regardless. What does success look like after 25 years in business? On this episode of Keep Going, I talk with Scott Jordan, founder of SCOTTeVEST and self-described “Chief Pocket Scientist,” about building a clothing company around a simple idea: people carrying a growing pile of technology needed somewhere to put it. Long before the iPhone, Scott was making vests for people hauling around Palm Pilots, Discmen, phones, and other gadgets. But the past 25 years haven’t been a straight line up. Scott talks about watching sales grind to a halt after September 11, betting heavily on publicity that failed to produce sales, losing millions during a bad stretch of television advertising, fighting legal battles, and facing moments when financing nearly disappeared. Through all of it, he kept returning to one basic rule: the company had to make money. Instead of chasing investors, he focused on profitability and built from there. Today, SCOTTeVEST is a multimillion-dollar company that Scott says operates with zero traditional employees. He and his wife Laura have moved much of the company’s work to contractors and outside specialists, creating a very different business from the one he started 25 years ago. We also talk about why starting a company may be harder today. Scott once built SCOTTeVEST through personal relationships, press coverage, word of mouth, and some wonderfully shameless PR. Now the company can spend around $2,500 a day on Facebook advertising just to generate roughly the same amount in immediate sales. Most important, Scott talks about giving up the idea that every founder needs to build the next billion-dollar company. After years of thinking about patents, investors, exits, and massive growth, he came to value something simpler: build a profitable company, do the work well, treat customers well, and create a life you actually want to live. As Scott puts it, sometimes success really is changing the world one pocket at a time. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    Scott Jordan built a brand and a million dollar business on a whim
  4. Sep 9

    How to build something as successful as the Apple Store

    Ron Johnson built the Apple Store, then watched the world copy it for two decades. In this episode of Keep Going, he walks through how that happened, starting with a choice he made early on: learn retail from the ground up, not from a spreadsheet. After Harvard Business School, he went to unload trucks in a Mervyn’s store, then rose through Target during its big 1990s run, where he helped push “design for all.” Ron is the author of an upcoming book, Shop Different, which is in pre-orders now. We got to talk to him before the book launch and I can’t begin to describe how cool it was to talk to someone like him for the pod. Back to his story. The Apple story turns on one conversation with Steve Jobs. Jobs thought stores could double Apple’s market share from five to ten percent. Johnson told him that was the wrong target. He pointed to the bigger opening, the half of Americans who had never bought a computer, and the fear of technology that kept them out of the category. That changed the entire store strategy. Put the stores where people already shop, in malls, make them big enough to feel like a major brand, and use the space for experiences, not shelves. The front half introduces people to technology, the back half deepens the relationship with support and learning. No commissions, because you cannot teach someone while you are trying to pick their pocket. Johnson also shares what it looked like when Apple was close to the bottom. In 2002, he says the company hit a point where it was trading at cash value, and Jobs was carrying the weight of a risky transition to Intel, OS X, new apps, and the early store rollout, all at once. He tells a scene from the morning the Soho store opened, when Jobs saw a small line and thought nobody cared anymore. A few hours later the store filled, and Jobs stayed for seven hours, talking to customers and watching the place work. Johnson describes it as a turning point, a moment where the “green shoots” mattered more than the quarterly numbers, and where Jobs doubled down on the stores as a core product, not just a sales channel. Then it gets harder. Johnson does not dodge JCPenney. He calls it his failure. He explains the vision, a “mall within a mall” with smaller branded shops, a town square feel, and simpler pricing. The mistake, he says, was speed and process. They changed pricing almost immediately, without time to communicate it or bring employees into the build. He contrasts that with Apple, where he could hire the team, shape the culture, and let the model mature. At JCPenney, he never had the internal support needed to make the change stick, and eighteen months later it was over. This episode is a clean reminder that “great strategy” is not enough. Execution is people, timing, and trust. You can be right about the idea and still lose if the team is not with you and the change moves faster than the organisation can absorb. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

  5. Sep 8

    How psychedelics changed my life

    This one is personal. I started working on Shroomies in 2018, after my dad died and I entered one of the darkest periods of my life. I was depressed. I was taking SSRIs. I was very close to self-harm. I didn’t feel like myself, and I didn’t know how to get back. Then a friend invited me to a psychedelic mushroom session. I thought it sounded ridiculous. I’m not a Burning Man guy. I’m not a hippie. I don’t like the Grateful Dead. I definitely don’t like Phish. But I went. What happened over the next six hours started a much longer process of figuring out what was happening inside my own head. I eventually had a few more experiences. Things changed. Some changes were good. Some were difficult. But I came out of that period knowing myself better. Most importantly, I’m still here. Book Party Fun! Are you in New York? I’ll be holding a book party in Brooklyn on September 24 and I need a rough headcount so please RSVP here! That experience also made me curious. What were these substances actually doing? Why were people using them for depression, PTSD, end of life care, relationships, and creativity? Why had something dismissed for decades suddenly become the subject of serious medical research? So I started reporting. The result is Shroomies, a book about psychedelic mushrooms, the people using them, the people studying them, and the strange cultural shift happening around them. It isn’t an argument that everyone should take mushrooms. Psychedelics carry real risks, and I would never recommend experimenting with them alone. It’s a book about what happens when people who have run out of answers start looking somewhere else. That feels very close to what Keep Going has always been about. Failure doesn’t always arrive as a failed company or a lost job. Sometimes it is much more subtle. Sometimes is that the status quo stops working for you, that your biggest enemy becomes yourself. Then you have to figure out what comes next. You don’t have to try mushrooms but please try my book. Shroomies is out today, September 8, in hardcover and on Kindle. If you’re a journalist or simply review books anywhere, I’m happy to send you a copy. Just drop me a line at john@biggs.cc. I hope you read it. As always, thank you for listening and supporting me. It means the world. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    How psychedelics changed my life
  6. Aug 31

    A top-tier product manager tells us how to survive the AIpocalypse

    Melissa Mohr spent her early career at Amazon and built some amazing products before making the move to SVP of product at Vivint. Now she’s here to tell us how to maneuver office politics and survive the onslaught of AI Mohr studied animal science in college. She expected to spend her career working with horses. Instead, she ended up helping solve some of the strange problems that come with trying to change how millions of people shop and live. On Keep Going, Mohr talked about what she learned along the way. Much of it came down to a simple idea: careers are built as much from the things that go wrong as the things that go right. You Don’t Need to Know Everything Before You Start When Mohr joined Amazon’s Alexa smart home team, she had no professional background in smart home technology. In fact, she didn’t have any smart home devices in her own house. “I knew nothing about smart home,” she said. She joined anyway. She would spend roughly nine years working on Alexa, moving from the early days of asking Alexa to turn lights on and off toward much deeper home automation and personalization. Her career is a useful answer to one of the questions that stops people from making a move: Am I qualified enough? Sometimes you aren’t. The better question may be whether you can become qualified. Mohr credits part of her success at Amazon to the company’s willingness to put smart people into unfamiliar problems and allow them to figure things out. But that freedom came with responsibility. She had to understand the business, understand its numbers, understand the customer, and learn enough about each new field to make good decisions. The lesson isn’t to fake expertise. It’s almost the opposite. Know what you don’t know, then start learning. Progress Can Be Very Small Amazon Grocery presented a completely different problem. Selling books and toys online was one thing. Selling groceries meant dealing with expiration dates, shipping costs, inventory rotation, customer habits, and products that could become worthless before Amazon managed to sell them. There wasn’t one great idea that fixed everything. Mohr’s team tested somewhere around 20 or 30 user experience designs. Some worked. Plenty didn’t. Instead of waiting for a single major breakthrough, the team learned to pay attention to small signs that something was getting better. “Small progress” became something worth building on. That’s a useful way to think about almost any difficult project. We tend to want a clear win because wins are easy to understand. You launch the company. You get the job. You sell the product. You hit the number. Most meaningful work doesn’t happen that cleanly. You try something. It works a little better. You try again. Then you keep going. AI Is Changing Jobs, But That Doesn’t Mean You Stop Learning Mohr also has a useful view of the current fear around AI and employment. She doesn’t think AI simply replaces an entire employee in most cases. Instead, she sees it removing parts of jobs. Maybe 30 percent of someone’s work consists of tasks that aren’t particularly strategic. AI can take some of that work. That lets employees move faster, but it can also allow a company to accomplish the same amount of work with fewer people. That part shouldn’t be ignored. Mohr’s response, however, isn’t to resist the technology. It’s to learn how to use it. Her product teams can now turn an idea into an early app prototype in hours. She looks for job candidates who have experimented with AI and figured out how it can improve their work. The danger of refusing to experiment with AI, in her view, goes beyond AI itself. If someone refuses to try a new tool because they don’t like it or don’t understand it, what happens when the next major change arrives? Technology keeps moving. Careers have to move with it. You don’t have to believe every claim about AI. You don’t have to use it for everything. But you probably do have to understand it. Your Passion Might Not Be What You Think Mohr’s undergraduate degree was in animal science. She expected to become an equine vet. She also worked in thoroughbred racing after college. Then she learned something surprising. Turning something she loved personally into her profession wasn’t necessarily what made work satisfying. What actually interested her professionally was solving hard problems. “I think it’s finding something that you’re passionate about, but realizing that passion might not be a personal interest,” she said. That’s an important distinction. We’re often told to find the thing we love and make it our job. But loving horses doesn’t mean you have to work with horses. Loving hiking doesn’t mean you need to work for an outdoor company. You may love solving logistical problems. Or building products. Or fixing organizations. Or working with customers. Sometimes the subject changes while the kind of work that keeps you interested remains remarkably consistent. Ask Yourself Where You Failed One of Mohr’s habits is particularly relevant to Keep Going. Every year, she conducts a serious review of her own performance. What did she do well? Where did she fail her team? Where did she fail herself? Where did she fall short of what leadership expected from her? Then she asks why. Mohr has brought the same practice into her product teams. Even after a highly successful product launch, she wants a postmortem. Something could have been done better. This kind of review only works if failure isn’t treated as a verdict. A mistake gives you information. Use it. The Question Mark Email During her Amazon years, Mohr occasionally received one of Jeff Bezos’s infamous question mark emails. A customer complaint or some other problem would reach Bezos. He would forward it down the company with a single character: ? That was enough. The email would work its way through management. Suddenly everyone knew there was a problem. Mohr remembers them as terrifying. She also remembers something else. Bezos was usually right. “There was always a bigger gap underneath the question mark email,” she said. The frustrating part was realizing that Bezos had spotted something her team had missed.Those weren’t the comfortable moments of her career. Neither were the meetings where she got torn apart. Or the managers she disliked. Or the mistakes she made. Yet years later, those are often the experiences she values. “The worst meetings of my life, they’re very memorable to me,” Mohr said. When everything goes well, she argues, you often don’t improve very much. She sees the same thing when competing with horses. Winning feels good. Falling off or getting eliminated teaches her more. That doesn’t mean failure magically becomes pleasant. Mohr is careful about that too. Sometimes it takes a year or two before you can look back at a terrible experience and understand what it gave you. You don’t need to enjoy the bad meeting. You don’t need to pretend getting fired, losing, failing, or making a terrible decision feels good. Give yourself some time. Then ask what it taught you. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    A top-tier product manager tells us how to survive the AIpocalypse
  7. Aug 4

    Inside iWallet, the payment platform for contractors

    Jim Kolchin started iWallet because he knew the problem from the inside. Before he was building fintech software for contractors, he was a contractor himself. He started his first business in 2003, spent 15 years working in the field, and grew that business from nothing into an eight-figure company. That is where he saw the pain around checks, credit cards, receivables, and all the little financial tasks that slow down home service businesses. Kolchin describes iWallet as a new way for contractors to take payments, saving time and money on check processing and credit card processing. But the company is now growing into something bigger: a financial operating system for the home service industry, serving contractors, distributors, and manufacturers. That matters because home service businesses are still full of old payment workflows. Contractors mail checks, wait on lockboxes, process card payments, chase invoices, and deal with back-office systems that were not really built for the way field service companies operate. iWallet is trying to pull those pieces together in a way that fits how contractors actually work. Kolchin’s path into software was not straight. He came to the United States in 2002 and started with odd jobs: selling ice cream, washing cars, sweeping the boardwalk in New Jersey, and saving enough money to move to California. A year later, he started his first business. He liked contracting, but he eventually saw the limits. A contractor can build a good business, but labour does not scale like software. He had already learned that lesson through another startup, a hardware company that built an automated knife-sharpening machine and was later sold. Before that, he had tried a mailbox sensor, manufactured 100 units, launched a Kickstarter, and discovered that having a clever invention was not the same thing as having a market.That failure taught him one of the oldest startup lessons, but one that still has to be learned the hard way: make something people want. Kolchin said he originally thought like an inventor. If you had a patent, he believed, people would come looking for it. That was not how it worked. Over time, he learned that the customer matters more than the idea, and that the only way to know what people want is to talk to them directly. Surveys and gated forms are not enough. Real conversations are what count. For iWallet, that has meant trade shows. Kolchin said trade shows are one of the best places to meet contractors, talk to customers, test messaging, and understand whether the product is solving a real problem. But it only works if you work the room. You cannot sit behind the table and wait. You have to get up, talk to people, explain what you do, and push through the awkward first half hour until the conversations start to flow. That kind of direct selling is also how you find product-market fit. Kolchin pointed to the idea of the “unaffiliated dollar,” a dollar paid by someone who did not know you six months earlier and bought the product because you convinced them it solved a problem. For him, that was the real test. One unaffiliated customer can become another, and that is where momentum begins. After years of trying different ideas, Kolchin said iWallet found product-market fit about three years ago, became profitable, and began growing quickly. The company is now expanding beyond payments. Kolchin said iWallet is working on Repair AI, which he described as something like Harvey for legal or OpenEvidence for medical, but built for the home service space. The company has filed several patents around the idea and sees it as a major opportunity. At the same time, iWallet is building out more traditional financial products. Accounts receivable is core today, but the roadmap includes accounts payable, checking accounts, credit, and extended warranties. The goal is to give contractors a financial layer that understands their business instead of forcing them to stitch together tools built for everyone else. There is a simple founder lesson in Kolchin’s story. The first idea may not work. The second may work better. The third may reveal the market. What matters is learning fast enough to stop building only what interests you and start building what people will pay for. That is what iWallet is doing now. It began with contractor payments. It is becoming a larger financial system for an industry that still runs on too much paper, too many checks, and too many disconnected workflows. Kolchin built iWallet because he lived the problem. That is often where the best companies start. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    Inside iWallet, the payment platform for contractors

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
7 Ratings

About

When you're going through Hell, keep going." This is a podcast about failure and how it breeds success. Every week, we will talk to amazing people who have done amazing things yet, at some point, experienced failure. By exploring their experiences, we can learn how to build, succeed, and stay humble. It is hosted by author and former New York Times journalist John Biggs. Our theme music is by Policy, AKA Mark Buchwald. (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/policy/) www.keepgoingpod.com