The Fifth Court

Peter Leonard BL Mark Tottenham BL

Ireland's legal podcast, presented by the Law Society Award Winning team of Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. E152 The Fifth Court - Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia founder, on trust, AI and why the internet still needs rules

    6h ago

    E152 The Fifth Court - Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia founder, on trust, AI and why the internet still needs rules

    Episode 152 of The Fifth Court features a very special guest: Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia Interviewed by Mark Tottenham BL at Dalkey Book Festival. This is not just a tech-founder interview. It is a fascinating conversation about law, trust, neutrality, rules, evidence, platform responsibility, AI hallucinations, volunteer communities, public knowledge and why Wikipedia has survived while much of the internet has become angrier, noisier and less trusted. Jimmy explains why Wikipedia’s neutral point of view matters, why “assume good faith” is more practical than naïve, how Wikipedia deals with vandalism, why AI can invent very convincing false sources, why WikiNews did not work, and why Wikipedia avoided the advertising model that turned so much of the web into clickbait. Jimmy's cultural recommendation, a book by the late author Ray Bradbury, 'Something Wicked this Way Comes'. Before the interview, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL discuss three recent cases from the Decisis Casebook, sponsored by Charltons Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners: the Supreme Court on “no foal, no fee” and conditional fee arrangements; a drink-driving blood-specimen chain-of-custody case; and a murder conviction quashed because of an unbalanced judicial charge to the jury. 00:00 – Intro: Episode 152 01:47 – Decisis Casebook sponsor: Charltons Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners 02:00 – “No foal, no fee” and conditional fee arrangements 03:29 – Drink-driving conviction and blood-specimen chain of custody 04:34 – Murder conviction quashed over judicial charge to jury 06:03 – Jimmy Wales interview begins 06:43 – Why Wikipedia was hard to compete with 07:58 – Neutral point of view and controversial topics 09:49 – How Wikipedia’s rules developed 11:40 – Volunteer communities and optimism about people 15:12 – Why a wiki works for an encyclopedia, but maybe not for poetry 17:03 – Why Wikipedia is vandal-proof 18:30 – Jimmy Wales: “Queen Elizabeth II, not Henry VIII” 20:07 – Arbitration committees and Wikipedia governance 21:24 – Wikipedia in 150–300 languages 23:31 – What workplaces can learn from volunteers 29:06 – Audrey Tang, Taiwan and digital consensus 32:10 – “Assume good faith” 34:25 – ChatGPT, fake ISBNs and made-up legal cases 37:17 – Law enforcement and good faith 39:03 – Why WikiNews did not really work 44:12 – Constitutional change and institutional deadlock 49:37 – Platforms, publishers and free speech 50:25 – Why Wikipedia did not become an ad machine 53:04 – Jimmy Wales’ book recommendation: Something Wicked This Way Comes 54:33 – Outro Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    55 min
  2. E151 The Fifth Court - Peter Charleton Part 2: what judges really worry about

    Jun 23

    E151 The Fifth Court - Peter Charleton Part 2: what judges really worry about

    In Part 2 of our extended interview with retired Supreme Court judge Mr Justice Peter Charleton, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL continue a remarkable conversation about life at the Bar, life on the Bench, and life after the Supreme Court. Peter Charleton speaks about the reality of appearing in high-profile criminal cases, the discipline of addressing juries, why a good advocate must be able to hold attention, and why, in court, “your job is basically to stay on the horse”. He discusses the emotional weight of criminal work, the dangers of lawyers mistaking themselves for victims, the Morris Tribunal, the call to the High Court, the pressure of judgment writing, and the move from sitting alone in the High Court to deciding cases with colleagues in the Supreme Court. There is also a fascinating discussion on the length of modern judgments, why digital searches are different from physical searches, how Supreme Court judges deal with disagreement, and whether advocacy still matters in an age of written submissions. And, in a lovely final turn, Peter Charleton reflects on retirement, family, music, film, War and Peace, Clint Eastwood, and why music, in his view, is a higher form of reasoning than law. Before the interview, Mark and Peter discuss three recent cases from the Decisis.ie casebook, with thanks to the sponsor of the Decisis casebook discussion, Charltons Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners of George’s Street, Dún Laoghaire, who specialise in family law, civil litigation, property, wills and probate. LSRA v O’Brien A solicitor was prohibited from practising in his own right for 10 years following serious misconduct and repeated non-compliance with undertakings. The High Court stressed that its role in reviewing LSRA determinations is not a rubber-stamping exercise. LSRA v Salabi An overseas lawyer seeking to practise in Ireland could not rely on Belgian professional indemnity cover. The court held that the foreign cover did not meet the Irish regulatory requirements. Foreign Births Register citizenship challenge A challenge to the requirement that foreign-born children be registered on the Foreign Births Register before acquiring Irish citizenship was rejected, with the court finding no particular injustice in the requirement. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Part 2 preview 00:48 Decisis casebook discussion, sponsored by Charltons Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners 03:49 Peter Charleton interview resumes 04:31 High-profile criminal cases and staying on the horse 05:15 Addressing juries and holding attention 07:13 Worrying about cases and professional regret 08:08 Criminal work, vicarious trauma and perspective 09:03 The Morris Tribunal and Donegal 10:37 The call to the High Court 11:43 Why judging was not easier than being a barrister 13:48 How to write a judgment 15:46 Are modern judgments too long? 18:07 Digital searches and privacy 19:52 Moving from the High Court to the Supreme Court 20:22 Keeping an open mind on appeal 21:30 Overturning colleagues and why it is not personal 23:45 Irish courts, US courts and the politics of judging 26:26 Is great advocacy dead? 28:38 Retirement from the Supreme Court 30:41 Life after the Bench 31:22 Music, law and philosophy 32:47 Film and book recommendations 34:45 Closing thanks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    36 min
  3. E150 The Fifth Court - Mr Justice Peter Charleton: law, crime, music and the nature of evil

    Jun 18

    E150 The Fifth Court - Mr Justice Peter Charleton: law, crime, music and the nature of evil

    The Fifth Court marks Episode 150 with Part 1 of a wide-ranging conversation with recently retired Supreme Court judge, Peter Charleton. To mark Episode 150 of The Fifth Court, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL are joined by Mr Justice Peter Charleton, recently retired from the Supreme Court. In Part 1 of this extended interview, he reflects on republicanism and nationalism, growing up near Seán Lemass and Theodore Kingsmill Moore, music, Trinity, the King’s Inns, devilling with Peter Sutherland, early years at the Bar, criminal law, defending accused persons, and the deeper questions of crime, morality and human nature. It is a thoughtful, personal and sometimes unexpectedly funny conversation with one of Ireland’s best-known jurists. Before the interview, Mark and Peter discuss three recent cases from the Decisis.ie casebook. The Decisis.ie case-law section is sponsored by Charlton Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners of Dún Laoghaire. Case 1: The High Court quashed a District Court judge’s refusal to convict in speed-limit cases, holding that judges must apply the law rather than substitute their own views on whether limits are fair. Case 2: In DPP v O’Hara, the Court of Appeal upheld a murder and burglary conviction, rejecting challenges to DNA and search-warrant evidence. Case 3: In a Hague Convention child-abduction case, the court refused to return a child to New Zealand because of concerns about the mother’s depression and risk of relapse. This is Part 1 of a two-part interview. Part II will be posted next week. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    39 min
  4. Jun 9

    E149 The Fifth Court - Bridget Hourican on Frank Callanan’s Joycean masterpiece

    Bloomsday Special: The secret political life of James Joyce — and Frank Callanan’s final masterpiece Was James Joyce really apolitical? For decades, many scholars claimed Ireland's greatest writer stood apart from politics. Frank Callanan disagreed. Before his untimely death, the renowned barrister, historian and Parnell scholar spent 25 years researching what became his final work: James Joyce: A Political Life. In this special Bloomsday episode of The Fifth Court, Bridget Hourican joins Peter Leonard and Mark Tottenham to discuss Frank's extraordinary final book, his lifelong fascination with Joyce, Parnell, Irish nationalism, exile, censorship and the political forces that shaped modern Ireland. The conversation also becomes a moving tribute to Frank himself — one of the most beloved and intellectually gifted members of the Law Library. Among the topics discussed: Why Frank spent 25 years researching JoyceThe political meaning hidden inside Ulysses and DublinersJoyce's obsession with ParnellWhy Dublin publishers burned copies of DublinersJoyce, censorship and Irish respectabilityWhy Joyce left Ireland and never truly returnedFrank Callanan's remarkable legal and academic careerThe challenge of completing a 900-page masterpiece after his death For anyone interested in law, literature, Irish history or Bloomsday, this is a fascinating conversation. Book recommendation: James Joyce: A Political Life by Frank Callanan Decisis casebook section sponsored by Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners. 1. The runaway truck case Duggan v Logan (Mr Justice Oisín Quinn) A driver was seriously injured when a truck rolled out of a filling station and into traffic with nobody behind the wheel after the driver failed to apply the handbrake. Why it matters: The High Court awarded damages of approximately €128,000 and provides a reminder that leaving a vehicle unsecured can create liability even when the driver is physically absent from the vehicle. 2. Turkish worker wins immigration rights challenge Ozek v Minister for Justice (Mr Justice Simons) A Turkish migrant worker successfully challenged the Minister's refusal to properly backdate an immigration permission. Why it matters: The Court found that EU-derived worker protections had not been correctly applied, reinforcing the importance of protecting migrant workers' rights under European law. 3. Mother and Baby Institutions Redress Scheme Kiernan (otherwise John Duncan Morris) v Minister for Children (Mr Justice Owens) A claimant challenged a decision that certain institutions were not covered by the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme. Why it matters: The Court held that the legislation should be interpreted more broadly and that the applicant was entitled to seek redress under the scheme. The decision may affect how eligibility is assessed in future claims.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    38 min
  5. E147 The Fifth Court - John O’Donnell SC on Law, Literature and Life

    May 8

    E147 The Fifth Court - John O’Donnell SC on Law, Literature and Life

    ON this episode of The Fifth Court, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL are joined by John O’Donnell SC — one of the Bar’s leading advocates… and one of Ireland’s most quietly brilliant writers. This is a conversation that moves from the Four Courts to the writing desk — and back again. We step into a different courtroom entirely — the imagination. John O’Donnell SC discusses: Winning the Francis McManus Short Story AwardWriting Mr. Who — a story inspired by a real criminal caseThe discipline of writing daily at 6:30amWhy short stories thrive in IrelandAnd his upcoming novel Second SkinThis is law, but not as you expect it. We begin, as always, with the Decisis casebook section, sponsored by Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners, George’s Street, Dún Laoghaire, covering: 1. Teaching Council v CD A school principal steals up to €100,000… and is NOT struck off. Why? Gambling addiction, remorse, and the court’s willingness to give a second chance. 2. Pepper Finance Corporation v Ward A default judgment overturned… after SEVEN years. Solicitor misconduct, delay, and “special circumstances” collide. 3. O’Callaghan v O’Callaghan A family hotel empire tears itself apart. Misrepresentation vs arbitration — and why the court said: “Off you go… to arbitration.” Chapters00:00 – Intro 02:00 – Decisis Sponsor: Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners 02:15 – Case 1: Teacher theft & second chances 05:30 – Case 2: Default judgment after 7 years 08:00 – Case 3: Family hotel war & arbitration 10:30 – John O’Donnell SC interview begins 18:00 – From barrister to poet 25:00 – Writing discipline: 6:30am starts 32:00 – Mr. Who: crime, imagination, and narrative 40:00 – Law as inspiration for fiction 50:00 – Poetry reading 57:00 – Fastnet Film Festival & courtroom dramas 01:02:00 – Close Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    45 min
  6. E146 The Fifth Court - Your Reputation on Trial — And Why the Rules Are Changing - John Kerr

    Apr 17

    E146 The Fifth Court - Your Reputation on Trial — And Why the Rules Are Changing - John Kerr

    Your Reputation on Trial — And Why the Rules Are Changing This is not just another legal interview. This is a story about growing up under armed protection, about a father who became the last Law Lord in the UK, and about a legal system that is about to change in a very big way. John Kerr — barrister, defamation specialist, and colleague — joins us to talk about: What it was like living through the Troubles with security at the front gateWhy his father became the “Great Dissenter” in the UK Supreme CourtThe truth about defamation cases — and why juries may be scrappedAnd what happens when your reputation becomes your livelihood Plus: Three fascinating Decisis cases including dead-person defamation, missing expert witnesses, and multi-million euro stud fees. Decisis is brought to you thanks to Charltons Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners. defamation law Ireland, jury trials Ireland, Brian Kerr judge, UK Supreme Court law lords, Irish barristers, Paul Tweed defamation, legal podcast Ireland, Fifth Court podcast, Irish courts cases, Decisis cases Ireland, John Kerr barrister, freedom of expression law TIMELINE 00:00 Intro + Decisis sponsor mention 02:00 Defamation after death — can you sue? 05:15 Lost expert witness — trial goes ahead anyway 08:30 Coolmore stud fees — big money, no excuses 12:00 John Kerr — defamation specialist 14:00 Growing up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles 17:00 Armed guards, relocation, and real risk 20:00 The career of Lord Kerr — last Law Lord 25:00 The “Great Dissenter” — why minority judgments matter 30:00 From solicitor to barrister — taking the leap 34:00 Defamation reform — are juries finished? 40:00 Big awards, big problems — reality vs headlines 47:00 International defamation and celebrity cases 50:00 Book & film recommendations Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    39 min
  7. Apr 8

    E145 The Fifth Court - Verona Murphy - From leaving home at 14 to Ceann Comhairle, Dáil Éireann

    The "referee" of Irish politics: Verona Murphy on power, pressure and running the Dáil What actually happens when you’re handed the whistle in Irish politics? On Episode 145 of The Fifth Court, hosts Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL travel to Leinster House to sit down with Verona Murphy, Ceann Comhairle — the referee of the Dáil. This is not a standard political career story. From leaving home at 14, school at 15…to a period of homelessness… to driving trucks across Europe with ABBA blasting…to running a haulage company…to qualifying in law… to becoming Ceann Comhairle. Inside this conversation: What the Ceann Comhairle actually does (it’s far, far bigger than you think)Why the job is effectively 24/7How legislation really moves (or doesn’t) inside the DáilThe reality of managing conflict, egos and political theatreWhy many TDs don’t understand the system they operate inThe truth about independence in Irish politics Plus: Brexit through the eyes of the haulage industryWhy respect (or lack of it) is crippling key sectorsAnd the surprising power behind “standing orders” Decisis Case Round-Up (with thanks to our sponsor) This episode includes analysis of three recent decisions, brought to you by Charltons Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners, Georges Street, Dún Laoghaire — specialists in family law, civil litigation, property, wills and probate. Cases discussed: 1. Student A v Trinity College Dublin Can you stay anonymous if accused of academic misconduct? The High Court says: almost never. 2. Hegarty & Others v Revenue Commissioners Revenue loses — because “tax avoidance” isn’t enough if there’s a real commercial reason. 3. G v G (Child Abduction Case) A 22-month-old taken from the US to Ireland — and the court orders the child back. Subscribe, follow, and share. Because law — like politics — only makes sense when someone explains it properly. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    51 min

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Ireland's legal podcast, presented by the Law Society Award Winning team of Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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