Speaking Out of Place

David Palumbo-Liu

Public activism on human rights, environmental and indigenous justice, and educational liberation, with an emphasis on politics, culture, and art.  Website:  https://speakingoutofplace.com/

  1. Land Grab Universities: The Fight Against Non-memory and for Indigenous Futures—a Conversation with Tristan Ahtone, Andrew Herscher, and Robert Warrior

    3d ago

    Land Grab Universities: The Fight Against Non-memory and for Indigenous Futures—a Conversation with Tristan Ahtone, Andrew Herscher, and Robert Warrior

    On today’s show we take a deep look into universities, and education more broadly with Tristan Ahtone, Andrew Herscher, and Robert Warrior. We focus on a  critique of land grant universities, which were built on land granted by the federal government. What we learn is that lands were stolen from Indigenous peoples through violence-based treaties and seizures. These 57 universities have used wealth derived from those initial acts of theft to buy more property, expand holdings, and enrich themselves. In contrast, we see the continued harm these universities do to Native peoples. This harm comes what Herscher calls “non-memory,” which creates knowledge that distorts and omits historical truths and impedes upon Indigenous futures. We talk about the deep damage non-memory does to education for all, and the ways people have fought back to retrieve, restore, and grow knowledge through scholar-journalist activism like the Land Grab University project. Tristan Ahtone (Kiowa) is Editor at Large at Grist and one of the foremost journalists covering Indigenous affairs in America. He previously served as Editor in Chief of the Texas Observer and Indigenous Affairs editor at High Country News. His investigations have been honored with a George Polk Award, an IRE Award, a Sigma Award, a National Magazine Award nomination, and investigative awards from the Gannett Foundation. A multiple Richard LaCourse Award winner, Ahtone was also named Journalist of the Year by Covering Climate Now in 2024. A past president of the Indigenous Journalists Association and a 2017 Nieman Fellow, he is a co-founder of the Indigenous News Alliance. Andrew Herscher’s work endeavors to bring the study of architecture and cities to bear on struggles for justice, democracy, and self-determination across a range of global sites. He is the co-founder of a series of militant research collectives, including Detroit Resists, Settler Colonial City Project, and the We the People of Detroit Community Research Collective. His scholarly work include Violence Taking Place: The Architecture of the Kosovo Conflict (Stanford University Press, 2010); The Unreal Estate Guide to Detroit (University of Michigan Press, 2012); Displacements: Architecture and Refugee (Sternberg Press, 2017); The Global Shelter Imaginary: IKEA Humanitarianism and Rightless Relief (co-authored with Daniel Bertrand Monk, University of Minnesota Press, 2022); and Under the Campus, the Land: Anishinaabe Futuring, Colonial Non-Memory, and the Origin of the University of Michigan (University of Michigan Press, 2025). He is teaches at the University of Michigan in architecture, Native American and Indigenous studies, and the history of art.  Robert Warrior is Hall Distinguished Professor of American Literature and Culture at the University of Kansas and a member/citizen of the Osage Nation. He is the author of Tribal Secrets: Recovering American Indian Intellectual Traditions (University of Minnesota Press, 1995) and The People and the Word: Reading Native Nonfiction (University of Minnesota Press, 2006), and coauthor of Like a Hurricane: The Indian Movement from Alcatraz to Wounded Knee (New Press, 1996), American Indian Literary Nationalism (University of New Mexico Press, 2008), and Reasoning Together: The Native Critics Collective (University of Oklahoma Press, 2009). He is past president of the American Studies Association and was the founding president of the Native American and Indigenous Studies Association (2009-10). He was the founding co-editor of Native American and Indigenous Studies (NAISA’s journal) and edits the Indigenous Americas series at the University of Minnesota Press). Before moving to the University of Kansas, he taught at Stanford, the University of Oklahoma, and the University of Illinois. In 2018, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.

    52 min
  2. Muskism—its roots, nature, and how to fight it: A Conversation with Quinn Slobodian and Ben Tarnoff

    May 17

    Muskism—its roots, nature, and how to fight it: A Conversation with Quinn Slobodian and Ben Tarnoff

    Today I am delighted to talk with Quinn Slobodian and Ben Tarnoff about their new book, Muskism: A Guide for the Perplexed. This is much more than a biography or popular account of Elon Musk, it is a radical analysis of a deeply disturbing, computational way of seeing the world.  We see a mind that is profoundly troubled by any contagion spreading into seemingly closed systems—it can take the form of racial others, transpeople, “woke” populations, or most generally and dismissively, “Non-Playing-Characters.” We talk about the dangers this mindset and its manifestations have on democracy and the public sphere, and argue that what we should do is to “embrace the woke-mind virus as a counter-revolutionary act.” Quinn Slobodian is professor of international history at the Frederick S. Pardee School of Global Studies at Boston University. His books, which have been translated into ten languages, include Globalists: The End of Empire and the Birth of Neoliberalism, Crack-Up Capitalism: Market Radicals and the Dream of a World without Democracy, and Hayek’s Bastards: Race, Gold, IQ and the Capitalism of the Far Right . His most recent book, co-authored with Ban Tarnoff, Muskism: A Guide for the Perplexed.  Slobodian is a Guggenheim Fellow for 2025-6; he has been an associate fellow at Chatham House and held residential fellowships at Harvard University and Free University Berlin. Project Syndicate put him on a list of 30 Forward Thinkers and Prospect UK named him one of the World’s 25 Top Thinkers. Ben Tarnoff is a writer from Massachusetts. He is the co-author, with Quinn Slobodian, of Muskism: A Guide for the Perplexed.

    1h 1m
  3. Making Community Change and Sharpening Activist Skills—A Conversation with Youth United for Community Action

    May 1

    Making Community Change and Sharpening Activist Skills—A Conversation with Youth United for Community Action

    Today I am excited to talk with three members of Youth United for Community Action, an organization based in East Palo Alto that has been fighting for community empowerment since 1994, when a small group of young people of color active in their communities came together to form YUCA—“a grassroots community organization created, led, and run by young people of color, the majority from low-income communities. It “provides a safe space for young people to empower[themselves] and work on environmental and social justice issues to establish positive systemic change through grassroots community organizing.” We talk about how YUCA chooses its causes, the way it interacts with the community, and the most pressing issues it is addressing today. We hear inspiring stories about how YUCA workers interact with people in the community in big and small ways, and how this work is giving them the political education needed for meaningful change.  Larissa Perez is a junior in high school. She has lived in East Palo Alto for the majority of her life and is passionate about being able to help others and give back to her community. Through her involvement with YUCA, she has deepened her understanding of East Palo Alto’s rich history while also developing the skills to become a strong leader and advocate for justice.  Estefani Ruiz first joined Youth United for Community Action in August of 2022 and has climbed the pipeline ever since. She first started off as a core member and now finds herself in a Youth Organizer role. Estefani is extremely passionate about giving back to her community and learning new things. This is where her interest in housing and social justice issues first started. She has participated in outreach, community events, and city meetings. She hopes to continue this work as she moves into the next stage of her life by making connections of her prior knowledge to the new area she will find herself in this upcoming academic year. Filiberto “Fili” Zaragoza is one of the campaign organizers and Co-program director at Youth United for Community Action (YUCA) in East Palo Alto, where he grew up. Since joining YUCA in 2019 as a sophomore in high school and moving into a staff position in 2023, he’s developed organizing skills while fighting for his community. Fili draws his passion for advocacy from witnessing social injustices in East Palo Alto and across the Bay Area. He plans to continue his education while building his career in community organizing.

    42 min
  4. The Continuing Struggle to #StopCopCity—Ordinary People Transformed into Activists of Conscience

    Apr 27

    The Continuing Struggle to #StopCopCity—Ordinary People Transformed into Activists of Conscience

    In 2021, the City of Atlanta announced that it was entering into a partnership with the Atlanta Police Foundation to destroy the South River Forest and build what became known as “Cop City,” a large facility for the training of police officers. This met with massive public outcry from those outraged by the destruction of the environment and an important historical site (a former prison farm), and the purpose to which the land was to be put—to train police in urban warfare techniques and by extension feed the prison-industrial complex. Activists also pointed to its connection to the Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange, which partners with Israel. Protesters occupied the land and carried out a number of direct actions.  In August 2023 the Georgia Attorney General incited 61 people on a sweeping RICO charge, as well as charges of domestic terrorism, and others. In January, a judge threw out all the RICO charges; the state is appealing. Today I am honored to speak with two #StopCopCity activists—both participated in the #Imaginary Crimes Tour, which visited more than 40 cities in the US to publicize the case; one is named in the indictment.  We hear their stories of how and why they became involved in #StopCopCity, what transpired during those events and during the trial, and how it has deepened their commitment to activism. We hear especially about how ordinary people find themselves transformed into activists of conscience, and how they are working in solidarity with many other groups. To keep up to date, please check out this Linktree and join the Signal chat below: https://linktr.ee/sccimaginarycrimestour https://signal.group/#CjQKIFw7xqV1kNadZE8NplWCOD7cpYfB_RtiQ0IScBxjOVgPEhDxoZaYLrElXwyk2kqyynmP

    44 min
  5. Anna Badkhen: To See Beyond—Finding the Language of Survival and Hope

    Apr 25

    Anna Badkhen: To See Beyond—Finding the Language of Survival and Hope

    Today I have the immense pleasure of speaking with author Anna Badkhen about her new collection of essays, To See Beyond.  Badkhen talks about how her experiences as a veteran war correspondent exposed her to War’s multiple forms of violence, destruction, and carnage, and how that compelled her to write these essays about survival, and hope.  Speaking from many global locations and from a wide range of historical and cultural perspectives, from antiquity to the present, Badkhen’s essays draw together amazingly imaginative connections across peoples, and ways of seeing. Ultimately, we are shown how to both recognize violence, and hope as well. Anna favors us by reading select passages from this marvelous, and necessary, book. Anna Badkhen’s new essay collection, To See Beyond, is out from Bellevue Literary Press in April 2026. She is the author of seven other published books, most recently Bright Unbearable Reality, which was a finalist for the 2026 Tiziano Terzani International Literary Prize and was longlisted for the 2022 National Book Award and for the 2023 Jan Michalski Prize for Literature.  Badkhen’s awards include the Guggenheim Fellowship, the Barry Lopez Visiting Writer in Ethics and Community Fellowship, and the Joel R. Seldin Award from Psychologists for Social Responsibility for writing about civilians in war zones. A former war correspondent, Badkhen grew up in the Soviet Union and is a US citizen. She is an Artist-in-Residence at the University of Pennsylvania.

    45 min
  6. B******t and Infinity: Why AI Cannot Predict Anything: A Conversation with Carissa Véliz

    Apr 23

    B******t and Infinity: Why AI Cannot Predict Anything: A Conversation with Carissa Véliz

    Today I have the immense pleasure of talking with Carissa Véliz, an associate professor at the University of Oxford, about her new book, Prophecy: Prediction, Power, and the Fight for the Future—from Ancient Oracles to AI.  Linking this work to her previous book, Privacy is Power: Why and How You Should Take Back Control of Your Data, Véliz writes: “ surveillance and prediction are digital technology’s original sins.” In our wide-ranging discussion, we talk about how both massive and intrusive invasions of privacy at all levels of society and false claims to be able to predict the future erode democracy, are corrosive to ethics, and undermine people’s ability to think for themselves.  Instead, we are conditioned to trust an unregulated band of “effective altruists” who claim to know better than we what kinds of lives we should prefer and the choices we should make.  Véliz argues instead that we should embrace the uncertain to build resilience, to prepare for contingency but not be determined by what we cannot see, and to foster curiosity and imagination. Carissa Véliz is an Associate Professor in Philosophy at the Institute for Ethics in AI, and a Fellow at Hertford College at the University of Oxford. She is the recipient of the 2021 Herbert A. Simon Award for Outstanding Research in Computing and Philosophy. She is a member of UNESCO’s Women 4 Ethical AI. She advises companies and policymakers around the world on privacy and the ethics of AI. She is a board member of the Proton Foundation, along with Sir Tim Berners-Lee and Proton’s CEO Andy Yen. She is the author of the highly-acclaimed Privacy Is Power (an Economist book of the year, 2020) and the editor of the Oxford Handbook of Digital Ethics. Her new book Prophecy was described as “The most important book you will read for years” by Roger McNamee, the tech investor and best selling author.

    54 min
  7. The Effects of the War on the Iranian People: A Conversation with Fatemeh Jamalpour and  and Nilo Tabrizy

    Apr 19

    The Effects of the War on the Iranian People: A Conversation with Fatemeh Jamalpour and and Nilo Tabrizy

    Today I am deeply honored to welcome back Iranian journalists Fatemeh Jamalpour and Nilo Tabrizy. Before, they talked about their book, For the Sun After Long Nights: the Story of Iran’s Women-led Uprising, today they tell us of conditions in Iran, which since January has suffered the government’s massacre of tens of thousands of protesters and the onslaught of the US/Israel war on Iran. Instead of concentrating on how the war is going and its effects on the global economy, as most media sources do, we focus entirely on the Iranian people, and talk about the effects of the bombing on daily life, the attacks on infrastructure, and the shutting down of the Internet. We look at the impact of these many forms of violence on civil society, and talk about the differentials of class, ethnicity, and gender. We end by having Fatemeh and Nilo talk about how covering Iran now is affecting their lives as journalists, and as Iranians. Fatemeh Jamalpour is a feminist journalist banned from working in Iran by the Ministry of Intelligence. Jamalpour has worked as a freelance reporter for outlets such as The Sunday Times, The Paris Review and the Los Angeles Times, and has also held positions at BBC World News in London and Shargh newspaper in Tehran. She has two master's degrees in journalism and communication from Northwestern University and Allameh Tabatabaei University in Tehran and was a 2024-25 Knight-Wallace Fellow at the University of Michigan. Nilo Tabrizy is an investigative reporter at The Washington Post. She works for the Visual Forensics team, where she covers Iran using open-source methods. Previously, she was a video journalist at the New York Times, covering Iran, race and policing, abortion access, and more. She is an Emmy nominee and the 2022 winner of the Front Page Award for Online Investigative Reporting. Nilo received her MS in Journalism from Columbia University and her BA in Political Science and French from the University of British Columbia.

    54 min
5
out of 5
34 Ratings

About

Public activism on human rights, environmental and indigenous justice, and educational liberation, with an emphasis on politics, culture, and art.  Website:  https://speakingoutofplace.com/

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